Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-16 Thread Bob Cook
Dave--To answer your question about reactor control I offer the following:

Light water fission reactors using U-235, U-233, and Pu-239 fissionable 
isotopes depend on thermal or relatively slow neutrons to react with those 
isotopes.  The slower the neutron the more likely it will be absorbed by one of 
these isotopes and cause it to fission.  Each fission produces more neutrons at 
high energies that are slowed down by collisions with water and other material 
in the reactor until they are thermalized--at an average energy determined by 
the temperature of the reactor.  At criticality the population of neutrons is 
steady with as many being produced as are leaking out of the reactor (not to 
enter the fuel region again) or being absorbed by materials such as control 
rods.More power is produced as the temperature is decreased because the 
average energy of the population of neutrons is reduced and the interaction 
rate  with the fissile isotopes in the reactor is increased.  If the power 
generated is not extracted from the circulating coolant the temperature goes up 
and the reaction rate (fission rate) goes down on average because the energy 
spectrum of the neutrons is higher.  This is a negative feed back called a 
negative temperature coeff. and is an inherent control feature of the power in 
the reactor.  However if the water is cooled again the power increases and 
holds the reactor at a selected average operating temperature.  Heat extracted 
from the primary coolant of the reactor by a steam generator is such a cooling 
mechanism for the primary coolant. 

The fissile isotopes also react with faster neutrons at various energies, 
however at lower probability than they do with the thermal neutrons.  Thus, 
they there are many fewer fissions caused by fast neutrons before they are 
thermalized in the reactor during normal reactor critical operation. However, 
with a rapid addition of neutron population, power can drastically increase at 
a high rate and cause a large increase of fast neutron compared to the thermal 
neutron population.  If this happens a condition of prompt criticality can 
occur and the reactor  can explode because of a high energy production rate.  
Reactors are designed to add  a poison--a control rod--to absorb neutrons if 
the rate of production--the rate of population increase--is too high.  Such 
control rod action avoids prompt criticality.  

An accident called a cold water accident can occur in reactors which adds a 
slug of cold water to the reactor and causes prompt criticality before the 
control rod system has a chance to add poison. This must be avoided to keep the 
reactor in tact.  

The various assemblies in a core produce differing amounts of power with the 
colder regions near the entering coolant producing more power than the hotter 
regions.  Thus at higher powers the differential temperature across the core is 
greater given a constant coolant flow rate.  To keep the temperatures in a core 
closer to an average temperature the flow is increased as more power is 
generated.  Fuel assemblies are loaded with differing amounts of fissile 
material depending upon the location of the fuel assembly in the core with 
higher loading in radial positions that may have a lower neutron population on 
average.  The fuel design objective is generally to create a system with even 
power generation throughout the core.  Such a condition can only be approached 
in practice and changes as fuel is depleted with operation. 

Most modern reactors include burnable poisons--for example boron--that are 
depleted as the same time the fuel is depleted.  This reduction of the poison 
in the fuel allows an increasing thermal neutron population inside the fuel 
element and thus maintains an more constant fission rate with time as the local 
fissile isotopes decrease.

Bob 
  - Original Message - 
  From: David Roberson 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:41 PM
  Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet


  You make a good point Robin.  My concept is to make one pebble first that has 
the characteristic that you wish and then to work on the complete system of 
them to end up with a good overall plan.  For instance, if a coolant is flowing 
through a large number of them, it will extract heat from the group.  I suspect 
that the geometry of the complete system can be played with so that all of them 
contribute to the net heat being extracted.  This may require that coolant be 
injected along the container sides or other structures so that none of the 
pellets is over stressed.

  I would not think that a big random pile of these devices would work properly 
due to problems with heat generation and extraction, but a good engineering 
plan should be able to solve the problems.  I would assume that a nuclear 
reactor would face similar issues with their multiple fuel rod assemblies yet 
they seem to be able to operate properly.  Perhaps one

Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-16 Thread David Roberson
Thanks Bob,

You have offered an educated description of some of the more intricate inner 
behavior of a light water fission reactor.  I had been previously introduced to 
some of the processes at work but your input is much more of the type that 
engineers understand.  It is always refreshing to be exposed to the real life 
secondary considerations that result in modifications to the original less 
sophisticated designs.

I find your information concerning the cooling factors quite interesting and 
demonstrates that where a problem exists a solution can be found.  Perhaps a 
pile of Axil pellets would not work due to the very same issues that you 
discuss as applying to nuclear reactors, whereas a well engineered geometry 
should lead to a successful design.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 4:40 am
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet



Dave--To answer your question about reactor control I offer the following:
 
Light water fission reactors using U-235, U-233, and Pu-239 fissionable 
isotopes depend on thermal or relatively slow neutrons to react with those 
isotopes.  The slower the neutron the more likely it will be absorbed by one of 
these isotopes and cause it to fission.  Each fission produces more neutrons at 
high energies that are slowed down by collisions with water and other material 
in the reactor until they are thermalized--at an average energy determined by 
the temperature of the reactor.  At criticality the population of neutrons is 
steady with as many being produced as are leaking out of the reactor (not to 
enter the fuel region again) or being absorbed by materials such as control 
rods.More power is produced as the temperature is decreased because the 
average energy of the population of neutrons is reduced and the interaction 
rate  with the fissile isotopes in the reactor is increased.  If the power 
generated is not extracted from the circulating coolant the temperature goes up 
and the reaction rate (fission rate) goes down on average because the energy 
spectrum of the neutrons is higher.  This is a negative feed back called a 
negative temperature coeff. and is an inherent control feature of the power in 
the reactor.  However if the water is cooled again the power increases and 
holds the reactor at a selected average operating temperature.  Heat extracted 
from the primary coolant of the reactor by a steam generator is such a cooling 
mechanism for the primary coolant. 
 
The fissile isotopes also react with faster neutrons at various energies, 
however at lower probability than they do with the thermal neutrons.  Thus, 
they there are many fewer fissions caused by fast neutrons before they are 
thermalized in the reactor during normal reactor critical operation. However, 
with a rapid addition of neutron population, power can drastically increase at 
a high rate and cause a large increase of fast neutron compared to the thermal 
neutron population.  If this happens a condition of prompt criticality can 
occur and the reactor  can explode because of a high energy production rate.  
Reactors are designed to add  a poison--a control rod--to absorb neutrons if 
the rate of production--the rate of population increase--is too high.  Such 
control rod action avoids prompt criticality.  
 
An accident called a cold water accident can occur in reactors which adds a 
slug of cold water to the reactor and causes prompt criticality before the 
control rod system has a chance to add poison. This must be avoided to keep the 
reactor in tact.  
 
The various assemblies in a core produce differing amounts of power with the 
colder regions near the entering coolant producing more power than the hotter 
regions.  Thus at higher powers the differential temperature across the core is 
greater given a constant coolant flow rate.  To keep the temperatures in a core 
closer to an average temperature the flow is increased as more power is 
generated.  Fuel assemblies are loaded with differing amounts of fissile 
material depending upon the location of the fuel assembly in the core with 
higher loading in radial positions that may have a lower neutron population on 
average.  The fuel design objective is generally to create a system with even 
power generation throughout the core.  Such a condition can only be approached 
in practice and changes as fuel is depleted with operation. 
 
Most modern reactors include burnable poisons--for example boron--that are 
depleted as the same time the fuel is depleted.  This reduction of the poison 
in the fuel allows an increasing thermal neutron population inside the fuel 
element and thus maintains an more constant fission rate with time as the local 
fissile isotopes decrease.
 
Bob 
  
- Original Message - 
  
From:   David   Roberson 
  
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 2:41   PM
  
Subject: Re

Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-16 Thread Axil Axil
In a TRISO pellet nuclear reactor, the pellets are passively safe. There
thermal expansion when heated to high temperatures reduces there reactivity
to such a high degree that the reactor stops of its own accord.

A pellet reactor is intrinsically safe and cannot meltdown. However, such a
reactor has other drawbacks. These drawbacks can be mitigated if a molten
salt is used as a coolant to replace helium.

In my concept of a LENR based TRISO pellet reactor, a two way thermal diode
control layer build from thermally insolating  material must be developed
to transfer heat into the pellet core only when the temperature is below
1400C. When the core reaches 1400C and above, the control layer reverses
heat flow so that heat can only flow out of the core and not into it. This
control layer is the control mechanism that stabilizes the temperature in
the reactor.

As a systems engineering requirement of the LENR TRISO pellet, this control
layer is in direct contact with the core of the pebble. It may be built
using one direction micro heat pipes(two way simplex interface) using
lithium as the heat transfer medium imbedded in the isolating layer
material where the set of heat pipes function until the temperature gets to
1400C, then the heat input set shuts down at 1400C and above. The other set
of heat micro lithium based heat pipes function in an opposite fashion
where heat above 1400C is sent to the surface of the pellet but they shut
down at temperatures lower than 1400C.

Such a LENR pellet design will be passively safe.


On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 10:23 AM, David Roberson dlrober...@aol.com wrote:

 Thanks Bob,

 You have offered an educated description of some of the more intricate
 inner behavior of a light water fission reactor.  I had been previously
 introduced to some of the processes at work but your input is much more of
 the type that engineers understand.  It is always refreshing to be exposed
 to the real life secondary considerations that result in modifications to
 the original less sophisticated designs.

 I find your information concerning the cooling factors quite interesting
 and demonstrates that where a problem exists a solution can be found.
 Perhaps a pile of Axil pellets would not work due to the very same issues
 that you discuss as applying to nuclear reactors, whereas a well engineered
 geometry should lead to a successful design.

 Dave



  -Original Message-
 From: Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 4:40 am
 Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

  Dave--To answer your question about reactor control I offer the
 following:

 Light water fission reactors using U-235, U-233, and Pu-239 fissionable
 isotopes depend on thermal or relatively slow neutrons to react with those
 isotopes.  The slower the neutron the more likely it will be absorbed by
 one of these isotopes and cause it to fission.  Each fission produces more
 neutrons at high energies that are slowed down by collisions with water and
 other material in the reactor until they are thermalized--at an average
 energy determined by the temperature of the reactor.  At criticality the
 population of neutrons is steady with as many being produced as are leaking
 out of the reactor (not to enter the fuel region again) or being absorbed
 by materials such as control rods.More power is produced as the
 temperature is decreased because the average energy of the population of
 neutrons is reduced and the interaction rate  with the fissile isotopes in
 the reactor is increased.  If the power generated is not extracted from the
 circulating coolant the temperature goes up and the reaction rate (fission
 rate) goes down on average because the energy spectrum of the neutrons is
 higher.  This is a negative feed back called a negative temperature coeff.
 and is an inherent control feature of the power in the reactor.  However if
 the water is cooled again the power increases and holds the reactor at a
 selected average operating temperature.  Heat extracted from the primary
 coolant of the reactor by a steam generator is such a cooling mechanism for
 the primary coolant.

 The fissile isotopes also react with faster neutrons at various energies,
 however at lower probability than they do with the thermal neutrons.  Thus,
 they there are many fewer fissions caused by fast neutrons before they are
 thermalized in the reactor during normal reactor critical
 operation. However, with a rapid addition of neutron population, power can
 drastically increase at a high rate and cause a large increase of fast
 neutron compared to the thermal neutron population.  If this happens a
 condition of prompt criticality can occur and the reactor  can explode
 because of a high energy production rate.  Reactors are designed to add  a
 poison--a control rod--to absorb neutrons if the rate of
 production--the rate of population increase--is too high.  Such control rod
 action avoids

Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-16 Thread Bob Cook
Dave-

The parameter that controls the LENR should extend throughout the reacting 
material and affect the reaction in a similar manner to be effective.  My guess 
is that it is temperature that changes the reaction rate as the temperatures 
rises and, then, reduces the rate, if the temperature gets to high by allowing 
the configuration of the active nano structure to change.

There may be a magnetic field that aligns active nano particles or atoms to 
promote the LENR also. And/or there may be various resonant conditions caused 
by electric or magnetic field manipulation that promote or poison the LENR.  
Any of these parameters may affect the formation of the SPP population which I 
believe is involved in the LENR intensity. I also believe there is a good heat 
transfer mechanism operating in the Ni-Li-H-Al reactor that promotes fairly 
uniform temperature profiles and hence resonant lattice vibrations and LENR.  I 
think spin energy manipulation of the nano system of atoms and transmutations 
to lower energy states is the ultimate source of energy in these reactors.  
This feature is what keeps the hard gamma radiation down with small changes in 
the nano system energy states and no hot kinetic particles.   

Who knows? These are merely guesses.  Temperature seems to be the main 
controlling parameter--at least one that the people who understand the LENR 
mechanism talk about and reveal.  The recent Russian experiment also seems to 
point to the controlling nature of the temperature.  However, resonant RF 
signals may also be important in the Russian experiment and are used to control 
it.  A separate RF noise generator could be used to shut down a reaction by 
interfering with the resonant conditions.  The heater coil windings may act as 
a source of non-resonant or resonant RF, for example.

 As Bob Higgins pointed out, the Russian experiment uses a ribbon type wire 
wound around the reactor with a gap in the middle where the windings appear to 
be further apart.  This design seems strange and must have a purpose.  The 
apparent non-univorm heating of the reactor along its length  may reflect this 
winding configuration.  It may also promote a RF pattern within the reactor 
that is necessary for resonances to occur. 

Again, who knows.

Bob 


  - Original Message - 
  From: David Roberson 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 7:23 AM
  Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet


  Thanks Bob,

  You have offered an educated description of some of the more intricate inner 
behavior of a light water fission reactor.  I had been previously introduced to 
some of the processes at work but your input is much more of the type that 
engineers understand.  It is always refreshing to be exposed to the real life 
secondary considerations that result in modifications to the original less 
sophisticated designs.

  I find your information concerning the cooling factors quite interesting and 
demonstrates that where a problem exists a solution can be found.  Perhaps a 
pile of Axil pellets would not work due to the very same issues that you 
discuss as applying to nuclear reactors, whereas a well engineered geometry 
should lead to a successful design.

  Dave







  -Original Message-
  From: Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com
  To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
  Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 4:40 am
  Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet


  Dave--To answer your question about reactor control I offer the following:

  Light water fission reactors using U-235, U-233, and Pu-239 fissionable 
isotopes depend on thermal or relatively slow neutrons to react with those 
isotopes.  The slower the neutron the more likely it will be absorbed by one of 
these isotopes and cause it to fission.  Each fission produces more neutrons at 
high energies that are slowed down by collisions with water and other material 
in the reactor until they are thermalized--at an average energy determined by 
the temperature of the reactor.  At criticality the population of neutrons is 
steady with as many being produced as are leaking out of the reactor (not to 
enter the fuel region again) or being absorbed by materials such as control 
rods.More power is produced as the temperature is decreased because the 
average energy of the population of neutrons is reduced and the interaction 
rate  with the fissile isotopes in the reactor is increased.  If the power 
generated is not extracted from the circulating coolant the temperature goes up 
and the reaction rate (fission rate) goes down on average because the energy 
spectrum of the neutrons is higher.  This is a negative feed back called a 
negative temperature coeff. and is an inherent control feature of the power in 
the reactor.  However if the water is cooled again the power increases and 
holds the reactor at a selected average operating temperature.  Heat extracted 
from the primary coolant of the reactor by a steam generator

Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-15 Thread Bob Cook
Axil-

Anything like that will cause a big utility lots of money and they will not 
want to change their existing set up.  

With so much hydrogen contained, normal chemical explosion  will become a 
safety concern. 

Large new plants of the old design will cost too much compared to new simple 
designs which will make electricity from the heat directly. 

The grid will eventually decay and be replaced by distributed small reactors to 
produce electricity with much more reliability. 

There will not be a good market for replacement parts for the old turbines and 
pumps and maintenance costs will go up for the big plants you describe.

Lastly most nuclear plants are not designed for the high temperatures that make 
the Hot Cat desirable from an electricity production standpoint.  Thermal 
electric designs are quite nice when it comes to simplicity and reliability.  
That's why NASA likes them for electricity in space.  Their major problem with 
existing powered supplies is keeping the Pu-238 out of the atmosphere. 

What you describe as a multilayer sphere would take lots of RD to come up with 
a working design.  Rossi will have a lead in the production of cheap reactors 
and likely stay ahead in terms of cost for some time.  For example, heating 
these spheres as you describe with a wave of your hand by doping to make an 
electrical conducting layer is not an off the shelf feature that I know of.

The focus of a Rossi competitor should be in the area of making electricity 
directly from the heat source.  Reliability and cost for this aspect of the 
development is where the promise lies for others trying to get into the 
business.  (The conventional nuclear power industry lost track of this 
objective and that is the main reason they are now going out of sight, becoming 
a thing of the past, much like hand cranked autos did, IMHO.) 

When I have more time I will list more problems with your TRISO cute queue 
balls. 

Bob



  
  - Original Message - 
  From: Roarty, Francis X 
  To: vortex-l@eskimo.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 4:31 AM
  Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet


  Axil,

 That is an elegant idea that makes all the construction 
difficulties worthwhile if we could actually use present reactors and 
technology to fast track adoption. I hope someone pursues this idea.

  Fran

   

  From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 11:59 PM
  To: vortex-l
  Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

   

  In the long run, Brillouin’s low energy nuclear reaction technology will beat 
out Rossi's Hot cat reactor design. But there needs to be some design upgrades  
to the Brilouin's current approach. A LENR TRISO fuel pellet design should be 
invented. Like the Hot-Cat tube design,  this pellet should be a completely 
self contained unit including nickel or tunstun micro powder and the fuel 
AlLiH4 just like Rossi's alumina reactor core tube. 

  The multi layered TRISO spherical pellet is a layered design featuring an 
inner core of fuel consisting of nickel micro-powder and AlLiH4 surrounded by a 
covering of alumina. Next, a thin coating of yttrium stabilized zirconium oxide 
covers this core, then follows a thin layer of pyrolytic carbon (PyC) to 
confine hydrogen, followed by a ceramic layer of SiC whose function is to 
further confine hydrogen at elevated temperatures and to give the TRISO 
particle a high degree of structural integrity, This LENR spherical pellet is 
about the size of a queue ball where each layer of the composite is doped to be 
electrically conductive to provide electrical heating of the alumina core.

  As in the current  Brillouin design, a very short but powerful electric pulse 
heat the pellet pile in their bed where some hundreds of thousands of particles 
take advantage of economies of scale the the utilities love so much. This 
pellet can operate at 1400C and is used to retrofit existing nuclear and fossil 
fuel generating stations using existing pumps and generators to feed the 
existing grid using the existing  grid interconnect power line network. 

  Now which design is more cost effective, 600,000 hot cats and there 
associated micro processor controls or a nuclear station like 20 gigawatt 
centralized LENR power station with a 600,000 pebble bed of dumb high 
temperature TRISO pellets. 

   


Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-15 Thread David Roberson
Axil,

What you are describing would be a form of Super Cravens Sphere.  He has shown 
that the internal temperature of one of his devices becomes elevated when it is 
embedded within a hot bath and that is pretty much what I understand as your 
thought below.  If the fuel mix were to be enhanced, in a manner such as seen 
in the Hotcat,  enough positive feedback could be designed into the pellet 
system for it to snap upwards in power production once a threshold is reached.

The amount of positive feedback can be adjusted by establishing the proper 
ratio of sphere surface area to volume.  As the pellet becomes larger the 
surface area varies as the square of the radius.  At the same time the volume 
varies with the cube of the radius.  In an ideal case that suggests that the 
feedback ratio would vary directly with radius.  If some form of insulating 
material is coated upon the outer surface the fuel volume can be reduced 
considerably.

One of the main problems that needs addressing is how to produce these pebbles 
so that they will recover to room temperature once the bath heating is 
eliminated.  A type 1 system of the type I have been simulating is restricted 
in COP to a maximum of perhaps 4.  A type 2 or 3 design would be much more 
useful with an essentially unlimited COP possible with the type 3 device.

So far the Hotcat as well as the Russian replication have been demonstrated to 
be of type 1.  I suspect that when they toyed with the amount of fuel and its 
activity they found out that it is extremely difficult to control or build a 
reactor that is type 2 or 3.  In either of these cases the magnitude of the 
positive thermal feedback is great enough to produce a negative resistance 
region within the operating temperature range.  Whether or not anyone can 
figure out how to prevent one of these devices from heading into thermal 
runaway is a question left open so far.  Both of the recent examples that we 
have seen avoid that danger at the expense of COP.

Perhaps the ideal pebble would contain a fuel mixture that automatically enters 
a mode of reduced generated power as the temperature reaches a designed value.  
This would be a form of built in negative feedback.  If anyone knows of a 
method of achieving this in a manner that can be reversed as temperature is 
reduced then they will have a true winner.

For reference:

A type 1 system has limited or no positive thermal feedback.  It will operate 
in a controlled manner at all temperature ranges and not exhibit any form of 
latch up.  This is what has been demonstrated by Rossi in the third party tests 
and the Russian replication to date.

A type 2 system has a level of thermal positive feedback that results in the 
existence of a negative resistance region somewhere within the operating 
temperature range.  One of these devices will demonstrate a snap in temperature 
once a threshold of either input power or applied external temperature is 
reached.  Some method of reduction of positive feedback must exist to prevent 
thermal destruction or damage and at the same time allow recovery once the 
drive signal is discontinued.  The geometry of the structure or perhaps a 
boiling water like heat sink could be used to this end.

A type 3 system is just a type 2 system with a beefed up amount of positive 
feedback.  The difference from a type 2 is that once the negative resistance 
region is reached by drive level or temperature input the device goes into 
thermal latch up.  If the drive is eliminated, the device will continue to 
generate internal power and some form of strong cooling must be applied in 
order to force the device to cool off.  I suppose a pebble system could be 
brought back to room temperature by spraying it with water or some other 
coolant that extracts plenty of additional heat.  From what I recall the 
earlier versions of the ECAT tended to operate in this mode since the input 
water flow rate had to be increased before the device would cool down.  A truly 
infinite COP is achieved by a device of this type and that is an important 
consideration.

The above description of system types is according to the categories that are 
demonstrated by my computer simulation models.   I have a couple of different 
simulation environments that exhibit these types of behaviors.  I am excited to 
see that both the Rossi Hotcat and the Russian replication device match my 
expectations.

Dave



 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: Roarty, Francis X francis.x.roa...@lmco.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 15, 2015 7:31 am
Subject: RE: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet



Axil,
   That is an elegant idea that makes all the construction 
difficulties worthwhile if we could actually use present reactors and 
technology to fast track adoption. I hope someone pursues this idea.
Fran
 
From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 11:59 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo

Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-15 Thread mixent
In reply to  David Roberson's message of Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:18:27 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
The amount of positive feedback can be adjusted by establishing the proper 
ratio of sphere surface area to volume.  As the pellet becomes larger the 
surface area varies as the square of the radius.  At the same time the volume 
varies with the cube of the radius.  In an ideal case that suggests that the 
feedback ratio would vary directly with radius.  If some form of insulating 
material is coated upon the outer surface the fuel volume can be reduced 
considerably.

Take into account that this is only valid for a single separate sphere. Once
they are all bundled together, heat leaving one will enter another, so in the
limit, the surface area is reduced to the external surface area of the
conglomeration.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html



Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-15 Thread David Roberson
You make a good point Robin.  My concept is to make one pebble first that has 
the characteristic that you wish and then to work on the complete system of 
them to end up with a good overall plan.  For instance, if a coolant is flowing 
through a large number of them, it will extract heat from the group.  I suspect 
that the geometry of the complete system can be played with so that all of them 
contribute to the net heat being extracted.  This may require that coolant be 
injected along the container sides or other structures so that none of the 
pellets is over stressed.

I would not think that a big random pile of these devices would work properly 
due to problems with heat generation and extraction, but a good engineering 
plan should be able to solve the problems.  I would assume that a nuclear 
reactor would face similar issues with their multiple fuel rod assemblies yet 
they seem to be able to operate properly.  Perhaps one of our reactor experts 
can help with this issue.

I am discussing a design of this type in response to the pebble concept 
mentioned by Axil.  I am not biased either for or against that idea.

Dave

 

 

 

-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Jan 15, 2015 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet


In reply to  David Roberson's message of Thu, 15 Jan 2015 10:18:27 -0500:
Hi,
[snip]
The amount of positive feedback can be adjusted by establishing the proper 
ratio of sphere surface area to volume.  As the pellet becomes larger the 
surface area varies as the square of the radius.  At the same time the volume 
varies with the cube of the radius.  In an ideal case that suggests that the 
feedback ratio would vary directly with radius.  If some form of insulating 
material is coated upon the outer surface the fuel volume can be reduced 
considerably.

Take into account that this is only valid for a single separate sphere. Once
they are all bundled together, heat leaving one will enter another, so in the
limit, the surface area is reduced to the external surface area of the
conglomeration.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html


 


RE: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet

2015-01-15 Thread Roarty, Francis X
Axil,
   That is an elegant idea that makes all the construction 
difficulties worthwhile if we could actually use present reactors and 
technology to fast track adoption. I hope someone pursues this idea.
Fran

From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 11:59 PM
To: vortex-l
Subject: EXTERNAL: [Vo]:TRISO LENR pellet


In the long run, Brillouin’s low energy nuclear reaction technology will beat 
out Rossi's Hot cat reactor design. But there needs to be some design upgrades  
to the Brilouin's current approach. A LENR TRISO fuel pellet design should be 
invented. Like the Hot-Cat tube design,  this pellet should be a completely 
self contained unit including nickel or tunstun micro powder and the fuel 
AlLiH4 just like Rossi's alumina reactor core tube.

The multi layered TRISO spherical pellet is a layered design featuring an inner 
core of fuel consisting of nickel micro-powder and AlLiH4 surrounded by a 
covering of alumina. Next, a thin coating of yttrium stabilized zirconium oxide 
covers this core, then follows a thin layer of pyrolytic carbon (PyC) to 
confine hydrogen, followed by a ceramic layer of SiC whose function is to 
further confine hydrogen at elevated temperatures and to give the TRISO 
particle a high degree of structural integrity, This LENR spherical pellet is 
about the size of a queue ball where each layer of the composite is doped to be 
electrically conductive to provide electrical heating of the alumina core.

As in the current  Brillouin design, a very short but powerful electric pulse 
heat the pellet pile in their bed where some hundreds of thousands of particles 
take advantage of economies of scale the the utilities love so much. This 
pellet can operate at 1400C and is used to retrofit existing nuclear and fossil 
fuel generating stations using existing pumps and generators to feed the 
existing grid using the existing  grid interconnect power line network.

Now which design is more cost effective, 600,000 hot cats and there associated 
micro processor controls or a nuclear station like 20 gigawatt centralized LENR 
power station with a 600,000 pebble bed of dumb high temperature TRISO pellets.