[Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
Ok Grok, I get your message. You have an identity problem.. you dont know who you are. Hey, the fun of life is you can be anybody you want ..or nobody. We got drunks in the Dime Box saloon like that. but who cares... as long as they pay their bar tab. Richard You're just making an unwarranted assumption, komrad. ; - -- grok. Hey Grok, You're sending mixed messages. Not sure if you're confessing or advocating. Richard
Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, R C Macaulay walha...@cvctx.com mounted the barricade and roared out: Ok Grok, I get your message. You have an identity problem.. you dont know who you are. Hey, the fun of life is you can be anybody you want ..or nobody. We got drunks in the Dime Box saloon like that. but who cares... as long as they pay their bar tab. Richard Sure, whatever. Keep telling yourself that. How´s your stock portfolio doing these days, BTW? Your 401K..? Good for you. And good thing too that Reality does whatever it wants -- regardless of what some people think. - -- grok. - -- ** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! * BOYCOTT BOURGEOIS * DOWNLOAD THESE ALTERNATIVE MEDIA * *MASS-MEDIA * FEATURE PRESENTATIONS: * Critical endorsement only Most sites need donations * http://takingaim.info *BIOWARFARE: CREATING THE NEXT PANDEMIC* * * http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim050315.mp3 I 10.3MB * * http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim050322.mp3 II 6.9MB * * http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim050329.mp3 III 6.8MB * * http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim050405.mp3 IV 7.0MB * * http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim050419.mp3 V 6.9MB * * http://radio4houston.org/takingaim/takingaim050426.mp3 VI 7.0MB * ** JOIN THE COMPLETE GOODS SERVICES BOYCOTT OF ISRAEL ** GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJmtTYXo3EtEYbt3ERAqAkAKCHEKkTLWnicoIOPsAKLUna5VbyhgCfXBtX PWiJuUh4shrhdHuOjzaTpTg= =R3f3 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
hey grok, You may not know who you are.. I didn't say I didn't know who you are.. you're easy.. just look at your advertizing below your posts. I must have met you a thousand times in my life. you had a different face, a differenr name, sometimes you were a male, sometimes female... BUT it was you. Richard Ok Grok, I get your message. You have an identity problem.. you dont know who you are. Hey, the fun of life is you can be anybody you want ..or nobody. We got drunks in the Dime Box saloon like that. but who cares... as long as they pay their bar tab. Richard Sure, whatever. Keep telling yourself that. - -- grok.
Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, R C Macaulay walha...@cvctx.com mounted the barricade and roared out: hey grok, You may not know who you are.. I didn't say I didn't know who you are.. you're easy.. just look at your advertizing below your posts. I must have met you a thousand times in my life. you had a different face, a differenr name, sometimes you were a male, sometimes female... BUT it was you. Richard Why, I could say exactly the same thing about you... Aren't you the ditto-head who was ranting a few messages back? Stick to the energy, OK? - -- grok. - -- ** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *BOYCOTT BOURGEOIS* Get your news analysis * * MASS-MEDIA:* from the Best on the Web * Critical endorsement only Most sites need donations * http://www.lrna.org/3-ptr/ptr.htmlPeople's Tribune Radio * * http://www.canwestwatch.orgCanWest Watch * * http://www.colombiaweek.orgColombia Week * * http://www.madcowprod.comMadCow Morning News * * http://www.wikipedia.org Wikipedia * * http://www.sourcewatch.org SourceWatch (formerly Disinfopedia) * * http://www.nsarchive.org National Security Archive * ** Where the barricades end -- real democracy begins * GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJmv9vXo3EtEYbt3ERAnDaAJ46ITqwjbTkVTegFZX61IzvUDUrCQCfcjrG 9T1sveVnN9cOADZ8OAD4Cr8= =WKAR -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I sure have been reading a lot about ole Darwin lately. Seems he's got a handle on how things got started... Does anybody know if he's still hanging around wiith his drinking buddies back in London.. maybe they could offer some evolutionary clues on economics, cuz we sure need to know more about money and jobs than we do about how a dinasour turned into a bird while nobody was looking with a cell phone camera. Richard Karl Marx wanted to dedicate Capital (1867. i.e. Das Kapital) to Darwin, but Darwin wouldn't have any of that. ;P - -- grok the communist. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM FIGHTBACK! *** * In advance of the Revolution: * Get facts get organized * * Fight the Man! * thru these sites movements * * http://iraqforsale.org IRAQ FOR SALE: The War Profiteers * * http://www.abu-jamal-news.com Journalists for Mumia * * http://www.economichitman.com Confessions of an Economic Hit Man * * http://www.muslimedia.com Muslimedia International * * http://lawanddisorder.org Law and Disorder Radio * NEW-WORLD-ORDER-SPEAK: Law Order == Police State GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJmVsWXo3EtEYbt3ERAiQ+AJwIa/dqbW+zT+3R+oW4XojFZKMGFgCdFLSq Lk08LVgUmRehz37A10YGNiU= =ysub -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
Hey Grok, You're sending mixed messages. Not sure if you're confessing or advocating. Richard - Original Message - From: grok g...@resist.ca To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 6:24 AM Subject: Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I sure have been reading a lot about ole Darwin lately. Seems he's got a handle on how things got started... Does anybody know if he's still hanging around wiith his drinking buddies back in London.. maybe they could offer some evolutionary clues on economics, cuz we sure need to know more about money and jobs than we do about how a dinasour turned into a bird while nobody was looking with a cell phone camera. Richard Karl Marx wanted to dedicate Capital (1867. i.e. Das Kapital) to Darwin, but Darwin wouldn't have any of that. ;P - -- grok the communist.
Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, R C Macaulay walha...@cvctx.com mounted the barricade and roared out: Hey Grok, You're sending mixed messages. Not sure if you're confessing or advocating. Richard You're just making an unwarranted assumption, komrad. ; - -- grok. - -- *** SOCIALISM OR BARBARISM ? *** * Capitalism wraps itself in flags of convenience * Critical * * The latest one is religious obscurantism * Support only * STEM THE ASSAULT ON MATERIALIST SCIENCE * http://richarddawkins.net/foundation Richard Dawkins Foundation * * http://www.talkorigins.org Talk.Origins *** for Reason Science * * http://www.darwin.ws Darwin World Site A Child's Primer of * * http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/day240805.html Intelligent Design* * http://humanisteducation.com Continuum of Humanist Education * * http://www.secularstudents.org Secular Student Alliance * * http://www.darwinday.org Darwin Day Celebration * * HUMAN RIGHTS IMPERIALISM: NEW FACE OF OLD EXPLOITATION * GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJmmB+Xo3EtEYbt3ERAj9XAJ9S0Vn7Xd+51G7wajnBn7GbfoTHhACfe8nB +ltrcCpdnjcA+hBnBIhKqck= =kAQg -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
Jack Smith has mentioned Kondratieff Waves/ and economic long cycles before. These are generally 55+ years in duration. Kuznets, another esteemed economist of an earlier age, had the economic cycles shorter. Hopefully neither cycle is even close to a natural law but more like an amusing anecdote. Is there now in 2009 a better planning model for this long cycle and one which transcends the blips, and on which BO is basing his moves? Can the Admin effectively overcome, or short-circuit, the natural down cycle with pro-active legislation and spending- even if they get all the numbers right ? Obama's advisors, including the creme-de-la-creme obviously think we can tempt fate and come out ahead. Here is an older article that looks now to be prescient: http://www.safehaven.com/article-3452.htm Anyway - the Great Depression started with the stock market crash on October 29, 1929, AKA Black Tuesday. Adding 55 to 1929 gives 1984 and it is one of the reasons for the hysteria about that year as epitomized in Nineteen Eighty-Four the dystopian novel by George Orwell. The K-cycle was way off then as far as planning goes. That novel was published in 1949. Subtracting 55 from 2008 takes us back to 1953, the year Truman announced we had developed the H-bomb... meaning absolutely nothing g except that the long cycles are not particularly exact for anything like planning purposes, so why even give them lip-service? Except maybe to say that we are long overdue The World economy is caught in several deflationary feedback loops now due solely to lower demand. These dynamics reinforce each other, making the dollar/euro seem stronger than either of them should be - but adding more cash will change things quickly - and could increase demand prematurely. Balance must be maintained, possibly with dreaded price controls. The down cycle should last at least a decade, that is: if the past were a true indicator - so what happens if we can short-ciruit the effects and pull-out of the down cycle in a couple of years? Has the model changed for good? The big worry for me is will a Newer New Deal necessarily be inflationary? It wasn’t inflationary following great depression #1, but some of that was due to the War - which actually should have made it worse. It didn't. Why would spending (via printing money) be more inflationary now, with a War almost behind us, and if so, why would thinkgs be different if we merely cut a decade out of the normal cycle by clever use of the money supply ? In a word: China. A billion plus consummers can fire up demand for any commodity rather quickly. Time will tell. Jones
Re: [Vo]:OT: Economic long cycles
Howdy Jones, Our companies tries to practice a rule of thumb that states things change every seven years. Since it takes 3 1/2 years to plan a business move, it requires that planning for the next business move begin 3 1/2 years into the operation so that as 7 years operation is complete we are ready to start the next plan. Sounds elementary.. until business experience teaches that either one leads change OR change drags one kicking and screaming into the next change. Rudders only work on boats. There is a strange edict recorded way back in the Bible regarding 7 years.. seems the land was meant to rest every 7 years.. and an even stranger edict at the end of every 49 years.. the nation was to declare a year of Jubilee and all debts were cancelled and all land returned to the respective tribal family. I kinda waited to see if Israel would give it a try 1948+ 49= 1997 with the Jubilee year start in 1998.. well so much for thinking out loud. Sometimes when I watch a really smart fellow like the new sec of treasury stand up and admit he don't have a clue what to do.. well.. I think back again about that 7 year and 49 year thing and wonder if there may be some truth to it. Used to be the old time scribes that recorded laws and history were honor bound to tell the truth. Maybe they knew something so important they left a clue for history. I sure have been reading a lot about ole Darwin lately. Seems he's got a handle on how things got started... Does anybody know if he's still hanging around wiith his drinking buddies back in London.. maybe they could offer some evolutionary clues on economics, cuz we sure need to know more about money and jobs than we do about how a dinasour turned into a bird while nobody was looking with a cell phone camera. Richard Jones wrote, Jack Smith has mentioned Kondratieff Waves/ and economic long cycles before. These are generally 55+ years in duration. Kuznets, another esteemed economist of an earlier age, had the economic cycles shorter. Hopefully neither cycle is even close to a natural law but more like an amusing anecdote. Is there now in 2009 a better planning model for this long cycle and one which transcends the blips, and on which BO is basing his moves? Can the Admin effectively overcome, or short-circuit, the natural down cycle with pro-active legislation and spending- even if they get all the numbers right ?
