Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
I wrote: Stephen. The pee exit height (PEH) of a kid aiming the stream upward to achieve contact with an electric fence allows for a solid stream as opposed to a falling gravity-accelerated stream that puts the stream in tensile stress, causing break-up into droplets. With thanks to Doc Edgerton's Strobe. http://homepage.usask.ca/~dln136/projectile/pages/module4.html "In this activity you will look at how different factors influence the motion of a projectile when it is launched at an angle. You will be looking at the effect that mass, initial velocity, and launch angle has on the projectile's maximum height, range and final velocity. As well, you will investigate which factors are influenced by the presence of air resistance." The outdoor privy of the one-room (eight grades}school where I kicked off my academic career in 1938 had a pee trough that was a bit high for the first graders. It taught the basics of projectile motion at a early age. I also learned while simultaneously using the trough that a heated argument with a classmate over who the pretty girl in the eigth grade liked the most resulted in the spraying of each other's knees and a tearful report to the teacher in front of the other 19 students. Despite all of the trials and tribulations having the distinction of being in the top 1/3 of the class for three years in a rowthere were three of us. Fred BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:Witz;Anya;; FN:Anya Witz NICKNAME: ORG:; TITLE: TEL;HOME;VOICE: TEL;WORK;VOICE: TEL;CELL;VOICE: TEL;PAGER;VOICE: TEL;HOME;FAX: TEL;WORK;FAX: ADR;HOME:;; ADR;WORK:;; URL;HOME: URL;WORK: BDAY: ANNIV: SPOUSE: FAMILY: EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] NOTE: IM;PREF;INTERNET:; IM;INTERNET:; IM;INTERNET:; VCARD_END:VCARD
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
Frederick Sparber wrote: Reminiscent of the early 1940's when a neighbor kid urinated on an electric fence,Once. My first thought on reading this was Ouch!!. It reminds me of a tale I heard of a drunk taking a leak on the third rail of the subway, for an even bigger ouch. But my second thought was, How can this work??? Something's weird here! I'm sure we all know what a stream of urine looks like -- sparkly, not smooth. And I expect we all know why: like the ubiquitous displays in science museums of a stream of falling water with a strobe light flashing on it, which freezes the stream as a line of little beads when the strobe's set just right, the stream breaks up into droplets very early -- long before it would actually hit anything. So, at the point of contact with the wire, the stream is actually a line of separate falling drops. It's not a continuous stream, at all. But for these tales to be true, the stream must conduct electricity. How can a line of disjoint drops conduct electricity? Are these stories of disastrous encounters with electric fences and third rails all apocryphal, or is there some mechanism by which current can flow through a discontiguous line of water droplets? Fred - Original Message - *From:* Frederick Sparber mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To: *vortex-l mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* 12/17/2005 5:52:07 AM *Subject:* Re: A Conductive Jet Switch? Since exploding wire technology is employed to maximize energy density, but is slow and cumbersome, why not a jet of electrolyte or metal to effect kilojoule-megajoule energy discharge of capacitor banks? For instance a pool of Lithium Hydroxide Electrolyte, D2 Gas, or D2O on top of a Cathode Pool of Mercury with an insulation-sleeved Tungsten-Tipped Anode in a sealed chamber, triggered by electro-hydraulic actuation of a plunger-orifice device in the pool? Fred
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
As the listener to a series of stories about electric fences, let me assure you, they do hurt when peed on! My grandfather did it once, and for the rest of his life, he'd pass down the family wisdom (just about the time he opened his third beer) Boy, don't ever piss on an electric fence, he would tell me. It made quite an impression on him, and I think from that point forward his interest in women was purely gallant--but that may have been because of the heart problems... The third rail is rather impressive. At 600 volts, DC, and who knows how many amps (thousands?) it is dangerous. I worked on the 4th Avenue subway reconstruction in Brooklyn in the late eighties, and we would light the tunnels with five 120V lamps in series, mounted on a paddle, with insulated leads and huge alligator clips. We always placed the return before hooking to the live rail, and you could see a spark jump as contact was made. I remember about that same time a motorman was electrocuted when he came down out of the train in a flooded section of track. We paid a lot of attention to it, and were very respectful. People do a lot of urinating in the subway tunnels, but not on the third rail! You do get an arc across a single opening, but I don't think you would get an arc at medium voltages across multiple openings in the circuit or flow. Of course at high voltages, we get incredible arcs--across wide spaces and multiple streams--like lightning, for instance. The crucial question would be what voltage? Once established, an arc will continue until such time as the space becomes too long to jump. That's the principle we utilize for electric welding. We strike the arc, and then back off slightly to create the proper conditions for the transfer of metal--although the rod held to the same welding position before an arc is struck will not create the arc-over. To a certain point, lengthening the arc increases the heat, at least to my untrained eye. As to the original question about the electric fence, a flow is needed, but it only need be a steady stream between the fence and the sensitive parts gr. Mike Wood, Cincinnati Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Frederick Sparber wrote: Reminiscent of the early 1940's when a neighbor kid urinated on an electric fence,Once. My first thought on reading this was Ouch!!. It reminds me of a tale I heard of a drunk taking a leak on the third rail of the subway, for an even bigger ouch. But my second thought was, How can this work??? Something's weird here! I'm sure we all know what a stream of urine looks like -- sparkly, not smooth. And I expect we all know why: like the ubiquitous displays in science museums of a stream of falling water with a strobe light flashing on it, which freezes the stream as a line of little beads when the strobe's set just right, the stream breaks up into droplets very early -- long before it would actually hit anything. So, at the point of contact with the wire, the stream is actually a line of separate falling drops. It's not a continuous stream, at all. But for these tales to be true, the stream must conduct electricity. How can a line of disjoint drops conduct electricity? Are these stories of disastrous encounters with electric fences and third rails all apocryphal, or is there some mechanism by which current can flow through a discontiguous line of water droplets? Fred - Original Message - *From:* Frederick Sparber mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To: *vortex-l mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* 12/17/2005 5:52:07 AM *Subject:* Re: A Conductive Jet Switch? Since exploding wire technology is employed to maximize energy density, but is slow and cumbersome, why not a jet of electrolyte or metal to effect kilojoule-megajoule energy discharge of capacitor banks? For instance a pool of Lithium Hydroxide Electrolyte, D2 Gas, or D2O on top of a Cathode Pool of Mercury with an insulation-sleeved Tungsten-Tipped Anode in a sealed chamber, triggered by electro-hydraulic actuation of a plunger-orifice device in the pool? Fred
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
Stephen. The pee exit height (PEH) of a kid aiming the stream upward to achieve contact with an electric fence allows for a solid stream as opposed to a falling gravity-accelerated stream that puts the stream in tensile stress, causing break-up into droplets. High conductivity too, if the electrolytes are up to par. Sort of an Arc de Triumph kind of thing. You can see the effect of tensile stress on a falling stream at the faucet. Fred [Original Message] From: Michael Wood, Cincinnati [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Date: 12/20/2005 2:28:47 PM Subject: Re: A Conductive Jet Switch? As the listener to a series of stories about electric fences, let me assure you, they do hurt when peed on! My grandfather did it once, and for the rest of his life, he'd pass down the family wisdom (just about the time he opened his third beer) Boy, don't ever piss on an electric fence, he would tell me. It made quite an impression on him, and I think from that point forward his interest in women was purely gallant--but that may have been because of the heart problems... The third rail is rather impressive. At 600 volts, DC, and who knows how many amps (thousands?) it is dangerous. I worked on the 4th Avenue subway reconstruction in Brooklyn in the late eighties, and we would light the tunnels with five 120V lamps in series, mounted on a paddle, with insulated leads and huge alligator clips. We always placed the return before hooking to the live rail, and you could see a spark jump as contact was made. I remember about that same time a motorman was electrocuted when he came down out of the train in a flooded section of track. We paid a lot of attention to it, and were very respectful. People do a lot of urinating in the subway tunnels, but not on the third rail! You do get an arc across a single opening, but I don't think you would get an arc at medium voltages across multiple openings in the circuit or flow. Of course at high voltages, we get incredible arcs--across wide spaces and multiple streams--like lightning, for instance. The crucial question would be what voltage? Once established, an arc will continue until such time as the space becomes too long to jump. That's the principle we utilize for electric welding. We strike the arc, and then back off slightly to create the proper conditions for the transfer of metal--although the rod held to the same welding position before an arc is struck will not create the arc-over. To a certain point, lengthening the arc increases the heat, at least to my untrained eye. As to the original question about the electric fence, a flow is needed, but it only need be a steady stream between the fence and the sensitive parts gr. Mike Wood, Cincinnati Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Frederick Sparber wrote: Reminiscent of the early 1940's when a neighbor kid urinated on an electric fence,Once. My first thought on reading this was Ouch!!. It reminds me of a tale I heard of a drunk taking a leak on the third rail of the subway, for an even bigger ouch. But my second thought was, How can this work??? Something's weird here! I'm sure we all know what a stream of urine looks like -- sparkly, not smooth. And I expect we all know why: like the ubiquitous displays in science museums of a stream of falling water with a strobe light flashing on it, which freezes the stream as a line of little beads when the strobe's set just right, the stream breaks up into droplets very early -- long before it would actually hit anything. So, at the point of contact with the wire, the stream is actually a line of separate falling drops. It's not a continuous stream, at all. But for these tales to be true, the stream must conduct electricity. How can a line of disjoint drops conduct electricity? Are these stories of disastrous encounters with electric fences and third rails all apocryphal, or is there some mechanism by which current can flow through a discontiguous line of water droplets? Fred - Original Message - *From:* Frederick Sparber mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To: *vortex-l mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* 12/17/2005 5:52:07 AM *Subject:* Re: A Conductive Jet Switch? Since exploding wire technology is employed to maximize energy density, but is slow and cumbersome, why not a jet of electrolyte or metal to effect kilojoule-megajoule energy discharge of capacitor banks? For instance a pool of Lithium Hydroxide Electrolyte, D2 Gas, or D2O on top of a Cathode Pool of Mercury with an insulation-sleeved Tungsten-Tipped Anode in a sealed chamber, triggered by electro-hydraulic actuation of a plunger-orifice device in the pool? Fred
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
Since exploding wire technology is employed to maximize energy density, but is slow and cumbersome, why not a jet of electrolyte or metal to effect kilojoule-megajoule energy discharge of capacitor banks? For instance a pool of Lithium Hydroxide Electrolyte, D2 Gas,or D2O on top of a Cathode Pool of Mercury with an insulation-sleeved Tungsten-Tipped Anode in a sealed chamber, triggered by electro-hydraulic actuation of a plunger-orifice device in the pool? Fred
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
Reminiscent of the early 1940's when a neighbor kid urinated on an electric fence,Once. Fred - Original Message - From: Frederick Sparber To: vortex-l Sent: 12/17/2005 5:52:07 AM Subject: Re: A Conductive Jet Switch? Since exploding wire technology is employed to maximize energy density, but is slow and cumbersome, why not a jet of electrolyte or metal to effect kilojoule-megajoule energy discharge of capacitor banks? For instance a pool of Lithium Hydroxide Electrolyte, D2 Gas,or D2O on top of a Cathode Pool of Mercury with an insulation-sleeved Tungsten-Tipped Anode in a sealed chamber, triggered by electro-hydraulic actuation of a plunger-orifice device in the pool? Fred
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
If such a switch work well, one couldalso use NaK or molten Lithium or such. A former vortex list member has a 50 kilojoule at ~ 1100 volts capacitor bank sitting in his barn, "available at a bargain basement price plus Shipping and Handling to a qualified researcher." We had those professional types on this list once before Bill B let it become an anything goes, forum. :-( Fred
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
TheU. K. MAGPIE fusion approach uses a circular array of exploding wires to get closer to the temperature and energy density required for hot fusion. http://dorland.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/magpie/research/introduction.html http://dorland.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/magpie/experiments/Generator.html "MAGPIE is a TeraWatt (1012 W) pulsed power generator used for dense z-pinch experiments in the Plasma Physics group at Imperial College, London." The proposed Conductive Jet Switch if configured as multiple jets should serve in place of the exploding wires. The dish sprayer at the kitchen sink if immersed facing upward below the surface in a bowl of water illustrates the point rather nicely. Fred
Re: A Conductive Jet Switch?
At 09:18 pm 17/12/2005 -0700, Fred wrote: The U. K. MAGPIE fusion approach uses a circular array of exploding wires to get closer to the temperature and energy density required for hot fusion. http://dorland.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/magpie/research/introduction.html http://dorland.pp.ph.ic.ac.uk/magpie/experiments/Generator.html Thank you for those Fred. The web pages were nicely illustrated and easy to understand. It is ironic that Stringham is likely to beat Imperial to the punch. What a contrast between Imperial's behemoth and Stringham's miracle of miniaturisation. Frank Grimer
