Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-10 Thread Peter MacGregor
At 19:50 09/02/2005, you wrote:
Joseph  (Who has never been a cab driver)
Well - you ain't dead yet!! LOL
Peter


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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-10 Thread Joseph Harris

Joseph  (Who has never been a cab driver)

Well - you ain't dead yet!! LOL

Peter

Well, I have served in a Wimpy bar!

Joseph




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RE: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-09 Thread Peter MacGregor
At 18:04 07/02/2005, you wrote:
 (wearing the brace while sleeping was part of
my treatment plan).

Glad my wife doesn't have to wear one of them - the way she thrashes about 
in her sleep sometimes, I'd wake up unconscious in the morning!! LOL

Peter MacGregor
PS - I realise the affliction is no laughing matter - I do a lot of 
Industrial Health and Safety work for companies. 

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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-09 Thread Peter MacGregor
At 18:07 07/02/2005, you wrote:
i think it's because my desk is too high or my chair is too low
A bit of free advice Rudy (and for everyone else) since we all help each 
other here. I'm principally a professional Health and Safety Consultant 
(80% of my income comes from this balance from developing simple web sites 
for clients.)

Ergonomically correct sitting position (to comply with European Health and 
Safety Legislation):
Screen should be at a height such that your eye-level is the same as the 
top of the screen housing or no lower than top of the screen itself.

Your feet should be able to rest flat on the floor with your thighs 
parallel to the ground and at the same time your arms should be able to 
rest on the desk when bent at right-angles at the elbow - no upward or 
downward angle. Wrist supported by a wrist-rest when using keyboard or 
mouse. If your feet cannot reach the floor when thighs are parallel to it, 
use a footrest or raise/lower chair.

If you can't get the above criteria correct by raising/lowering chair or 
screen location - the desk is the wrong height or chair was not designed 
for use by a keyboard operator. (To comply with UK Health and Safety 
legislation it is NOT permissible to use a book or other similar object to 
raise the screen position! Proper screen mounting brackets should be employed.)

If anyone needs to argue with that I guess it had better be done Off List 
Please feel free to email me direct.

Peter MacGregor
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-09 Thread Joseph Harris
Peter,

I could have done with knowing you when I was an HS Rep.Though,
frankly, I found those I represented were their own worst enemies on HS.
Managers, mostly, would jump through hoops to avoid my going over their
heads!

That was public service though;   I heard a lot of horror stories from
private industry like, I think it was Johnson Mathey, where the smelters
expected to be severely burned at some time;  at least the company paid the
medical bills.

One of my characters, though, decided he would clear a blockage in a large
chipper with his heel.   He was in hospital for weeks!   That probably came
out of the pressure of bonus schemes.

Joseph Harris


 At 18:07 07/02/2005, you wrote:
 i think it's because my desk is too high or my chair is too low

 A bit of free advice Rudy (and for everyone else) since we all help each
 other here. I'm principally a professional Health and Safety Consultant

 Peter MacGregor
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-09 Thread Peter MacGregor
At 16:19 09/02/2005, you wrote:
Peter,
I could have done with knowing you when I was an HS Rep.
Is there anything you HAVEN'T done for a living? (LOL)
Peter

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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-09 Thread Joseph Harris


 At 16:19 09/02/2005, you wrote:

 Peter,
 
 I could have done with knowing you when I was an HS Rep.

 Is there anything you HAVEN'T done for a living? (LOL)

 Peter

It's called being flexible  ;-)   Some things were done together, some were
parts of the same role.   Some are just unbelievable, some are too boring to
mention.   Unfortunately none of it went with the money...   or none of the
money went with any of them.

Joseph  (Who has never been a cab driver)


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RE:[wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-08 Thread Furry, Tim
Have a look at these sites:

http://jaxmed.com/articles/wellness/mouseErgo.html
 
Note the angle of the forearm in the image...essentially flat.  It is
difficult to get this angle unless you have a very low desk or a dropped
keyboard tray (my recommendation - get an adjustable-height tray with a
mousepad attached to your dominant hand's side).  Ideally your wrist
should be an inch or so below your elbow for good blood flow; I use a
chair with an adjustable arm, and when my arm is resting on the chair
arm, my hand falls naturally on the mouse.  My keyboard is perhaps only
two inches above my lap when adjusted properly.  As others have stated,
set your mouse to be able to move to all four corners without moving
your wrist...only finger movements should be necessary.  Also, as in
this image, you'll want your monitor center somewhat below your eye
level.  Many places will tell you to place it at eye level but in the
long run you'll be more comfortable the other way.  The tops of my
monitors are about 2 above my eyes, and the centers about 4-5 below
eye center.
 
http://www.streamingmediaiq.com/resources/tips/1284-eMedia%20Tips.html

Not much here but something other places miss: if you use a mouse with a
rubber ball, clean it weekly, along with the rollers or whatever it uses
to sense motion.  I can't begin to tell you how many users I've helped
just by cleaning their mouse and speeding up the response.  It's not
very noticeable but the effort required to make a dirty mouse track well
is accumulative.  Better yet, get an optical mouse and run it on a
solid-color cloth-topped mousepad.  The solid color (I use a dark blue
or a dark red pad) will improve optical tracking, particularly with Dell
opticals.
 
Try various keyboards and mice...I've found that for myself, I prefer a
traditional straight keyboard over an ergonomic model (I don't use
typical number keying technique and the split keyboard throws me off),
and I prefer optical mice over trackballs (too much thumb movement).
These combinations have kept me relatively pain-free for many years of
programming.
 
But if you're to the pain stage, the ONLY thing that's going to work is
to stop whatever it is you're doing...right away.  Switch mouse hands.
Get your keyboard where it belongs.  Get a good chair (it doesn't have
to be expensive; you can get good-quality armed height-adjustable chairs
for less than $50 now).  Stop every five or ten minutes and flex your
wrists completely in circles.  Get your monitors where they belong and
get the refresh rates up as fast as they'll take; make sure the picture
is using the full size of the monitor screen as well.  Your face should
be at least two feet away from a screen.  If you're in acute pain (i.e.
it doesn't go away overnight and your wrist or arm hurts just thinking
about a new day of work), get to a doctor.
 
A little over a year ago I had wrist surgery on my left wrist, with a
plate put in, due to a motorcycle accident.  I had an excellent doctor
who took the time to shape and attach the plate to allow full-range
motion...but on top of that, I was careful to keep my ergonomics correct
while returning to the job, and it has completely recovered without any
signs of carpal problems.  I just started doing pushups a month ago,
however, and while the wrist is finally up to taking the pressure, I
have to psych myself up for them every time.  :-)  Nothing like three
failed bone-set attempts in the ER to make a guy nervous.  LOL
 
Tim
_
Tim Furry
Senior Systems Administrator
Denver Public Schools

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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread rudy
 What to do when you're mouse arm is in REAL bad pain?

use the keyboard only

or did you perhaps mean, how do you alleviate the pain?


rudy




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RE: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread Cheryl D Wise
Switch sides, seriously using a mouse too much can cause RSI or repetitive
stress injury and contribute to Carpel tunnel (which I have).

That's one of the reasons I use a tablet pc so I can use the pen as an
alternative (I can write with both my right and left hand) but I know many
programmers who have gone to using their mouse with their non dominant hand.
Others who use glide points and even one that went to a foot controlled
mouse. Others turn on mouse keys in Windows. Even some who use voice
recognition software to type.

As a temporary measure ice, Advil and on of those wrist braces you can buy
with a metal splint will help (wearing the brace while sleeping was part of
my treatment plan). That's part of the therapy my orthopedist prescribed
along with staying off the computer for a few days until the pain stops.

Cheryl D. Wise
Certified Professional Web Developer
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://wiserways.com 
Office: 713-353-0139 

-Original Message-
From: Gerrie Warner 
Hej all you web developers!
What to do when you're mouse arm is in REAL bad pain?


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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread rudy
 trying to cure or improve the acute  aggrivated condition and physical
 therapies to allviate further relapse

IANAPT(*), but try to cut back on the amount of time you're at the computer

make sure the arm gets plenty of free motion exercise

do you know where on the upper arm on the outside most people have their
vaccination scars?

that's where i get pain, and yes, it's from using the mouse

i think it's because my desk is too high or my chair is too low

the strain is due to the shoulder muscle constantly trying to lift the arm

you could also try adjusting your mouse responsiveness so that it does not
require so much motion to move the cursor across the screen

you should be able to hit all four corners of the screen moving *just* your
fingers -- if your wrist or arm also has to move, that means your arm will be
tense

hope this helps

rudy

(*) i am not a physical therapist




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RE: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread Ann Cook
Gerrie,

I have some wrist guards I wear at home  work when my wrists really bother
me. They aren't a prescription,  I think you may be able to get them at an
office supply store like Staples or Office Max. I found if I wear them at
night when I sleep it really helps. (Not very attractive, but it helps. It's
kind of weird the first night or so getting used to it, but I think the
benefits outweigh the initial awkwardness.)

Make sure your work space is ergonomically correct, ie monitor proper
height, keyboard positioned so your elbows are 90° (I also have my trackball
mouse down at the 90° position.) You may want to think about a trackball
instead of a traditional mouse as it helps alleviate strain. I know Logitech
makes some nice ones.

Also, take your hands  arms  stretch them every so often. Kind of hard to
explain, but take them from your normal sitting position where you're kind
of tightened up, and fling them out several times, especially your fingers.

A little non-traditional, but I also go to the Chiropractor about every 5
weeks. He adjusts my back, neck  wrists  it really seems to help.

HTH,
Ann



-Original Message-
From: Gerrie Warner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:52 AM
To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com
Subject: Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm


trying to cure or improve the acute  aggrivated condition and physical 
therapies to allviate further relapse
//G


- Original Message - 
From: rudy [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 6:33 PM
Subject: Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm


 What to do when you're mouse arm is in REAL bad pain?

 use the keyboard only

 or did you perhaps mean, how do you alleviate the pain?


 rudy




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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread Joseph Harris
I'm sorry that so many are suffering;  RSI is a serious matter and hits all
too easily (hitting a lot of youngsters with those game thingees).


 you could also try adjusting your mouse responsiveness so that it does not
 require so much motion to move the cursor across the screen

 you should be able to hit all four corners of the screen moving *just*
your
 fingers -- if your wrist or arm also has to move, that means your arm will
be
 tense

rudy,

Can't find where to adjust the mouse in this way (Xp).

Joseph


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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread Mark Groen
On Mon, 7 Feb 2005 18:30:04 +0100, Gerrie Warner  wrote:
 Hej all you web developers!
 What to do when you're mouse arm is in REAL bad pain?

Prevention is good medicine too. Install Workrave on your computer, be
loyal to it, and you will see that you get more done in a day, easier,
by following their break regimen. Hopefully after a couple/few weeks
of it, you will be doing it sans software without even thinking about
and ending the day at the computer pain free.

http://www.workrave.org/welcome/index.php
 
cheers,

 Mark

 MG Web Services
 www.mgwebservices.ca

Your Canadian West Coast web site development and hosting solution.

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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread rudy
 Can't find where to adjust the mouse in this way (Xp).

control panel  mouse  motion  speed

at least, that's where it is in win2k


rudy


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Re: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread Joseph Harris

  Can't find where to adjust the mouse in this way (Xp).
 
 control panel  mouse  motion  speed
 
 at least, that's where it is in win2k
 
 
 rudy


Ah - Hahcontrol panelmousepointer optionsspeed

And faster does what you suggest.

That Bill just ain't stable!

Joseph

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RE: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

2005-02-07 Thread debram
You can add to that stretching the hand in the opposite direction that you
are holding the mouse in to stretch out the fingers. If you have someone
around that can massage the arm, that helps too. The best way to stop the
pain is to stop using the arm until the pain is gone.

Deb

-Original Message-
From: Cheryl D Wise [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 10:04 AM
To: wdvltalk@lists.wdvl.com
Subject: RE: [wdvltalk] OT mouse arm

Switch sides, seriously using a mouse too much can cause RSI or repetitive
stress injury and contribute to Carpel tunnel (which I have).




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