Re: [Web-SIG] [Python-Dev] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
At 07:15 PM 9/25/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: Don't see this as a new spec. See it as a procedural issue. As a procedural issue, PEP 333 is an Informational PEP, in Draft status, which I'd like to make Final after these amendments. See http://www.wsgi.org/wsgi/Amendments_1.0, which Graham created in 2007, stating: This page is intended to collect any ideas related to amendments to the original WSGI 1.0 so that it can be marked as 'Final'. IOW, there is no intention to treat the PEP as mutable going forward; this is just cleanup so we can mark it Final. After that, it's an ex-parrot. Clarifications of ambiguous/unspecified behavior can possibly rule as non-conforming implementations that used to get the benefit of the doubt. Best-practice recommendations also have the effect of changing (perceived) compliance. I understand the general principle, but with respect to these *specific* changes, any perceived-compliance arguments that were going to happen, already happened years ago. The changes are merely to officially document the way those arguments already turned out, so the PEP can become Final. Specifically, the changes all fall into one of three categories: 1. Textual clarification (SERVER_PORT is not an int, iteration can stop before all output is consumed) 2. Practical issues with wsgi.input arising from the fact that real-world programs needed its behavior to be more file-like than the specification required... and which essentially forced servers that were not using socket.makefile() to make their emulations work like that, anyway (or else be rejected by users). 3. Clarification of behavior that would break HTTP compliance (apps or servers sending more than Content-Length bytes) and is therefore *already a bug* in any implementation that does it. Since in all three categories any implementation that did not end up following the recommendations on its own is going to have been considered buggy by its users (regardless of its formal compliance), and because the changes do not actually declare the buggy behaviors in categories 2 and 3 to be non-compliant, I do not see how any of these changes can produce the type of problems you're worried about here. Certainly, if I thought such problems were possible, I wouldn't have accepted these amendments. Likewise, if I thought that changes would continue to be made to the PEP past this point, the goal wouldn't be getting it to Final status. ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Web-SIG] [Python-Dev] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 7:58 AM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote: I hadn't realized that PEP 333 was never actually in the 'Final' status (de facto, it has been so for years, of course). Given that fact, and PJEs assurances, I think amending the PEP and then immediately declaring it final is reasonable. And who is going to give the PEP its stamp of approval? I'm sorry, but all this weasel-wording about how these changes aren't really changes and how this standard wasn't really a standard make me very uncomfortable. I'm happy approving Final status for the *original* PEP 333 and I'm happy to approve a new PEP which includes PJE's corrections. I'm not going to approve Final status for a history-rewrite of PEP 333. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Web-SIG] [Python-Dev] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P.J. Eby wrote: At 08:20 AM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'm happy approving Final status for the *original* PEP 333 and I'm happy to approve a new PEP which includes PJE's corrections. Can we make it PEP , then? ;-) That works for me. Go for it. -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Web-SIG] [Python-Dev] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
At 01:44 PM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P.J. Eby wrote: At 08:20 AM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'm happy approving Final status for the *original* PEP 333 and I'm happy to approve a new PEP which includes PJE's corrections. Can we make it PEP , then? ;-) That works for me. Go for it. Shall I just svn cp it, then (to preserve edit history), or wait for the PEP editor do it? ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Web-SIG] [Python-Dev] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
Since you have commit privileges, just do it. The PEP editor position mostly exists to assure non-committers are not prevented from authoring PEPs. Please do add a prominent note at the top of PEP 333 pointing to PEP for further information on Python 3 compliance or some such words. Add a similar note at the top of PEP -- maybe mark up the differences in PEP so people can easily tell what was added. And move PEP 333 to Final status. --Guido On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:50 PM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote: At 01:44 PM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P.J. Eby wrote: At 08:20 AM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'm happy approving Final status for the *original* PEP 333 and I'm happy to approve a new PEP which includes PJE's corrections. Can we make it PEP , then? ;-) That works for me. Go for it. Shall I just svn cp it, then (to preserve edit history), or wait for the PEP editor do it? -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Web-SIG] [Python-Dev] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
Done. The other amendments were never actually made, so I just reverted the Python 3 bit after moving it to the new PEP. I'll make the changes to instead as soon as I have another time slot free. At 01:56 PM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: Since you have commit privileges, just do it. The PEP editor position mostly exists to assure non-committers are not prevented from authoring PEPs. Please do add a prominent note at the top of PEP 333 pointing to PEP for further information on Python 3 compliance or some such words. Add a similar note at the top of PEP -- maybe mark up the differences in PEP so people can easily tell what was added. And move PEP 333 to Final status. --Guido On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:50 PM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote: At 01:44 PM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote: On Sep 26, 2010, at 1:33 PM, P.J. Eby wrote: At 08:20 AM 9/26/2010 -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: I'm happy approving Final status for the *original* PEP 333 and I'm happy to approve a new PEP which includes PJE's corrections. Can we make it PEP , then? ;-) That works for me. Go for it. Shall I just svn cp it, then (to preserve edit history), or wait for the PEP editor do it? -- --Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido) ___ Python-Dev mailing list python-...@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-dev/pje%40telecommunity.com ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Web-SIG] [Python-Dev] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
At 02:59 PM 9/26/2010 -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: You could mark added material is a way that does not conflict with rst or html. Or use .rst to make new text stand out in the .html web verion (bold, underlined, red, or whatever). People familiar with 333 can focus on the marked sections. New readers can ignore the marking. If you (or anybody else) have any idea how to do that (highlight stuff in PEP-dialect .rst), let me know. (For that matter, if anybody knows how to make it not turn *every* PEP reference into a link, that'd be good too! It doesn't really need to turn 5 or 6 occurrences of PEP 333 in the same paragraph into separate links. ;-) ) ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Web-SIG] WSGI is now Python 3-friendly
P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com writes: (For that matter, if anybody knows how to make it not turn *every* PEP reference into a link, that'd be good too! It doesn't really need to turn 5 or 6 occurrences of PEP 333 in the same paragraph into separate links. ;-) ) reST, being designed explicitly for Python documentation, has support for PEP references built in: The :pep-reference: role is used to create an HTTP reference to a PEP (Python Enhancement Proposal). The :PEP: alias is usually used. For example: See :PEP:`287` for more information about reStructuredText. This is equivalent to: See `PEP 287`__ for more information about reStructuredText. __ http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0287.html URL:http://docutils.sourceforge.net/docs/ref/rst/roles.html#pep-reference. -- \ “What is needed is not the will to believe but the will to find | `\ out, which is the exact opposite.” —Bertrand Russell | _o__) | Ben Finney ___ Web-SIG mailing list Web-SIG@python.org Web SIG: http://www.python.org/sigs/web-sig Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/web-sig/archive%40mail-archive.com
