Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 1 Feb 2012 07:34:59 -0800: Hi, [snip] Especially since the implication of this is that the triggering is via resistance heating (what else could it be operating at 24 VDC?) ... and You need at least 20 V to ionize most atoms to create free electrons which can then form a negative ion. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
You see that they have answered promptly. Are you contented with the answer? In my opinion it is not justified and not reasonable to treat these gentlemen with suspicion and/or hostility, why should they pay for Rossi's disastruous PR methods? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 8:35 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Good question Peter. I have asked a number of questions on the DGT forum in the past but they do not answer consistently. The Vortex has a number of excellent members with a great deal of knowledge about many subjects. A question such as the ones that I have presented are much more likely to fall upon fertile ground here. Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 12:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune The question illuminates, not the answer (Eugene Ionesco) Why you are not asking on the DGT forum? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:15 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I have always assumed that the heating elements within the Rossi ECAT are using AC. The frequency of the current is assumed to be 60 or 50 hertz, but I do not recall anyone measuring it. One interesting possibility to consider is that the large AC magnetic field associated with this current contained within the core might be strong enough to agitate the nickel due to its magnetic properties at modest temperatures. Also, do we know how electrically conductive the core materials are? I wonder if the core net resistive value is consistent enough to carry current for heating power? What if the extra spike that we observe in the waveform can be triggered by the large magnetic field or current that flows within the core region? A lot of questions and few answers. Maybe some of them will cause a light to shine within one of our collective minds. Dave -Original Message- From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn’t be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran *Jones Beene* Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ? -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
RE: [Vo]:Name that tune
David: Who knows what Rossi is using for the heating elements! J Things change on a weekly basis with him… IIRC, earlier last year, Rossi said they used a “Programmable Lighting Controller”… PLC. However, that acronym has different meanings; to most in the USA, PLC stands for “Programmable LOGIC/LADDER Controller”. There was a lot of discussion on this very topic within the Collective the first half of 2011, so you might want to do a Search for articles using various keywords (PLC, ‘resistive element’, ‘band heater’. We covered many different ideas, including using one of the heating elements to form an E-field within the core… passing a current between the two heating elements… we can get pretty creative!! J Here are some link to Threads which cover the topic…. But be sure to scan entire posting as some of the relevant info is further down in the posting, in sections being referenced… http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51041.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49522.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46416.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49529.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51010.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46322.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg52470.html -Mark From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:36 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune Good question Peter. I have asked a number of questions on the DGT forum in the past but they do not answer consistently. The Vortex has a number of excellent members with a great deal of knowledge about many subjects. A question such as the ones that I have presented are much more likely to fall upon fertile ground here. Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 12:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune The question illuminates, not the answer (Eugene Ionesco) Why you are not asking on the DGT forum? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:15 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I have always assumed that the heating elements within the Rossi ECAT are using AC. The frequency of the current is assumed to be 60 or 50 hertz, but I do not recall anyone measuring it. One interesting possibility to consider is that the large AC magnetic field associated with this current contained within the core might be strong enough to agitate the nickel due to its magnetic properties at modest temperatures. Also, do we know how electrically conductive the core materials are? I wonder if the core net resistive value is consistent enough to carry current for heating power? What if the extra spike that we observe in the waveform can be triggered by the large magnetic field or current that flows within the core region? A lot of questions and few answers. Maybe some of them will cause a light to shine within one of our collective minds. Dave -Original Message- From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn’t be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran Jones Beene Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ?
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 12:13 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: The question illuminates, not the answer (Eugene Ionesco) Why you are not asking on the DGT forum? I did and they responded: The reactor tested during such shots was equipped with a triggering mechanism, as it appears in our spec sheet. This requires DC 24V and this is a typical 230/24V AC/DC transformer. Thank you Now I wonder why they need a variac. :) T
RE: [Vo]:Name that tune
Especially since the implication of this is that the triggering is via resistance heating (what else could it be operating at 24 VDC?) ... and consequently the purpose of the variac is to vary the temperature manually via voltage into an AC/DC converter (diode and filters) instead of automatically with software - oops... ... but once again, this video is said to represent ongoing testing for optimizing the catalyst, and we have seen indications in other images of the purported controller (Arduino box) so nothing seen so far is contradictory. We wish they used RTDs instead of thermocouples but other than that ... we are entertaining one hope for the coming week. Of course, what we hope to see soon is a video of a long run, using the heat transfer fluid, and heat exchangers, where is there is no issue with steam or phase change - and it is all under computer control, indicating high but achievable COP. Correct me if I am wrong, but DGT have never claimed the long runs of Rossi where there are 4-6 hours of high heat with no input (other than 50 watts RF). Or have they? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton The reactor tested during such shots was equipped with a triggering Mechanism... This requires DC 24V and ... this is a typical 230/24V AC/DC transformer. Now I wonder why they need a variac. :) T
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
2012/2/1 Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net ... and we have seen indications in other images of the purported controller (Arduino box) Cool, so they use Arduino ! an open platform for micro-controller... good choice. good tools, open, cheap, multi-source, and enough for the job. ahh I regret to have a good interesting job... Correct me if I am wrong, but DGT have never claimed the long runs of Rossi where there are 4-6 hours of high heat with no input (other than 50 watts RF). Or have they? they have a tendency not to claim much without testing it long, then calling the boss and the PR... their video probably make the boss... talking loud a little 8 I'm sure, from their behavior and design, they have made long test, but don' expect much public talk. It would even be logical that they keep one of their old reactor/machine running for long, just to test the aging of the fuel and components, and detect long term problems... I would do that, and they seems more competent than me.
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 10:34 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but DGT have never claimed the long runs of Rossi where there are 4-6 hours of high heat with no input (other than 50 watts RF). Or have they? To my knowledge, they have never claimed to run at all without input energy. T
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
I have a great deal of confidence in DGT and their products. I think you must have misunderstood my statement if you believe that I hold them with any serious suspicion. Also no one would say that I am hostile toward themin fact I am extremely happy that they offer an alternative to the ECAT products. Where do you see that they answered my questions promptly? I would like to review that information. I think of the Vortex members as being of very high caliber and with enormous insight and that is the reason that I pose questions toward them. I understand that DGT is busy and does not have time to respond to many questions so a lot go unanswered. This does not suggest that they are incompetent, just busy. And of course they might choose not to answer many questions which would reveal trade secrets. Does this clarify the reason for my questions directed toward the collective? Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 3:49 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune You see that they have answered promptly. Are you contented with the answer? In my opinion it is not justified and not reasonable to treat these gentlemen with suspicion and/or hostility, why should they pay for Rossi's disastruous PR methods? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 8:35 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: Good question Peter. I have asked a number of questions on the DGT forum in the past but they do not answer consistently. The Vortex has a number of excellent members with a great deal of knowledge about many subjects. A question such as the ones that I have presented are much more likely to fall upon fertile ground here. Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 12:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune The question illuminates, not the answer (Eugene Ionesco) Why you are not asking on the DGT forum? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:15 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I have always assumed that the heating elements within the Rossi ECAT are using AC. The frequency of the current is assumed to be 60 or 50 hertz, but I do not recall anyone measuring it. One interesting possibility to consider is that the large AC magnetic field associated with this current contained within the core might be strong enough to agitate the nickel due to its magnetic properties at modest temperatures. Also, do we know how electrically conductive the core materials are? I wonder if the core net resistive value is consistent enough to carry current for heating power? What if the extra spike that we observe in the waveform can be triggered by the large magnetic field or current that flows within the core region? A lot of questions and few answers. Maybe some of them will cause a light to shine within one of our collective minds. Dave -Original Message- From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn’t be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran Jones Beene Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ? -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
Thanks Mark! This is excellent information that I missed since I joined to group much later. Dave -Original Message- From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 4:23 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune David: Who knows what Rossi is using for the heating elements! J Things change on a weekly basis with him… IIRC, earlier last year, Rossi said they used a “Programmable Lighting Controller”… PLC. However, that acronym has different meanings; to most in the USA, PLC stands for “Programmable LOGIC/LADDER Controller”. There was a lot of discussion on this very topic within the Collective the first half of 2011, so you might want to do a Search for articles using various keywords (PLC, ‘resistive element’, ‘band heater’. We covered many different ideas, including using one of the heating elements to form an E-field within the core… passing a current between the two heating elements… we can get pretty creative!! J Here are some link to Threads which cover the topic…. But be sure to scan entire posting as some of the relevant info is further down in the posting, in sections being referenced… http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51041.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49522.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46416.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49529.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51010.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46322.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg52470.html -Mark From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 10:36 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune Good question Peter. I have asked a number of questions on the DGT forum in the past but they do not answer consistently. The Vortex has a number of excellent members with a great deal of knowledge about many subjects. A question such as the ones that I have presented are much more likely to fall upon fertile ground here. Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 12:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune The question illuminates, not the answer (Eugene Ionesco) Why you are not asking on the DGT forum? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:15 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I have always assumed that the heating elements within the Rossi ECAT are using AC. The frequency of the current is assumed to be 60 or 50 hertz, but I do not recall anyone measuring it. One interesting possibility to consider is that the large AC magnetic field associated with this current contained within the core might be strong enough to agitate the nickel due to its magnetic properties at modest temperatures. Also, do we know how electrically conductive the core materials are? I wonder if the core net resistive value is consistent enough to carry current for heating power? What if the extra spike that we observe in the waveform can be triggered by the large magnetic field or current that flows within the core region? A lot of questions and few answers. Maybe some of them will cause a light to shine within one of our collective minds. Dave -Original Message- From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn’t be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran Jones Beene Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ?
RE: [Vo]:Name that tune
YW! -mark From: David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 9:23 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune Thanks Mark! This is excellent information that I missed since I joined to group much later. Dave -Original Message- From: Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint mailto:zeropo...@charter.net zeropo...@charter.net To: vortex-l mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 4:23 am Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune David: Who knows what Rossi is using for the heating elements! J Things change on a weekly basis with him… IIRC, earlier last year, Rossi said they used a “Programmable Lighting Controller”… PLC. However, that acronym has different meanings; to most in the USA, PLC stands for “Programmable LOGIC/LADDER Controller”. There was a lot of discussion on this very topic within the Collective the first half of 2011, so you might want to do a Search for articles using various keywords (PLC, ‘resistive element’, ‘band heater’. We covered many different ideas, including using one of the heating elements to form an E-field within the core… passing a current between the two heating elements… we can get pretty creative!! J Here are some link to Threads which cover the topic…. But be sure to scan entire posting as some of the relevant info is further down in the posting, in sections being referenced… http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51041.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51041.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49522.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49522.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46416.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46416.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49529.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg49529.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51010.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg51010.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46322.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg46322.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg52470.html http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex-l@eskimo.com/msg52470.html -Mark
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: At 1:23 in the DGT video - there is seen a blue and yellow block on the floor with wires going to the variac. What is it? An isolation (1:1) transformer is my guess. T
RE: [Vo]:Name that tune
Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ? -Original Message- From: Terry Blanton At 1:23 in the DGT video - there is seen a blue and yellow block on the floor with wires going to the variac. What is it? An isolation (1:1) transformer is my guess.
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
On Tue, Jan 31, 2012 at 6:08 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? You normally use an isolation transformer to avoid earthing the load. That way you avoid ground loops. Why they use it could be as you surmise; but, variacs are fairly rugged. Yes, there could be a lot of RF noise in the reactor. I'll ask them. T
RE: [Vo]:Name that tune
Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn't be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran Jones Beene Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ?
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
I have always assumed that the heating elements within the Rossi ECAT are using AC. The frequency of the current is assumed to be 60 or 50 hertz, but I do not recall anyone measuring it. One interesting possibility to consider is that the large AC magnetic field associated with this current contained within the core might be strong enough to agitate the nickel due to its magnetic properties at modest temperatures. Also, do we know how electrically conductive the core materials are? I wonder if the core net resistive value is consistent enough to carry current for heating power? What if the extra spike that we observe in the waveform can be triggered by the large magnetic field or current that flows within the core region? A lot of questions and few answers. Maybe some of them will cause a light to shine within one of our collective minds. Dave -Original Message- From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn’t be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran Jones Beene Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ?
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
The question illuminates, not the answer (Eugene Ionesco) Why you are not asking on the DGT forum? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:15 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I have always assumed that the heating elements within the Rossi ECAT are using AC. The frequency of the current is assumed to be 60 or 50 hertz, but I do not recall anyone measuring it. One interesting possibility to consider is that the large AC magnetic field associated with this current contained within the core might be strong enough to agitate the nickel due to its magnetic properties at modest temperatures. Also, do we know how electrically conductive the core materials are? I wonder if the core net resistive value is consistent enough to carry current for heating power? What if the extra spike that we observe in the waveform can be triggered by the large magnetic field or current that flows within the core region? A lot of questions and few answers. Maybe some of them will cause a light to shine within one of our collective minds. Dave -Original Message- From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn’t be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran *Jones Beene* Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ? -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:Name that tune
Good question Peter. I have asked a number of questions on the DGT forum in the past but they do not answer consistently. The Vortex has a number of excellent members with a great deal of knowledge about many subjects. A question such as the ones that I have presented are much more likely to fall upon fertile ground here. Dave -Original Message- From: Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Wed, Feb 1, 2012 12:19 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Name that tune The question illuminates, not the answer (Eugene Ionesco) Why you are not asking on the DGT forum? Peter On Wed, Feb 1, 2012 at 5:15 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote: I have always assumed that the heating elements within the Rossi ECAT are using AC. The frequency of the current is assumed to be 60 or 50 hertz, but I do not recall anyone measuring it. One interesting possibility to consider is that the large AC magnetic field associated with this current contained within the core might be strong enough to agitate the nickel due to its magnetic properties at modest temperatures. Also, do we know how electrically conductive the core materials are? I wonder if the core net resistive value is consistent enough to carry current for heating power? What if the extra spike that we observe in the waveform can be triggered by the large magnetic field or current that flows within the core region? A lot of questions and few answers. Maybe some of them will cause a light to shine within one of our collective minds. Dave -Original Message- From: francis froarty...@comcast.net To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Tue, Jan 31, 2012 9:56 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Name that tune Why does everyone assume the heater elements use DC? A transformer would be the easiest way to adjust the voltage or current to larger rms values and would explain the isolation transformer. The blue control box then might simply gate this AC power through the transformer for longer or shorter durations. This wouldn’t be called an RFG but it would have the same effect while simultaneously heating the reactor elements. Fran Jones Beene Tue, 31 Jan 2012 15:09:19 -0800 Mine too, and now ... the real reason for this inquiry - why do you need one? Coincidentally, as you mentioned in the preceding message, they claim NOT to use an RFG. Which technically does not mean they do not have a fair amount of RF noise in the reactor, does it? It means only that they have no dedicated RF generator. There are other reasons for having an isolation transformer than to protect your Variac and other instruments and computers from a source of disruptive electrical spikes, so it's not a smoking gun - but is there a good reason not to suspect either a spark gap or glow discharge arrangement inside the reactor somewhere? After all, if we were talking about resistance heating elements (ala AR) being your thermal input and your P-in, then an isolation transformer would not be needed, correct ? -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
