Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
On Thursday, 4 August 2011 00:25:19 UTC+2, Phyo Arkar wrote: 14 MB is small for you Dosen't mean thats small for other part of of the world. Here connection speed is Averaged to 64 kbit/s to 256kbit/s and random (Frequent) disconnects , people believes 1 MB is already big. zipped web2py is already 6.9MB. Plus Bandwidth concern. I use my own Dedicated and VPS servers to host. They are already busy , and Bigger file-size = more bandwidth , 10MB * Download already 10 GB . If this become popular , bandwidth cost will be great.. I reread your initial post and see that you want to offer download bundles of your apps packaged together with web2py. I suggest you do what I did, which is run an application called TreeSizeFree on your web2py folder, and find all the large files that are not needed and delete them. Here I am referring to things like README, and so on. How do you deal with the Python dependency?
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Everything else is pretty much decoupled. sqlhtml.py depends on dal.py and html.py. shell.py depends on everything because acts like main but from shell. Thanks massimo , But things like contrib, which suppose to be not very critical module , but it cannot be removed coz important module like main.py html.py depends on contrib. And if i decide , OK i can live without html helpers and goes to remove html.py, but i can't coz it is used by many important modules : globals.py:from html import xmlescape, TABLE, TR, PRE html.py:from htmlentitydefs import name2codepoint main.py:from html import URL as Url restricted.py:from html import BEAUTIFY sanitizer.py:from htmllib import HTMLParser sanitizer.py:from htmlentitydefs import entitydefs serializers.py:from html import TAG serializers.py:from html import xmlescape sqlhtml.py:from html import XML, SPAN, TAG, A, DIV, UL, LI, TEXTAREA, BR, IMG, SCRIPT sqlhtml.py:from html import FORM, INPUT, LABEL, OPTION, SELECT sqlhtml.py:from html import TABLE, THEAD, TBODY, TR, TD, TH sqlhtml.py:from html import URL as Url tools.py.orig:from html import * and so on .. I reread your initial post and see that you want to offer download bundles of your apps packaged together with web2py. I suggest you do what I did, which is run an application called TreeSizeFree on your web2py folder, and find all the large files that are not needed and delete them. Here I am referring to things like README, and so on. Thanks , i will see that app. How do you deal with the Python dependency? That is one of the problem too, i also made a question about Python Dependency on StackOverflow , if it is possible to include directly inside a bundle. Results are good for Windows coz it have Portable Python but not so well for *Nix variants . http://stackoverflow.com/questions/6705193/easy-deploying-of-python-and-application-in-one-bundle-for-linux On 8/4/11, cjrh caleb.hatti...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, 4 August 2011 00:25:19 UTC+2, Phyo Arkar wrote: 14 MB is small for you Dosen't mean thats small for other part of of the world. Here connection speed is Averaged to 64 kbit/s to 256kbit/s and random (Frequent) disconnects , people believes 1 MB is already big. zipped web2py is already 6.9MB. Plus Bandwidth concern. I use my own Dedicated and VPS servers to host. They are already busy , and Bigger file-size = more bandwidth , 10MB * Download already 10 GB . If this become popular , bandwidth cost will be great.. I reread your initial post and see that you want to offer download bundles of your apps packaged together with web2py. I suggest you do what I did, which is run an application called TreeSizeFree on your web2py folder, and find all the large files that are not needed and delete them. Here I am referring to things like README, and so on. How do you deal with the Python dependency?
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Here is a printout showing the general space consumption (attached). My web2py src, not including the .hg folder is about 14.3MB. web2py_size.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:48 AM, cjrh wrote: Here is a printout showing the general space consumption (attached). My web2py src, not including the .hg folder is about 14.3MB.web2py_size.pdf Hmm. I've got iPhone apps 20 times that size...
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
That was my feeling also.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
I agree, that size is small even on embedded systems by now... Anyway trying to keep it small is always a good thing IMHO. mic 2011/8/3 Jonathan Lundell jlund...@pobox.com: On Aug 3, 2011, at 3:48 AM, cjrh wrote: Here is a printout showing the general space consumption (attached). My web2py src, not including the .hg folder is about 14.3MB.web2py_size.pdf Hmm. I've got iPhone apps 20 times that size...
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
On Wednesday, 3 August 2011 16:22:46 UTC+2, mcm wrote: I agree, that size is small even on embedded systems by now... Anyway trying to keep it small is always a good thing IMHO. I think the word small is the wrong word to use here. It doesn't really mean anything. It is a relative word that only has meaning in comparison to something else. If there are files within web2py that are not used, then they should be removed regardless of the effect on size. I think the OP was saying or suggesting that it should be possible to remove files that are not needed on a per-installation basis. But my follow-up question to that would be why? Sheer size doesn't seem to be a compelling-enough reason by itself.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Syst admin like make system hardening... That could be an answer... Richard On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 10:34 AM, cjrh caleb.hatti...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 3 August 2011 16:22:46 UTC+2, mcm wrote: I agree, that size is small even on embedded systems by now... Anyway trying to keep it small is always a good thing IMHO. I think the word small is the wrong word to use here. It doesn't really mean anything. It is a relative word that only has meaning in comparison to something else. If there are files within web2py that are not used, then they should be removed regardless of the effect on size. I think the OP was saying or suggesting that it should be possible to remove files that are not needed on a per-installation basis. But my follow-up question to that would be why? Sheer size doesn't seem to be a compelling-enough reason by itself.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Syst admin like make system hardening... That could be an answer... Yes i am more into Sys Admin than web-developer , you've read my mind Richard Vézina Ok my concern is not really about the File size but the Code Base size (lines of code , number of features). Here is what i have: 1 . Its best to keep as light ( codebase wise ) as possible . 2 . When you know features in this module is not going to be use , you should be able to remove it. 3 . Smaller codebase == Easier to debug 4 . Easier to Debug == Easier to Modify == More incentives for Contributions 5 . Sys admins hates Bloat-ness (even tho we are FAT :P ) 6 . Security , easier to control when unwanted modules can be removed. I also still care about file-size too : 14 MB is small for you Dosen't mean thats small for other part of of the world. Here connection speed is Averaged to 64 kbit/s to 256kbit/s and random (Frequent) disconnects , people believes 1 MB is already big. zipped web2py is already 6.9MB. Plus Bandwidth concern. I use my own Dedicated and VPS servers to host. They are already busy , and Bigger file-size = more bandwidth , 10MB * Download already 10 GB . If this become popular , bandwidth cost will be great.. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:04 PM, cjrh caleb.hatti...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 3 August 2011 16:22:46 UTC+2, mcm wrote: I agree, that size is small even on embedded systems by now... Anyway trying to keep it small is always a good thing IMHO. I think the word small is the wrong word to use here. It doesn't really mean anything. It is a relative word that only has meaning in comparison to something else. If there are files within web2py that are not used, then they should be removed regardless of the effect on size. I think the OP was saying or suggesting that it should be possible to remove files that are not needed on a per-installation basis. But my follow-up question to that would be why? Sheer size doesn't seem to be a compelling-enough reason by itself.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Plus Bandwidth concern. I use my own Dedicated and VPS servers to host. They are already busy , and Bigger file-size = more bandwidth , 10MB * Download already 10 GB . If this become popular , bandwidth cost will be great.. Errata: 10MB * 1000 Downloads already 10GB. My bandwidth limit is 80 GB amonth. On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: Syst admin like make system hardening... That could be an answer... Yes i am more into Sys Admin than web-developer , you've read my mind Richard Vézina Ok my concern is not really about the File size but the Code Base size (lines of code , number of features). Here is what i have: 1 . Its best to keep as light ( codebase wise ) as possible . 2 . When you know features in this module is not going to be use , you should be able to remove it. 3 . Smaller codebase == Easier to debug 4 . Easier to Debug == Easier to Modify == More incentives for Contributions 5 . Sys admins hates Bloat-ness (even tho we are FAT :P ) 6 . Security , easier to control when unwanted modules can be removed. I also still care about file-size too : 14 MB is small for you Dosen't mean thats small for other part of of the world. Here connection speed is Averaged to 64 kbit/s to 256kbit/s and random (Frequent) disconnects , people believes 1 MB is already big. zipped web2py is already 6.9MB. Plus Bandwidth concern. I use my own Dedicated and VPS servers to host. They are already busy , and Bigger file-size = more bandwidth , 10MB * Download already 10 GB . If this become popular , bandwidth cost will be great.. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:04 PM, cjrh caleb.hatti...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 3 August 2011 16:22:46 UTC+2, mcm wrote: I agree, that size is small even on embedded systems by now... Anyway trying to keep it small is always a good thing IMHO. I think the word small is the wrong word to use here. It doesn't really mean anything. It is a relative word that only has meaning in comparison to something else. If there are files within web2py that are not used, then they should be removed regardless of the effect on size. I think the OP was saying or suggesting that it should be possible to remove files that are not needed on a per-installation basis. But my follow-up question to that would be why? Sheer size doesn't seem to be a compelling-enough reason by itself.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Actually more Modularizing inside Gluon should be made easy. putting all core features into gluon/core , everything that related into gluon/dal , those can be removed without problem into its own folders etc. I will look into this first. On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:58 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.com wrote: Plus Bandwidth concern. I use my own Dedicated and VPS servers to host. They are already busy , and Bigger file-size = more bandwidth , 10MB * Download already 10 GB . If this become popular , bandwidth cost will be great.. Errata: 10MB * 1000 Downloads already 10GB. My bandwidth limit is 80 GB amonth. On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:55 AM, Phyo Arkar phyo.arkarl...@gmail.comwrote: Syst admin like make system hardening... That could be an answer... Yes i am more into Sys Admin than web-developer , you've read my mind Richard Vézina Ok my concern is not really about the File size but the Code Base size (lines of code , number of features). Here is what i have: 1 . Its best to keep as light ( codebase wise ) as possible . 2 . When you know features in this module is not going to be use , you should be able to remove it. 3 . Smaller codebase == Easier to debug 4 . Easier to Debug == Easier to Modify == More incentives for Contributions 5 . Sys admins hates Bloat-ness (even tho we are FAT :P ) 6 . Security , easier to control when unwanted modules can be removed. I also still care about file-size too : 14 MB is small for you Dosen't mean thats small for other part of of the world. Here connection speed is Averaged to 64 kbit/s to 256kbit/s and random (Frequent) disconnects , people believes 1 MB is already big. zipped web2py is already 6.9MB. Plus Bandwidth concern. I use my own Dedicated and VPS servers to host. They are already busy , and Bigger file-size = more bandwidth , 10MB * Download already 10 GB . If this become popular , bandwidth cost will be great.. On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 9:04 PM, cjrh caleb.hatti...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, 3 August 2011 16:22:46 UTC+2, mcm wrote: I agree, that size is small even on embedded systems by now... Anyway trying to keep it small is always a good thing IMHO. I think the word small is the wrong word to use here. It doesn't really mean anything. It is a relative word that only has meaning in comparison to something else. If there are files within web2py that are not used, then they should be removed regardless of the effect on size. I think the OP was saying or suggesting that it should be possible to remove files that are not needed on a per-installation basis. But my follow-up question to that would be why? Sheer size doesn't seem to be a compelling-enough reason by itself.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Can you make any specific suggestions on what could or should be removed? As far as I can tell, there is not a lot of stuff that is unused. It's quite rare to use Web2py without a database. The examples app and language files are probably rarely used but aren't much harm. What else would you like to remove?
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Check it out : One example. You cant just remove contrib at all. It will screwup all the html helper check this : $ cat html.py | grep ^from from HTMLParser import HTMLParser from htmlentitydefs import name2codepoint from contrib.markmin.markmin2html import render from storage import Storage from highlight import highlight from utils import web2py_uuid, hmac_hash you cant just remove utils also that will screw up html.py too Too many modules reference each other. as a whole frame work it is good but if you want to strip down into smaller , lighter web2py , you will run up into lots of problem.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
I know i can remove all the apps . yes i had allready done that in my work project. On 8/2/11, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, August 1, 2011 6:45:52 PM UTC-4, Phyo Arkar wrote: I haven't test yest. But i am not sure if i remove a module it will break some other features as web2py does magic import not static. Right, I guess you can't actually delete DAL because it is automatically imported by the framework. I think you can probably delete tools.py (Auth, Crud, Mail). And you should be able to delete any of the apps. Anthony
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
I know i can remove all the apps . yes i had allready done that in my work project. On 8/2/11, Anthony abasta...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, August 1, 2011 6:45:52 PM UTC-4, Phyo Arkar wrote: I haven't test yest. But i am not sure if i remove a module it will break some other features as web2py does magic import not static. Right, I guess you can't actually delete DAL because it is automatically imported by the framework. I think you can probably delete tools.py (Auth, Crud, Mail). And you should be able to delete any of the apps. Anthony
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
Are you just looking to save a few kilobytes? That doesn't really seem worthwhile to me.
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
On Monday, August 1, 2011 6:06:11 PM UTC-4, Phyo Arkar wrote: As web2py grow bigger and bigger : - There are many many features which are not used, just sits around. - If we dont want , have to remove them by hand from web2py - If we just want to release a standalone application, web2py is already too big - if i want to strip down features i have to look into web2py code , modifying , removing stuff , that will break things and every web2py update i have to redo that work. May be in Future , in backward-incompatible version of web2py(may be also possible in this version) , shouldn't we separate web2py into separate components eg: Web2py-Core (Main web2py Rocket, MVC,Routing) Web2py-DAL (DAL SPecific,auth,curd) Web2py-Extras (Extra web2py Examples,scaffolding) Web2py-Admin (Admin interface) All of these things are already modular in the sense that you can get rid of any of them by simply deleting specific files or folders (i.e., you don't have to edit any code). Are you saying you just want an easier way to download/install exactly what you need without having to bother with any deleting? Anthony
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
I'm not sure this would make sense. Right now, the only extra things you get besides Core + DAL are the applications and some docs which are simple to delete. Maybe I'd need to see a real example of what you are talking about. Can't you just distribute a package with your app in /applications?
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
I haven't test yest. But i am not sure if i remove a module it will break some other features as web2py does magic import not static. And if new version of web2py comes , i just want to upgrade it in my app. And i don't want to remove them all again (also new files). On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 5:11 AM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure this would make sense. Right now, the only extra things you get besides Core + DAL are the applications and some docs which are simple to delete. Maybe I'd need to see a real example of what you are talking about. Can't you just distribute a package with your app in /applications?
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
What specifically do you want to remove? I believe you can safely delete these directories: /doc /scipts /applications/admin /applications/examples /applications/welcome In your app, you can delete controllers/appadmin.py
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
I guess you can't delete /admin if you are starting web2py with rocket and cron enabled. On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:51 PM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: What specifically do you want to remove? I believe you can safely delete these directories: /doc /scipts /applications/admin /applications/examples /applications/welcome In your app, you can delete controllers/appadmin.py -- -- Bruno Rocha [ About me: http://zerp.ly/rochacbruno ] [ Aprenda a programar: http://CursoDePython.com.br ] [ O seu aliado nos cuidados com os animais: http://AnimalSystem.com.br ] [ Consultoria em desenvolvimento web: http://www.blouweb.com ]
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
On Aug 1, 2011, at 3:59 PM, Bruno Rocha wrote: I guess you can't delete /admin if you are starting web2py with rocket and cron enabled. How come? [Isn't 'how come' an odd idiom?] Most of gluon/contrib could probably go away, depending on the environment. And gluon/tests. On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:51 PM, pbreit pbreitenb...@gmail.com wrote: What specifically do you want to remove? I believe you can safely delete these directories: /doc /scipts /applications/admin /applications/examples /applications/welcome In your app, you can delete controllers/appadmin.py
Re: [web2py] Do we need a Web2py micro-framework , or split web2py into multiple components ?
On Monday, August 1, 2011 6:45:52 PM UTC-4, Phyo Arkar wrote: I haven't test yest. But i am not sure if i remove a module it will break some other features as web2py does magic import not static. Right, I guess you can't actually delete DAL because it is automatically imported by the framework. I think you can probably delete tools.py (Auth, Crud, Mail). And you should be able to delete any of the apps. Anthony
