[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
On Aug 2, 4:56 am, Jason Brower encomp...@gmail.com wrote: Annoying as i can't view the errors without copying them locally first off the web server and reading them from my personal computer. You can, just configure properly the web2py admin interface on your production site. Even you did not setup or don't want the admin on production server, it is still a good thing that the errors can be copied to development server and view and debug. Isn't i? Hence why i felt we need a console based reader for web2py error files. Why a separated error viewer is needed? Don't you need an entire development environment, as soon as after viewing the error and start debug? Regards, iceberg
Re: [web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
Massimo since you are a real gentleman you have been too polite... ;) DAL vs ORM: the fact that DAL uses a clean functional approach does not mean that is not OO... Python magic was all over the place, variables defined globally are allover, you cannot see real OO in the design I only agree that Python is magic, but that is the only thing I agree with. Probably a long exposure to COO (Class Object Oriented languages such as java) causes this misunderstanding with Python beginners. Indeed Python is a truly OO languages and web2py uses that. Ok enough... ciao, mic 2010/8/2 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but I thought I'd mention it. You can use unit tests with web2py. web2py it self has unit tests in the gluon/tests folder. You can run unit tests for your apps from the shell (as you would do in other Python frameworks) although you cannot run them through the web IDE. The web IDE only supports doctests and you are correct about that. Web2py is known to work with WingIDE, Eclipse and IntelliJ. It is true that web2py does not distinguishes production from debugging mode but to clarify: this is because webp2y always in production mode yet it always logs all the errors. If the current user is logged in as administator he/she has access to the error tickets and error tracebacks. Web2py follows PEP8 internally but it does not import application code, executes it. In this environment it exposes some symbols. Some symbols are per-http-request. Some symbols are system wide. The latter are all caps because should be treated as constants and not modified. I feel this is consistent with PEP8. The naming scheme is explained in the first chapter of the manual. You are also right that web2py has a DAL, not an ORM. The main difference is that in a ORM a table is a class and a record is an instance of that class. In the web2py DAL the table concept is a class but each table is an instance and each record is a dictionary. In my view both approaches are object oriented. For example this is a query with the web2py DAL: for row in db(db.mytable.myfield0).select(): print row.myfield and this the same query with the Django ORM: for row in Mytable.objects.filter(myfield__lt=0): print row.myfield In my opinion the former looks more OO than the latter.
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
Ok, I would like to elaborate more on the points I've mentioned. 1- Web2py does not support unit testing out of the box and if you want to hack everything to get unit testing well integrated you can but this still doesn't mean the framework support unit testing, and by that I mean the ability to test complete scenarios, have you tried to write a unit test for controller that has SQLFORM in it? the double- submission check will make your life miserable if you tried to do unit tests that simulates form submissions. Also you will need to do a lot to create correct fixtures that would bring the web2py environment up and down before and after every test. Plus, there is no selenium testing integration like how other frameworks do. 2- By saying twisted means that you have things that are automagically imported for you and many things are imported by default according to import_all, also you have a lot of variables like response, request, session, etc. that are magically inserted into the execution environment, such design is OK but not Good, as I can't see the context and there is a little of referential transparency in there. You can't see what's being passed or imported, neither the IDE. 3- In error reporting, If you tried to write a mistake in the template, the question is, does it show you the error correctly? does it show you the right line number as in your source file? 4- About the DAL and not ORM, that's OK and I understand that you chosen the DAL choice based on your experience with ORMs but from my personal point of view that your implementation of DAL is too close from being an ORM but without a decent way of defining the entities, you simply nest everything into a possibly one or more calls to create tables with validators in a pure functional way. My problem with that is that flat is better than nested and the code becomes scattered especially in the model 4- Yes, I already explained that CPython implementation is the real limitation and not web2py, this is a python-related issue and not web2py but still web2py is affected. 5- Yes, Python does work on Eclipse, IntelliJ, etc. but does web2py work smoothly and easily? for instance, to get web2py working correctly on eclipse (PyDev) you will need to put stupid nonsense imports ( if 0: import ) on the top of every file because of the magic I mentioned before., you will need to manually redefine request, response, session, etc. variables in that dummy if condition. You don't get proper auto completion because almost everything happen in the runtime (like dicts masked as attributed objects). So, simply, By design no IDE can help you much unless we hardcoded much of that stuff into the IDE itself. 6- I also would like to add that the current design on the plugin system, looks more like a hack rather than a modular, conflict-safe scalable system. Btw, I still like web2py very much and I would like to contribute when possible on making things better but that might include general philosophy changes.1 Thanks for the great community. On Aug 2, 12:36 pm, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Massimo since you are a real gentleman you have been too polite... ;) DAL vs ORM: the fact that DAL uses a clean functional approach does not mean that is not OO... Python magic was all over the place, variables defined globally are allover, you cannot see real OO in the design I only agree that Python is magic, but that is the only thing I agree with. Probably a long exposure to COO (Class Object Oriented languages such as java) causes this misunderstanding with Python beginners. Indeed Python is a truly OO languages and web2py uses that. Ok enough... ciao, mic 2010/8/2 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but I thought I'd mention it. You can use unit tests with web2py. web2py it self has unit tests in the gluon/tests folder. You can run unit tests for your apps from the shell (as you would do in other Python frameworks) although you cannot run them through the web IDE. The web IDE only supports doctests and you are correct about that. Web2py is known to work with WingIDE, Eclipse and IntelliJ. It is true that web2py does not distinguishes production from debugging mode but to clarify: this is because webp2y always in production mode yet it always logs all the errors. If the current user is logged in as administator he/she has access to the error tickets and error tracebacks. Web2py follows PEP8 internally but it does not import application code, executes it. In this environment it exposes some symbols. Some symbols are per-http-request.
Re: [web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
Ahmed, Ok I understand now point 2. I think that is dependency injection and inversion of control, web2py uses it. The problem you mention is real: debugging is harder because you don't know where things come from. This is common to programs that uses IoC, but is good for code reuse and unit testing (of web2py framework itself). 2010/8/2 Ahmed Soliman ah...@farghal.com Ok, I would like to elaborate more on the points I've mentioned. 1- Web2py does not support unit testing out of the box and if you want to hack everything to get unit testing well integrated you can but this still doesn't mean the framework support unit testing, and by that I mean the ability to test complete scenarios, have you tried to write a unit test for controller that has SQLFORM in it? the double- submission check will make your life miserable if you tried to do unit tests that simulates form submissions. Also you will need to do a lot to create correct fixtures that would bring the web2py environment up and down before and after every test. Plus, there is no selenium testing integration like how other frameworks do. 2- By saying twisted means that you have things that are automagically imported for you and many things are imported by default according to import_all, also you have a lot of variables like response, request, session, etc. that are magically inserted into the execution environment, such design is OK but not Good, as I can't see the context and there is a little of referential transparency in there. You can't see what's being passed or imported, neither the IDE. 3- In error reporting, If you tried to write a mistake in the template, the question is, does it show you the error correctly? does it show you the right line number as in your source file? 4- About the DAL and not ORM, that's OK and I understand that you chosen the DAL choice based on your experience with ORMs but from my personal point of view that your implementation of DAL is too close from being an ORM but without a decent way of defining the entities, you simply nest everything into a possibly one or more calls to create tables with validators in a pure functional way. My problem with that is that flat is better than nested and the code becomes scattered especially in the model 4- Yes, I already explained that CPython implementation is the real limitation and not web2py, this is a python-related issue and not web2py but still web2py is affected. 5- Yes, Python does work on Eclipse, IntelliJ, etc. but does web2py work smoothly and easily? for instance, to get web2py working correctly on eclipse (PyDev) you will need to put stupid nonsense imports ( if 0: import ) on the top of every file because of the magic I mentioned before., you will need to manually redefine request, response, session, etc. variables in that dummy if condition. You don't get proper auto completion because almost everything happen in the runtime (like dicts masked as attributed objects). So, simply, By design no IDE can help you much unless we hardcoded much of that stuff into the IDE itself. 6- I also would like to add that the current design on the plugin system, looks more like a hack rather than a modular, conflict-safe scalable system. Btw, I still like web2py very much and I would like to contribute when possible on making things better but that might include general philosophy changes.1 Thanks for the great community. On Aug 2, 12:36 pm, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Massimo since you are a real gentleman you have been too polite... ;) DAL vs ORM: the fact that DAL uses a clean functional approach does not mean that is not OO... Python magic was all over the place, variables defined globally are allover, you cannot see real OO in the design I only agree that Python is magic, but that is the only thing I agree with. Probably a long exposure to COO (Class Object Oriented languages such as java) causes this misunderstanding with Python beginners. Indeed Python is a truly OO languages and web2py uses that. Ok enough... ciao, mic 2010/8/2 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but I thought I'd mention it. You can use unit tests with web2py. web2py it self has unit tests in the gluon/tests folder. You can run unit tests for your apps from the shell (as you would do in other Python frameworks) although you cannot run them through the web IDE. The web IDE only supports doctests and you are correct about that. Web2py is known to work with WingIDE, Eclipse and
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
Thanks Ahmed for the clarifications. Having feedback from users is very important. :-) On Aug 2, 5:51 am, Ahmed Soliman ah...@farghal.com wrote: Ok, I would like to elaborate more on the points I've mentioned. 1- Web2py does not support unit testing out of the box and if you want to hack everything to get unit testing well integrated you can but this still doesn't mean the framework support unit testing, and by that I mean the ability to test complete scenarios, have you tried to write a unit test for controller that has SQLFORM in it? the double- submission check will make your life miserable if you tried to do unit tests that simulates form submissions. Also you will need to do a lot to create correct fixtures that would bring the web2py environment up and down before and after every test. Plus, there is no selenium testing integration like how other frameworks do. 2- By saying twisted means that you have things that are automagically imported for you and many things are imported by default according to import_all, also you have a lot of variables like response, request, session, etc. that are magically inserted into the execution environment, such design is OK but not Good, as I can't see the context and there is a little of referential transparency in there. You can't see what's being passed or imported, neither the IDE. 3- In error reporting, If you tried to write a mistake in the template, the question is, does it show you the error correctly? does it show you the right line number as in your source file? 4- About the DAL and not ORM, that's OK and I understand that you chosen the DAL choice based on your experience with ORMs but from my personal point of view that your implementation of DAL is too close from being an ORM but without a decent way of defining the entities, you simply nest everything into a possibly one or more calls to create tables with validators in a pure functional way. My problem with that is that flat is better than nested and the code becomes scattered especially in the model 4- Yes, I already explained that CPython implementation is the real limitation and not web2py, this is a python-related issue and not web2py but still web2py is affected. 5- Yes, Python does work on Eclipse, IntelliJ, etc. but does web2py work smoothly and easily? for instance, to get web2py working correctly on eclipse (PyDev) you will need to put stupid nonsense imports ( if 0: import ) on the top of every file because of the magic I mentioned before., you will need to manually redefine request, response, session, etc. variables in that dummy if condition. You don't get proper auto completion because almost everything happen in the runtime (like dicts masked as attributed objects). So, simply, By design no IDE can help you much unless we hardcoded much of that stuff into the IDE itself. 6- I also would like to add that the current design on the plugin system, looks more like a hack rather than a modular, conflict-safe scalable system. Btw, I still like web2py very much and I would like to contribute when possible on making things better but that might include general philosophy changes.1 Thanks for the great community. On Aug 2, 12:36 pm, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Massimo since you are a real gentleman you have been too polite... ;) DAL vs ORM: the fact that DAL uses a clean functional approach does not mean that is not OO... Python magic was all over the place, variables defined globally are allover, you cannot see real OO in the design I only agree that Python is magic, but that is the only thing I agree with. Probably a long exposure to COO (Class Object Oriented languages such as java) causes this misunderstanding with Python beginners. Indeed Python is a truly OO languages and web2py uses that. Ok enough... ciao, mic 2010/8/2 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but I thought I'd mention it. You can use unit tests with web2py. web2py it self has unit tests in the gluon/tests folder. You can run unit tests for your apps from the shell (as you would do in other Python frameworks) although you cannot run them through the web IDE. The web IDE only supports doctests and you are correct about that. Web2py is known to work with WingIDE, Eclipse and IntelliJ. It is true that web2py does not distinguishes production from debugging mode but to clarify: this is because webp2y always in production mode yet it always logs all the errors. If the current user is logged in as administator
Re: [web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
For me . Web2py completions works flawlessly under Eclipse + PyDEV Just follow Mr.Freeze post on web2py slice http://www.web2pyslices.com/main/slices/take_slice/2 and add on each controller : from applications.sExtract.modules.doctypes import * from gluon.sql import * from gluon.html import * from gluon.globals import Response, Session, Request global RESPONSE , REQUEST, SESSION , db REQUEST = Request() REQUEST = request SESSION = Session() SESSION = session RESPONSE = Response() On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:33 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: Thanks Ahmed for the clarifications. Having feedback from users is very important. :-) On Aug 2, 5:51 am, Ahmed Soliman ah...@farghal.com wrote: Ok, I would like to elaborate more on the points I've mentioned. 1- Web2py does not support unit testing out of the box and if you want to hack everything to get unit testing well integrated you can but this still doesn't mean the framework support unit testing, and by that I mean the ability to test complete scenarios, have you tried to write a unit test for controller that has SQLFORM in it? the double- submission check will make your life miserable if you tried to do unit tests that simulates form submissions. Also you will need to do a lot to create correct fixtures that would bring the web2py environment up and down before and after every test. Plus, there is no selenium testing integration like how other frameworks do. 2- By saying twisted means that you have things that are automagically imported for you and many things are imported by default according to import_all, also you have a lot of variables like response, request, session, etc. that are magically inserted into the execution environment, such design is OK but not Good, as I can't see the context and there is a little of referential transparency in there. You can't see what's being passed or imported, neither the IDE. 3- In error reporting, If you tried to write a mistake in the template, the question is, does it show you the error correctly? does it show you the right line number as in your source file? 4- About the DAL and not ORM, that's OK and I understand that you chosen the DAL choice based on your experience with ORMs but from my personal point of view that your implementation of DAL is too close from being an ORM but without a decent way of defining the entities, you simply nest everything into a possibly one or more calls to create tables with validators in a pure functional way. My problem with that is that flat is better than nested and the code becomes scattered especially in the model 4- Yes, I already explained that CPython implementation is the real limitation and not web2py, this is a python-related issue and not web2py but still web2py is affected. 5- Yes, Python does work on Eclipse, IntelliJ, etc. but does web2py work smoothly and easily? for instance, to get web2py working correctly on eclipse (PyDev) you will need to put stupid nonsense imports ( if 0: import ) on the top of every file because of the magic I mentioned before., you will need to manually redefine request, response, session, etc. variables in that dummy if condition. You don't get proper auto completion because almost everything happen in the runtime (like dicts masked as attributed objects). So, simply, By design no IDE can help you much unless we hardcoded much of that stuff into the IDE itself. 6- I also would like to add that the current design on the plugin system, looks more like a hack rather than a modular, conflict-safe scalable system. Btw, I still like web2py very much and I would like to contribute when possible on making things better but that might include general philosophy changes.1 Thanks for the great community. On Aug 2, 12:36 pm, Michele Comitini michele.comit...@gmail.com wrote: Massimo since you are a real gentleman you have been too polite... ;) DAL vs ORM: the fact that DAL uses a clean functional approach does not mean that is not OO... Python magic was all over the place, variables defined globally are allover, you cannot see real OO in the design I only agree that Python is magic, but that is the only thing I agree with. Probably a long exposure to COO (Class Object Oriented languages such as java) causes this misunderstanding with Python beginners. Indeed Python is a truly OO languages and web2py uses that. Ok enough... ciao, mic 2010/8/2 mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but
Re: [web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
On Aug 2, 2010, at 2:36 AM, Michele Comitini wrote: Python magic was all over the place, variables defined globally are allover, you cannot see real OO in the design I only agree that Python is magic, but that is the only thing I agree with. Probably a long exposure to COO (Class Object Oriented languages such as java) causes this misunderstanding with Python beginners. Indeed Python is a truly OO languages and web2py uses that. Rails is full of magic, too; it's part of the charm. I do think (I'm repeating myself) that the magic could be better documented. Including being a little more explicit about what's happening in the global namespace, and how it relates to code in models, controllers views.
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
5- Yes, Python does work on Eclipse, IntelliJ, etc. but does web2py work smoothly and easily? for instance, to get web2py working correctly on eclipse (PyDev) you will need to put stupid nonsense imports ( if 0: import ) on the top of every file because of the magic I mentioned before., you will need to manually redefine request, response, session, etc. variables in that dummy if condition. You don't get proper auto completion because almost everything happen in the runtime (like dicts masked as attributed objects). So, simply, By design no IDE can help you much unless we hardcoded much of that stuff into the IDE itself. Oh yes, this is actually what made my efforts to document the framework with Sphinx quite unsuccessful last year: things only work when executed but Sphinx is designed for importing code.
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
http://www.ahmedsoliman.com/2010/07/29/the-good-and-bad-about-web2py/ nice one. and fair. Would lo e to see a reaction from Massimo.
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
Here are my thoughts, point by point: - web2py does support unit testing as it uses python code. I think the article author means you cannot currently set up unit tests within the administration console. You can configure tests as much or as little as you like from the command line. - I think the article author should elaborate on the meaning of the phrase “used in a twisted way to design the framework”. I don't see anything twisted about the implementation; web2py is a WSGI application. Personally, I think following Style Guide for Python Code (PEP-8) is a good thing. Why is following the standard Style Guide a bad thing? It promotes readability, consistency and reusability. - I cannot disagree with the author more on his view of error reporting. I prefer having the list of errors viewable from the administration console so I can refer to previous errors without grepping through logs. Not only that, but web2py built-in error reporting gives you hyperlinks to the files so you can track down the root cause. This is a Good Thing™! Furthermore, you could just enable tail the debug log if it bothers you that much. On Aug 1, 1:28 pm, David Marko dma...@tiscali.cz wrote: http://www.ahmedsoliman.com/2010/07/29/the-good-and-bad-about-web2py/
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
I missed the last few sections when I pasted in my response :-) - web2py uses the DAL as documented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web2py#Database_handling; why is an ORM needed? - web2py has excellent IDE support through Eclipse and Wing IDE. Maybe we need more details on his issue. - As he rightly points out the single-core question is an interpreter limitation of sorts and really has nothing to do with web2py. That having been said, you can easily set up multiple instances and load- balance them. All of which is heavily documented in the scalability section of the web2py book. On Aug 1, 4:36 pm, Scott blueseas...@gmail.com wrote: Here are my thoughts, point by point: - web2py does support unit testing as it uses python code. I think the article author means you cannot currently set up unit tests within the administration console. You can configure tests as much or as little as you like from the command line. - I think the article author should elaborate on the meaning of the phrase “used in a twisted way to design the framework”. I don't see anything twisted about the implementation; web2py is a WSGI application. Personally, I think following Style Guide for Python Code (PEP-8) is a good thing. Why is following the standard Style Guide a bad thing? It promotes readability, consistency and reusability. - I cannot disagree with the author more on his view of error reporting. I prefer having the list of errors viewable from the administration console so I can refer to previous errors without grepping through logs. Not only that, but web2py built-in error reporting gives you hyperlinks to the files so you can track down the root cause. This is a Good Thing™! Furthermore, you could just enable tail the debug log if it bothers you that much. On Aug 1, 1:28 pm, David Marko dma...@tiscali.cz wrote: http://www.ahmedsoliman.com/2010/07/29/the-good-and-bad-about-web2py/
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but I thought I'd mention it. You can use unit tests with web2py. web2py it self has unit tests in the gluon/tests folder. You can run unit tests for your apps from the shell (as you would do in other Python frameworks) although you cannot run them through the web IDE. The web IDE only supports doctests and you are correct about that. Web2py is known to work with WingIDE, Eclipse and IntelliJ. It is true that web2py does not distinguishes production from debugging mode but to clarify: this is because webp2y always in production mode yet it always logs all the errors. If the current user is logged in as administator he/she has access to the error tickets and error tracebacks. Web2py follows PEP8 internally but it does not import application code, executes it. In this environment it exposes some symbols. Some symbols are per-http-request. Some symbols are system wide. The latter are all caps because should be treated as constants and not modified. I feel this is consistent with PEP8. The naming scheme is explained in the first chapter of the manual. You are also right that web2py has a DAL, not an ORM. The main difference is that in a ORM a table is a class and a record is an instance of that class. In the web2py DAL the table concept is a class but each table is an instance and each record is a dictionary. In my view both approaches are object oriented. For example this is a query with the web2py DAL: for row in db(db.mytable.myfield0).select(): print row.myfield and this the same query with the Django ORM: for row in Mytable.objects.filter(myfield__lt=0): print row.myfield In my opinion the former looks more OO than the latter.
Re: [web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
I must point out on the testing standpoint: http://packages.python.org/web2py_utils/test_runner.html -- Thadeus On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 5:10 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but I thought I'd mention it. You can use unit tests with web2py. web2py it self has unit tests in the gluon/tests folder. You can run unit tests for your apps from the shell (as you would do in other Python frameworks) although you cannot run them through the web IDE. The web IDE only supports doctests and you are correct about that. Web2py is known to work with WingIDE, Eclipse and IntelliJ. It is true that web2py does not distinguishes production from debugging mode but to clarify: this is because webp2y always in production mode yet it always logs all the errors. If the current user is logged in as administator he/she has access to the error tickets and error tracebacks. Web2py follows PEP8 internally but it does not import application code, executes it. In this environment it exposes some symbols. Some symbols are per-http-request. Some symbols are system wide. The latter are all caps because should be treated as constants and not modified. I feel this is consistent with PEP8. The naming scheme is explained in the first chapter of the manual. You are also right that web2py has a DAL, not an ORM. The main difference is that in a ORM a table is a class and a record is an instance of that class. In the web2py DAL the table concept is a class but each table is an instance and each record is a dictionary. In my view both approaches are object oriented. For example this is a query with the web2py DAL: for row in db(db.mytable.myfield0).select(): print row.myfield and this the same query with the Django ORM: for row in Mytable.objects.filter(myfield__lt=0): print row.myfield In my opinion the former looks more OO than the latter.
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
I knew IntelliJ had a few plugins for PHP, Ruby, etc. but didn't think the Python plugin made it out of beta. I'll go take another look. Thanks! On Aug 1, 5:08 pm, Robert O'Connor robby.ocon...@gmail.com wrote: -Rob On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Scott blueseas...@gmail.com wrote: I missed the last few sections when I pasted in my response :-) - web2py uses the DAL as documented here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web2py#Database_handling; why is an ORM needed? - web2py has excellent IDE support through Eclipse and Wing IDE. Maybe we need more details on his issue. It also happens to work *out of the box* with IntelliJ IDEA --- with full debugging support! - As he rightly points out the single-core question is an interpreter limitation of sorts and really has nothing to do with web2py. That having been said, you can easily set up multiple instances and load- balance them. All of which is heavily documented in the scalability section of the web2py book. On Aug 1, 4:36 pm, Scott blueseas...@gmail.com wrote: Here are my thoughts, point by point: - web2py does support unit testing as it uses python code. I think the article author means you cannot currently set up unit tests within the administration console. You can configure tests as much or as little as you like from the command line. - I think the article author should elaborate on the meaning of the phrase “used in a twisted way to design the framework”. I don't see anything twisted about the implementation; web2py is a WSGI application. Personally, I think following Style Guide for Python Code (PEP-8) is a good thing. Why is following the standard Style Guide a bad thing? It promotes readability, consistency and reusability. - I cannot disagree with the author more on his view of error reporting. I prefer having the list of errors viewable from the administration console so I can refer to previous errors without grepping through logs. Not only that, but web2py built-in error reporting gives you hyperlinks to the files so you can track down the root cause. This is a Good Thing™! Furthermore, you could just enable tail the debug log if it bothers you that much. On Aug 1, 1:28 pm, David Marko dma...@tiscali.cz wrote: http://www.ahmedsoliman.com/2010/07/29/the-good-and-bad-about-web2py/
[web2py] Re: ARTICLE: The good and bad about web2py
I should remember to reference that in the new book. :-) On Aug 1, 5:33 pm, Thadeus Burgess thade...@thadeusb.com wrote: I must point out on the testing standpoint: http://packages.python.org/web2py_utils/test_runner.html -- Thadeus On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 5:10 PM, mdipierro mdipie...@cs.depaul.edu wrote: This was my response. It is awaiting moderation: Hello Ahmed. Nice article. A few comments: web2py runs with Jython. We just consider CPython the reference platform. There is a known bug in the Java regex library that sun marked as wontfix that can cause occasional runaway problems with parsing templates in Jython. It is not a web2py specific issue but I thought I'd mention it. You can use unit tests with web2py. web2py it self has unit tests in the gluon/tests folder. You can run unit tests for your apps from the shell (as you would do in other Python frameworks) although you cannot run them through the web IDE. The web IDE only supports doctests and you are correct about that. Web2py is known to work with WingIDE, Eclipse and IntelliJ. It is true that web2py does not distinguishes production from debugging mode but to clarify: this is because webp2y always in production mode yet it always logs all the errors. If the current user is logged in as administator he/she has access to the error tickets and error tracebacks. Web2py follows PEP8 internally but it does not import application code, executes it. In this environment it exposes some symbols. Some symbols are per-http-request. Some symbols are system wide. The latter are all caps because should be treated as constants and not modified. I feel this is consistent with PEP8. The naming scheme is explained in the first chapter of the manual. You are also right that web2py has a DAL, not an ORM. The main difference is that in a ORM a table is a class and a record is an instance of that class. In the web2py DAL the table concept is a class but each table is an instance and each record is a dictionary. In my view both approaches are object oriented. For example this is a query with the web2py DAL: for row in db(db.mytable.myfield0).select(): print row.myfield and this the same query with the Django ORM: for row in Mytable.objects.filter(myfield__lt=0): print row.myfield In my opinion the former looks more OO than the latter.
