Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[William Beaty]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015, Esa Ruoho wrote:

> What is different about an Orbo power cell, and again, we showed a 
> brief example of building, hand-building a very simple cell is that, 
> first of all, it is not an electrochemical device, so there is no ion 
> transfer, there's no electrolyte and so forth.


If the plates charge up repeatedly, that's DC output.  There must be a 
charge-pump effect involved, and a complete conductive path.  The electret 
wax is a resistor, just one with a large value, and it completes the 
circuit through the stack of dissimilar metals, as with any battery or 
capacitor.


Then the question is, is the charge-pump created from chemical breakdown 
of the dissimilar metals, or from something anomalous?  Easy test: treat 
it as a battery, and see how long it takes to run down.  Best would be to 
use very, very thin metal in the construction, so that any "battery 
capacity" would necessarily be quite short.  That would quickly expose the 
anomalous energy output, because the device would keep going way past 
chemistry, way past nuclear.  Or to perpetrate a hoax, use very thick 
metal on purpose, so we mix "anomaly" and "battery" to avoid the 
possibility of genuine testing.



If it's inexpensive piezo energy-harvesting without ceramic and diode, 
then WAY COOL!  Test it by isolating it vibration-free, see if it stops 
working after xx months.  That measures the primary-battery component of 
the total energy output.



> So, in order to demonstrate the fundamental difference between an Orbo 
> power cell and the traditional battery, what we're going to do is 
> short it out, and we're going to leave it shorted out approximately

> 30 minutes, and then demonstrate that the voltage in open-circuit
> immediately bounces back to this 2.5 odd volts.


That's just wrong.

They have to short it out for a time proportional to the internal 
resistance.  If they have, say, 100,000x higher resistance than a normal 
battery, then for an equivalent demo, they'd have to short it out for 
100,000X longer.


With large internal resistance, shorting the battery using this internal 
resistance as a load.  What if the resistance is 10K ohm?  Is it an 
effective test to place a ?10K? resistor across a battery for a half hour? 
Nope, 100K hours would be more like it.



(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[William Beaty]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015, esa ruoho wrote:

Bill, is that based on what you read on the transcripts? They do state 
that it seems like a galvanic cell but doesn't work like it.


Yes, just the transcripts.   Initially I assumed that it was "Orbo," 
meaning a rotary or vibrating device with coils.


The main signature of a scam would be a large battery, but with very high 
series resistance, so requiring months to measure the amp-hours or to 
intentionally exhaust the cell.


So, no prompt simple method to prove it's just a battery.   Seems perfect 
setup for scammers.


As with CF experiments, we could estimate the total battery-joules based 
on metal mass, plus any joules stored by dielectric absorption, then see 
if the device puts out far, far larger net energy.


With used car dealers, sellers of secret maps to gold mines and of FE/OU 
devices, I assume that they're lying, then look for any evidence of 
honesty.






(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[William Beaty]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015, esa ruoho wrote:

Bill, here's another claim from Shaun McCarthy:

A: You will never need to charge an ophone


So, just wait to see if it's real.  If Steorn has a sudden reversal, and 
can finally show genuine stuff, then yay, at last!  But if they're 
scammers, then ophone has an obvious function: vaporware, and only there 
to make the orbo box look more legit, so more people lose $1300.


When in doubt, remember the 'first law' of FE/OU hobby, which is never 
reach for your wallet no matter what!  :)


...unless it's to fund the wbeaty cosmic energy extractor(tm)!!




(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[William Beaty]

On Wed, 9 Dec 2015, Bob Higgins wrote:


This motor is certainly not a perpetual motion machine, but it is an
electrostatic motor.  It bears a striking resemblance to a Wimshurst
generator, which could be used as a motor, and also to Jefimenko's
electrostatic motors.  Electrostatic motors are real - the original
demonstration may not have been faked.  The Earth's electric field varies
from 500V/m to >50kV/m and this can be harvested to do work as Jefimenko
showed with his motors (I have an electronic copy of his book somewhere).


Yeah, Jefimenko couldn't get them to turn using balloon-wire antennas, 
until they tried it from the top of a parking garage.   Nearby buildings 
had been acting as a shield, and their balloon-wire wasn't high enough. 
Indoors, the shielding effect is 100%.


Weird: the orbo box (maybe) is based on the same electret-like effect that 
(maybe) is powering the black disk electrostatic motor.   Maybe!   Both 
may rely on insulators actually being large resistors.





Also, here's a cool one below, dunno if it's been discussed:

  Waller motor, electrostatic PM hoax?
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YreCJDvIX2Q




(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[Esa J. Ruoho]

Here is a new one

https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/videos/10153398806872672/

"some additional details of the Orbo power cell", Transcribed by Esa Juhani 
Ruoho / esaru...@icloud.com / http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/ 

OK so a lot of people are asking what's the difference between an Orbo power 
cell and traditional batteries. Traditional batteries come in two basic forms, 
what are known as primary batteries, or disposable batteries, which, once you 
have drained the energy, they're disposable, you throw them away - you should 
recycle them. Secondary batteries are the types of batteries that you would see 
in things like your phone or in power-cubes and so forth. Typically Lithium-Ion 
or Lithium-Polymer technology, and the difference is once you've drained the 
energy in them, you can actually re-charge them and replenish the energy. 

What is common between primary and secondary batteries is that the energy 
stored in them - and they are energy storage devices - is stored as a 
electro-chemical process. So, the output of these types of batteries in terms 
of voltage is ultimately defined by the inherent chemistry that it's using.

What is different about an Orbo power cell, and again, we showed a brief 
example of building, hand-building a very simple cell is that, first of all, it 
is not an electrochemical device, so there is no ion transfer, there's no 
electrolyte and so forth. It is based on the electromagnetic field. And the 
second and probably the most difficult to accept aspect of it is that it is an 
energy-generating device rather than an energy-storage device.

What we showed in the clip building the tiny, hand-building the tiny little 
cell, was a cell that had a voltage, an open-circuit voltage of VOC .3 .4 of a 
volt. One of the things that we said as we were building that is that what 
makes it peculiar is that as you increase the surface area, the VOC also 
increases.

So, what we have here is a hand-built version of the same, which is longer and 
wound up a bit like a capacitor, and what we'll demonstrate is that the VOC of 
this which is a simply, longer strips of the same materials, is at about 2.5 
volts, I think in this case, it's about 2.5, 2.6 volts. That would be an 
unexpected result electrochemically, as in, you typically see voltages of 3,7 
volts in Lithium-Ion batteries, 1.2 and so forth, and again, if we unwound this 
and cut this in half we would find that the voltage itself reduced.

Probably the most interesting aspect to demonstrate that the Orbo power cell is 
not a traditional battery is that if you short out a traditional battery for an 
extended period of time, ultimately you drain all or virtually all of the 
electrochemical energy that's stored in it. And so, if you short it out and 
leave it for an extended period of time, remove the short and then measure it, 
you'll find that the voltage is either significantly below it's inherent 
voltage, or if it's left long enough, it will be series. So, in order to 
demonstrate the fundamental difference between an Orbo power cell and the 
traditional battery, what we're going to do is short it out, and we're going to 
leave it shorted out approximately 30 minutes, and then demonstrate that the 
voltage in open-circuit immediately bounces back to this 2.5 odd volts.

So, all that I'm doing here is shorting the positive and negative and as you 
can see on the scope, as expected, we go to zero volts or very close to zero 
volts, about a few milli-volts which is simply the offset of the oscilloscope 
of itself, and we'll leave this running for 30 minutes.

(screen says: (Recorded over 36 minutes))

Ok, so we've had this Orbo power cell shorted out now for I think about 30 
minutes. So, what I'm going to do is remove the short, simply pull the wires 
apart, and what you'll notice is that we're immediately back to our 2.5 volt 
voltage level. What you would expect if this was an energy storage device such 
as a capacitor, is obviously we would've drained the capacitor at this stage, 
it's been 30 minutes in short circuit - or - if it was a traditional 
electrochemical cell, we would see at least some drop-off in voltage, but 
probably after 30 minutes, a very significant drop-off of voltage.

What we're really demonstrating here is that unlike a traditional battery, what 
Orbo really is is an energy generation technology. In terms of what it looks 
like in it's production format, is that we aim for each cell to produce 2 and a 
half volts, and our standard Orbo power-cell is a 5 volt device, so it is two 
of these, professionally manufactured and encapsulated, that produce 5 volts, 
so it's two in series, so again, just to demonstrate that, that if I take the 
product-sized version of this, what you can see is a - just over a five-volt 
output. Again, 5 volt is chosen because our primary target market for this is 
mobile consumer electronics.

In terms of how this type of Orbo power cell is put into a product, what 

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[Jed Rothwell]

William Beaty  wrote:


> This motor is certainly not a perpetual motion machine, but it is an
>> electrostatic motor.  . . .
>
>

>
> Yeah, Jefimenko couldn't get them to turn using balloon-wire antennas,
> until they tried it from the top of a parking garage.   Nearby buildings
> had been acting as a shield, and their balloon-wire wasn't high enough.
> Indoors, the shielding effect is 100%.
>

That sounds like harvesting energy from radio and TV towers. Hasn't that
been demonstrated? People living next door to towers see effects such as
radiators acting as radios.

You can also harvest energy from high voltage overhead power lines. I
recall reading about the power companies suing people for doing this. That
seems unfair to me. The energy is all going to waste anyway.

Experts say that RF has no effect on health. I hope that is true, but I
wonder about long term exposure, especially for someone living next door to
a radio tower.

Wifi units produce many orders of magnitude less power than radio or cell
phones, yet I still have some concerns about them. The one in my house used
to be installed right where my wife works for several hours a day. I moved
it, partly for that reason. Also to improve reception in the rest of the
house. (It still doesn't work well in some rooms. I wish I could fix that.)

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[esa ruoho]

Yep Jed.
a GSM / EDGE non-smart-phone
Orboost technology licensed to Wicked E-Juices for creation of never-charge  
E-Cig
and a gamecontroller for regular came-consoles
and the OCube for charging smartphones 2-3 times a day or 1 tablet per day.

and.. the one they don't talk about, which is the HephaHeat  water-boiler 
device.

There's a press-release, Jed, for the Orboost Wicked E-Juice E-Cig, 
http://www.wickedejuice.com/content/41-liquid-solutions-prepares-to-bring-the-orbo-never-die-battery-to-market

Liquid Solutions Prepares to bring the Orbo 'never die' battery to market
27 October 2015

Watch the fascinating and always entertaining visionaries from Irish energy 
company Steorn talking about the first commercial implementation of their never 
die energy technology. The founder of Wicked, Killian McGrath, also makes an 
appearance talking about the revolutionary use of these never die batteries 
being developed for e cigarettes.  These new products will be coming on stream 
in the next six months - watch this space. 

Liquid Solutions Prepares to bring the Orbo 'never die' battery to market
Liquid Solutions, the only Irish producer of certified e juice for e 
cigarettes, today announces it has licensed the revolutionary Orbo battery 
technology from Steorn to deliver an e cigarette that never needs charging.

Waterford based Liquid Solutions, the makers of Wicked e-juice, has been 
working with Steorn for the past three years to bring the never-die Orbo 
battery to market. This revolutionary move will allow consumers of e cigarettes 
never to charge the batteries in their e cigarettes again. In three short 
years, Liquid Solutions has created a battery small enough to fit into an e 
cigarette and still retain the self charging properties of Orbo.

Killian McGrath, founder of Liquid Solutions, recognized the impact of Orbo 
when first presented with the technology. The never die battery is the holy 
grail of all mobile device manufacturers. Increasingly people travel with 
energy banks, in-car chargers and charging points in public places.  To replace 
the humble battery with an ever-charged Orbo battery is to revolutionize the 
mobile populace.  Now the vaping community need never worry about charging 
their Wicked e cigarettes. We have a market winner.’

Dublin based Steorn headed up by Shaun McCarthy has enjoyed a roller coaster 
ride since its inception fifteen years ago. Their discovery of a constant 
energy source has attracted worldwide interest and criticism. Tonight (28 
October 2015, 7pm GMT) the company is beginning a series of webinars 
introducing their Orbo never die battery. As part of that process, the 
partnership with Liquid Solutions will be broadcast.

In terms of timing, Liquid Solutions intends having its first Orbo vaping 
products available to the Irish marketplace within the next six months. The 
never die batteries will be available to purchase from www.Wickedejuice.com

.

Ends

For more information, please visit www.Wickedejuice.com

Or contact me...@wickedejuice.com


---
| Esa Ruoho | +358403703659 | http://fi.linkedin.com/in/esaruoho 
 |
| http://lackluster.bandcamp.com  | 
http://lackluster.org  | http://esaruoho.tumblr.com 
 |
| http://twitter.com/esaruoho  | 
http://facebook.com/LacklusterOfficial  
|

> On 09 Dec 2015, at 16:38, Jed Rothwell  wrote:
> 
> William Beaty > wrote:
>  
> Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!
> 
>  
> http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html
>  
> 
> 
> Also, an e-cigarette?!?
> 
> - Jed
> 

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[Jed Rothwell]

William Beaty  wrote:


> Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!
>
>
> http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html


Also, an e-cigarette?!?

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[Bob Higgins]

This motor is certainly not a perpetual motion machine, but it is an
electrostatic motor.  It bears a striking resemblance to a Wimshurst
generator, which could be used as a motor, and also to Jefimenko's
electrostatic motors.  Electrostatic motors are real - the original
demonstration may not have been faked.  The Earth's electric field varies
from 500V/m to >50kV/m and this can be harvested to do work as Jefimenko
showed with his motors (I have an electronic copy of his book somewhere).

So, this device does have vertical extent and will have an environmental
electrostatic field across it.  If made with sufficiently low rolling
resistance, this field may be enough to power the motor.

Bob Higgins

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 11:06 PM, William Beaty  wrote:

>
> Also, here's a cool one below, dunno if it's been discussed:
>
>   Waller motor, electrostatic PM hoax?
>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YreCJDvIX2Q
>
> It might genuinely operate as shown, if the plastic disk had first been
> "charged" by rubbing with fur.  If true, sell it as a toy!
>
> Or, if fur-rubbing can't provide sufficient energy to spin the wheel,
> instead use dielectric absorption, "capacitor soakage" with a 20KVDC supply
> and wetted metal electrodes (or conductive rubber, for intimate surface
> contact with surfaces of the plastic disk.)  Deeply charge up the plastic
> disk, then add the foil rectangles later.  The "de-sorption" of charge from
> the plastic should re-charge the foil slowly, and run the motor perhaps for
> many minutes, perhaps hours.
>
> The wood in the video would serve as a conductor, so those who build a
> plastic model would fail.   Replications:
>
>  w/6KV supplyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S072ScKjx8s
>
>  Fake, w/#40ga connecting wires
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfSydbKEBpQ
>
>  w/VDG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiqEtigpJaI
>
> Available again are high-volt negative-ionizer blocks, $4 power supplies,
> 6K to 8K VDC, on eBay,   search eBay: anion 12v
>
> I found that these work fine if powered by two 9V batt connected as 18V,
> and only draw excess current at input of 20V and above.  Crank the supply
> down to zero, and the KV output decreases roughly in proportion.  Build a
> many-KV variable bench supply for electrostatics.  Output below 10uA.   I
> haven't tried buying ten for series connection, and rigging up a 100KV
> supply powered by independent floating batteries.
>
>>
>>>  ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) 
>>> William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
>>> beaty, chem washington edu  Research Engineer
>>> billb, amasci com   UW Chem Dept,  Bagley Hall RM74
>>> x3-6195 Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
>>>
>>

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[Esa Ruoho]

Another Steorn video pops up on Facebook, here's another transcript.



https://www.facebook.com/thebatteryisdead/videos/10153398806872672/


"some additional details of the Orbo power cell", Transcribed by Esa Juhani
Ruoho / esaru...@icloud.com / http://lackluster.bandcamp.com/


OK so a lot of people are asking what's the difference between an Orbo
power cell and traditional batteries. Traditional batteries come in two
basic forms, what are known as primary batteries, or disposable batteries,
which, once you have drained the energy, they're disposable, you throw them
away - you should recycle them. Secondary batteries are the types of
batteries that you would see in things like your phone or in power-cubes
and so forth. Typically Lithium-Ion or Lithium-Polymer technology, and the
difference is once you've drained the energy in them, you can actually
re-charge them and replenish the energy.


What is common between primary and secondary batteries is that the energy
stored in them and they are empty storage devices - is stored as a
electro-chemical process. So, the output of these types of batteries in
terms of voltage is ultimately defined the inherent chemistry that it's
using.


What is different about an Orbo power cell, and again, we showed a brief
example of building, hand-building a very simple cell is that, first of
all, it is not an electrochemical device, so there is no ion transfer,
there's no electrolyte and so forth. It is based on the electromagnetic
field. And the second and probably the most difficult to accept aspect of
it is that it is an energy-generating device rather than an energy-storage
device.


What we showed in the clip building the tiny, hand-building the tiny little
cell, was a cell that had a voltage, an open-circuit voltage of VOC .3 .4
of a volt. One of the things that we said as we were building that is that
what makes it peculiar is that as you increase the surface area, the VOC
also increases.


So, what we have here is a hand-built version of the same, which is longer
and wound up a bit like a capacitor, and what we'll demonstrate is that the
VOC of this which is a simply, longer strips of the same materials, is at
about 2.5 volts, I think in this case, it's about 2.5, 2.6 volts. That
would be an unexpected result electrochemically, as in, you typically see
voltages of 3,7 volts in Lithium-Ion batteries, 1.2 and so forth, and
again, if we unwound this and cut this in half we would find that the
voltage itself reduced.


Probably the most interesting aspect to demonstrate that the Orbo power
cell is not a traditional battery is that if you short out a traditional
battery for an extended period of time, ultimately you drain all or
virtually all of the electrochemical energy that's stored in it. And so, if
you short it out and leave it for an extended period of time, remove the
short and then measure it, you'll find that the voltage is either
significantly below it's inherent voltage, or if it's left long enough, it
will be series. So, in order to demonstrate the fundamental difference
between an Orbo power cell and the traditional battery, what we're going to
do is short it out, and we're going to leave it shorted out approximately
30 minutes, and then demonstrate that the voltage in open-circuit
immediately bounces back to this 2.5 odd volts.


So, all that I'm doing here is shorting the positive and negative and as
you can see on the scope, as expected, we go to zero volts or very close to
zero volts, about a few milli-volts which is simply the offset of the
oscilloscope of itself, and we'll leave this running for 30 minutes.


(screen says: (Recorded over 36 minutes))


Ok, so we've had this Orbo power cell shorted out now for I think about 30
minutes. So, what I'm going to do is remove the short, simply pull the
wires apart, and what you'll notice is that we're immediately back to our
2.5 volt voltage level. What you would expect if this was an energy storage
device such as a capacitor, is obviously we would've drained the capacitor
at this stage, it's been 30 minutes in short circuit - or - if it was a
traditional electrochemical cell, we would see at least some drop-off in
voltage, but probably after 30 minutes, a very significant drop-off of
voltage.


What we're really demonstrating here is that unlike a traditional battery,
what Orbo really is is an energy generation technology. In terms of what it
looks like in it's production format, is that we aim for each cell to
produce 2 and a half volts, and our standard Orbo power-cell is a 5 volt
device, so it is two of these, professionally manufactured and
encapsulated, that produce 5 volts, so it's two in series, so again, just
to demonstrate that, that if I take the product-sized version of this, what
you can see is a - just over a five-volt output. Again, 5 volt is chosen
because our primary target market for this is mobile consumer electronics.

[Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[William Beaty]

Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!

 
http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html
 http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html
 http://steornnews.com/
 https://www.facebook.com/Orbo-217496297671/timeline/







 ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) 
William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
beaty, chem washington edu  Research Engineer
billb, amasci com   UW Chem Dept,  Bagley Hall RM74
x3-6195 Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[William Beaty]

On Tue, 8 Dec 2015, Terry Blanton wrote:

Sorry, Bill, Shaun (Sean) McCarthy just announce that they won't be
available until late January.


DON'T BUY!   Seriously.

Steorn appears to be making Volta's mistake.  (Or, it's a devious hoax 
based on Volta's mistake.)


Alessandro Volta believed that voltaic-pile batteries were free-energy 
devices, and would last forever.  He called it "electrification by 
contact."  (As opposed to his detractors' chemistry-driven theories.)


The "dry piles" of DuLuc and Zamboni appeared to support this, since they 
provide microwatts for centuries.  WHen using high-resistance electrolyte 
and such a low power-drain, it's nearly impossible to measure the amp-hour 
rating of Dry Piles by running down the battery to zero.  Dry Piles use 
paper as a solid electrolyte.


The mistake is in believing that insulators are insulating.

No, insulators are actually just electrolytic conductors of high 
resistance.  If we use carnuba/beeswax "electret wax" to form a battery, 
it will only supply power until the dissimilar metals provided by the 
electrodes are exhausted.   (Well, in theory only one plate will be 
destroyed during normal batt operation.)


So, wanna make a "Volta hoax?"

Then use a large mass of metal (lots of fuel, high amp-hours,) and use 
high-resistance solid electrolyte which prevents anyone from rapidly 
extracting kilojoules and exhausting the battery within hours.


Then include a "no repairs" clause, so when their extremely expensive and 
perfectly conventional battery stops working, nobody can complain.


---

Also, here's a cool one below, dunno if it's been discussed:

  Waller motor, electrostatic PM hoax?
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YreCJDvIX2Q

It might genuinely operate as shown, if the plastic disk had first been 
"charged" by rubbing with fur.  If true, sell it as a toy!


Or, if fur-rubbing can't provide sufficient energy to spin the wheel, 
instead use dielectric absorption, "capacitor soakage" with a 20KVDC 
supply and wetted metal electrodes (or conductive rubber, for intimate 
surface contact with surfaces of the plastic disk.)  Deeply charge up the 
plastic disk, then add the foil rectangles later.  The "de-sorption" of 
charge from the plastic should re-charge the foil slowly, and run the 
motor perhaps for many minutes, perhaps hours.


The wood in the video would serve as a conductor, so those who build a 
plastic model would fail.   Replications:


 w/6KV supplyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S072ScKjx8s

 Fake, w/#40ga connecting wires https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfSydbKEBpQ

 w/VDG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiqEtigpJaI

Available again are high-volt negative-ionizer blocks, $4 power supplies, 
6K to 8K VDC, on eBay,   search eBay: anion 12v


I found that these work fine if powered by two 9V batt connected as 18V, 
and only draw excess current at input of 20V and above.  Crank the supply 
down to zero, and the KV output decreases roughly in proportion.  Build a 
many-KV variable bench supply for electrostatics.  Output below 10uA.   I 
haven't tried buying ten for series connection, and rigging up a 100KV 
supply powered by independent floating batteries.







On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 6:29 PM, William Beaty  wrote:


Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!


http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html
 http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html
 http://steornnews.com/
 https://www.facebook.com/Orbo-217496297671/timeline/







 ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) 
William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
beaty, chem washington edu  Research Engineer
billb, amasci com   UW Chem Dept,  Bagley Hall RM74
x3-6195 Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700





(( ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) )))
William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website
billb at amasci com http://amasci.com
EE/programmer/sci-exhibits   amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair
Seattle, WA  206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[Terry Blanton]

Sorry, Bill, Shaun (Sean) McCarthy just announce that they won't be
available until late January.

On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 6:29 PM, William Beaty  wrote:
>
> Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!
>
>
> http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html
>  http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html
>  http://steornnews.com/
>  https://www.facebook.com/Orbo-217496297671/timeline/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) 
> William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
> beaty, chem washington edu  Research Engineer
> billb, amasci com   UW Chem Dept,  Bagley Hall RM74
> x3-6195 Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
>

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[esa ruoho]

Bill, is that based on what you read on the transcripts? They do state that it 
seems like a galvanic cell but doesn't work like it.
Also, other claims seem to be:
1- the materials are piezoelectric / receptive to ambient energy
2- not RF / energy harvesting, their layered metal thingies work inside a 
faraday cage.

---
| Esa Ruoho | +358403703659 | http://fi.linkedin.com/in/esaruoho 
 |
| http://lackluster.bandcamp.com  | 
http://lackluster.org  | http://esaruoho.tumblr.com 
 |
| http://twitter.com/esaruoho  | 
http://facebook.com/LacklusterOfficial  
|

> On 09 Dec 2015, at 08:06, William Beaty  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2015, Terry Blanton wrote:
>> Sorry, Bill, Shaun (Sean) McCarthy just announce that they won't be
>> available until late January.
> 
> DON'T BUY!   Seriously.
> 
> Steorn appears to be making Volta's mistake.  (Or, it's a devious hoax based 
> on Volta's mistake.)
> 
> Alessandro Volta believed that voltaic-pile batteries were free-energy 
> devices, and would last forever.  He called it "electrification by contact."  
> (As opposed to his detractors' chemistry-driven theories.)
> 
> The "dry piles" of DuLuc and Zamboni appeared to support this, since they 
> provide microwatts for centuries.  WHen using high-resistance electrolyte and 
> such a low power-drain, it's nearly impossible to measure the amp-hour rating 
> of Dry Piles by running down the battery to zero.  Dry Piles use paper as a 
> solid electrolyte.
> 
> The mistake is in believing that insulators are insulating.
> 
> No, insulators are actually just electrolytic conductors of high resistance.  
> If we use carnuba/beeswax "electret wax" to form a battery, it will only 
> supply power until the dissimilar metals provided by the electrodes are 
> exhausted.   (Well, in theory only one plate will be destroyed during normal 
> batt operation.)
> 
> So, wanna make a "Volta hoax?"
> 
> Then use a large mass of metal (lots of fuel, high amp-hours,) and use 
> high-resistance solid electrolyte which prevents anyone from rapidly 
> extracting kilojoules and exhausting the battery within hours.
> 
> Then include a "no repairs" clause, so when their extremely expensive and 
> perfectly conventional battery stops working, nobody can complain.
> 
> ---
> 
> Also, here's a cool one below, dunno if it's been discussed:
> 
>  Waller motor, electrostatic PM hoax?
>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YreCJDvIX2Q 
> 
> 
> It might genuinely operate as shown, if the plastic disk had first been 
> "charged" by rubbing with fur.  If true, sell it as a toy!
> 
> Or, if fur-rubbing can't provide sufficient energy to spin the wheel, instead 
> use dielectric absorption, "capacitor soakage" with a 20KVDC supply and 
> wetted metal electrodes (or conductive rubber, for intimate surface contact 
> with surfaces of the plastic disk.)  Deeply charge up the plastic disk, then 
> add the foil rectangles later.  The "de-sorption" of charge from the plastic 
> should re-charge the foil slowly, and run the motor perhaps for many minutes, 
> perhaps hours.
> 
> The wood in the video would serve as a conductor, so those who build a 
> plastic model would fail.   Replications:
> 
> w/6KV supplyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S072ScKjx8s 
> 
> 
> Fake, w/#40ga connecting wires https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfSydbKEBpQ 
> 
> 
> w/VDG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiqEtigpJaI 
> 
> 
> Available again are high-volt negative-ionizer blocks, $4 power supplies, 6K 
> to 8K VDC, on eBay,   search eBay: anion 12v
> 
> I found that these work fine if powered by two 9V batt connected as 18V, and 
> only draw excess current at input of 20V and above.  Crank the supply down to 
> zero, and the KV output decreases roughly in proportion.  Build a many-KV 
> variable bench supply for electrostatics.  Output below 10uA.   I haven't 
> tried buying ten for series connection, and rigging up a 100KV supply powered 
> by independent floating batteries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 6:29 PM, William Beaty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html
>>> http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html
>>> http://steornnews.com/
>>> https://www.facebook.com/Orbo-217496297671/timeline/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) 
>>> William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
>>> beaty, chem washington edu  Research Engineer
>>> 

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[Esa J. Ruoho]

Http://freeenergy.news/steorn-webinar-ii-orbo-products-full-transcript/ 
Here is a transcript i wrote for webinar#2 of Steorn Orbo

And webinar#1 is at 
http://freeenergy.news/steorn/steorn-o-cube-webinar-full-transcript/ 

Sent from some iDevice. Written by Esa.

> On 09 Dec 2015, at 01:29, William Beaty  wrote:
> 
> 
> Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!
> 
> http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html
> http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html
> http://steornnews.com/
> https://www.facebook.com/Orbo-217496297671/timeline/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) 
> William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
> beaty, chem washington edu  Research Engineer
> billb, amasci com   UW Chem Dept,  Bagley Hall RM74
> x3-6195 Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700
> 

Re: [Vo]:Steorn Orbo cube phone-charger ~$1300

[esa ruoho]

Bill, here's another claim from Shaun McCarthy:

A: You will never need to charge an ophone
Q: Why? What’s the reason behind it?
A: Orbo is a completely new type of battery based on the electric field rather 
than traditional batteries that are based upon chemical release of energy.

---
| Esa Ruoho | +358403703659 | http://fi.linkedin.com/in/esaruoho 
 |
| http://lackluster.bandcamp.com  | 
http://lackluster.org  | http://esaruoho.tumblr.com 
 |
| http://twitter.com/esaruoho  | 
http://facebook.com/LacklusterOfficial  
|

> On 09 Dec 2015, at 08:06, William Beaty  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 8 Dec 2015, Terry Blanton wrote:
>> Sorry, Bill, Shaun (Sean) McCarthy just announce that they won't be
>> available until late January.
> 
> DON'T BUY!   Seriously.
> 
> Steorn appears to be making Volta's mistake.  (Or, it's a devious hoax based 
> on Volta's mistake.)
> 
> Alessandro Volta believed that voltaic-pile batteries were free-energy 
> devices, and would last forever.  He called it "electrification by contact."  
> (As opposed to his detractors' chemistry-driven theories.)
> 
> The "dry piles" of DuLuc and Zamboni appeared to support this, since they 
> provide microwatts for centuries.  WHen using high-resistance electrolyte and 
> such a low power-drain, it's nearly impossible to measure the amp-hour rating 
> of Dry Piles by running down the battery to zero.  Dry Piles use paper as a 
> solid electrolyte.
> 
> The mistake is in believing that insulators are insulating.
> 
> No, insulators are actually just electrolytic conductors of high resistance.  
> If we use carnuba/beeswax "electret wax" to form a battery, it will only 
> supply power until the dissimilar metals provided by the electrodes are 
> exhausted.   (Well, in theory only one plate will be destroyed during normal 
> batt operation.)
> 
> So, wanna make a "Volta hoax?"
> 
> Then use a large mass of metal (lots of fuel, high amp-hours,) and use 
> high-resistance solid electrolyte which prevents anyone from rapidly 
> extracting kilojoules and exhausting the battery within hours.
> 
> Then include a "no repairs" clause, so when their extremely expensive and 
> perfectly conventional battery stops working, nobody can complain.
> 
> ---
> 
> Also, here's a cool one below, dunno if it's been discussed:
> 
>  Waller motor, electrostatic PM hoax?
>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YreCJDvIX2Q 
> 
> 
> It might genuinely operate as shown, if the plastic disk had first been 
> "charged" by rubbing with fur.  If true, sell it as a toy!
> 
> Or, if fur-rubbing can't provide sufficient energy to spin the wheel, instead 
> use dielectric absorption, "capacitor soakage" with a 20KVDC supply and 
> wetted metal electrodes (or conductive rubber, for intimate surface contact 
> with surfaces of the plastic disk.)  Deeply charge up the plastic disk, then 
> add the foil rectangles later.  The "de-sorption" of charge from the plastic 
> should re-charge the foil slowly, and run the motor perhaps for many minutes, 
> perhaps hours.
> 
> The wood in the video would serve as a conductor, so those who build a 
> plastic model would fail.   Replications:
> 
> w/6KV supplyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S072ScKjx8s 
> 
> 
> Fake, w/#40ga connecting wires https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfSydbKEBpQ 
> 
> 
> w/VDG  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiqEtigpJaI 
> 
> 
> Available again are high-volt negative-ionizer blocks, $4 power supplies, 6K 
> to 8K VDC, on eBay,   search eBay: anion 12v
> 
> I found that these work fine if powered by two 9V batt connected as 18V, and 
> only draw excess current at input of 20V and above.  Crank the supply down to 
> zero, and the KV output decreases roughly in proportion.  Build a many-KV 
> variable bench supply for electrostatics.  Output below 10uA.   I haven't 
> tried buying ten for series connection, and rigging up a 100KV supply powered 
> by independent floating batteries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2015 at 6:29 PM, William Beaty  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Phone charger version.Heh, buy a bunch as xmas gifts!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2015/12/steorn_taking_orders_for_ocube_preorders.html
>>> http://boingboing.net/2015/12/08/free-energy-for-sale-steorn.html
>>> http://steornnews.com/
>>> https://www.facebook.com/Orbo-217496297671/timeline/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  ( (  (   ((O))   )  ) ) 
>>> William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/
>>> beaty, chem washington edu  Research Engineer
>>> billb, amasci com   UW Chem