RE: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
I think I solved the aluminum supply problem. Just feed your beer cans into a shredder at the top of the device, p*ss into it, and you get ... a self-powered drunk-driving machine !
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
More info: http://www.phillipscompany.4t.com/HYDROGEN.html The information below described a new catalyst, CC, that requires zero energy input once the reaction is started and heated to 180F. After that, hydrogen is produced for as long as fuel (water and aluminum) are provided. Zero energy input ? wow, who is going to need lenr once we all have hydrogen on demand ?
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
More info: http://www.phillipscompany.4t.com/HYDROGEN.html The information below described a new catalyst, CC, that requires zero energy input once the reaction is started and heated to 180F. After that, hydrogen is produced for as long as fuel (water and aluminum) are provided. Zero energy input ? wow, who is going to need lenr once we all have hydrogen on demand ? Not so fast. Obviously, this is an intriguing claim, and I hope it is checked out soon. In the meantime I would remain cautiously skeptical until additional evidence is accumulated. All too often the devil is eventually found in the details. Personal thoughts: Difficulty in extracting hydrogen cheaply, cleanly, and abundantly has always made it difficult to promote hydrogen as *the* ubiquitous clean and abundant energy source for the entire planet. While such claims might have the potential to worry many CF proponents, the fact that the alleged technology seems to extract hydrogen from H2O without the need for expending additional energy, once the reaction begins, this would seem to indicate the discovery of another cold fusion-like / zero-point-energy technology. And that is good news for the alternative energy front. By definition, the technology would ...seem... to violate one of the sacred laws of thermodynamics. If this eventually proves to be an accurate assessment it would seem to me that it would throw the physics books out the door just as easily as Rossi Co., or DTG's claims are now attempting to do with their eCats and Hyperon units. The whole alternative energy community would benefit. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
I would also take a second look at the net process energy balance. If aluminum is required as fuel, you would be in big trouble as it takes a lot of energy to obtain the fuel. Years ago I made H gas by putting lye and water into a jar with aluminum foil. My friends and I used the gas to fill bags for balloons. Dave -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:08 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst? More info: http://www.phillipscompany.4t.com/HYDROGEN.html The information below described a new catalyst, CC, that requires zero energy input once the reaction is started and heated to 180F. After that, hydrogen is produced for as long as fuel (water and aluminum) are provided. Zero energy input ? wow, who is going to need lenr once we all have hydrogen on demand ? Not so fast. Obviously, this is an intriguing claim, and I hope it is hecked out soon. In the meantime I would remain cautiously skeptical ntil additional evidence is accumulated. All too often the devil is ventually found in the details. Personal thoughts: Difficulty in extracting hydrogen cheaply, cleanly, nd abundantly has always made it difficult to promote hydrogen as the* ubiquitous clean and abundant energy source for the entire lanet. While such claims might have the potential to worry many CF roponents, the fact that the alleged technology seems to extract ydrogen from H2O without the need for expending additional energy, nce the reaction begins, this would seem to indicate the discovery of nother cold fusion-like / zero-point-energy technology. And that s good news for the alternative energy front. By definition, the technology would ...seem... to violate one of the acred laws of thermodynamics. If this eventually proves to be an ccurate assessment it would seem to me that it would throw the hysics books out the door just as easily as Rossi Co., or DTG's laims are now attempting to do with their eCats and Hyperon units. The whole alternative energy community would benefit. Regards teven Vincent Johnson ww.OrionWorks.com ww.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
From David: I would also take a second look at the net process energy balance. If aluminum is required as fuel, you would be in big trouble as it takes a lot of energy to obtain the fuel. Years ago I made H gas by putting lye and water into a jar with aluminum foil. My friends and I used the gas to fill bags for balloons. Sounds like a lot of fun. I assume your secret sauce formula was eventually used up. Eventually, replenishment is necessary, and there's the rub. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
Indeed. I had just written a reply saying virtually the same think when your Email arrived. I do not beleive that there is any magic here that breaks any laws of physics. On 08/02/2012 15:15, David Roberson wrote: I would also take a second look at the net process energy balance. If aluminum is required as fuel, you would be in big trouble as it takes a lot of energy to obtain the fuel. Years ago I made H gas by putting lye and water into a jar with aluminum foil. My friends and I used the gas to fill bags for balloons. Dave -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnsonsvj.orionwo...@gmail.com To: vortex-lvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:08 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst? More info:
RE: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
This is a lot of aluminum consumption. These are back-of-the-napkin-style calculations, so I apologize if I've missed something, but (unless I've made a large mistake) it appears that: 2[Al ]+ 6[H2O] + CC = CC + 2[Al(OH)3] + 3H2 So, two atoms of aluminum are consumed for every three atoms of diatomic hydrogen gas? Assuming a typical current hydrogen price (from natural gas) of $3/kg, with 2.016 grams/mole = $.006048/mole Assuming aluminum is a typical $2.172/kg, with 26.98154g/mol = $.058603/mole. With a 2/3 molar ratio in the chemical equation, we’re looking at $.058603/mole x 2/3 = production of hydrogen cost through Phillips’ method of $.03907/mole So, we currently produce hydrogen at approx. $.006048/mole, and the amazing new method is $.03907/mole? It’s roughly 6.45x more expensive? It's great that they are achieving great strides in catalysis modeling, but this looks to be an excellent way to ruin aluminum feedstock. There are some industrial uses for Aluminum oxide (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_oxide). Industrially, there may factories that could use aluminum scrap material to both supply hydrogen power generation for the factory, and harvest the aluminum oxide byproduct for use in their production processes. Absent that, am I missing something? Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2012 15:28:47 + From: l...@thedyers.org.uk To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst? Indeed. I had just written a reply saying virtually the same think when your Email arrived. I do not beleive that there is any magic here that breaks any laws of physics. On 08/02/2012 15:15, David Roberson wrote: I would also take a second look at the net process energy balance. If aluminum is required as fuel, you would be in big trouble as it takes a lot of energy to obtain the fuel. Years ago I made H gas by putting lye and water into a jar with aluminum foil. My friends and I used the gas to fill bags for balloons. Dave -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnsonsvj.orionwo...@gmail.com To: vortex-lvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:08 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst? More info:
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
Still, this new vigorous carbon catalyst might also work with Ni Hydrogen where Al is NOT consumed. It would certainly be worth testing! Fran -Original Message- From: Nigel Dyer [mailto:l...@thedyers.org.uk] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2012 10:29 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst? Indeed. I had just written a reply saying virtually the same think when your Email arrived. I do not beleive that there is any magic here that breaks any laws of physics. On 08/02/2012 15:15, David Roberson wrote: I would also take a second look at the net process energy balance. If aluminum is required as fuel, you would be in big trouble as it takes a lot of energy to obtain the fuel. Years ago I made H gas by putting lye and water into a jar with aluminum foil. My friends and I used the gas to fill bags for balloons. Dave -Original Message- From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnsonsvj.orionwo...@gmail.com To: vortex-lvortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 8, 2012 10:08 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst? More info:
RE: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
From: Robert Leguillon * * This is a lot of aluminum consumption. These are back-of-the-napkin-style calculations, so I apologize if I've missed something, but (unless I've made a large mistake) it appears that: 2[Al ]+ 6[H2O] + CC = CC + 2[Al(OH)3] + 3H2 . Absent that, am I missing something? Robert, you may be missing a bit of the lore or do not remember the Pacheco process of H2 generation, which is essentially this same scenario except the hydroxide is itself split, leaving alumina, and there is the claim of an anomaly in H2 output. http://www.rexresearch.com/pacheco/pacheco.htm This process never went commercial but good testing showed that it gave much more hydrogen than it should it was mentioned that the actual rate was over 3:1 over the rate of normal aluminum consumption using these calculations, indicating that there is some anomaly. Still aluminum is so dear that 3:1 this makes little sense. Even at triple the output of H2, there is a problem but at a certain level of production - the economics would work out, and Alcoa probably knows this and is waiting for oil to hit $200. I do not know what that level is but it is highly dependent on the price of oil, vis-à-vis aluminum. I know of one inventor in Mississippi - who has a Pacheco-like process that he claims is very economical NOW, when using recycled aluminum beer cans as the energy source. He can drive you around in a vehicle powered this way - for a fraction of the cost of gasoline. The problem there, as anyone can see - is supply and demand. If he were successful, then the price of recycled aluminum goes up and there is a net negative in disposing of all the spent alumina or AlOH. Jones
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
On Wed, Feb 8, 2012 at 11:33 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: He can drive you around in a vehicle powered this way - for a fraction of the cost of gasoline. Sober, I hope. T
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
yes, but it is a method to use aluminum as a vector fuel for hydrogen, provided you have a cheap way to transform Aluminum Hydroxide into Aluminium... today not so cheap, but with LENR electricity, maybe the usual method is OK... but hydrogen also is a vector, so... many indirection... just to avoid making an hybrid engine. could be used anyway for LENR reactor to avoid the bottle of H2. 2012/2/8 Robert Leguillon robert.leguil...@hotmail.com So, we currently produce hydrogen at approx. $.006048/mole, and the amazing new method is $.03907/mole? It’s roughly 6.45x more expensive?It's great that they are achieving great strides in catalysis modeling, but this looks to be an excellent way to ruin aluminum feedstock.
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
Von: Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 18:42 Mittwoch, 8.Februar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst? yes, but it is a method to use aluminum as a vector fuel for hydrogen, provided you have a cheap way to transform Aluminum Hydroxide into Aluminium... -- agreed. but there seems to be no viable way to produce aluminum in an energy-efficient way. ...12,9–17,7 kW per kg raw-aluminum. And this is for ca 100 years. Non-electrolytic methods to produce aluminum placed the price of 1kg aluminum in the same range as 1kg gold in the 19th century, I learned. Direct H2O-electrolysis is much more efficient. But anyway. The search for 'vector-fuels' is important and gets a new angle with the e-cat. The next billion dollar question: How to get electricity from say 400°C with minimal cost/maximum efficiency? greetings
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
from discussion here I got the feeling that at a given minimum size, the answer is : Rankine Cycle turbine, maybe Organic Rankine. however the minimum size is not clear... maybe car (20-50kW) is possible. have to work on turbine, but also radiators, key problem. for CHP 7-15KW, not sure it can be efficient, but it works. for smaller power, or smaller vehicle (motor bikes, moped, bike assist)... maybe no good solution. stirling or turbines are too heavy, have low efficiency. thermoelectric devices have bad efficiency for bikeassist less that 100W mecanic , with a battery, in serial hybrid configuration, could do the job (to refill in the day/night, and push on slope about 200-500W). miniaturization will be more important than efficiency. for moped you can get 1-2kW... for motorbike it can start from few 5kW to above 50kW, but won't be fun over 10-20kW unlike today 2012/2/8 Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com The next billion dollar question: How to get electricity from say 400°C with minimal cost/maximum efficiency?
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
In reply to Guenter Wildgruber's message of Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:43:28 + (GMT): Hi, [snip] The next billion dollar question: How to get electricity from say 400°C with minimal cost/maximum efficiency? ...ask the nuclear fission power industry. They do it all the time. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
While I don't think Stirling are good for larger sizes I do think that they might work well for 0.2-3kW. Stirling engines were in large volume production 100 years ago for small output applications (though they were big and heavy), and the cost is less of a negative factor for small sizes if they work well and can run for 10's of thousands of hours (which some low output stirling engines like Infinia, Microgen and Whispergen can). While at the moment those engines still cost $2-3000 per kW and are very heavy (10's of kg per kW), the cost might come down by a factor of 3 or more in mass production, and they do have good efficiency of up to 30%. Steam engines will be very strong competition, It's amazing how small and powerful they are (competitive with IC engines). Check out cyclone power http://www.cyclonepower.com/ to see how good they might be (claiming 150kg, 75kW, and up to 30% efficient from a 6 cylinder radial steam engine integrated with heater and condenser). But steam is also very dangerous in a crash, and their might be reliability/life issues. I don't think I would want to ride a motorbike with steam storage between my legs, and might also be a bit concerned with it in a car. On 8 February 2012 20:03, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: from discussion here I got the feeling that at a given minimum size, the answer is : Rankine Cycle turbine, maybe Organic Rankine. however the minimum size is not clear... maybe car (20-50kW) is possible. have to work on turbine, but also radiators, key problem. for CHP 7-15KW, not sure it can be efficient, but it works. for smaller power, or smaller vehicle (motor bikes, moped, bike assist)... maybe no good solution. stirling or turbines are too heavy, have low efficiency. thermoelectric devices have bad efficiency for bikeassist less that 100W mecanic , with a battery, in serial hybrid configuration, could do the job (to refill in the day/night, and push on slope about 200-500W). miniaturization will be more important than efficiency. for moped you can get 1-2kW... for motorbike it can start from few 5kW to above 50kW, but won't be fun over 10-20kW unlike today 2012/2/8 Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com The next billion dollar question: How to get electricity from say 400°C with minimal cost/maximum efficiency?
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
yest, even below 400C, at 300C+ if I remember, but with minimum Megawatt power, if not Gigawatt... who knows what is the smallest efficient rankine turbine ? 2012/2/8 mix...@bigpond.com In reply to Guenter Wildgruber's message of Wed, 8 Feb 2012 18:43:28 + (GMT): Hi, [snip] The next billion dollar question: How to get electricity from say 400°C with minimal cost/maximum efficiency? ...ask the nuclear fission power industry. They do it all the time. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
their white paper http://www.cyclonepower.com/PDF/Cyclone%20Engine%20White%20Paper.pdf present their rankine engine concept. it seems that direct drive is possible, since torke can be very high at starting. weight and power is ok... with LENR maybe the throttle will be less easy to control... maybe ther is a way to control power by throttling the steam/venting it. maybe a parallel hybrid could be used... they say that the total consumption with gasoline was quite normal, so with lenr efficiency should be correct... new ideas. 2012/2/8 Robert Lynn robert.gulliver.l...@gmail.com While I don't think Stirling are good for larger sizes I do think that they might work well for 0.2-3kW. Stirling engines were in large volume production 100 years ago for small output applications (though they were big and heavy), and the cost is less of a negative factor for small sizes if they work well and can run for 10's of thousands of hours (which some low output stirling engines like Infinia, Microgen and Whispergen can). While at the moment those engines still cost $2-3000 per kW and are very heavy (10's of kg per kW), the cost might come down by a factor of 3 or more in mass production, and they do have good efficiency of up to 30%. Steam engines will be very strong competition, It's amazing how small and powerful they are (competitive with IC engines). Check out cyclone power http://www.cyclonepower.com/ to see how good they might be (claiming 150kg, 75kW, and up to 30% efficient from a 6 cylinder radial steam engine integrated with heater and condenser). But steam is also very dangerous in a crash, and their might be reliability/life issues. I don't think I would want to ride a motorbike with steam storage between my legs, and might also be a bit concerned with it in a car. On 8 February 2012 20:03, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.com wrote: from discussion here I got the feeling that at a given minimum size, the answer is : Rankine Cycle turbine, maybe Organic Rankine. however the minimum size is not clear... maybe car (20-50kW) is possible. have to work on turbine, but also radiators, key problem. for CHP 7-15KW, not sure it can be efficient, but it works. for smaller power, or smaller vehicle (motor bikes, moped, bike assist)... maybe no good solution. stirling or turbines are too heavy, have low efficiency. thermoelectric devices have bad efficiency for bikeassist less that 100W mecanic , with a battery, in serial hybrid configuration, could do the job (to refill in the day/night, and push on slope about 200-500W). miniaturization will be more important than efficiency. for moped you can get 1-2kW... for motorbike it can start from few 5kW to above 50kW, but won't be fun over 10-20kW unlike today 2012/2/8 Guenter Wildgruber gwildgru...@ymail.com The next billion dollar question: How to get electricity from say 400°C with minimal cost/maximum efficiency?
RE: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
At 07:41 AM 2/8/2012, Robert Leguillon wrote: This is a lot of aluminum consumption. These are back-of-the-napkin-style calculations, so I apologize if I've missed something, but (unless I've made a large mistake) it appears that: So, we currently produce hydrogen at approx. $.006048/mole, and the amazing new method is $.03907/mole? Its roughly 6.45x more expensive? It's great that they are achieving great strides in catalysis modeling, but this looks to be an excellent way to ruin aluminum feedstock. There are some industrial uses for Aluminum oxide (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_oxide). Industrially, there may factories that could use aluminum scrap material to both supply hydrogen power generation for the factory, and harvest the aluminum oxide byproduct for use in their production processes. Absent that, am I missing something? The best info I can come up with on Aluminum-Oxide to Aluminum recycling is : http://www.balcoindia.com/operation/pdf/Aluminium-Production-Process.pdf which indicates electrical use of about 14,000 kWH / 1kG of Al. Can anyone calculate the kWH per 1kG Al GENERATED by this CC system? That would give a rough COP (ignoring transport costs).
RE: [Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
Philips Company ... http://www.phillipscompany.4t.com/Products.html ... seems a bit flakey. Products: Fast recovery from skin burns: www.SkinBurns.yolasite.com Successful treatment of acne: www.acne.7p.com Successful treatment of eczema: www.EcoDermKit.yolasite.com Successful treatment of psoriasis: www.PsoriasisPlus.yolasite.com Successful treatment of MRSA and staph infections: www.MRSA.8K.com Snake Bite and Jellyfish sting kits: www.PhillipsCompany.4T.com/VXFT.pdf
[Vo]:World's best H2 catalyst?
http://www.virtual-strategy.com/2012/02/08/phillips-announces-worlds-best-catalyst-producing-hydrogen-fuel-water Mark Mark Goldes Co-founder, Chava Energy CEO, Aesop Institute 301A North Main Street Sebastopol, CA 95472 www.chavaenergy.com www.aesopinstitute.org
