RE: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
From: Terry Blanton * We did Bedini, shields, pivoting mags while rotating, static push-pulls, and found the magnetic field was conservative. In every case. * Heck, it's all in a warehouse (not like the one at the end of Indiana Jones) and available if anyone can come up with some idea we might have missed. There's even some capital left. Not trying to prolong your agony, but did you try the toroid as a release 'gate'? (just curious, given Steorn's claims) The main reason to do so, would be your massive system is a superior test bed (compared to Steorn) due to the strong attraction mode, and they did claim some degree of success (before reality intervened). Obviously, the power expended to a release pulse using a regular solenoid can be partially recovered (CEMF) which you have no doubt maximized and found it to come up short. . so the only advantage to a toroid, in place of a solenoid, would be that the flux (from the approaching rotor) apparently (with a good design) gets vectored 90 degrees and captured in the toroid, instead of opposed in a head-on bucking mode. The appropriate metaphor would be something like breaking the fall which many observers may understand completely (unless they are fascinated by tightrope walkers or Cirque du Soleil where it is the difference between life and death ) . In the end, it will probably still be the sad refrain: I fought the law and the law won . but who knows?
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
Never tried a toroid since we were looking for significant external fields. We did try some alternate core geometries including a horse shoe rod in a push pull attempt. The Steorn demos are not clear enough to me (including the claims) to attempt a replication. Clanzer tried but never found anything if interest, AFAIK. T
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
BTW, there's really no current flow in the solenoid due to the approaching magnet since the IGBT or MOSFET (depending on which config we were using) was turned off. Hence the bucking was not felt by the rotor. T
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:45 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone from the Vort Collective care to comment on this alleged anomalous asymmetry? The fast in slow out discussion occupied hundreds of pages in the old Steorn forum. They always involved magnetics in repulsion. I never saw a discussion on attraction. I mention this because magnets operating in repulsion tend to randomize the domains finally demagnetizing the material. It could be that the energy originally used to magnetize the material is showing up as excess energy in the process. It is also interesting to note that the force of attraction between two given magnets at a given distance is more than the force of propulsion. The two are not symmetrical. Go figure. Terry
RE: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
Real speculative but I wonder if moving magnetic fields can react with ambient 3rd body gases trapped in the material itself - not necessarily Casimir geometry but enclosed cavities of ferrous material that can be suppressed like the microwave cavity claims of delayed half lives - the effect on half lives may also be occurring to normal matter - think Hotson's epos and his variation in a quantum time units instead of my controversial ideas of nano pockets where relativistic effects occur inside a Casimir cavity. Non radioactive effects would normally go unobserved but may create an exploitable environment where timing interactions with energy balancing during these variations in the quantum time unit could exhibit excess energy rectified from the normally chaotic energy of the 3rd body gas motion. No violation of COE just a scheme to accumulate a normally un-rectifiable source of energy based on changing values of microwave suppression. It would nicely bridge the fields between OU in motors and in electrolytic cells. Regards Fran From: Terry Blanton [mailto:hohlr...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 1:40 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected propulsion= repulsion On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:13 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.commailto:hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 3:45 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.commailto:svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone from the Vort Collective care to comment on this alleged anomalous asymmetry? The fast in slow out discussion occupied hundreds of pages in the old Steorn forum. They always involved magnetics in repulsion. I never saw a discussion on attraction. I mention this because magnets operating in repulsion tend to randomize the domains finally demagnetizing the material. It could be that the energy originally used to magnetize the material is showing up as excess energy in the process. It is also interesting to note that the force of attraction between two given magnets at a given distance is more than the force of propulsion. The two are not symmetrical. Go figure. Terry
RE: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
From: Terry Blanton * I never saw a discussion on attraction. I mention this because magnets operating in repulsion tend to randomize the domains finally demagnetizing the material.. It is also interesting to note that the force of attraction between two given magnets at a given distance is more than the force of repulsion. The two are not symmetrical. Go figure. Do you know offhand how asymmetrical the two forces can ultimately be (as a rough percentage) ? Jones
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 3:02 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Do you know offhand how asymmetrical the two forces can ultimately be (as a rough percentage) ? Depends on the geometry and materials. 2 in x 2 in x 0.5 in thick N45 separated by 0.2 in yields 93 lbs pull and 55.5 lbs repulsion: http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/Calc_filles/PullAndPushBetween2RectMagnets.asp T
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
From: Roarty, Francis X * Real speculative but I wonder if moving magnetic fields can react with ambient 3rd body gases trapped in the material itself - not necessarily Casimir geometry but enclosed cavities of ferrous material that can be suppressed like the microwave cavity claims of delayed half lives - Or, alternatively if one could intentionally manufacture magnetic cores with lots of Casimir cavities - already filled with hydrogen .? The point being that hydrogen as a molecule is diamagnetic but this changes going to an ion or to monatomic or any scenario with unpaired electrons - so it could be possible to exploit that. At least this route gives one an underlying way (ZPE) to justify what would otherwise be a violation of CoE. Not sure if the route which Terry mentions - force of attraction between two given magnets at a given distance is more than the force of propulsion really provides a valid pathway to tap into ZPE. Steorn, like many experimenters, does not go back to first principles in looking for gain - but instead looks for a reported anomaly and tries to build on it in other ways. Maybe it is time to start with the Casimir cavity (for instance) as the first priority? But if not, I wonder if Steorn ever tried the toroid trick with a reciprocating NIB in attraction? They seemed to be on an promising track with toroids in the rotating device, even though there was little asymmetry to play with (apparently). As a matter of logic, it seems that a strong magnet moving towards a toroid, like they had in the rotating version, but moving perpendicular to the uncharged toroid - would be asymmetrical wrt to the release - IF - the toroid was pulse-charged at TDC (or BDC as the case may be). That seemed to be the vague principle they were trying to exploit with the rotator - vector shifting of flux into the toroid? I still do not see any underlying principle that would tap into ZPE for instance, so it could be hopeless. I never followed their forum . no regrets there, since it appeared from many reports that it was little more than a delusion which then too easily morphed into 'pint money' for a bunch of Dublin's finest pub crawlers . (hope that does not sound like jealousy) . but hey . they generated enough free input from 3rd party tinkerers to have learned something along the way - and with 'luck of the Irish' being what it is - they could have been in the right place at the right time to pull it off (so to speak). Jones
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
From Terry: From Jones Beene Do you know offhand how asymmetrical the two forces can ultimately be (as a rough percentage) ? Depends on the geometry and materials. 2 in x 2 in x 0.5 in thick N45 separated by 0.2 in yields 93 lbs pull and 55.5 lbs repulsion: http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/Calc_filles/PullAndPushBetween2RectMagnets.asp That implies a 37.5 lb push/pull differential. On the surface that appears to be an absolutely HUGE asymmetry. Obviously, there is more to this picture than a so-called 37.5 differential. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I assume your PM configurations, particularly when they were being measured in repulsive mode were spread or squished out over more rotational/angular real estate. IOW, if you added up the actual forces measured in attractive mode versus the forces measured in repulsive mode they tended to cancel each other out. Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Inquiring minds want to know! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 4:44 PM, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I assume your PM configurations, particularly when they were being measured in repulsive mode were spread or squished out over more rotational/angular real estate. I'm not sure what you mean. If you hold two mags and push them together (or try to pull them apart) in the direction of the fields with the exact same corner-to-corner geometry, these are the forces required. Go back two parent directories to: http://www.magnetsales.com/Design/Tools1.htm and play with the calculator. It's fun! I spent a lot of time on the site. T
Re: [Vo]:Blogger asks an interesting ORBO question: An apparent energy imbalance detected
On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 4:03 PM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: Not sure if the route which Terry mentions – “force of attraction between two given magnets at a given distance is more than the force of propulsion” really provides a valid pathway to tap into ZPE. I can tell you that, at the end of M International, LLC, I was given free reign to instruct the lab to perform many experiments. We did Bedini, shields, pivoting mags while rotating, static push-pulls, (And then from Dude, Where's My Car?) and found the magnetic field was conservative. In every case. Heck, it's all in a warehouse (not like the one at the end of Indiana Jones) and available if anyone can come up with some idea we might have missed. There's even some capital left. T
