Re: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-04-11 Thread Marlene Oostryck

Hi Ronni and Susan

Thanks for all your suggestions.

I have still not been able to get an acceptable result - so obviously  
I am doing something wrong even though I have tried all sorts of  
suggestions - and am now totally confused.
I have been very busy and have not been able to focus on my iMovie/ 
iDVD recently - and I must admit to feeling very discouraged after all  
the hours I have put in.
I am off interstate for the next 3 weeks and will start afresh when I  
return.
Will talk to you then Susan about purchasing/using Toast instead of  
iDVD - and what versions you are using.


Hopefully I will be successful next time around.

Regards

Marlene Oostryck
9430 8006

On 23/03/2010, at 11:29 AM, Susan Hastings wrote:



Hi Marlene, I can get good reults blending movie files and photos  
with Ken burns effect into a single movie using iMovie, then burning  
to playable DVD with Toast. So sounds like using iDVD is where the  
problem begins. Susan


---
Susan Hastings
Mobile: 0409688004


On 23/03/2010, at 10:16 AM, Ronda Brown ro...@mac.com wrote:



Hi Marlene,

Sorry to hear you are still having problems with creating a DVD of  
a good standard.
What you are seeing sounds like Combing / Jaggies - Interlacing  
artifacts.


Did you only check the video in iDVD's Preview?
After you did Save As Disk Image of your iDVD Project, and played  
it in DVD Player, were the Combing / Jaggies as noticeable?.


Also, what size images did you use in iMovie?
768 x 576 pixels for standard video in PAL format
1024 x 576 pixels for widescreen in PAL format

Cheers,
Ronni

On 22/03/2010, at 1:06 PM, Marlene Oostryck wrote:


Hi Ronni

At last I have found some time to proceed with your instructions.  
Thank you so much for them.


The first part went well and the detail you included made it easy.
I saved a DV format of my project.

Working through iDVD was not easy but I finally got through the  
Theme part, and dropped my DV movie in.


Unfortunately when viewing the preview there is still an  
unacceptable amount of horizontal movement.


Perhaps I should accept that iMovie was designed for movies, not  
photos - even though the facility is there to include photos  
incorporating a Ken Burns effect - and that I presumed iDVD would  
burn DVDs to play on a TV screen without loss of quality - as I  
have been able to do on a PC using Photo Story 3 and a Sonic plug- 
in.


Is there any point in proceeding to burn a DVD or is the quality I  
see on the preview what I would get after burning?


Regards

Marlene Oostryck





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Re: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-03-22 Thread Ronda Brown

Hi Marlene,

Sorry to hear you are still having problems with creating a DVD of a good 
standard.
What you are seeing sounds like Combing / Jaggies - Interlacing artifacts.

Did you only check the video in iDVD's Preview?
After you did Save As Disk Image of your iDVD Project, and played it in DVD 
Player, were the Combing / Jaggies as noticeable?.

Also, what size images did you use in iMovie?
768 x 576 pixels for standard video in PAL format
1024 x 576 pixels for widescreen in PAL format

Cheers,
Ronni

On 22/03/2010, at 1:06 PM, Marlene Oostryck wrote:

 Hi Ronni
 
 At last I have found some time to proceed with your instructions. Thank you 
 so much for them.
 
 The first part went well and the detail you included made it easy.
 I saved a DV format of my project.
 
 Working through iDVD was not easy but I finally got through the Theme part, 
 and dropped my DV movie in.
 
 Unfortunately when viewing the preview there is still an unacceptable amount 
 of horizontal movement.
 
 Perhaps I should accept that iMovie was designed for movies, not photos - 
 even though the facility is there to include photos incorporating a Ken Burns 
 effect - and that I presumed iDVD would burn DVDs to play on a TV screen 
 without loss of quality - as I have been able to do on a PC using Photo Story 
 3 and a Sonic plug-in.
 
 Is there any point in proceeding to burn a DVD or is the quality I see on the 
 preview what I would get after burning?
 
 Regards
 
 Marlene Oostryck
 



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Re: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-03-22 Thread Susan Hastings


Hi Marlene, I can get good reults blending movie files and photos with  
Ken burns effect into a single movie using iMovie, then burning to  
playable DVD with Toast. So sounds like using iDVD is where the  
problem begins. Susan


---
Susan Hastings
Mobile: 0409688004


On 23/03/2010, at 10:16 AM, Ronda Brown ro...@mac.com wrote:



Hi Marlene,

Sorry to hear you are still having problems with creating a DVD of a  
good standard.
What you are seeing sounds like Combing / Jaggies - Interlacing  
artifacts.


Did you only check the video in iDVD's Preview?
After you did Save As Disk Image of your iDVD Project, and played  
it in DVD Player, were the Combing / Jaggies as noticeable?.


Also, what size images did you use in iMovie?
768 x 576 pixels for standard video in PAL format
1024 x 576 pixels for widescreen in PAL format

Cheers,
Ronni

On 22/03/2010, at 1:06 PM, Marlene Oostryck wrote:


Hi Ronni

At last I have found some time to proceed with your instructions.  
Thank you so much for them.


The first part went well and the detail you included made it easy.
I saved a DV format of my project.

Working through iDVD was not easy but I finally got through the  
Theme part, and dropped my DV movie in.


Unfortunately when viewing the preview there is still an  
unacceptable amount of horizontal movement.


Perhaps I should accept that iMovie was designed for movies, not  
photos - even though the facility is there to include photos  
incorporating a Ken Burns effect - and that I presumed iDVD would  
burn DVDs to play on a TV screen without loss of quality - as I  
have been able to do on a PC using Photo Story 3 and a Sonic plug-in.


Is there any point in proceeding to burn a DVD or is the quality I  
see on the preview what I would get after burning?


Regards

Marlene Oostryck





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Re: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-03-21 Thread Marlene Oostryck

Hi Ronni

At last I have found some time to proceed with your instructions.  
Thank you so much for them.


The first part went well and the detail you included made it easy.
I saved a DV format of my project.

Working through iDVD was not easy but I finally got through the Theme  
part, and dropped my DV movie in.


Unfortunately when viewing the preview there is still an unacceptable  
amount of horizontal movement.


Perhaps I should accept that iMovie was designed for movies, not  
photos - even though the facility is there to include photos  
incorporating a Ken Burns effect - and that I presumed iDVD would burn  
DVDs to play on a TV screen without loss of quality - as I have been  
able to do on a PC using Photo Story 3 and a Sonic plug-in.


Is there any point in proceeding to burn a DVD or is the quality I see  
on the preview what I would get after burning?


Regards

Marlene Oostryck

On 14/03/2010, at 7:05 PM, Ronda Brown wrote:


Hi Marlene,

First I'll mention a little about iMovie'09  iMovieHD ('06), just  
for your reference.
Be aware that iMovie '09 uses 'single field processing' (Interlaced)  
meaning every other horizontal line of the video is thrown out,  
which reduces the sharpness of the footage.
iMovie 06 (iMovie HD) uses ALL of the image (Progressive) to form  
the video.


If your primary workflow is editing DV clips and making DVDs, iMovie  
06 (iMovie HD) is better suited.
Your movie will arrive at iDVD in DV format, which is an ideal match  
for making a DVD: same resolution, same pixels aspect ratio, and  
original quality.


iMovie 06 (iMovie HD) and iDVD 09 is a lossless combination.

iMovie '09 is a wonderful program assuming that you're using it for  
what it was designed to do, assemble simple videos to share on the  
Internet.

-
After saying the above, it is not going to help you any as you don't  
have iMovieHD and Apple have ceased allowing it for download.
So we work with what you have, that is, your project in iMovie'09,  
best quality export to get it into iDVD  create a DVD of very good  
quality.


As I mentioned in my previous email today … DON'T Share to iDVD!  
It is destructive especially to photos.
I suggest you have three choices to get your iMovie project into  
iDVD  create your DVD.

1. Share  Media Browser - Large 720 x 540
2. Share  Export Movie - creates a MPEG-4 (.m4v) 720 x 540  Audio  
44,100 kHz
3. Share  Export Using Quicktime - gives you control over Quicktime  
Settings.


(Share always to your Movies folder, then when in iDVD you can click  
on  Media - then Movies and locate your files).


You could experiment with all the above settings, making sure that  
in iDVD you save your iDVD projects Save As Disc Image, so you can  
check before your waste any DVDs.


I would suggest, in your case, that No.3 - Share  Export Using  
Quicktime with these settings would give you the best quality DVD.

Share  Export using Quicktime
In the export window that appears,
Export: Movie to DV Stream, click Options
DV Format: DV
Video Format: PAL  (leave it at interlaced, as DVD-PAL is interlaced)
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 or 16:9 (depending on how your photos/project was  
imported)

Audio Format: 48,000 kHz

This will give you a Quicktime .dv file with Format DV, 720 x 576,  
Stereo, 48,000 kHz.


Then you can Open iDVD, bring in your Movie file, and create your DVD.

iDVD Preferences:
Projects: PAL, Encoding: Professional Quality

Once you know your project plays through correctly in iDVD.
Go to File  Save As Disc Image
You then see a window Creating your DVD
1. Prepare
2. Process Menus
3. Process Slideshows
4. Process Movies
5. Burn

After all the Rendering, encoding, processing movie, asset  
encoding,   finally

multiplexing  burning is completed, a Disc Image is created.

All this takes a long time, depending on the length of your movie.

6. Open the Disk Image and play it all the way through in DVD  
Player.app to check for any errors BEFORE you burn the Disc Image  
to a DVD-R Disc.


7. Burn at a slow speed - 2x or 4x for Single Layer DVD-R, 2x for  
Double Layer DVD+R DL. (I recommend using Verbatim DVD-R (for single  
layer)  DVD+R DL Discs (for Double Layer).


NOTE: I did a quick iMovie'09 project this afternoon, and Share to  
iDVD using No.2(Share  Export Movie - creates a MPEG-4 (.m4v) 720 x  
540  Audio 44,100 kHz)   No.3 (Share  Export Using Quicktime,  
with the settings I explained above).
Saved the iDVD project as a Disk Image, (with both projects on the  
disk image. t
Then burn't a DVD-R from the Disk Image using Toast Titanium 10, but  
you can use either the Finder or Disk Utility to burn a Disk Image  
to DVD.


I found both the .m4v  .dv with above settings produced a very good  
quality DVD when played in my DVD Player connected to TV.
Possibly the DV format was slightly better, but that could just be  
my preference, there was not much difference that I could see with  
my eyes ;-)


Hope this is helpful to you, as I would very much 

Re: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-03-14 Thread Ronda Brown
Hi Marlene,

First I'll mention a little about iMovie'09  iMovieHD ('06), just for your 
reference.
Be aware that iMovie '09 uses 'single field processing' (Interlaced) meaning 
every other horizontal line of the video is thrown out, which reduces the 
sharpness of the footage.
iMovie 06 (iMovie HD) uses ALL of the image (Progressive) to form the video.

If your primary workflow is editing DV clips and making DVDs, iMovie 06 (iMovie 
HD) is better suited.
Your movie will arrive at iDVD in DV format, which is an ideal match for making 
a DVD: same resolution, same pixels aspect ratio, and original quality.

iMovie 06 (iMovie HD) and iDVD 09 is a lossless combination.

iMovie '09 is a wonderful program assuming that you're using it for what it was 
designed to do, assemble simple videos to share on the Internet.
-
After saying the above, it is not going to help you any as you don't have 
iMovieHD and Apple have ceased allowing it for download.
So we work with what you have, that is, your project in iMovie'09, best quality 
export to get it into iDVD  create a DVD of very good quality.

As I mentioned in my previous email today … DON'T Share to iDVD! It is 
destructive especially to photos.
I suggest you have three choices to get your iMovie project into iDVD  create 
your DVD.
1. Share  Media Browser - Large 720 x 540 
2. Share  Export Movie - creates a MPEG-4 (.m4v) 720 x 540  Audio 44,100 kHz
3. Share  Export Using Quicktime - gives you control over Quicktime Settings.

(Share always to your Movies folder, then when in iDVD you can click on  
Media - then Movies and locate your files).

You could experiment with all the above settings, making sure that in iDVD you 
save your iDVD projects Save As Disc Image, so you can check before your 
waste any DVDs.

I would suggest, in your case, that No.3 - Share  Export Using Quicktime 
with these settings would give you the best quality DVD.
Share  Export using Quicktime
In the export window that appears,
Export: Movie to DV Stream, click Options
DV Format: DV
Video Format: PAL  (leave it at interlaced, as DVD-PAL is interlaced)
Aspect Ratio: 4:3 or 16:9 (depending on how your photos/project was imported)
Audio Format: 48,000 kHz

This will give you a Quicktime .dv file with Format DV, 720 x 576, Stereo, 
48,000 kHz.

Then you can Open iDVD, bring in your Movie file, and create your DVD.

iDVD Preferences:
Projects: PAL, Encoding: Professional Quality

Once you know your project plays through correctly in iDVD.
Go to File  Save As Disc Image
You then see a window Creating your DVD
1. Prepare
2. Process Menus
3. Process Slideshows
4. Process Movies
5. Burn

After all the Rendering, encoding, processing movie, asset encoding,   finally
multiplexing  burning is completed, a Disc Image is created.

All this takes a long time, depending on the length of your movie.

6. Open the Disk Image and play it all the way through in DVD Player.app to 
check for any errors BEFORE you burn the Disc Image to a DVD-R Disc.

7. Burn at a slow speed - 2x or 4x for Single Layer DVD-R, 2x for Double Layer 
DVD+R DL. (I recommend using Verbatim DVD-R (for single layer)  DVD+R DL Discs 
(for Double Layer).

NOTE: I did a quick iMovie'09 project this afternoon, and Share to iDVD using 
No.2(Share  Export Movie - creates a MPEG-4 (.m4v) 720 x 540  Audio 44,100 
kHz)   No.3 (Share  Export Using Quicktime, with the settings I explained 
above).
Saved the iDVD project as a Disk Image, (with both projects on the disk image. t
Then burn't a DVD-R from the Disk Image using Toast Titanium 10, but you can 
use either the Finder or Disk Utility to burn a Disk Image to DVD.

I found both the .m4v  .dv with above settings produced a very good quality 
DVD when played in my DVD Player connected to TV.
Possibly the DV format was slightly better, but that could just be my 
preference, there was not much difference that I could see with my eyes ;-)

Hope this is helpful to you, as I would very much like you to be able to create 
a very good quality DVD of your project.
Post back to WAMUG if you require any more assistance.

Kind Regards,
Ronni




On 14/03/2010, at 11:22 AM, Marlene Oostryck wrote:

 Hi All
 
 I have just burnt my first DVD from an iMovie project and have been really 
 disappointed with the result. (iMac 10.5.8, 2.66 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB)
 
 The image quality in iMovie is excellent but when played as a DVD on a TV 
 there are moving horizontal lines and the image quality is very poor.
 A Google search on this problem turned up 130 discussion forums on others who 
 have had similar results.
 
 The suggested solutions seem very complex:
 
 Use 1Movie 06 and then burn using Toast
 Don't use the Share feature from iMovie to iDVD - it is destructive of quality
 By-passing this Share feature - start using iDVD and import - but mixed 
 results
 All sorts of manipulations in moving from iMovie to iDVD - all very technical 
 and clunky.
 Don't use Ken Burns effect 
 Buy Final Cut Pro or 

RE: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-03-14 Thread Crisp, Peter
Thanks for the comprehensive instructions again Ronni. I will soon be
experimenting with iMovie '09 which I have on the Macbook. Your tips
acknowledged. My video was shot with a Sony HD camcorder which I believe
is 1080 (i or p not sure). It seems from your notes below, the resultant
video when burnt to a disc will be something at a lower resolution that
the original source file. Have I interpreted correctly? Is there a way
of retaining the original resolution or am I dreaming?

 

Regards

 

Peter.



From: wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au [mailto:wamug-ow...@wamug.org.au] On
Behalf Of Ronda Brown
Sent: Sunday, 14 March 2010 7:06 PM
To: WAMUG Mailing List
Subject: Re: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

 

Hi Marlene,

 

First I'll mention a little about iMovie'09  iMovieHD ('06), just for
your reference.

Be aware that iMovie '09 uses 'single field processing' (Interlaced)
meaning every other horizontal line of the video is thrown out, which
reduces the sharpness of the footage.

iMovie 06 (iMovie HD) uses ALL of the image (Progressive) to form the
video.

If your primary workflow is editing DV clips and making DVDs, iMovie 06
(iMovie HD) is better suited.
Your movie will arrive at iDVD in DV format, which is an ideal match for
making a DVD: same resolution, same pixels aspect ratio, and original
quality.

iMovie 06 (iMovie HD) and iDVD 09 is a lossless combination.

iMovie '09 is a wonderful program assuming that you're using it for what
it was designed to do, assemble simple videos to share on the Internet.

-

After saying the above, it is not going to help you any as you don't
have iMovieHD and Apple have ceased allowing it for download.

So we work with what you have, that is, your project in iMovie'09, best
quality export to get it into iDVD  create a DVD of very good quality.

 

As I mentioned in my previous email today ... DON'T Share to iDVD! It
is destructive especially to photos.

I suggest you have three choices to get your iMovie project into iDVD 
create your DVD.

1. Share  Media Browser - Large 720 x 540 

2. Share  Export Movie - creates a MPEG-4 (.m4v) 720 x 540  Audio
44,100 kHz

3. Share  Export Using Quicktime - gives you control over Quicktime
Settings.

 

(Share always to your Movies folder, then when in iDVD you can click on
Media - then Movies and locate your files).

 

You could experiment with all the above settings, making sure that in
iDVD you save your iDVD projects Save As Disc Image, so you can check
before your waste any DVDs.

 

I would suggest, in your case, that No.3 - Share  Export Using
Quicktime with these settings would give you the best quality DVD.

Share  Export using Quicktime

In the export window that appears,

Export: Movie to DV Stream, click Options

DV Format: DV

Video Format: PAL  (leave it at interlaced, as DVD-PAL is interlaced)

Aspect Ratio: 4:3 or 16:9 (depending on how your photos/project was
imported)

Audio Format: 48,000 kHz

 

This will give you a Quicktime .dv file with Format DV, 720 x 576,
Stereo, 48,000 kHz.

 

Then you can Open iDVD, bring in your Movie file, and create your DVD.

 

iDVD Preferences:

Projects: PAL, Encoding: Professional Quality


Once you know your project plays through correctly in iDVD.
Go to File  Save As Disc Image
You then see a window Creating your DVD
1. Prepare
2. Process Menus
3. Process Slideshows
4. Process Movies
5. Burn

After all the Rendering, encoding, processing movie, asset encoding,  
finally
multiplexing  burning is completed, a Disc Image is created.

All this takes a long time, depending on the length of your movie.

 

6. Open the Disk Image and play it all the way through in DVD
Player.app to check for any errors BEFORE you burn the Disc Image to a
DVD-R Disc.

7. Burn at a slow speed - 2x or 4x for Single Layer DVD-R, 2x for Double
Layer DVD+R DL. (I recommend using Verbatim DVD-R (for single layer) 
DVD+R DL Discs (for Double Layer).

 

NOTE: I did a quick iMovie'09 project this afternoon, and Share to iDVD
using No.2(Share  Export Movie - creates a MPEG-4 (.m4v) 720 x 540 
Audio 44,100 kHz)   No.3 (Share  Export Using Quicktime, with the
settings I explained above).

Saved the iDVD project as a Disk Image, (with both projects on the disk
image. t

Then burn't a DVD-R from the Disk Image using Toast Titanium 10, but you
can use either the Finder or Disk Utility to burn a Disk Image to DVD.

 

I found both the .m4v  .dv with above settings produced a very good
quality DVD when played in my DVD Player connected to TV.

Possibly the DV format was slightly better, but that could just be my
preference, there was not much difference that I could see with my eyes
;-)

 

Hope this is helpful to you, as I would very much like you to be able to
create a very good quality DVD of your project.

Post back to WAMUG if you require any more assistance.

 

Kind Regards,

Ronni

 





On 14/03/2010, at 11:22 AM, Marlene Oostryck wrote:





Hi All

 

I have just

IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-03-13 Thread Marlene Oostryck

Hi All

I have just burnt my first DVD from an iMovie project and have been  
really disappointed with the result. (iMac 10.5.8, 2.66 GHz Intel Core  
2 Duo, 4GB)


The image quality in iMovie is excellent but when played as a DVD on a  
TV there are moving horizontal lines and the image quality is very poor.
A Google search on this problem turned up 130 discussion forums on  
others who have had similar results.


The suggested solutions seem very complex:

Use 1Movie 06 and then burn using Toast
Don't use the Share feature from iMovie to iDVD - it is destructive of  
quality
By-passing this Share feature - start using iDVD and import - but  
mixed results
All sorts of manipulations in moving from iMovie to iDVD - all very  
technical and clunky.

Don't use Ken Burns effect
Buy Final Cut Pro or other software

The consensus seems to be that Steve Jobs/Apple feel that DVDs are old  
fashioned and that sharing of home-produced movies will all be done  
via the Web so not much effort went in to iDVD 09!
But there are millions who don't have internet access or prefer to  
watch these on their TV.


My work flow for this 18 min DVD  was:

Edit photos in iPhoto - great!
Produce iMovie project from still photos using Ken Burns, transitions,  
map screens, record voiceover, add background music - excellent  
finished product but very time-consuming
Share to iDVD using Professional Quality/Pal using Verbatim DVD-R disc  
- terrible finished product.

I have plenty of disc space available.

I have used information from:
iMovie 09 and iDVD- The Missing Manual
iMovie 09 and iDVD Visual Quickstart Guide- Jeff Carlson
Apple tutorials

I have made many DVDs on a PC using Photo Story 3 software (free from  
Microsoft) and must admit that the process was far easier with no loss  
of quality in the finished DVD.
The whole reason for shifting to a Mac was my impression that iMovie/ 
iDVD was more sophisticated with many more features.

Sadly, I am finding that this is not so.

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Regards


Marlene Oostryck
Ph: 9430 8006
oostr...@optusnet.com.au






-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
Archives - http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml
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Re: IMovie 09 to iDVD 09 - terrible results

2010-03-13 Thread Ronda Brown

Hi Marlene,
I'll get back to you as soon as I get near my computer. It's hard  
explaining from my iPhone

DON'T 'Share to iDVD!
I'll explain more soon

Sent from Ronni's iPhone

On 14/03/2010, at 11:22 AM, Marlene Oostryck  
oostr...@optusnet.com.au wrote:



Hi All

I have just burnt my first DVD from an iMovie project and have been  
really disappointed with the result. (iMac 10.5.8, 2.66 GHz Intel  
Core 2 Duo, 4GB)


The image quality in iMovie is excellent but when played as a DVD on  
a TV there are moving horizontal lines and the image quality is very  
poor.
A Google search on this problem turned up 130 discussion forums on  
others who have had similar results.


The suggested solutions seem very complex:

Use 1Movie 06 and then burn using Toast
Don't use the Share feature from iMovie to iDVD - it is destructive  
of quality
By-passing this Share feature - start using iDVD and import - but  
mixed results
All sorts of manipulations in moving from iMovie to iDVD - all very  
technical and clunky.

Don't use Ken Burns effect
Buy Final Cut Pro or other software

The consensus seems to be that Steve Jobs/Apple feel that DVDs are  
old fashioned and that sharing of home-produced movies will all be  
done via the Web so not much effort went in to iDVD 09!
But there are millions who don't have internet access or prefer to  
watch these on their TV.


My work flow for this 18 min DVD  was:

Edit photos in iPhoto - great!
Produce iMovie project from still photos using Ken Burns,  
transitions, map screens, record voiceover, add background music -  
excellent finished product but very time-consuming
Share to iDVD using Professional Quality/Pal using Verbatim DVD-R  
disc - terrible finished product.

I have plenty of disc space available.

I have used information from:
iMovie 09 and iDVD- The Missing Manual
iMovie 09 and iDVD Visual Quickstart Guide- Jeff Carlson
Apple tutorials

I have made many DVDs on a PC using Photo Story 3 software (free  
from Microsoft) and must admit that the process was far easier with  
no loss of quality in the finished DVD.
The whole reason for shifting to a Mac was my impression that iMovie/ 
iDVD was more sophisticated with many more features.

Sadly, I am finding that this is not so.

Any suggestion would be appreciated.

Regards


Marlene Oostryck
Ph: 9430 8006
oostr...@optusnet.com.au







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-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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