Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
Hi Eric, I have made progress and have constructed a new reactor optimized to allow low energy photons to escape. These would be unmistakable signatures of LENR without having to be so optimized to show excess heat to the extent it proves a nuclear source. I have seen transient heat bursts and I want to correlate these with emitted photons. Unfortunately, I am on a temporary hold to get myself and my little lab moved across the US to NM. Bob On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:49 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comwrote: Rossi has stated that he starts with 10 micron sized particles (since identified as a nickel powder produced from the carbonyl process), adds a catalyst (widely believed to be a nanopowder of some kind), and processes the mix in a way that leads to amplified tubercles on the surface. Thanks for the helpful clarification. I didn't realize that. The main reference I have found is Hank Mills's PESN article [1]. I'm curious where Mills got this information. It sounds like you have made a lot of progress on getting an NiH reactor set up. Have you seen anything interesting? Eric [1] http://pesn.com/2012/01/02/9601998_Defkalion_Claims_No_Problem_with_Revealing_Cold_Fusion_Catalyst/
RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
IMHO grain size and geometry of these other alloys as powders will have a major effect on their LENR activity. Fran From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 5:16 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems From: Jed Rothwell Superior for what? Conducting protons? Surely not for loading hydrogen. I have never heard that. Surely you read Ahern's Arata replication for EPRI ? He achieved better loading than the standard of 1:1 with nickel-palladium alloy (at low Pd ratio in the alloy). Many alloys which are tailored for hydrogen storage are in fact better than palladium for that single property (which is the atomic ratio of lattice atoms to hydrogen atoms) This does not meant they will be more active for LENR - only that they will absorb more atoms of hydrogen per atom of lattice. That is what they are designed for. In fact, the alloys which store the most hydrogen are most often NOT anomalous as to energy release, when further stimulated. Unfortunately, the two fields have not been systematically investigated for determining the best of both worlds. Jones
RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
Bob, Much discussion regarding micro “tubule” geometry of Rossi powders leads many of us to consider the hair like protrusions as forming nano geometry between the grains as they pack to form a bulk powder. Fran _ From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 5:50 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems -Original Message- From: Bob Cook Also I suspect that the nano Ni that is produced is pretty pure. That may be why Rossi uses it … Not sure that I follow this. Although the Rossi patent mentions nanometric and specifically a favored isotope - Rossi himself has identified his nickel supplier, and says the geometry of his powder is micron not nano (at least at that point in time). Metals (as opposed to ceramics) can seldom be reduced below 10 microns by normal Industrial methods such as ball milling - due to surface electric properties aka: “agglomeration.” That is one reason why “nano” is so special and not fully appreciated wrt metals. It simply cannot happen in normal metal processing (except with mixed ceramics like the oxides of nickel). You might do well to talk to the Ni-O “nano” suppliers, like Quantum sphere: http://www.qsinano.com/products_nanomaterials.html They will set you straight on the lack of anything truly “nano” as a metal. It must have a surface oxide. … and may be the reason other researchers do not have very good luck at getting a good reaction. No doubt that Rossi, if we can believe his results, has found something that no one else has yet been able to duplicate. It may be serendipitous, but it is not likely to be “nanometric nickel” per se. Jones
RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
From: Roarty, Francis X Bob, Much discussion regarding micro “tubule” geometry of Rossi powders leads many of us to consider the hair like protrusions as forming nano geometry between the grains as they pack to form a bulk powder. Fran The tubes could be hollow as well as in Enculescu’s image below. Does anyone have the citation for Rossi’s nickel lattice having “tubules”? Cannot find it. But check this out. http://www.science24.com/paper/11457 This is a marvelous image of what can be done, in principal, with nickel nanotubes via electroless deposition. It would not surprise me if Rossi’s supplier of nickel has used a similar technique. This particular paper is Romanian/German and has no connection to LENR that I am aware of. I wonder if Peter Gluck is aware of it? Perhaps a gram or two of this actual material should be tried in LENR, due to the possibility of entrapment of hydrogen in the tubes in one dimension, as we have discussed. As a caveat, this electroless nickel deposition technique apparently involves high phosphorous content, which could be a poison (who knows?) _ From: Jones Beene -Original Message- From: Bob Cook * Also I suspect that the nano Ni that is produced is pretty pure. That may be why Rossi uses it … Not sure that I follow this. Although the Rossi patent mentions nanometric and specifically a favored isotope - Rossi himself has identified his nickel supplier, and says the geometry of his powder is micron not nano (at least at that point in time). Metals (as opposed to ceramics) can seldom be reduced below 10 microns by normal Industrial methods such as ball milling - due to surface electric properties aka: “agglomeration.” That is one reason why “nano” is so special and not fully appreciated wrt metals. It simply cannot happen in normal metal processing (except with mixed ceramics like the oxides of nickel). You might do well to talk to the Ni-O “nano” suppliers, like Quantum sphere: http://www.qsinano.com/products_nanomaterials.html They will set you straight on the lack of anything truly “nano” as a metal. It must have a surface oxide. * … and may be the reason other researchers do not have very good luck at getting a good reaction. No doubt that Rossi, if we can believe his results, has found something that no one else has yet been able to duplicate. It may be serendipitous, but it is not likely to be “nanometric nickel” per se. Jones attachment: winmail.dat
Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
morphing through some kind of process of entropy I think you are right, Vacuum = Entropy = Uncertainty! On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Does anyone have the citation for Rossi's nickel lattice having tubules? Cannot find it. But check this out. Yes, please. If anyone has a reference to Rossi using nickel with tubules, nanotubules, nanohairs, etc., please provide it. My understanding is that he uses micron-sized nickel powder, treated in some way, and rather than something nano-. There are carbon nanotubes, of course, and Rossi, as far as anyone knows, does not use them. It's remarkably difficult to pin the precise details down and keep them pinned down. They keep on moving around and morphing through some kind of process of entropy. Eric
RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
As Eric realizes, this is a critical issue for anyone wanting to replicated Rossi. In fact, the material shown in the previous image, could indeed be called “micron sized” and one would not be dishonest. However the importance of hollow nickel tube could be the sine qua non of the Rossi scheme. Rossi has a history in his revelations, at least back when he was in full fund-raising mode, of first providing a bit too much information (inadvertently) and then backtracking later to try to minimize the damage. Thus, we often see conflicting statements which can be rationalized if one understands the history of “Rossi-speak”. This “tubule” mystery could be an exemplary example of what I am talking about. But did he actually ever say it? From: Eric Walker Does anyone have the citation for Rossi’s nickel lattice having “tubules”? Cannot find it. But check this out. Yes, please. If anyone has a reference to Rossi using nickel with tubules, nanotubules, nanohairs, etc., please provide it. My understanding is that he uses micron-sized nickel powder, treated in some way, and rather than something nano-. There are carbon nanotubes, of course, and Rossi, as far as anyone knows, does not use them. It's remarkably difficult to pin the precise details down and keep them pinned down. They keep on moving around and morphing through some kind of process of entropy. Eric
Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
Rossi has stated that he starts with 10 micron sized particles (since identified as a nickel powder produced from the carbonyl process), adds a catalyst (widely believed to be a nanopowder of some kind), and processes the mix in a way that leads to amplified tubercles on the surface. A search of tubules will not find the reference, he used tubercles. I have replicated the growth of tubercles by doing just what Rossi described. Begin with micron scale nickel powder (from the carbonyl precipitate process), add a nanopowder, mix, and heat in an oven with cycling H2, Ar, O2 process gas. The result is a porous structure of tubercles with nanowires growing from the surface. I suspect that both the nanowires and the tubercle structure are indicators that I am using similar processing of the powder mix as Rossi, but are not themselves the LENR NAE. The observation is that when processed in that manner, there are plenty of NAE somewhere. It is easy to believe that this structure (from the SEM pictures) will be rife with nanocracks as Dr. Storms suggests for the NAE. In fact, the NAE are likely to be features you cannot see under the SEM rather than the features you can see. Bob Higgins On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: As Eric realizes, this is a critical issue for anyone wanting to replicated Rossi. In fact, the material shown in the previous image, could indeed be called micron sized and one would not be dishonest. However the importance of hollow nickel tube could be the *sine qua non* of the Rossi scheme. Rossi has a history in his revelations, at least back when he was in full fund-raising mode, of first providing a bit too much information (inadvertently) and then backtracking later to try to minimize the damage. Thus, we often see conflicting statements which can be rationalized if one understands the history of Rossi-speak. This tubule mystery could be an exemplary example of what I am talking about. But did he actually ever say it? *From:* Eric Walker Does anyone have the citation for Rossi's nickel lattice having tubules? Cannot find it. But check this out. Yes, please. If anyone has a reference to Rossi using nickel with tubules, nanotubules, nanohairs, etc., please provide it. My understanding is that he uses micron-sized nickel powder, treated in some way, and rather than something nano-. There are carbon nanotubes, of course, and Rossi, as far as anyone knows, does not use them. It's remarkably difficult to pin the precise details down and keep them pinned down. They keep on moving around and morphing through some kind of process of entropy.
RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
Ah. tubercles instead of tubules . Thanks Bob From: Bob Higgins Rossi has stated that he starts with 10 micron sized particles (since identified as a nickel powder produced from the carbonyl process), adds a catalyst (widely believed to be a nanopowder of some kind), and processes the mix in a way that leads to amplified tubercles on the surface. A search of tubules will not find the reference, he used tubercles. I have replicated the growth of tubercles by doing just what Rossi described.
Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
Bob--Bob Cook here Your comments are revealing. I believe quantum systems that are big enough to handle the energy fractionation that Hagelstein identifies in his lectures are a requirement for any solid state nuclear reaction. A thermal conductor to get the heat out is also necessary. These two objectives are probably at the heart of Rossi's design. Of course the Kim BEC theory may occur at discrete locations in the Ni creating new quantum systems during the reactor operation. However maintaining such nice locations for months of operation for the BEC's to form is questionable. Bob - Original Message - From: Bob Higgins To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Bob Higgins Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 7:43 AM Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems Rossi has stated that he starts with 10 micron sized particles (since identified as a nickel powder produced from the carbonyl process), adds a catalyst (widely believed to be a nanopowder of some kind), and processes the mix in a way that leads to amplified tubercles on the surface. A search of tubules will not find the reference, he used tubercles. I have replicated the growth of tubercles by doing just what Rossi described. Begin with micron scale nickel powder (from the carbonyl precipitate process), add a nanopowder, mix, and heat in an oven with cycling H2, Ar, O2 process gas. The result is a porous structure of tubercles with nanowires growing from the surface. I suspect that both the nanowires and the tubercle structure are indicators that I am using similar processing of the powder mix as Rossi, but are not themselves the LENR NAE. The observation is that when processed in that manner, there are plenty of NAE somewhere. It is easy to believe that this structure (from the SEM pictures) will be rife with nanocracks as Dr. Storms suggests for the NAE. In fact, the NAE are likely to be features you cannot see under the SEM rather than the features you can see. Bob Higgins On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:12 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: As Eric realizes, this is a critical issue for anyone wanting to replicated Rossi. In fact, the material shown in the previous image, could indeed be called micron sized and one would not be dishonest. However the importance of hollow nickel tube could be the sine qua non of the Rossi scheme. Rossi has a history in his revelations, at least back when he was in full fund-raising mode, of first providing a bit too much information (inadvertently) and then backtracking later to try to minimize the damage. Thus, we often see conflicting statements which can be rationalized if one understands the history of Rossi-speak. This tubule mystery could be an exemplary example of what I am talking about. But did he actually ever say it? From: Eric Walker Does anyone have the citation for Rossi's nickel lattice having tubules? Cannot find it. But check this out. Yes, please. If anyone has a reference to Rossi using nickel with tubules, nanotubules, nanohairs, etc., please provide it. My understanding is that he uses micron-sized nickel powder, treated in some way, and rather than something nano-. There are carbon nanotubes, of course, and Rossi, as far as anyone knows, does not use them. It's remarkably difficult to pin the precise details down and keep them pinned down. They keep on moving around and morphing through some kind of process of entropy.
Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
Fran-- I agree fully. Bob Cook - Original Message - From: Roarty, Francis X To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, February 07, 2014 5:36 AM Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems IMHO grain size and geometry of these other alloys as powders will have a major effect on their LENR activity. Fran From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 5:16 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems From: Jed Rothwell Superior for what? Conducting protons? Surely not for loading hydrogen. I have never heard that. Surely you read Ahern's Arata replication for EPRI ? He achieved better loading than the standard of 1:1 with nickel-palladium alloy (at low Pd ratio in the alloy). Many alloys which are tailored for hydrogen storage are in fact better than palladium for that single property (which is the atomic ratio of lattice atoms to hydrogen atoms) This does not meant they will be more active for LENR - only that they will absorb more atoms of hydrogen per atom of lattice. That is what they are designed for. In fact, the alloys which store the most hydrogen are most often NOT anomalous as to energy release, when further stimulated. Unfortunately, the two fields have not been systematically investigated for determining the best of both worlds. Jones
Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
I believe that some fractionation must be taking place, but not to phonons. Phonons are contra-indicated by the experimental evidence. Phonons dissipate rapidly to heat with a decay constant that is based on the acoustic velocity. This means that the temperature will be extremely high near the nanoscale NAE, making it much higher temperature than the bulk of the reactor. It suggests that before any useful total heat is realized for the system, the NAE would burn itself out - melt, evaporate, etc. On the other hand, if the output from the NAE was fractionated to lower energy photons, then the decay constant would be based on the speed of light in the material and the deposition to heat would be spread much farther away from the NAE, allowing heat transport out of the NAE without overheating the NAE structure. The micro-explosions that have been reported are on a micron-scale, not on a nano-scale; nanoscale would be expected with phonons. The whole device melt-downs that have been reported can only happen if the NAE is not that much hotter than the bulk of the device. Photons would spread the heat away from the NAE in such a way that the meltdowns and micron-size explosions could occur. Keep in mind that Dr. Hagelstein has PRESUMED coupling to phonons in the formulation of his mathematical experiment. The formulation is not the completely general case with the best solution popping out. The general formulation is too complex to solve today, so simplifying presumptions must be made, and then the solutions are evaluated for consistency with experiment. The simplified formulation just makes it solve-able, not easy to solve. So, in this sense, Dr. Hagelstein is constructing mathematical experiments (the simplifications) and is testing the solutions to see if they match all of the experimental data. If he guesses right in his simplification (didn't leave out something important in his formulation), and finds a match to all of the experimental data, then he has a good theory. It is all based on the same original physics which cannot be solved in purely general form for the complex condensed matter environment. We may not know enough about the NAE to be able to simulate it today because we don't know what simplifications are appropriate. Bob On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: Bob--Bob Cook here Your comments are revealing. I believe quantum systems that are big enough to handle the energy fractionation that Hagelstein identifies in his lectures are a requirement for any solid state nuclear reaction. A thermal conductor to get the heat out is also necessary. These two objectives are probably at the heart of Rossi's design. Of course the Kim BEC theory may occur at discrete locations in the Ni creating new quantum systems during the reactor operation. However maintaining such nice locations for months of operation for the BEC's to form is questionable. Bob
Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 6:53 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Does anyone have the citation for Rossi’s nickel lattice having “tubules”? Cannot find it. But check this out. Yes, please. If anyone has a reference to Rossi using nickel with tubules, nanotubules, nanohairs, etc., please provide it. My understanding is that he uses micron-sized nickel powder, treated in some way, and rather than something nano-. There are carbon nanotubes, of course, and Rossi, as far as anyone knows, does not use them. It's remarkably difficult to pin the precise details down and keep them pinned down. They keep on moving around and morphing through some kind of process of entropy. Eric
Re: EXTERNAL: RE: [Vo]:MIT Course Day 5 -- NiH Systems
On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 7:43 AM, Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.comwrote: Rossi has stated that he starts with 10 micron sized particles (since identified as a nickel powder produced from the carbonyl process), adds a catalyst (widely believed to be a nanopowder of some kind), and processes the mix in a way that leads to amplified tubercles on the surface. Thanks for the helpful clarification. I didn't realize that. The main reference I have found is Hank Mills's PESN article [1]. I'm curious where Mills got this information. It sounds like you have made a lot of progress on getting an NiH reactor set up. Have you seen anything interesting? Eric [1] http://pesn.com/2012/01/02/9601998_Defkalion_Claims_No_Problem_with_Revealing_Cold_Fusion_Catalyst/
