Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC BP photoshopped photos "from bad to ridiculously bad"

[Stephen A. Lawrence]

On 07/22/2010 02:57 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> BP has been caught publishing several photoshopped photos of their
> clear-up efforts. Here is one of a helicopter supposedly flying over
> the Gulf, with the airport control tower in the top left window:
>
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100722/01352410315.shtml
>
> Also the instrument panel apparently shows that the door is open and
> parking brake engaged.
>
> That's pretty funny!
>
> This is so badly done I think it is naive. Someone there is thinking:
> "So what if we assemble a few different photos? What harm?"
>
> Yesterday Jones Beene gave us a YouTube link showing crop circles
> forming, with lights whizzing around a field. I cannot judge it
> because it is blurry ...

Yes, odd, that, when even cell phone videos of police assaults during
demonstrations are typically razor sharp these days.

Nice how the circles turned out to appear exactly centered in the frame,
with the pattern just filling the frame -- a very lucky job of
prepositioning the camera, I'd say!

And it looked an awful lot like time-lapse photography, as well, at
least to my eyes.

All in all I'm not going to bet my life savings that anything even
slightly mysterious was going on in that video.


> and I do not know much about how to verify a video. I must say it
> reminds me of the Extreme Sheep LED Art video from Wales:

Which, FWIW, was also time-lapse during some sequences, but in their
case it was totally legit -- it just takes a while to get the sheep into
position, and speeding it up just, well, speeds it up...


>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw

Thanks for re-posting this -- I got another good laugh out of it second
time around!  It's great!


>
> As I said, people often do things that seem mysterious, inexplicable
> or pointless. And as they say in Wales, there's nowt so queer as folk.
>
> - Jed

[Vo]:OFF TOPIC BP photoshopped photos "from bad to ridiculously bad"

[Jed Rothwell]

BP has been caught publishing several photoshopped photos of their 
clear-up efforts. Here is one of a helicopter supposedly flying over 
the Gulf, with the airport control tower in the top left window:


http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100722/01352410315.shtml

Also the instrument panel apparently shows that the door is open and 
parking brake engaged.


That's pretty funny!

This is so badly done I think it is naive. Someone there is thinking: 
"So what if we assemble a few different photos? What harm?"


Yesterday Jones Beene gave us a YouTube link showing crop circles 
forming, with lights whizzing around a field. I cannot judge it 
because it is blurry and I do not know much about how to verify a 
video. I must say it reminds me of the Extreme Sheep LED Art video from Wales:


<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2FX9rviEhw

As I said, people often do things that seem mysterious, inexplicable 
or pointless. And as they say in Wales, there's nowt so queer as folk.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:News Flash - BLP behind BP conspiracy

[Jed Rothwell]

This is seriously off topic, but I will write a brief answer . . .

Jed, you're a historical scholar of sorts. And you know a lot about 
Japan. I'm curious, and I really don't know the answer to this 
question. In your opinion, do you think Japan would have stopped 
their expansionist plans after securing DEI?


I think the Japanese Empire was doomed long before they attacked 
Pearl Harbor. They were mired in an unwinnable war in China. It was 
like the U.S. war in Vietnam only about a hundred times worse. Sooner 
or later, the Chinese would have defeated them completely. It might 
have taken decades, but so did the Vietnam war.


The Russians survived the German invasion and were growing stronger 
by 1944. They started giving substantial military aid to the Chinese 
communists, who then began to beat the Japanese armies as well as the 
Chinese nationalists. Perhaps it would have taken another 10 years 
but they would eventually have overpowered the Japanese completely. 
Japan was no match for Russia. They fought a short war in Nomonhan in 
1939. The Russians blew them out of the water. Eventually the 
Russians and Chinese would have gotten tired of the Japanese presence 
on the continent and pushed them out of Manchuria and Korea as well.


Superpowers -- especially totalitarian superpowers -- do not allow 
small nations to establish empires at their borders. That would be 
like 19th century U.S. allowing the Europeans to fight colonial wars 
in Central America. I am sure the Chinese and Russians would have 
enforced their version of the Monroe Doctrine. I am pretty sure that 
by the 1960s the Japanese empire would have been dead and gone, like 
the British empire.


- Jed

Re: [Vo]:News Flash - BLP behind BP conspiracy

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

>From Jed:

...

> Honestly, they [Japan] should have had enough sense to attack the Dutch only,
> instead of Pearl Harbor. I doubt the U.S. would have declared war on Japan 
> over
> colonies of an occupied European country.

Interesting conjecture, Jed. I recommend you send your hypothesis to
Harry Turtledove. Harry's a renowned S.F. writer who has explored
numerous alternative historical events. It might give him something to
ponder, for a future novel. ;-)

Personally, I'm not convinced it would have panned out as you have
speculated. Keep in mind Germany at the same time was fast becoming an
ugly tinderbox that would eventually explode across the geopolitical
map. Seems to me a global bar fight was fast approaching.

IMO, had Japan attacked the Dutch East Indies and secured its
desperately needed oil reserves I think it's very likely that the rest
of the world (U.S. included) would have become increasingly more
concerned about Japan's future intentions. In any case, it is probably
extremely lucky that Japan "chose poorly" and attacked PH when it did.
The infamous event forced our hand. Had Japan gone after DEI instead
of PH, we would have, first of all, probably hemmed and hawed for
several more years, and in the meantime who knows how much stronger
Japan's military strength might have increased by.

Jed, you're a historical scholar of sorts. And you know a lot about
Japan. I'm curious, and I really don't know the answer to this
question. In your opinion, do you think Japan would have stopped their
expansionist plans after securing DEI?

If not, things could have turned out to have been much more bloody for
both sides.

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

RE: [Vo]:News Flash - BLP behind BP conspiracy

[Jed Rothwell]

Jones Beene wrote:


Funny you should mention that film, Steven. Especially in the context of
current economic considerations. The plot involved a "formula" devised by
the Nazis in WW II to make gasoline from peat and subgrade coal, eliminating
the need to import oil - which did happen in actuality.


I don't know about the subgrade part, but German production of 
petrochemicals from coal is well documents. See Yergin's book "The 
Prize" for example. He says that synthetic fuel from coal provided 
"more than half of Germany's total oil supply during the way." The 
plants were a huge problem though. I mean the problem was, the plants 
were huge. They took up a lot of space. They were such big targets 
that even WWII era bombers could hit them. See Figs. 53 and 54, the 
Magdenburg synthetic fuel factory that opened in 1937 and the same 
plant "after three thousand bombs were dropped on it by Allied bombers."


Oil played a critical role in WWII, in Europe and the Pacific. Japan 
went to war after the U.S. cut off their oil because they figured 
they had about a two-year supply for their Navy. Their first goal was 
to secure oil supplies in Indonesia (then called the Dutch East 
Indies), which they did.


Honestly, they should have had enough sense to attack the Dutch only, 
instead of Pearl Harbor. I doubt the U.S. would have declared war on 
Japan over colonies of an occupied European country.


- Jed

RE: [Vo]:News Flash - BLP behind BP conspiracy

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson 

> I think this whole thing is a setup.

Great drama!

This conclusion is almost as good as the film, "The Formula" ;-)



Funny you should mention that film, Steven. Especially in the context of
current economic considerations. The plot involved a "formula" devised by
the Nazis in WW II to make gasoline from peat and subgrade coal, eliminating
the need to import oil - which did happen in actuality. 

In the movie, a major oil company (with morals akin to BP perhaps), finds
out about the technology and tries to destroy the formula, along with anyone
who knows about - including George C. Scott. That is the preposterous part.

Anyway, there was indeed a German archive for this kind of technology - that
was no gimmick, and indeed it was 'put on ice' by the oil companies in 1945
for a determined time period since there was an oil glut then. 

After which, the technology was indeed investigated by at least one Texas
University (A&M) but that was back when oil was $10 barrel or less so it
went nowhere. 

Actually, the State of Texas has far more energy in low grade coal than in
oil - so it would benefit the State as a whole to exploit it. There really
is no conspiracy since in general, the same people own the mineral rights to
both. 

It is only recently that the cost comparison has made a major shift, and as
long as oil stays at $70 - it would probably be  economically viable - if
not extremely profitable to do this in 2010. For all we know, this could be
underway by a few oil companies, as we speak. 

They want to sell transportation fuel and don't give a hoot where it comes
from. It makes more sense for them to convert subgrade coal than to buy a
billion dollar oil rig.
 
Anyway - here is a slightly dramatized take on the back-story (from yet
another very authoritative source :)

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20078987,00.html

There is (was) a more accurate version of this historical account somewhere
on the net, at least years ago there was, but it did not turn up in Googling
just now ... 

Jones

Re: [Vo]:News Flash - BLP behind BP conspiracy

[OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson]

Jones sez:

> And I know that you will believe every word of it …
>
> http://fascistsoup.com/2010/06/08/there-is-a-broader-conspiracy-over-the-bp-oil-spill/

The blogger concludes:

> Now I shall provide my abject speculation:
>
> I think BP intentionally destroyed the well in order to bring about massive 
> resentment of
> the oil industry.
>
> I think this entire thing is a coordinated stunt to demonize oil.
>
> Why?
>
> Because I think BP is involved with Swiss bankers in a move to take over the 
> free
> energy market.
>
> Specifically, I think they are going to take over the energy market using 
> Blacklight
> Power’s technology. And they are going to use the oil spill to get carbon 
> taxes put
> in place to shut down ALL fossil fuel energies, including oil, so they can 
> corner the
> free energy market in power generation.
>
> I know for a fact that Blacklight Power (BP initials, coincidence?) is 
> bankrolled by
> Swiss bankers and other heavy hitters in the energy industry.
>
> Mills is a Harvard grad, which means he automatically has globalist 
> connections.
>
> I think this whole thing is a setup.

Great drama!

This conclusion is almost as good as the film, "The Formula" ;-)

Who should play Randy's role? Marlin Brando, of course!

Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks

[Vo]:News Flash - BLP behind BP conspiracy

[Jones Beene]

And I know that you will believe every word of it .

http://fascistsoup.com/2010/06/08/there-is-a-broader-conspiracy-over-the-bp-
oil-spill/

[Vo]:More on BP safety violations

[Jed Rothwell]

See:

Renegade Refiner: OSHA Says BP Has “Systemic Safety Problem”
97% of Worst Industry Violations Found at BP Refineries

By Jim Morris and M.B. Pell | May 16, 2010

http://www.publicintegrity.org/articles/entry/2085/

- Jed

[Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Taylor J. Smith]

Mauro Lacy wrote on 6-4-10:

I can't believe they can't stop the oil spill after more
than six weeks.  At this point it sounds like something
intentional to me.

Jed wrote on 6-4-10:

That can't be! BP will lose billions of dollars. There is
no way anyone would cause this situation on purpose. No
saboteur could get within a kilometer of the place, or
know how to trigger this disaster.

Hi All,

I disagree with Jed's statement that "No saboteur could
get within a kilometer of the place ..."; but I do agree
that BP would not sacrifice itself on the altar of higher
oil prices -- maybe some of BP's competitors ("There's no
honor among thieves") would help BP commit hari kiri for
the good of the Gang.

More likely, the men in black and their kleptocrat masters
may have done this to increase the priority of the Unocal
pipeline across Afghanistan.

Speaking of losses, if the price of oil goes back up to
$125/barrel because of a perceived (or imagined) shortage,
BP could make as mmuch as $3 for each dollar it spends on
the cleanup. BP owns a lot of oil wells.

Jack Smith


Jack Smith



Jack Smith

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Mauro Lacy]

On 06/03/2010 10:50 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> -Original Message-
> From: Terry Blanton 
>
>
> ". . .and a third part of the sea became blood."
>
> Odd that this spill from deep water looks red.
>
>
>
> Say, speaking of deepwater revelations - is the new BP well-cap one of the
> "seven bowls"?
>   

I suppose you mean, seals.
The Hopi prophecies also talk about the sea turning black, and causing
death:
/"This is the Seventh Sign:/ You will hear of the sea turning black, and
many living things dying because of it."
(http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/hopi1.html)

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Mauro Lacy]

On 06/03/2010 09:31 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Mauro Lacy mailto:ma...@lacy.com.ar>> wrote:
>  
>
> I think that if they can cut it, they can certainly crunch it, and
> keep
> it pressed afterwards. But they should know better, isn't?
>
>
> They should, and experts generally do, but you never know.
>
>  
>
> The vice can be left in place until a better way to solve the issue
> (like cementing all the zone around the pipe, or putting a metalic
> cap),
> is finally implemented. Afterwards, you can cement everything,
> including
> your expensive vice. Everything will be cheaper than the enviromental
> disaster they are now causing.
>
>
> That does sound sensible. After all, they close these pipes with
> gigantic valves. I expect they thought of this and there is a reason
> why it would not work, but as I said, you never know.

Some logical improvements(although as more improvements are done, more
time would be needed to build a first prototype):
- The stabilization and suspension can be achieved with regulable
flotation tanks. No need for suspension cables from surface ships, then.
- The position and movement can be achieved with small helices and
motors, a la mini submarine.
- The "jaws" of the mechanical vice can be made demountable, so after
being closed, and when properly fixated in its place using accessory
screws, the rest of the machine can be recovered. This dispenses also
with the need of cementing everything, as the jaws will be kept in its
place by the pipe itself. Think "externally adapted emergency valve".
The machine itself can have a mechanism to fix the accessory screws
between the jaws, and detach from them afterwards.

Think "submarine robotic mechanical vice with demountable jaws".
A bunch of dedicated engineers with plenty of resources can probably be
able to build a machine like that in a couple of weeks, using and
combining already existing machines and designs.

I suppose I should fill a patent application :-)

> One of the many lessons of cold fusion is that sometimes people you
> think are vaunted experts turn out to be nitwits who have no clue what
> they are doing.
>
> Quoting Leonard Pitts today:
>
> . . . one other consequence becomes jarringly apparent: the Myth of
> Competence has died.
>
> Meaning the belief that people who engage in high-risk activities — in
> this case, the ones who drill for oil 5,000 feet under the sea — know
> what they're doing, that they have every contingency covered, that
> even their backup plans have backup plans. Surely this is what Sarah
> Palin was thinking when she chirped, "Drill, baby, drill!" Surely this
> is what President Barack Obama relied upon when he recently proposed
> to open new waters to oil exploration.
>
> Anticipating protests from environmentalists, he even promised that,
> "we'll employ new technologies that reduce the impact of oil
> exploration. We'll protect areas that are vital to tourism, the
> environment, and our national security."
>
> Three weeks later, the oil rig exploded. So far, that protection he
> promised has been nonexistent. That faith in new technologies he
> mentioned has proved misplaced. . . .
>
> We have been disabused of the Myth of Competence, shorn of the belief
> that the people in charge are capable of handling any eventuality.
>
> . . .  We have seen strategy after strategy announced in great hope,
> abandoned in grim resignation. We have seen days turn to weeks and
> weeks to months and now, apparently, months will turn to seasons. And
> still the oil flows. . . ."
>
> I doubt this surprises anyone familiar with technology. I am glad that
> the rest of society is learning this. It is good medicine. Not much
> good comes out of a disaster but let us hope for a new birth of
> vigilance and less blind trust in technology. Also, as long as we are
> hoping, let us hope that someone will take a moment to look at cold
> fusion as a possible way to get rid of wretched, 19th century oil
> technology. It is long overdue for replacement.
>

Indeed.

Mauro

RE: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Jones Beene]

-Original Message-
From: Terry Blanton 


". . .and a third part of the sea became blood."

Odd that this spill from deep water looks red.



Say, speaking of deepwater revelations - is the new BP well-cap one of the
"seven bowls"?

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Terry Blanton]

". . .and a third part of the sea became blood."

Odd that this spill from deep water looks red.

T

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Mauro Lacy  wrote:


> I think that if they can cut it, they can certainly crunch it, and keep
> it pressed afterwards. But they should know better, isn't?
>

They should, and experts generally do, but you never know.



> The vice can be left in place until a better way to solve the issue
> (like cementing all the zone around the pipe, or putting a metalic cap),
> is finally implemented. Afterwards, you can cement everything, including
> your expensive vice. Everything will be cheaper than the enviromental
> disaster they are now causing.
>

That does sound sensible. After all, they close these pipes with gigantic
valves. I expect they thought of this and there is a reason why it would not
work, but as I said, you never know. One of the many lessons of cold fusion
is that sometimes people you think are vaunted experts turn out to be
nitwits who have no clue what they are doing.

Quoting Leonard Pitts today:

. . . one other consequence becomes jarringly apparent: the Myth of
Competence has died.

Meaning the belief that people who engage in high-risk activities — in this
case, the ones who drill for oil 5,000 feet under the sea — know what
they're doing, that they have every contingency covered, that even their
backup plans have backup plans. Surely this is what Sarah Palin was thinking
when she chirped, "Drill, baby, drill!" Surely this is what President Barack
Obama relied upon when he recently proposed to open new waters to oil
exploration.

Anticipating protests from environmentalists, he even promised that, "we'll
employ new technologies that reduce the impact of oil exploration. We'll
protect areas that are vital to tourism, the environment, and our national
security."

Three weeks later, the oil rig exploded. So far, that protection he promised
has been nonexistent. That faith in new technologies he mentioned has proved
misplaced. . . .

We have been disabused of the Myth of Competence, shorn of the belief that
the people in charge are capable of handling any eventuality.

. . .  We have seen strategy after strategy announced in great hope,
abandoned in grim resignation. We have seen days turn to weeks and weeks to
months and now, apparently, months will turn to seasons. And still the oil
flows. . . ."

I doubt this surprises anyone familiar with technology. I am glad that the
rest of society is learning this. It is good medicine. Not much good comes
out of a disaster but let us hope for a new birth of vigilance and less
blind trust in technology. Also, as long as we are hoping, let us hope that
someone will take a moment to look at cold fusion as a possible way to get
rid of wretched, 19th century oil technology. It is long overdue for
replacement.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Mauro Lacy]

On 06/03/2010 08:22 PM, Mauro Lacy wrote:
> On 06/03/2010 07:55 PM, Alexander Hollins wrote:
>   
>> um, the pipe burst out.  its a hollow column of rock.
>>   
>> 
> Really? And what where they trying to cut some days ago?
>   
what, where, when? were I meant

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Mauro Lacy]

On 06/03/2010 07:55 PM, Alexander Hollins wrote:
> um, the pipe burst out.  its a hollow column of rock.
>   

Really? And what where they trying to cut some days ago?

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Mauro Lacy]

On 06/03/2010 07:46 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Mauro Lacy wrote:
>
>   
>> I can't believe they can't stop the oil spill after more than six weeks.
>> At this point it sounds like something intentional to me.
>> 
> That can't be! BP will lose billions of dollars. There is no way 
> anyone would cause this situation on purpose. No saboteur could get 
> within a kilometer of the place, or know how to trigger this disaster.
>
>
>   
>> Don't they know about mechanical vices?
>>
>> As they have access to the base of the leaking pipe, a powerful enough
>> mechanical vice can be used to slowly compress the pipe, until closing it.
>> 
> I doubt that would work. If thousands of tons of mud do not stop it, 
>   

Throwing mud and other things does not sound like a good idea, because
the pressure from the flow of oil will certainly move them away.
> I doubt that would. The pressure would just push the pipe open again.
>   

They can leave the mechanical vice in place after crunching the pipe,
with a mechanical lock enabled. And also with some kind of auxiliary
suspension mechanism, if needed. Probably from ships on the surface, as
the bottom of the sea must be very irregular and muddy to serve as a
base, and also due to the difficulty of working there.
I think that if they can cut it, they can certainly crunch it, and keep
it pressed afterwards. But they should know better, isn't?
The vice can be left in place until a better way to solve the issue
(like cementing all the zone around the pipe, or putting a metalic cap),
is finally implemented. Afterwards, you can cement everything, including
your expensive vice. Everything will be cheaper than the enviromental
disaster they are now causing.

> The thing you have to remember is that BP and Uncle Sam have every 
> expert on the planet on speed dial. I am sure if any expert out there 
> in major equipment company or oil company knows a way to fix this 
> problem, he or she can get a message through. Yes, these people have 
> heard of mechanical vices. And cutters. The cutter they finally used 
> is the size of a truck.
>
> The only criticism I have is that they should have done more in 
> parallel, getting read to do Plan B and Plan C while Plan A was still 
> underway.
>
> I do not feel sorry for BP but I feel awful for the engineers and 
> equipment operators out there, in the spotlight, trying to deal with 
> recalcitrant equipment in a dangerous, unforgiving place. On a scale 
> a million times smaller, with absolutely no physical danger . . . I 
> have been in their shoes.
>
> It reminds me of Kipling's poem, "The Secret of the Machines:"
>
> But, remember, please, the Law by which we live,
> We are not built to comprehend a lie,
> We can neither love nor pity nor forgive.
> If you make a slip in handling us you die!
>
> - Jed
>
>
>   

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Alexander Hollins]

um, the pipe burst out.  its a hollow column of rock.

On Thu, Jun 3, 2010 at 3:31 PM, Mauro Lacy  wrote:
> I can't believe they can't stop the oil spill after more than six weeks.
> At this point it sounds like something intentional to me.
>
> Don't they know about mechanical vices?
>
> As they have access to the base of the leaking pipe, a powerful enough
> mechanical vice can be used to slowly compress the pipe, until closing it.
> The mechanical vice will be remotely operated and put into place, of
> course. They can test the special equipment on the ground all that is
> needed, until satisfied, to be almost certain that it will work.
> I don't understand why they stick to using methods whose results are
> relatively unpredictable, instead of focusing in a single well designed
> method with a high probability of success from the beginning.
>
> Mauro
>
> On 06/03/2010 04:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>> Jon Stewart on the Daily Show quoted an interview
>> with BP managing director Bob Dudley, conducted
>> by George Stephanopoulos. Apparently, in the last
>> 3 years, BP's facilities have been cited by OSHA
>> for "760 egregious, willful safety violations." This compares to:
>>
>> Sunoco 8
>> ConocoPhillips 8
>> Citago 2
>> Exxon 1
>>
>> See:
>>
>> http://www.columbusalive.com/live/content/features/stories/2010/06/03/the-daily-show-the-spilling-fields.html
>>
>> This does not surprise me. When you look into the
>> history of severe industrial accidents and
>> catastrophes such as the Titanic sinking, the
>> Challenger explosion, and the accidents at Three
>> Mile Island or Brown's Ferry, you usually find
>> precursor events such as smaller accidents or
>> close calls. You find incompetence or criminal
>> mismanagement. You might say that accidents don't happen by accident.
>>
>> Here is an example of a close-call that should
>> never have happened, and an example of muddled
>> thinking in upper management. Before the
>> Challenger exploded, the o-rings on the Space
>> Shuttle tank partially eroded in previous
>> launches, something they were never expected to
>> do, or designed to do. Quoting Feynman, "What Do
>> You Care What Other People Think?," p. 244:
>>
>> . . . in flight 51-C, it was noted that the
>> erosion depth was only one-third of the radius.
>> It had been noted in an experiment cutting the
>> ring that cutting it as deep as one radius was
>> necessary before the ring failed. Instead of
>> being very concerned that varia負ions of poorly
>> understood conditions might reasonably create a
>> deeper erosion this time, it was asserted there was "a safety factor of 
>> three."
>>
>> This is a strange use of the engineer's term
>> "safety factor." If a bridge is built to
>> withstand a certain load with觔ut the beams
>> permanently deforming, cracking, or break虹ng, it
>> may be designed for the materials used to
>> actually stand up under three times the load.
>> This "safety factor" is to allow for uncertain
>> excesses of load, or unknown extra loads, or
>> weaknesses in the material that might have
>> unex計ected flaws, et cetera. But if the expected
>> load comes on to the new bridge and a crack
>> appears in a beam, this is a failure of the
>> design. There was no safety factor at all, even
>> though the bridge did not actually collapse
>> because the crack only went one-third of the way
>> through the beam. The O-rings of the solid rocket
>> boosters were not designed to erode. Erosion was
>> a clue that something was wrong. Erosion was not
>> something from which safety could be inferred.
>>
>> There was no way, without full understanding,
>> that one could have confidence that conditions
>> the next time might not produce erosion three
>> times more severe than the time before.
>> Nevertheless, officials fooled themselves into
>> thinking they had such understanding and
>> confidence, in spite of the peculiar variations
>> from case to case. A mathematical model was made
>> to calculate erosion. This was a model based not
>> on physical understanding but on empirical curve fitting. . . ."
>>
>>
>> [This gives empirical curve fitting a bad name . . .]
>>
>> - Jed
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Mauro Lacy wrote:


I can't believe they can't stop the oil spill after more than six weeks.
At this point it sounds like something intentional to me.


That can't be! BP will lose billions of dollars. There is no way 
anyone would cause this situation on purpose. No saboteur could get 
within a kilometer of the place, or know how to trigger this disaster.




Don't they know about mechanical vices?

As they have access to the base of the leaking pipe, a powerful enough
mechanical vice can be used to slowly compress the pipe, until closing it.


I doubt that would work. If thousands of tons of mud do not stop it, 
I doubt that would. The pressure would just push the pipe open again.


The thing you have to remember is that BP and Uncle Sam have every 
expert on the planet on speed dial. I am sure if any expert out there 
in major equipment company or oil company knows a way to fix this 
problem, he or she can get a message through. Yes, these people have 
heard of mechanical vices. And cutters. The cutter they finally used 
is the size of a truck.


The only criticism I have is that they should have done more in 
parallel, getting read to do Plan B and Plan C while Plan A was still underway.


I do not feel sorry for BP but I feel awful for the engineers and 
equipment operators out there, in the spotlight, trying to deal with 
recalcitrant equipment in a dangerous, unforgiving place. On a scale 
a million times smaller, with absolutely no physical danger . . . I 
have been in their shoes.


It reminds me of Kipling's poem, "The Secret of the Machines:"

But, remember, please, the Law by which we live,
We are not built to comprehend a lie,
We can neither love nor pity nor forgive.
If you make a slip in handling us you die!

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Mauro Lacy]

I can't believe they can't stop the oil spill after more than six weeks.
At this point it sounds like something intentional to me.

Don't they know about mechanical vices?

As they have access to the base of the leaking pipe, a powerful enough
mechanical vice can be used to slowly compress the pipe, until closing it.
The mechanical vice will be remotely operated and put into place, of
course. They can test the special equipment on the ground all that is
needed, until satisfied, to be almost certain that it will work.
I don't understand why they stick to using methods whose results are
relatively unpredictable, instead of focusing in a single well designed
method with a high probability of success from the beginning.

Mauro

On 06/03/2010 04:20 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Jon Stewart on the Daily Show quoted an interview 
> with BP managing director Bob Dudley, conducted 
> by George Stephanopoulos. Apparently, in the last 
> 3 years, BP's facilities have been cited by OSHA 
> for "760 egregious, willful safety violations." This compares to:
>
> Sunoco 8
> ConocoPhillips 8
> Citago 2
> Exxon 1
>
> See:
>
> http://www.columbusalive.com/live/content/features/stories/2010/06/03/the-daily-show-the-spilling-fields.html
>
> This does not surprise me. When you look into the 
> history of severe industrial accidents and 
> catastrophes such as the Titanic sinking, the 
> Challenger explosion, and the accidents at Three 
> Mile Island or Brown's Ferry, you usually find 
> precursor events such as smaller accidents or 
> close calls. You find incompetence or criminal 
> mismanagement. You might say that accidents don't happen by accident.
>
> Here is an example of a close-call that should 
> never have happened, and an example of muddled 
> thinking in upper management. Before the 
> Challenger exploded, the o-rings on the Space 
> Shuttle tank partially eroded in previous 
> launches, something they were never expected to 
> do, or designed to do. Quoting Feynman, "What Do 
> You Care What Other People Think?," p. 244:
>
> . . . in flight 51-C, it was noted that the 
> erosion depth was only one-third of the radius. 
> It had been noted in an experiment cutting the 
> ring that cutting it as deep as one radius was 
> necessary before the ring failed. Instead of 
> being very concerned that varia­tions of poorly 
> understood conditions might reasonably create a 
> deeper erosion this time, it was asserted there was "a safety factor of 
> three."
>
> This is a strange use of the engineer's term 
> "safety factor." If a bridge is built to 
> withstand a certain load with­out the beams 
> permanently deforming, cracking, or break­ing, it 
> may be designed for the materials used to 
> actually stand up under three times the load. 
> This "safety factor" is to allow for uncertain 
> excesses of load, or unknown extra loads, or 
> weaknesses in the material that might have 
> unex­pected flaws, et cetera. But if the expected 
> load comes on to the new bridge and a crack 
> appears in a beam, this is a failure of the 
> design. There was no safety factor at all, even 
> though the bridge did not actually collapse 
> because the crack only went one-third of the way 
> through the beam. The O-rings of the solid rocket 
> boosters were not designed to erode. Erosion was 
> a clue that something was wrong. Erosion was not 
> something from which safety could be inferred.
>
> There was no way, without full understanding, 
> that one could have confidence that conditions 
> the next time might not produce erosion three 
> times more severe than the time before. 
> Nevertheless, officials fooled themselves into 
> thinking they had such understanding and 
> confidence, in spite of the peculiar variations 
> from case to case. A mathematical model was made 
> to calculate erosion. This was a model based not 
> on physical understanding but on empirical curve fitting. . . ."
>
>
> [This gives empirical curve fitting a bad name . . .]
>
> - Jed
>
>
>   

[Vo]:BP had 760 violations while Exxon had only 1

[Jed Rothwell]

Jon Stewart on the Daily Show quoted an interview 
with BP managing director Bob Dudley, conducted 
by George Stephanopoulos. Apparently, in the last 
3 years, BP's facilities have been cited by OSHA 
for "760 egregious, willful safety violations." This compares to:


Sunoco 8
ConocoPhillips 8
Citago 2
Exxon 1

See:

http://www.columbusalive.com/live/content/features/stories/2010/06/03/the-daily-show-the-spilling-fields.html

This does not surprise me. When you look into the 
history of severe industrial accidents and 
catastrophes such as the Titanic sinking, the 
Challenger explosion, and the accidents at Three 
Mile Island or Brown's Ferry, you usually find 
precursor events such as smaller accidents or 
close calls. You find incompetence or criminal 
mismanagement. You might say that accidents don't happen by accident.


Here is an example of a close-call that should 
never have happened, and an example of muddled 
thinking in upper management. Before the 
Challenger exploded, the o-rings on the Space 
Shuttle tank partially eroded in previous 
launches, something they were never expected to 
do, or designed to do. Quoting Feynman, "What Do 
You Care What Other People Think?," p. 244:


. . . in flight 51-C, it was noted that the 
erosion depth was only one-third of the radius. 
It had been noted in an experiment cutting the 
ring that cutting it as deep as one radius was 
necessary before the ring failed. Instead of 
being very concerned that varia­tions of poorly 
understood conditions might reasonably create a 
deeper erosion this time, it was asserted there was "a safety factor of three."


This is a strange use of the engineer's term 
"safety factor." If a bridge is built to 
withstand a certain load with­out the beams 
permanently deforming, cracking, or break­ing, it 
may be designed for the materials used to 
actually stand up under three times the load. 
This "safety factor" is to allow for uncertain 
excesses of load, or unknown extra loads, or 
weaknesses in the material that might have 
unex­pected flaws, et cetera. But if the expected 
load comes on to the new bridge and a crack 
appears in a beam, this is a failure of the 
design. There was no safety factor at all, even 
though the bridge did not actually collapse 
because the crack only went one-third of the way 
through the beam. The O-rings of the solid rocket 
boosters were not designed to erode. Erosion was 
a clue that something was wrong. Erosion was not 
something from which safety could be inferred.


There was no way, without full understanding, 
that one could have confidence that conditions 
the next time might not produce erosion three 
times more severe than the time before. 
Nevertheless, officials fooled themselves into 
thinking they had such understanding and 
confidence, in spite of the peculiar variations 
from case to case. A mathematical model was made 
to calculate erosion. This was a model based not 
on physical understanding but on empirical curve fitting. . . ."



[This gives empirical curve fitting a bad name . . .]

- Jed

[Vo]:BP Electro-conversion EMHD Generation?

[Roarty, Francis X]

Scott,
HSG thread agrees with your hunch 
http://forum.hydrino.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=259&sid=70e984ef95d881762c23a4436223a47c
Re: What Is BLP's CIHT Miracle?

[cid:image001.gif@01CAF5A2.E5ED6D50]by
 Wesley Bruce on May 17th, 2010, 3:23 am
My hunch is that its a hydrodynamics based system with integral cooling. 
Magetohydrodynamics occurs when a dynamic charged fluid moves through a field. 
Currents flow and can be tapped to a load. There are power-plants based on this 
technology already, some are large, some are small and some a tiny. There are 
pumps and even propulsion systems. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamics
There is a variant called an electrohydrodynamic power-plant where the magnetic 
fields are replaced with electrostatic charges and self induced field effects 
in certain materials. The blacklight reaction occurs in a hot plasma and heats 
that plasma. With the right geometry you can pinch that plasma biasing it like 
a jet or rocket to flow in a given direction. If you only take out the 
additional energy added by the hydrinos creation you have a sustainable flow 
you can loop back to the start. You take the energy out by passing the hot fast 
flow past a set of coils. Essentially this is a transformer with one set of 
current elements being wires and the other being a plasma flow. This would make 
CIHT Chemical Ion Hydrodynamic Turbine or Transformer. Ion could be ionic. The 
active hydrino phase would be one one side of the loop and the cooler 
regenerator on the other side of the loop. This would be almost solid state 
with only the injection of new hydrogen and the removal of hydri!
 nos.
It would need to be cooled a little but its a direct plasma motion to electric 
current motion conversion not a heat engine. This it would have thermodynamic 
limits but not Carnot efficiency limits. All cooling would be integral to the 
underfloor unit so the radiator is not missing its just subsumed within the 
CIHT volume.
In all likelihood a quantity of units would be packed in parallel with in the 
box. They would run continuously. Stopping starting the loop and charging and 
unchanging is inefficient. This explains the hybrid talk. Vehicles have an 
uneven power demand but a hydrodynamic power-plant has a preference for 
constant steady state flat output operation.
I may be wrong but it fits the claims, the description and the properties of a 
hydrogen hydrino reaction.
Every motor has a corresponding pump and every pump a motor. Ion based 
hydrodynamic pumps are standard in some lab equipment and remember that's Dr 
Randell Mills background.






Wm. Scott Smith

Sat, 20 Mar 2010 09:37:03 -0700

> The new documents have no stated authroship. The style of writing suggest

> that they are lifted from third-party technical reports, somewhat in the

> style of descriptions in a patent disclosure.







I think Published Patent Text is Public Domain--Do any of you really know?  I

have thought seriously about using some description of ZPE and its history from

these sources.







> A third document discusses a tecnology called CIHT which produces

> electricity directly from the BLP reaction without a thermal-electric

> converstion system. The context is BLP for automobiles,with a projected

> performance of 1500 miles on a litr to water, or 2500 miles on a 20 liter,

> 100 atm hydrogen tank. Distressingly, only the barest hints at the CHIT

> technology are given.





This sounds like Electromagnetic Hydrodyamic Drive.  An electrically-conducting

ionized gas is propelled through a strong magnetic field inducing a current

that across the flow and across the magnetic field lines.  I have often

wondered if this approach should have been used in the exhaust pipe to replace

the alternator in a car!  It would also make the engine work harder, but might

be more efficient.







Scott


<>

[Vo]:ground views of over 100 .1-.5 km shallow (ice comet fragment bursts) craters, Bajada del Diablo, Argentina (.78-.13 Ma BP) [42.87 S 67.47 W] Rogelio D Acevedo et al, Geomorphology 2009 Sept: Ric

[Rich Murray]

ground views of over 100 .1-.5 km shallow (ice comet fragment bursts) craters, 
Bajada del Diablo, Argentina (.78-.13 Ma BP) [42.87 S 67.47 W] Rogelio D 
Acevedo et al, Geomorphology 2009 Sept: Rich Murray 2010.03.28 
http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.htm

Saturday, March 27, 2010

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/47
___


It's a pleasure to find and share many high quality photos on
the ground, easy to find via Google Images.

They look much like what I find in all directions for 200 km
from my home in Santa Fe, New Mexico, as well as seen in
views given by Dennis Cox, California, and Pierson Barretto,
Brazil, as well as by Tim McElvain and Michael E. Davias.

[ you may have to copy and paste these URLs into your
browser ]

http://www.espacial.org/images/jpg2/bajada_diablo.jpg

27 x 15 km crater field, 0.3 to 1.0 km diameter
42 45 S  67 30 W [ 42.75 S 67.5 W ]
about .2 km resolution

500x390 63K jpg

Maximiliano C L Rocca
Rocca M. C. L. (2006). Two New Potential Meteorite
Impact Sites in Chubut Province, Argentina.
Publicado en inglés en Meteoritics and Planetary Science
(MAPS) Vol. 41 (8), Supplement, p.A152, 2006.
Trabajo presentado en el 69th Annual Meeting de la
Meteoritical Society, Zurich, Suiza, Agosto 2006.

http://www.national-geographic.cz/assets/veda-a-vesmir/obr1_bajada_del_diablo.jpg

man in large shallow dark crater
512x367 53K jpg

http://d.yimg.com/i/ng/ne/afp/20090908/19/741448635-campo-crateres-argentina-abre-puerta-investigaciones-cientificas.jpg

man in large shallow dark crater
437 x 313 - 25k - jpg

http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/blogwild/2009/09/mega-meteorite-mystery.html

3 images -- within the blog article, right click each photo to
Save, or select, Open in a new window, to access larger
views, which can also be right clicked to Save

two men, dark green and dark red pants, by far edge of flat
center of crater, with broken dark rocks, up to 2 m size,
with higher crater rim of lighter rocks
608 x 456 - 139k - jpg

full screen view of Rogelio Acevedo [ dark green pants ]
at top rim edge of large crater, with dark flat center behind
and below him, then the less high opposite crater rim of
lighter color rock, curving around behind him on the right side
of the view, with view across plain to far mountains [ south ? ]
-- at his feet the rocks are about .3 to 2 m size
and "volcanic", blue-black mixed with red

very large full screen view of man with red pants with metal
detector at edge of flat crater center of dark gravel-like
pebbles, this side of the crater rim with a variety of sizes and
types of "volcanic" dark, red, grey, and white rocks, mixed
jagged and rounded

September 11, 2009 4:22 PM
Megameteorite Mystery
Posted by Amy Bucci -- Blogwild Contributor

National Geographic staffer Fabio Amador shared some news
about one of our National Geographic Society/Waitt grantees,
Rogelio Acevedo, a geologist from the Centro Austral de
Investiggaciones Cientificas in Argentina. [ in green pants ].

In a remote region of Patagonia, enormous craters measuring
up to 500 meters wide and 50 meters in depth could be
evidence to a bombardment of meteorites.
This meteoroid impact field, the largest in the southern
hemisphere, is of extreme interest for Dr. Acevedo.
This site, call Bajada del Diablo or Devil's Descent, contains
more than one hundred impact craters spread over 400
square kilometers.

Curiously, no meteorites have ever been found, but Acevedo
and his team will be traveling there this October in hopes to
solve the mystery by studying petrographic and mineralogic
marks on the rocks.
We'll be sure to update everyone when the team returns!

www.lanacion.com.ar/anexos/fotos/32/1050232.jpg

444x269 44K jpg

Below is the same image (scroll down) at:

www.tomamateyavivate.com.ar/2009/08/

distance view in an article of large shallow light grey and tan
crater past foreground slope with bushes
___


[ writen 2009.11.13 ]

My goal as a conscientious geology amateur is to stimulate
exploration of remarkable research opportunities by freely
providing convenient information and my own observations,
creative conjectures, and visions.


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hRa6u8O0ZprE7dF10g8FMNv1ERig

Patagonia site of world's biggest crater field: study

(AFP) - (AFP) - Sep 8, 2009 - 19 hours ago

BUENOS AIRES -- Argentina can lay claim to the world's
largest crater field, a volcanic area in Patagonia known as the
"Devil's Slope," according to a study released Tuesday.

With  400 square kilometers (154 square miles), the over
100 shallow craters are 100-500 m wide, 30-50 m deep.

On Sept 9, 2009,

Jason Utas posted, "...There are quite literally hundreds
(if not thousands) of elongate depressions that are quite easily
visible from the air... literally thousands of square kilometers...

Re: [Vo]:BP Electro-conversion EMHD Generation?

[Jed Rothwell]

Wm. Scott Smith wrote:

>
> This sounds like Electromagnetic Hydrodyamic Drive.
>

a.k.a. magnetohydrodynamics (MHD).

- Jed

[Vo]:BP Electro-conversion EMHD Generation?

[Wm. Scott Smith]

Mike & Group:
 

> The new documents have no stated authroship. The style of writing suggest 
> that they are lifted from third-party technical reports, somewhat in the 
> style of descriptions in a patent disclosure. 

 

I think Published Patent Text is Public Domain--Do any of you really know?  I 
have thought seriously about using some description of ZPE and its history from 
these sources.

 

> A third document discusses a tecnology called CIHT which produces 
> electricity directly from the BLP reaction without a thermal-electric 
> converstion system. The context is BLP for automobiles,with a projected 
> performance of 1500 miles on a litr to water, or 2500 miles on a 20 liter, 
> 100 atm hydrogen tank. Distressingly, only the barest hints at the CHIT 
> technology are given.


This sounds like Electromagnetic Hydrodyamic Drive.  An electrically-conducting 
ionized gas is propelled through a strong magnetic field inducing a current 
that across the flow and across the magnetic field lines.  I have often 
wondered if this approach should have been used in the exhaust pipe to replace 
the alternator in a car!  It would also make the engine work harder, but might 
be more efficient.

 

Scott

 

  
_
Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your 
inbox.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?ocid=PID27925::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:032010_2

[Vo]:awesome evidence (Google Earth images, stereo pairs, some videos) from Mexico to Canada for 500 km comet rubble pile air impacts 12950 BP --Dennis Cox: Rich Murray 2010.01.13

[Rich Murray]

awesome evidence (Google Earth images, stereo pairs, some videos) from 
Mexico to Canada for 500 km comet rubble pile air impacts 12950 BP --Dennis 
Cox: Rich Murray 2010.01.13

http://rmforall.blogspot.com/2010_01_01_archive.htm
Wednesday, January 13, 2010
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/astrodeep/message/35
_


December 16, 2009 at 2:32 pm

http://anthropology.net/2009/12/16/more-clovis-comet-debate-and-a-response-from-dr-richard-firestone-2/#comment-15812

craterhunter added a new comment to the post More Clovis
Comet Debate and a Response from Dr.Richard Firestone.

craterhunter said on More Clovis Comet Debate and
a Response from Dr.Richard Firestone

January 10, 2010 at 2:27 pm

If it is ok to take a firm stand on one side of the debate, or the other,
I'll cast my lot with Dr. Firestone, and friends.
I was trained to do battle damage assessment in the military.
And it has been an interest ever since.
A long time ago, when the first LandSat images became available to
the general public, I noticed some explosive blast effects in the
southwest US, and central Mexico that couldn't be believably
explained by standard theory in the light of the new hi-res
satellite images.
At the time I knew nothing of any work on the
Younger Dryas cooling.
And it was long before anyone had proposed fragmented
comet impacts.
But it was a wonderful conundrum.
I knew I was looking at the ground effects of an unimaginably
violent event that flew in the face everything I had ever learned.
And I knew of no natural energy release to account for them.
For that matter I knew of no kind of natural energy release at all
that could do what I was seeing.
The ground effects, and blast effected materials, I had noticed all
seemed to point to something that happened around the end of the
last Ice age.
And, when I learned of work on the Younger Dryas Boundary layer,
and the nano-diamonds R.B. Firestone et al, and others had found
there, I realized they confirmed some of what I had found.
It confirmed, if nothing else, that an event of the level of destruction
I was looking at did indeed happen.
And recently enough too.

From what I can see R.B. Firestone et al are spot on.

There is no end to the theories related to to the so called
Younger Dryas impact event.
Some are good, and some not so good.
And I've no doubt, you have heard them all by now.
But here's a fresh viewpoint that looks at the actual ground effects of
such an event from a fluid mechanics / blast analysis point of view:

http://sites.google.com/site/dragonstormproject/

Dennis Cox -- awesome site with hundreds of quality Google Earth
photos, some stereo images, and a few short videos


http://craterhunter.wordpress.com/the-planetary-scaring-of-the-younger-dryas-impact-event/the-benivides-impact-structure/

A CATASTROPHE OF COMETS
THE GEOPHYSICAL WORLD ACORDING TO ME,
AND A FEW FOLKS I HAPPEN TO AGREE WITH

The Benavides Impact Structure
The explosive process that did this has never been studied before.

The semi circular ring of  The Benavides Impact Structure is 17 miles
wide.
Just accros the border from Terlingua, Texas, and Big Bend
National Park, USA.
The perfect semi-circle was the first anomalous land form I noticed
in the satelite images.
It was obvious that it is the result of a violent explosive event that
standard theory can't properly describe.
And my obsessive curiosity wouldn't let me leave it alone.

The maps show this area to be volcanic due to the melt formations.
But there is no volcanic vent here so the violence did not come from
below.
The 17 mile ring, as well as the smaller, overlapping, 8 mile wide
impressions are all perfect circles incised into the surface from above.
The mega-breccias and ignimbrites outside the structure were blown
there by a great force of heat and pressure which scoured everything
from inside the circles and cut into the surface like a giant cookie cutter.
And the heat inside the circles was enough to re-weld the fractures
in the rock.

Here we begin to see some of the clear evidence of the predominant
southeast to morthwest direction of the impact firestorm in the
directional nature of the breccias, and other blast effected materials
of this structure.

Outside of the southeast edge of the structure, the pressure driven,
blast effected, materials were thrown into the super-sonic impact
wind so they piled up outside the compression wave of the explosion
in a standing wave of mega breccias

The breccias are heaped 800 to 1000 ft high.

On the opposite side, outside of the northwest edge of the  structure
are repeated blankets of ejecta, and ignimgrites thrown down wind
10 miles, or more.

The melted material did not come out of the ground.
There is no vent here.
Whatever the heat source may have been it was not volcanic.
The melt blankets of ejecta, consist of the original surface terrain,
flash melted from above, and quickly blown off, and away,
f

[VO]: OT: BP Alaska Pipeline shutdown ??

[RC Macaulay]

Howdy Vorts..
 
Why do I get the feeling tha my chain is getting "yanked" by people a whole 
lot smarter than me?
 
Richard
 

Re: BP

[Wesley Bruce]

Steven Krivit wrote:


Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?

Hmm ...


s

It's been BP for decades here in Australia. Some have re defined it as 
meaning British Power; as in energy not empire.
BP Australia has a big chunk of our solar market. Solar hot water and 
solar cells. It runs the Asian arm of the multinational and oil is now 
only a small percent of its profit margin. The same is now true of 
Shell. Both are now making larger profits from renewables than from oil.

Re: BP

[leaking pen]

almost as bad as the deveels on deva. 
/could be worse.  could be jahks.  
On 4/2/06, Robin van Spaandonk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
In reply to  Steven Krivit's message of Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:29:06-0800:Hi,[snip]>>The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British
>>Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves in>>the inner Earth.  My guess is that the Elves run BP.  I saw a comic book>>that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and the
>>United Nations.I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more likely. ;)Regards,Robin van Spaandonkhttp://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/
Competition provides the motivation,Cooperation provides the means.-- "Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write"  Voltaire 

Re: BP

[ThomasClark123]

In a message dated 4/2/2006 4:18:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more likely. ;)Regards,Robin van Spaandonkhttp://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Competition provides the motivation,Cooperation provides the means.
If gnomes rule that's fine, since I get along with gnomes and the secret King of Germany who also lives in Switzerland. Gnomes make the best beer. 

Re: BP

[ThomasClark123]

In a message dated 4/2/2006 9:31:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The problem is that the Switz can't seem to grasp the notion they don't count anymore except for a place to store some ill gotten gains.
If global warming trends are not prevented, Switzerland will be one of the best places in Europe to live.  Food prices are high in Switzerland which prevents the illegal immigrants from staying there.  The Swiss citizens live much healthier and longer lives since they use less electrical equipment than any other European nation.   If you want to live a good healthy long life move to Switzerland.  

Re: BP

[hohlrauml6d]

-Original Message-
From: Grimer

What might appropriately be called
Financial Jounce - the precursor of
Financial Bounce perhaps, eh! 8-)

<><><><><><>

Which my wife does proficiently with her cheques!

Terry
___
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com

Re: BP

[Grimer]

At 02:59 pm 02/04/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: RC Macaulay
>
>What is a derivative?..
>
><><><><><><><>
>
>Second order fiat currency.  Q's => third . . .
>
>Turtles all the way down.
>
>Terry


What might appropriately be called 
Financial Jounce - the precursor of
Financial Bounce perhaps, eh!   8-)

Frank

Re: BP

[hohlrauml6d]

-Original Message-
From: RC Macaulay

What is a derivative?..

<><><><><><><>

Second order fiat currency.  Q's => third . . .

Turtles all the way down.

Terry
___
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com

Re: BP

[Robin van Spaandonk]

In reply to  Steven Krivit's message of Fri, 31 Mar 2006 16:29:06
-0800:
Hi,
[snip]
>>The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British 
>>Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves in 
>>the inner Earth.  My guess is that the Elves run BP.  I saw a comic book 
>>that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and the 
>>United Nations.

I think the gnomes of Zurich is a bit more likely. ;)


Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/

Competition provides the motivation,
Cooperation provides the means.

Re: BP

[Steven Krivit]

Must be true.
At 10:24 AM 3/31/2006, you wrote:
In a message dated 3/26/2006
10:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name
change to BP?

Hmm ...


s

The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that
British Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like
Elves in the inner Earth.  My guess is that the Elves run BP. 
I saw a comic book that also showed that the Elves run and control the
European Union and the United Nations. 

Re: BP

[ThomasClark123]

In a message dated 3/26/2006 10:10:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?Hmm ...s
The symbol of the green and yellow, sun like lotus flower that British Petroleum uses as its emblem, is the symbol of the Keebler like Elves in the inner Earth.  My guess is that the Elves run BP.  I saw a comic book that also showed that the Elves run and control the European Union and the United Nations. 

Re: BP

[RC Macaulay]

Krivit wrote...
Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?Howdy 
Steven,
BP is one of the world's morally corrupt enterprises with absolutely no 
redeeming values. After the explosion at the BP Amoco plant in Texas City Texas 
last year, and the public record of their operational conduct, I wrote BP off as 
a legitimate entity. Ever ask who owns and controls BPhmmm
Richard

Re: BP

[Philip Winestone]

So when BP publishes a Business Plan, it is the BPBP?

Philip.

At 07:12 PM 3/26/2006 -0800, you wrote:

Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?

Hmm ...


s

Re: BP

[leaking pen]

see, i hear bp, i think of lord baden-powell, founder of the scouts, and his motto, be prepared. 
On 3/26/06, Steven Krivit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?Hmm ...s
-- "Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write"  Voltaire 

Re: BP

[Philip Winestone]

... as opposed to CF?

Nope - I've always called it BP... Ever since I was a little nipper.

Philip.


At 07:12 PM 3/26/2006 -0800, you wrote:

Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?

Hmm ...


s

BP

[Steven Krivit]

Anybody ever think about British Petroleum's name change to BP?

Hmm ...


s