Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:53:15 -0800: Hi, [snip] "I think they can be added 1 at a time. I will work it out tomorrow." ...sorry, make that Saturday. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:53:15 -0800: Hi, [snip] >Robin, > >Getting 4 protons to react with lithium at the same time seems unlikely. How >do you envision this happening with regularity? Why not simply Li(Hy-) ? I think they can be added 1 at a time. I will work it out tomorrow. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Tue, 20 Jan 2015 18:53:15 -0800: Hi, [snip] >Robin, > >Getting 4 protons to react with lithium at the same time seems unlikely. How >do you envision this happening with regularity? Why not simply Li(Hy-) ? How do you get 4 O-- ions to react with S6+ to form SO4--? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
Robin, Getting 4 protons to react with lithium at the same time seems unlikely. How do you envision this happening with regularity? Why not simply Li(Hy-) ? -Original Message- From: mix...@bigpond.com In reply to Bob Cook's message: >You say that the LiHy4 item carries a negative charge. I assume you >mean it is an negative ion. Yes. >Is the electronic configuration >you suggest 4 pairs of electrons, i.e., a total negative charge of 8 >with a positive charge of 7?
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
In reply to Bob Cook's message of Mon, 19 Jan 2015 21:11:30 -0800: Hi, [snip] >Robin-- > >You say that the LiHy4 item carries a negative charge. I assume you mean it >is an negative ion. Yes. >How do you know this? I don't. I'm hypothesizing here. However, it's obviously energetically possible, and in that regard, the ion would be extremely stable. Analogous to a sulphate ion (SO4--) only more stable. >Is the electronic configuration >you suggest 4 pairs of electrons, i.e., a total negative charge of 8 with a >positive charge of 7? Yes. Each of the 4 protons has 2 electrons, and the Li3+ at the core has none. > >It seems such a ion would be di-polar and line up preferentially in an >electric field and or a magnetic field if it has a magnetic moment. A >di-polar property would allow it to get even closer to a positive local >nucleus. This reminds me of the theory of Gullstrom involving bound >neutron tunneling that was discussed on Vortex a month or so back. Yes, I have written to him suggesting the possible role of this ion, but have had no reply. I guess he thinks I'm part of the lunatic fringe. :) BTW a neutral entity analogous to the ammonia molecule, but much smaller, may also be possible, i.e. the same thing as the tetrahedron here above, but with one of the Hy- ions removed, thus 3 protons, 6 electrons, and the Li3+. (Haven't worked out the energy for that yet.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 3:16 PM, Jones Beene wrote: Sooner or later, one or several participants is going to hit on the optimum > design which combines all of the improvements, but without jeopardizing the > high thermal gain. > I'm excited. Watching the replications feels a little bit like watching a sporting event. A very slow sporting event. I don't know anything about cricket, but I bet the feeling is like sitting through an entire test cricket match (which can last up to five days). I have read that the "test" in the name refers to a test of the players' endurance and stamina, but I bet it is also a test of the fans' endurance and stamina. Eric
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
Robin-- You say that the LiHy4 item carries a negative charge. I assume you mean it is an negative ion. How do you know this? Is the electronic configuration you suggest 4 pairs of electrons, i.e., a total negative charge of 8 with a positive charge of 7? It seems such a ion would be di-polar and line up preferentially in an electric field and or a magnetic field if it has a magnetic moment. A di-polar property would allow it to get even closer to a positive local nucleus. This reminds me of the theory of Gullstrom involving bound neutron tunneling that was discussed on Vortex a month or so back. Bob - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:38:26 -0800: Hi, [snip] The mass-energy of the displacement hole for lithium++ is measured at ~81 eV, which is a decent fit for the 3 x 27.2 = 81.6 eV (which is the exact Rydberg multiple). In short, lithium is better than a 99% fit as a Mills catalyst. But BLP has not been able to pull off this kind of simple robust experiment with lithium - despite the two decade head start. When LiAlH4 decomposes, the H- gives it's excess electron back to the metals. That results in the formation of a Li atom and H atoms essentially from the same molecule, i.e. in close proximity. This is the ideal condition for catalysis of the shrinkage reaction. I pointed this out to Mills years ago (with regard to the thermal decomposition of KH). Furthermore, the "m" of Li is 3 (as Jones pointed out) which facilitates a shrinkage from p=1 (i.e. the ground state) directly to p=4, implying that there should be lots of H[n=1/4] formed. The binding energy (proper usage) of LiHy4- (i.e. a tetrahedron comprising 4 H[n=1/4]- ions and a central Li3+ nucleus) is -193 eV, so there is a strong "incentive" for this object to form. (See http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/LiHy4-.pdf) Once formed, it carries an excess negative charge, and hence is attracted to other nuclei, facilitating nuclear reactions, because of it's small size, which allows it to get closer than normal to said nuclei. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Sun, 18 Jan 2015 09:38:26 -0800: Hi, [snip] >The mass-energy of the displacement hole for lithium++ is measured at ~81 >eV, which is a decent fit for the 3 x 27.2 = 81.6 eV (which is the exact >Rydberg multiple). In short, lithium is better than a 99% fit as a Mills >catalyst. But BLP has not been able to pull off this kind of simple robust >experiment with lithium - despite the two decade head start. When LiAlH4 decomposes, the H- gives it's excess electron back to the metals. That results in the formation of a Li atom and H atoms essentially from the same molecule, i.e. in close proximity. This is the ideal condition for catalysis of the shrinkage reaction. I pointed this out to Mills years ago (with regard to the thermal decomposition of KH). Furthermore, the "m" of Li is 3 (as Jones pointed out) which facilitates a shrinkage from p=1 (i.e. the ground state) directly to p=4, implying that there should be lots of H[n=1/4] formed. The binding energy (proper usage) of LiHy4- (i.e. a tetrahedron comprising 4 H[n=1/4]- ions and a central Li3+ nucleus) is -193 eV, so there is a strong "incentive" for this object to form. (See http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/LiHy4-.pdf) Once formed, it carries an excess negative charge, and hence is attracted to other nuclei, facilitating nuclear reactions, because of it's small size, which allows it to get closer than normal to said nuclei. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html
RE: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
From: Bob Cook Does the Li in LiOH become a Li atom with temperature at a lower temperature than it does coming from LiAlH4? Or is it ionic? I still consider that there must be a mechanism for heat transfer to keep local temperatures down and in a good reaction temperature interval. The lower temperature (300 degrees) for the LiOH case may suggest a different sized Ni particle would be desirable to react in resonance with the longer light waves at the lower temperatures. This seems to be in line with the temperatures (500 to 600 degrees C) that Jack saw his reaction occur. What other vapors (heat transfer or electrical conductors) would occur in Jack's reactor at the temperatures he is using? Does his temperature and power profiles indicate a change (reduction) of the heating element electrical circuit resistance? The sudden drops in power suggest to me a partial short in the heater element circuit is occuring. Bob - we must wait a few weeks for these questions, and others, to be answered. Many of the guys reporting these results are underfunded and have “day” jobs. They never intended to due 100% replications anyway – and what is turning up is only partially based on Parkhomov, and his was not identical to Rossi’s prior work - so they are getting less like the original over time. This is a situation which has good and bad implications. The “good” is when the change makes the experiment safer, or easier, or cheaper, or more gainful. So far there have been what appear to be a number of potentially good changes, which is unusual since design change is not recommended until everything checks out. But since Parkhomov had the initial good result without being 100% faithful, others are increasingly less reluctant to go even further afield. This could mean this reaction is more robust and foolproof than expected - but we are unsure how much of the heat anomaly remains, when the techniques become streamlined… or else things could implode if the high gain disappears. As of now, the beauty of Jack Cole’s partial replication is that gain appears to happen at lower temperature, due to the LiOH substitution, allowing the conductor to be located inside the alumina tube instead of outside. The setup of AlanG uses compression fittings which add another advantage since the sealing process does not take 3-4 days and feedthrough is easier. Combining all of these changes could be synergetic. Sooner or later, one or several participants is going to hit on the optimum design which combines all of the improvements, but without jeopardizing the high thermal gain. Jones <>
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
RE: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing butJones-- Does the Li in LiOH become a Li atom with temperature at a lower temperature than it does coming from LiAlH4? Or is it ionic? I still consider that there must be a mechanism for heat transfer to keep local temperatures down and in a good reaction temperature interval. The lower temperature (300 degrees) for the LiOH case may suggest a different sized Ni particle would be desirable to react in resonance with the longer light waves at the lower temperatures. This seems to be in line with the temperatures (500 to 600 degrees C) that Jack saw his reaction occur. What other vapors (heat transfer or electrical conductors) would occur in Jack's reactor at the temperatures he is using? Do his temperature and power profiles indicate a change (reduction) of the heating element electrical circuit resistance? The sudden drops in power suggest to me a partial short in the heater element circuit is occuring. Bob - Original Message - From: Jones Beene To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 9:10 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but OH (hydroxide) cannot remain intact. It is an anion and highly reactive. Standard chemistry says that the LiOH in Jack’s experiment reacts with the added aluminum powder to produce lithium aluminate and hydrogen. Lithium aluminate is a most interesting species in its own right, and is part of Parkhomov’s reaction too, since his cell is not purged of oxygen before sealing. Google has an entry. Jack Cole’s technique requires about four times the mass of LiOH compared to LiAlH4 to get similar amounts of hydrogen, but it is safer and can trigger at lower temps. It is not clear if the net gain over time (thermal anomaly) from secondary reactions can be made comparable to the tetrahydride, since there was leakage. This is basically a thermite-type of reaction, demonstrating that aluminum has incredible affinity for oxygen, and it is energetic, so the chemical heat must be deducted from the net heat. As a thermite type of reaction, care must be taken, as there is always a risk of runaway. But the hydrogen forming reaction happens at moderate added temperature, perhaps 300 degrees lower than the tetrahydride. Thus, the resistance wire can be internal to the tube – and much less power applied to the cell. Hats off to Jack Cole - who has arguably made not one, but two, major advances in the process of understanding this thermal anomaly; which follows from making it accessible to everyone who has basic Laboratory and ceramic fabrication skills. Potters rule ? Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration ?? Indeed, this seems to be more indication of the start of a “replication epidemic” which is about to go viral, as we speak… From: Axil Axil The use of Lithium hydroxide as the secret sauce shows that OH will work as a Nanoplasmonic dielectric insulator almost as well as H in the production of SPPs. There may be nothing magical about H in the LENR process. As long as the gaseous compound is dielectric, things seem to work. OH does not decompose at low temperatures so it is fair to say that OH remains in tack as a molecule throughout Jack Cole's Hot cat replication experiment. I doubt that any pure hydrogen molecules like DDL form when oxygen in a component of the reactor core gas environment Jones Beene wrote: The element Lithium appears in LENR from the start. P&F and many others used lithium hydroxide as electrolyte. Now this element is poised to take center stage. But 25 years after its first appearance, there is no certainty whether the role of lithium is as a necessary ingredient or is merely optional; and there is no certainty whether it is a reactant, catalyst, electrochemical facilitator, or simply providing hydrogen transport. Not to mention the “hole” which inspired the title of this post. This would be the Rydberg IP hole, which exists when two of the three electrons of a lithium atom are displaced (which can be temporary). The mass-energy of the displacement hole for lithium++ is measured at ~81 eV, which is a decent fit for the 3 x 27.2 = 81.6 eV (which is the exact Rydberg multiple). In short, lithium is better than a 99% fit as a Mills catalyst. But BLP has not been able to pull off this kind of simple robust experiment with lithium – despite the two decade head start. Best of all, when we have an alloy of LiAlH4, the 81+ eV catalytic-hole can arguably appear simply as a result of resonant spatial displacement of electrons, due to heat. This temporary resonance hole can happen with LiOH which appears to be a nice contribution from Jack Cole (assuming his result is replicated). LiOH would eliminate much of the risk of running this experiment. This should be top priority for replicators: does LiOH work almost as well? Ros
RE: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
OH (hydroxide) cannot remain intact. It is an anion and highly reactive. Standard chemistry says that the LiOH in Jack’s experiment reacts with the added aluminum powder to produce lithium aluminate and hydrogen. Lithium aluminate is a most interesting species in its own right, and is part of Parkhomov’s reaction too, since his cell is not purged of oxygen before sealing. Google has an entry. Jack Cole’s technique requires about four times the mass of LiOH compared to LiAlH4 to get similar amounts of hydrogen, but it is safer and can trigger at lower temps. It is not clear if the net gain over time (thermal anomaly) from secondary reactions can be made comparable to the tetrahydride, since there was leakage. This is basically a thermite-type of reaction, demonstrating that aluminum has incredible affinity for oxygen, and it is energetic, so the chemical heat must be deducted from the net heat. As a thermite type of reaction, care must be taken, as there is always a risk of runaway. But the hydrogen forming reaction happens at moderate added temperature, perhaps 300 degrees lower than the tetrahydride. Thus, the resistance wire can be internal to the tube – and much less power applied to the cell. Hats off to Jack Cole - who has arguably made not one, but two, major advances in the process of understanding this thermal anomaly; which follows from making it accessible to everyone who has basic Laboratory and ceramic fabrication skills. Potters rule ? Gamp's Law of Elemental Transfiguration ?? Indeed, this seems to be more indication of the start of a “replication epidemic” which is about to go viral, as we speak… From: Axil Axil The use of Lithium hydroxide as the secret sauce shows that OH will work as a Nanoplasmonic dielectric insulator almost as well as H in the production of SPPs. There may be nothing magical about H in the LENR process. As long as the gaseous compound is dielectric, things seem to work. OH does not decompose at low temperatures so it is fair to say that OH remains in tack as a molecule throughout Jack Cole's Hot cat replication experiment. I doubt that any pure hydrogen molecules like DDL form when oxygen in a component of the reactor core gas environment Jones Beene wrote: The element Lithium appears in LENR from the start. P&F and many others used lithium hydroxide as electrolyte. Now this element is poised to take center stage. But 25 years after its first appearance, there is no certainty whether the role of lithium is as a necessary ingredient or is merely optional; and there is no certainty whether it is a reactant, catalyst, electrochemical facilitator, or simply providing hydrogen transport. Not to mention the “hole” which inspired the title of this post. This would be the Rydberg IP hole, which exists when two of the three electrons of a lithium atom are displaced (which can be temporary). The mass-energy of the displacement hole for lithium++ is measured at ~81 eV, which is a decent fit for the 3 x 27.2 = 81.6 eV (which is the exact Rydberg multiple). In short, lithium is better than a 99% fit as a Mills catalyst. But BLP has not been able to pull off this kind of simple robust experiment with lithium – despite the two decade head start. Best of all, when we have an alloy of LiAlH4, the 81+ eV catalytic-hole can arguably appear simply as a result of resonant spatial displacement of electrons, due to heat. This temporary resonance hole can happen with LiOH which appears to be a nice contribution from Jack Cole (assuming his result is replicated). LiOH would eliminate much of the risk of running this experiment. This should be top priority for replicators: does LiOH work almost as well? Rossi wants us (or perhaps only the Patent office) to believe that lithium and nickel isotopic shifts provide nuclear power to the cell; but there are ample reasons to believe otherwise, and to suspect that the evidence provided is deficient. Fortunately, we may not have to wait long to find out the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth … assuming MFMP (or someone else in the US) will have similar success to Parkhomov. This reason for optimism – that the whole/hole truth is near - is that last fall, Earthtech International offered to donate isotopic analysis via XRF to the MFMP. They have an Amptek X-123SDD and have been interested in LENR since the start. The specs are here: http://www.amptek.com/products/x-123sdd-complete-x-ray-spectrometer-with-silicon-drift-detector-sdd/ This kind of XRF study was used by Mitsubishi and Technova. It will be able to determine if there are really isotopic shifts in lithium, and if natural nickel can shift to 100%Ni-62. Almost no physicist believes Rossi on the isotopic shifts, even if they are neutral on the excess heat. The problem is this. There could be slight isotopic shifts, which are consistent with QM but are grossly insufficient to provide the excess heat.
Re: [Vo]:the "hole" truth and nothing but
The use of *Lithium hydroxide as the secret sauce shows that OH will work as a Nanoplasmonic dielectric insulator almost as well as H in the production of SPPs. There may be nothing magical about H in the LENR process. As long as the gaseous compound is dielectric, things seem to work. OH does not decompose at low temperatures so it is fair to say that OH remains in tack as a molecule throughout Jack Cole's Hot cat replication experiment. I doubt that any pure hydrogen molecules like DDL form when oxygen in a component of the reactor core gas environment* On Sun, Jan 18, 2015 at 12:38 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > The element Lithium appears in LENR from the start. P&F and many others > used lithium hydroxide as electrolyte. Now this element is poised to take > center stage. > > > > But 25 years after its first appearance, there is no certainty whether the > role of lithium is as a necessary ingredient or is merely optional; and > there is no certainty whether it is a reactant, catalyst, electrochemical > facilitator, or simply providing hydrogen transport. > > > > Not to mention the “hole” which inspired the title of this post. This > would be the Rydberg IP hole, which exists when two of the three electrons > of a lithium atom are displaced (which can be temporary). > > > > The mass-energy of the displacement hole for lithium++ is measured at ~81 > eV, which is a decent fit for the 3 x 27.2 = 81.6 eV (which is the exact > Rydberg multiple). In short, lithium is better than a 99% fit as a Mills > catalyst. But BLP has not been able to pull off this kind of simple robust > experiment with lithium – despite the two decade head start. > > > > Best of all, when we have an alloy of LiAlH4, the 81+ eV catalytic-hole > can arguably appear simply as a result of resonant spatial displacement of > electrons, due to heat. This temporary resonance hole can happen with LiOH > which appears to be a nice contribution from Jack Cole (assuming his result > is replicated). LiOH would eliminate much of the risk of running this > experiment. This should be top priority for replicators: does LiOH work > almost as well? > > > > Rossi wants us (or perhaps only the Patent office) to believe that lithium > and nickel isotopic shifts provide nuclear power to the cell; but there are > ample reasons to believe otherwise, and to suspect that the evidence > provided is deficient. Fortunately, we may not have to wait long to find > out the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth … assuming MFMP > (or someone else in the US) will have similar success to Parkhomov. > > > > This reason for optimism – that the whole/hole truth is near - is that > last fall, Earthtech International offered to donate isotopic analysis via > XRF to the MFMP. They have an Amptek X-123SDD and have been interested in > LENR since the start. The specs are here: > > > > > http://www.amptek.com/products/x-123sdd-complete-x-ray-spectrometer-with-silicon-drift-detector-sdd/ > > > > This kind of XRF study was used by Mitsubishi and Technova. It will be > able to determine if there are really isotopic shifts in lithium, and if > natural nickel can shift to 100%Ni-62. Almost no physicist believes Rossi > on the isotopic shifts, even if they are neutral on the excess heat. The > problem is this. There could be slight isotopic shifts, which are > consistent with QM but are grossly insufficient to provide the excess heat. > > > > The appeal of lithium - for a nuclear reaction is that its nucleus verges > on instability, having nearly the lowest binding energies per nucleon of > all elements. The transmutation of lithium atoms to helium in a Lab > happened in 1932 and was the man-made nuclear reaction. But still, 1300C of > heat is millions of times too low to provide the energy required to > transmutation, even on the far tail of the distribution. But it is adequate > for providing an energy hole, if resonance can shift electrons around. > > > > However - If hydrogen is being converted into a dense and dark state, it > could become easier to react with lithium, in particular. Thus if slight > transmutation shows up, the underlying mechanism will require deeper > analysis. > > > > My prediction is that very slight isotopic shifts will show up in lithium > and none in nickel, and that most of the excess heat will be attributable > to dark matter formation (DDL). The reason that I'm fairly certain of this > reulst is that the Amptek X-123SDD should also be able to detect the > signature of DDL and this signature will be there even with a cold cell. > > > > Jones > > > > > > > > > > >
