Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey
Where can we see the results to date? Also there should be a closing date for the survey and it should also be announced to this DL. Konrad Sent from my BlackBerry on the Rogers Wireless Network - Original Message - From: Maciej Stachowiak [mailto:m...@apple.com] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 02:38 AM To: Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org Cc: WebKit Development webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey I added a Both Git and Subversion option. Unfortunately, I can't change the question after the fact to allowing multiple options to be checked. Anyone else with an unusual answer should just fill in the Other (please specify) option. Regards, Maciej On Mar 9, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Adam Barth wrote: Can you add an option for folks who use both git and SVN? I use both frequently. Thanks, Adam On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Since the answer to this factual question seems to be of interest to some people, here's a survey about what version control tools people use to access the WebKit repository, and approximate contribution level. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JQMW2QV (Note that it doesn't ask about preference for change, just what people use currently.) Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev - This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey
Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors On Mar 10, 2012, at 7:47 AM, Konrad Piascik wrote: Where can we see the results to date? Also there should be a closing date for the survey and it should also be announced to this DL. Konrad Sent from my BlackBerry on the Rogers Wireless Network - Original Message - From: Maciej Stachowiak [mailto:m...@apple.com] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 02:38 AM To: Adam Barth aba...@webkit.org Cc: WebKit Development webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey I added a Both Git and Subversion option. Unfortunately, I can't change the question after the fact to allowing multiple options to be checked. Anyone else with an unusual answer should just fill in the Other (please specify) option. Regards, Maciej On Mar 9, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Adam Barth wrote: Can you add an option for folks who use both git and SVN? I use both frequently. Thanks, Adam On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Since the answer to this factual question seems to be of interest to some people, here's a survey about what version control tools people use to access the WebKit repository, and approximate contribution level. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/JQMW2QV (Note that it doesn't ask about preference for change, just what people use currently.) Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev - This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. - Ryosuke ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey
On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
Direct link to results: http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4 On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey
I checked non-contributor thinking being a contributor meant being listed on this page http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKit%20Team even though I've landed 10+ patches. I don't want my vote to be discounted. I use git only. Konrad Sent from my BlackBerry on the Rogers Wireless Network From: Maciej Stachowiak [mailto:m...@apple.com] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 02:52 PM To: Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org Cc: Konrad Piascik; webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.commailto:m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej - This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
I will also post the results split out by contribution level once the survey closes. Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Jon Lee wrote: Direct link to results: http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4 On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey
It's just supposed to mean anyone who has contributed, and any code contribution certainly counts. In the new survey, you can edit your answers after submitting them. Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:59 PM, Konrad Piascik wrote: I checked non-contributor thinking being a contributor meant being listed on this page http://trac.webkit.org/wiki/WebKit%20Team even though I've landed 10+ patches. I don't want my vote to be discounted. I use git only. Konrad Sent from my BlackBerry on the Rogers Wireless Network From: Maciej Stachowiak [mailto:m...@apple.com] Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 02:52 PM To: Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.org Cc: Konrad Piascik; webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Version control survey On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej - This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
I do think that we should also be considering what the responders are doing --
eg. do you work mostly on the core engine (WebCore, JSC, etc) vs. platform
specific engine work (eg.
WebCore/platform/graphics/{cg,cairo,skia,backendofdoom}) vs. WebKit API stuff
vs. release branching, etc
I think it would be worth tracking these differences for a number of reasons
* There are a number of reviewers who don't do substantial amounts of work
directly in the repo anymore, longterm apple and google contributors who no
longer work exclusively on webkit (on that note do we want to have some kind of
reviewer expiration?)
* Fairly elitist, but surely the opinion of people who work on core engine tech
should have more say than people working on the periphery: core engine work
benefits _everyone_ so I feel more weight should be given there
* The needs of a contributor are fairly strongly influenced by what they're
doing -- people working on build release branches, etc frequently want to do
the sorts of things that git is far better at than svn, but people just working
on single monolithic patches seem to prefer svn.
* A problem we these kinds of survey is that they are inherently biased in
favour of people who want change, people who don't tend to ignore them - I had
basically been ignoring this thread because it was going on and on and on
without actually adding any new information over the last git vs. svn debate,
had done nothing to change my mind, etc - i feel that I am not alone in this
kind of mental exhaustion (see
http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/post/19019677135/webkit-dev-this-week)
Finally: I use git-svn, it allows me to do everything that I want to do that
git is meant to be good at, so I'm not sure why people keep saying that the
choice is between sticking with svn, or making everyone switch to git. My
counter argument to git-svn is slow so we should all use git is git-svn is
slow and this annoys me so i'm going to contribute patches to git to fix that.
--Oliver
On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
I will also post the results split out by contribution level once the survey
closes.
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Jon Lee wrote:
Direct link to results:
http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
Hi folks,
I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than
100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness.
Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th.
http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com
wrote:
Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live
responses without paying them money. Current results:
- 97 people have answered
- About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey)
- Aabout 20% use Subversion only
- About 13% use Git and Subversion
- No one checked Other
As far as contribution levels of the responders:
- 37% are WebKit reviewers
- 25% are WebKit committers
- 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers
yet)
- 13% are not WebKit contributors
Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers?
I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by
non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which
version control system is more popular in general public.
I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and
reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to
the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have
it.
I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors
who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository.
The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout
instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an
alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at
http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are
buried in the wiki.
Regards,
Maciej
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
This survey is just meant to check what people are currently using to access
the WebKit repository, it's not a preference poll for change. If we were
deciding on making a change, we'd probably aim for rough consensus rather than
voting. However, knowing what people currently use to access the repo is a
relevant fact.
I have sympathy for your comments, but I don't want to make the survey overly
fine-grained in judging different types of WebKit contributors.
In my opinion, the level of SVN use shown in both surveys indicates to me that
we should probably keep supporting it, unless most of the SVN users would want
to switch to Git. In particular, the second survey so far is showing that SVN
use is somewhat higher among committers and reviewers than among the general
population.
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Oliver Hunt wrote:
I do think that we should also be considering what the responders are doing
-- eg. do you work mostly on the core engine (WebCore, JSC, etc) vs. platform
specific engine work (eg.
WebCore/platform/graphics/{cg,cairo,skia,backendofdoom}) vs. WebKit API stuff
vs. release branching, etc
I think it would be worth tracking these differences for a number of reasons
* There are a number of reviewers who don't do substantial amounts of work
directly in the repo anymore, longterm apple and google contributors who no
longer work exclusively on webkit (on that note do we want to have some kind
of reviewer expiration?)
* Fairly elitist, but surely the opinion of people who work on core engine
tech should have more say than people working on the periphery: core engine
work benefits _everyone_ so I feel more weight should be given there
* The needs of a contributor are fairly strongly influenced by what they're
doing -- people working on build release branches, etc frequently want to do
the sorts of things that git is far better at than svn, but people just
working on single monolithic patches seem to prefer svn.
* A problem we these kinds of survey is that they are inherently biased in
favour of people who want change, people who don't tend to ignore them - I
had basically been ignoring this thread because it was going on and on and on
without actually adding any new information over the last git vs. svn debate,
had done nothing to change my mind, etc - i feel that I am not alone in this
kind of mental exhaustion (see
http://webkitmemes.tumblr.com/post/19019677135/webkit-dev-this-week)
Finally: I use git-svn, it allows me to do everything that I want to do that
git is meant to be good at, so I'm not sure why people keep saying that the
choice is between sticking with svn, or making everyone switch to git. My
counter argument to git-svn is slow so we should all use git is git-svn is
slow and this annoys me so i'm going to contribute patches to git to fix
that.
--Oliver
On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:00 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
I will also post the results split out by contribution level once the survey
closes.
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:58 PM, Jon Lee wrote:
Direct link to results:
http://kwiksurveys.com/results-overview.php?surveyID=LODHNK_f6f04dadmode=4
On Mar 10, 2012, at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
Hi folks,
I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more
than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money.
Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th.
http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad
Regards,
Maciej
On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote:
On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote:
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com
wrote:
Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to
live responses without paying them money. Current results:
- 97 people have answered
- About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey)
- Aabout 20% use Subversion only
- About 13% use Git and Subversion
- No one checked Other
As far as contribution levels of the responders:
- 37% are WebKit reviewers
- 25% are WebKit committers
- 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or
reviewers yet)
- 13% are not WebKit contributors
Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers?
I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by
non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which
version control system is more popular in general public.
I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and
reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to
the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have
it.
I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors
who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit
repository. The fact
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
I have a vague recollection that we've instrumented the chromium tools so that we can tell who is using git vs. svn and (I think) from which platforms. If there's interest, I can dig up what we did and see if we can use the same technique on our tools. -- Dirk On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Git?
On Mar 9, 2012, at 12:30 PM, Mark Rowe wrote: What you'll find is that the vast majority of SVN users are simply not participating in this email thread. You'll also find that many people that use git-svn are happy enough with the status quo since it gives those who chose to use it most of the benefits of a pure Git setup without forcing it on others. In my opinion a substantial benefit needs to be demonstrated in order to convince the existing SVN users, many of which are substantial long-term contributors to the project, that it's worth it to them to relearn how to contribute to WebKit. And I do feel that SVN users need to want to switch to Git in order for it to be worth pursuing such a switch. As a heavy Git user myself I've not seen any arguments in this thread that would be convincing to someone not already familiar with Git. I think Mark makes a couple of very good points here. As an svn user, I'm under no illusion about the fact that git is clearly a more powerful tool, and that it's important that we support git access for contributors who need it. However I find that personally I work much more efficiently in svn – my needs are modest and I find git overly complex for my very simple requirements. I would be happy to give greater consideration to moving to git if it would significantly benefit either me or the project as a whole for me to do so. Reading through this thread, it's not obvious to me that accommodating both svn and git users is a huge burden on the project. I hope this is the case, because I have to say, the status quo seems pretty good (which isn't to say there aren't ways we could improve our processes – there are a few good suggestions in this thread). It seems beneficial to the project to accommodate the needs of a wide range of contributors as well as we reasonable can, and it seems that we are in a fortunate position with regard to version control where we are already doing so very well. I would hope this would only change if there were good reason to do so. cheers, G. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Git?
Well, the more git-idiomatic usage is to git commit your work in progress often, in particular before updating. This wouldn't touch Node.h at all, it just upates the index (in the .git hidden subdir). Then the rebase also wouldn't touch Node.h, unless there were changes to it upstream. I just recommended the stash/update/pop sequence because it more closely matched the SVN workflow which you like, and I'm trying to figure out how hard it would be to support this workflow with git. I hadn't thought about the issue of extra file touches, though - good catch. Here's a better alternative: git commit -a -c temp commit git pull --rebase origin/master (fix any conflicts and finish the rebase with git rebase --continue if necessary) git reset HEAD^ Instead of using the stash, that puts all your working copy changes into a commit, fetches, and then gets rid of the commit (leaving the changes still in the working copy). There might be some weirdness if there are new files/subdirs instead of just changes to existing files - I'd need to check how that gets handled and possibly tweak some commandline parameters. From: webkit-dev-boun...@lists.webkit.org [webkit-dev-boun...@lists.webkit.org] on behalf of Ryosuke Niwa [rn...@webkit.org] Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 7:01 PM To: Ashod Nakashian Cc: WebKit Development Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Git? First, a follow up on my old post since my message was cut off in the middle: On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryosuke Niwa rn...@webkit.orgmailto:rn...@webkit.org wrote: On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Joe Mason jma...@rim.commailto:jma...@rim.com wrote: This is only slightly more complicated I'd say astoundingly more complicated because of the fact that you're unapplying changes, updating the checkout, and reapplying changes. This seemingly innocent sequence of operations have an annoying side-effects of touching all files you've modified locally and haven't committed. So for example if you have any changes to Node.h and run this set of operations, then git will touch Node.h twice by stashing and applying. This would mean that I would be rebuilding the world even if all changes I get from masters were in webkitpy or LayoutTests. Are there an easy way to work around this issue as well? (other than committing changes, of course) On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Ashod Nakashian ashodnakash...@yahoo.commailto:ashodnakash...@yahoo.com wrote: After all, what prompted me to raise this issue is because some svn scripts are outdated and before fixing them I thought may be there wasn't much use for them in the first place (otherwise, someone with a bigger contribution volume would certainly have noticed and fixed them sooner than me). I suspect the only reason the particular bug hadn't been fixed is that we have very few contributors who develop on Windows. - Ryosuke - This transmission (including any attachments) may contain confidential information, privileged material (including material protected by the solicitor-client or other applicable privileges), or constitute non-public information. Any use of this information by anyone other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately reply to the sender and delete this information from your system. Use, dissemination, distribution, or reproduction of this transmission by unintended recipients is not authorized and may be unlawful. ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] An incremental approach (was Re: UPDATED Re: Version control survey)
On 10/03/2012 21:46, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: In my opinion, the level of SVN use shown in both surveys indicates to me that we should probably keep supporting it, unless most of the SVN users would want to switch to Git. In particular, the second survey so far is showing that SVN use is somewhat higher among committers and reviewers than among the general population. This raises an interesting point. The repository at git.webkit.org is not so great to work with as a committer / reviewer, and as Mark points out it's not too friendly on the servers either. As an incremental approach, it might be a good idea to first resolve some of the issues in the mirror, including its layout and usability vs. SVN. Without this work being done, the benefit of git over svn is not so clear to me. The way I see it, a better mirror would address: *ChangeLogs* The ChangeLog entries in the git history mean every local merge, revert or cherry pick is non-trivial, so you get an ugly non-linear history whether or not you use a tool to auto-resolve ChangeLog conflicts. Possible solution would be to do a new migration where the ChangeLog entries are folded into the commit message the files themselves are eliminated from the history, as if they never existed. Maybe keep the original ChangeLog in an overlay branch for posterity, since these files are sometimes hand-edited after the fact. *Author Names *The committer names don't have the full author name in the git mirror right now, just an SVN id. This info could be extracted out of a database or the ChangeLog message if one exists, during import. People switch companies and email addresses over time, so that would have to be accounted for. This could go some way to alleviating Oliver's concern about inflation in reviewer / committer population by corollary: If the history is transformed to identify the author of an external contribution in cases where the patch is landed by a reviewer or commit-qu...@webkit.org, these guys would see their name next to their work and get credited on places like Github and Ohloh. Would result in less pressure amongst casual contributors to get commit access, especially for those who care about the 'creds' or are doing it to improve their CV to get a pay rise. *Layout and repo size * The git repository with full history is enormous. I don't really need the full history of every pixel test result for every port, ever, including long-dead ports, and likewise don't really want to pull it every time the expectations get updated. It's not so much about disk space (everyone has plenty these days). The bigger problem is that git grep and git pickaxe search through local git history is so slow you actually end up having a better experience using the search feature on Trac. One less benefit over SVN. A proposal (or even better, proof of concept) for git repository layout where the 'heavy' generated paths are split out into git submodules separate from the source code would make me feel more comfortable with the whole idea. Also, should be possible to do a shallow clone of these yet still be able to commit and push back upstream (if git supports this, git experts?) I did some of the early WebKit git tooling but to be honest this is a lot of work for someone to take on. But seeing some of the energy in the debate, someone might be willing to have a go. I do think that addressing these issues before advocating a switch would strengthen the case, at least with reviewers who had a mixed experience like mine. Regards, Alp ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Git?
I think one factor that makes many people stick with SVN is that emulating the
SVN-style workflow in Git is pretty complicated. Let's consider a typical SVN
user's process:
1) Develop one patch at a time.
2) During development, often update his sources to match the repository.
3) When done, create a patch and get it reviewed.
4) When the patch is reviewed, commit it.
The interaction with the version-control system for each of these steps is an
obvious single step with SVN. With git, for at least some of these, you will
end up needing multiple non-obvious (to an SVN user anyway) commands. All of
your examples below for step 2 are complicated and have surprising side effects.
The usual responses to this concern are either you can write a script to wrap
that or you should just change your workflow to get the full power of git.
But neither of these answers is very persuasive to a person happy with the
above workflow. When we had to do the CVS to SVN transition, there was no
hesitation because everyone could still use the exact same workflow, but now it
was also possible to do more stuff.
I do think that with the right project-wide scripts we could abstract away from
the VCS a little and make the transition less painful. I do most of my patch
creation and committing with webkit-patch(*) these days, because it actually
saves steps over the raw tools. However, update-webkit, which handles the
remaining SVN-like workflow step, doesn't follow any of the approaches, instead
it does this:
sub runGitUpdate()
{
# Doing a git fetch first allows setups with svn-remote.svn.fetch =
trunk:refs/remotes/origin/master
# to perform the rebase much much faster.
system(git, fetch) == 0 or die;
if (isGitSVN()) {
system(git, svn, rebase) == 0 or die;
} else {
# This will die if branch.$BRANCHNAME.merge isn't set, which is
# almost certainly what we want.
system(git, pull) == 0 or die;
}
}
Perhaps improving runGitUpdate() would be one way to make it easier for more
people to try Git.
Regards,
Maciej
(*) I'm not sure offhand if webkit-patch land will take care of all three of
the steps of adding, committing and pushing/dcommiting which the SVN-like
workflow treats as a single step.
On Mar 10, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Joe Mason wrote:
Well, the more git-idiomatic usage is to git commit your work in progress
often, in particular before updating. This wouldn't touch Node.h at all, it
just upates the index (in the .git hidden subdir). Then the rebase also
wouldn't touch Node.h, unless there were changes to it upstream.
I just recommended the stash/update/pop sequence because it more closely
matched the SVN workflow which you like, and I'm trying to figure out how
hard it would be to support this workflow with git. I hadn't thought about
the issue of extra file touches, though - good catch.
Here's a better alternative:
git commit -a -c temp commit git pull --rebase origin/master
(fix any conflicts and finish the rebase with git rebase --continue if
necessary)
git reset HEAD^
Instead of using the stash, that puts all your working copy changes into a
commit, fetches, and then gets rid of the commit (leaving the changes still
in the working copy). There might be some weirdness if there are new
files/subdirs instead of just changes to existing files - I'd need to check
how that gets handled and possibly tweak some commandline parameters.
From: webkit-dev-boun...@lists.webkit.org
[webkit-dev-boun...@lists.webkit.org] on behalf of Ryosuke Niwa
[rn...@webkit.org]
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 7:01 PM
To: Ashod Nakashian
Cc: WebKit Development
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Git?
First, a follow up on my old post since my message was cut off in the middle:
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Ryosuke Niwa
rn...@webkit.orgmailto:rn...@webkit.org wrote:
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:19 PM, Joe Mason
jma...@rim.commailto:jma...@rim.com wrote:
This is only slightly more complicated
I'd say astoundingly more complicated because of
the fact that you're unapplying changes, updating the checkout, and
reapplying changes. This seemingly innocent sequence of operations have an
annoying side-effects of touching all files you've modified locally and
haven't committed.
So for example if you have any changes to Node.h and run this set of
operations, then git will touch Node.h twice by stashing and applying. This
would mean that I would be rebuilding the world even if all changes I get
from masters were in webkitpy or LayoutTests.
Are there an easy way to work around this issue as well? (other than
committing changes, of course)
On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Ashod Nakashian
ashodnakash...@yahoo.commailto:ashodnakash...@yahoo.com wrote:
After all, what prompted me to raise this issue is because some svn scripts
are outdated and before fixing them I thought may be
Re: [webkit-dev] UPDATED Re: Version control survey
It's probably only worth it if you think such instrumentation would show significantly different results. Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Dirk Pranke wrote: I have a vague recollection that we've instrumented the chromium tools so that we can tell who is using git vs. svn and (I think) from which platforms. If there's interest, I can dig up what we did and see if we can use the same technique on our tools. -- Dirk On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Hi folks, I made a bad choice of survey site. They want to charge me to see more than 100 responses or to export the data, but they won't take my money. Sadness. Please try this survey instead, it will run through the 17th. http://kwiksurveys.com?s=LODHNK_f6f04dad Regards, Maciej On Mar 10, 2012, at 11:52 AM, Maciej Stachowiak wrote: On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:56 AM, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 10:05 AM, Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com wrote: Unfortunately SurveyMonkey sucks and I can't give everyone access to live responses without paying them money. Current results: - 97 people have answered - About 67% use Git only (this has been consistent throughout the survey) - Aabout 20% use Subversion only - About 13% use Git and Subversion - No one checked Other As far as contribution levels of the responders: - 37% are WebKit reviewers - 25% are WebKit committers - 25% are WebKit contributors (but presumably not committers or reviewers yet) - 13% are not WebKit contributors Can we see the breakdown of git/svn users among reviewers committers? I'm not certain if it's really useful to consider votes casted by non-contributors here since we're presumably not trying to decide which version control system is more popular in general public. I would indeed like to get the contributor-only (and reviewer/committer-only) statistics, but I'm having trouble upgrading to the pro account that would enable this. I'll post the data once I have it. I do think it is somewhat interesting to find out what non-contributors who nontheless check out source are using to access the WebKit repository. The fact that so many people use Git says to me that our basic checkout instructions should include the relevant git instructions as an alternative. SVN instructions are on the main site at http://www.webkit.org/building/checkout.html but Git instructions are buried in the wiki. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] exporting symbols for building .so/.dll's
On 09/03/2012 03:52, Ami Fischman wrote:
Hi webkittens,
The over-all question: how should webkit libraries declare which
symbols they export?
The trigger for the question: as described in bug 80062
https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=80062, the chromium
shared-library-based build links test code into the (non-test)
libwebkit.so target, which is terrible.
The details:
I took a crack at fixing the above bug (see patch in the bug) by
pulling the test files out of the non-test build target, and
sprinkling various {WTF,WEBKIT}_EXPORT{,DATA} macros around
declarations that need them (as discovered by build-time and run-time
failures). This style of export declaration is what the webkit
codebase does in various places (WTF
http://code.google.com/codesearch#OAMlx_jo-ck/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/JavaScriptCore/wtf/ExportMacros.hexact_package=chromiumq=WTF_EXPORTtype=csl=39,
Platform
http://code.google.com/codesearch#OAMlx_jo-ck/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/Platform/chromium/public/WebCommon.hexact_package=chromiumq=WEBKIT_EXPORTl=68,
WebCore
http://code.google.com/codesearch#OAMlx_jo-ck/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/WebCore/platform/PlatformExportMacros.hexact_package=chromiumq=define%5C%20WEBKIT_EXPORTct=rccd=2sq=l=39,
and WebKit
http://code.google.com/codesearch#OAMlx_jo-ck/src/third_party/WebKit/Source/WebKit/chromium/public/platform/WebCommon.hexact_package=chromiumq=file:%28%5E%7C/%29platform/WebCommon%5C.h$,
AFAICT), and incidentally also what the chromium project uses for its
sub-components.
But I'm told other ports use different mechanisms such as .exp.in
files
http://code.google.com/p/chromium/source/search?q=file%3ASource%2FWebCore%2FWebCore.exp.inorigq=file%3ASource%2FWebCore%2FWebCore.exp.inbtnG=Search+Trunk for
apple/mac (and maybe others for other ports? IDK).
Is there consensus on the list for what the Right Thing To Do(tm) is?
ISTM my options are:
1) Add EXPORT declarations as in the patch on the bug.
2) Drop the patch from the bug and replace it with chromium-specific
.exp.in-style files, one per layer from which I need to export
(WebCore, WTF, WebKit). And build the build-time machinery to use
them. I don't really know what's involved here and would appreciate
any pointers/hints people had if this is the way to go.
3) Something else (preferably unifying other ports' approaches).
Help me webkit-dev, you're my only hope (for consensus).
I think the export macros would only ever have made sense if they were
put there explicitly to guide refactoring of the classes into a library
/ interface structure. And this isn't the case.
At present I don't see an active effort towards that, or much interest
in defining the public interfaces in each 'module' more strictly.
They're intentionally fluid.
Having said that, the macros are /vaguely/ useful to see what could be
made private or hidden in future shuffling of the code in wtf, for
example, but that's about it.
The very fact that the export macros have to be updated with a tool
every time a library higher in the link chain uses or doesn't use a
public entry point, and that the set of imported functions or variables
varies between ports indicates that this is not going to have wide adoption.
If we follow this to the logical conclusion, no unification of granular
export lists is realistic with the current WebKit porting layer. If the
strategy were adapted to define exported functionality at class
granularity, it might just be feasible, but again that is a contract
that is begging to be broken, and besides, most toolchains lack
export-by-class so it's a moot point.
So the ultimate course of action is then to revert the macros and leave
everyone to do what they think best in terms of export lists, then tying
together those solutions where there's overlap.
The exception is, of course, clearly defined public API (of which there
is not much), such as this case where we added JS_EXPORT to the
JavaScriptCore API for the benefit of multiple ports and also consumers:
http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/28097
(In a port I worked on in the past we developed a vendor tool to detect
inter-dependencies at compile time so there were no lists to update, but
again, this would not be portable.)
Spoken with my devil's advocate hat on, would be great if you can prove
me wrong.
--
http://www.nuanti.com
the browser experts
___
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] exporting symbols for building .so/.dll's
On Sat, Mar 10, 2012 at 4:34 PM, Alp Toker a...@nuanti.com wrote: If we follow this to the logical conclusion, no unification of granular export lists is realistic with the current WebKit porting layer. If the strategy were adapted to define exported functionality at class granularity, it might just be feasible, but again that is a contract that is begging to be broken, and besides, most toolchains lack export-by-class so it's a moot point. While it seems that ports require a different set of exported macros, there are certain subsets that all ports *do* need. One example of this are symbols necessary for WebCoreInternals. I think this is a great effort, because it improves test coverage for ports that don't necessarily have the time to keep DumpRenderTree up to date. I watch a lot of the WebCoreInternals bugs and I see that maintaining export lists for different platforms, all which have their own unique way of mangling symbols, is a huge burden. So the ultimate course of action is then to revert the macros and leave everyone to do what they think best in terms of export lists, then tying together those solutions where there's overlap. I'm not sure I necessarily agree that the only answer to this problem is to continue to force all ports to maintain their own export lists. If the macros don't work out (and I'm not convinced that they cannot), then we could simply teach the tools how to mangle symbols and make a unified list of exports. Perhaps that's what you meant by tying together those solutions though. --Martin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Git?
2012/3/11 Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com: The interaction with the version-control system for each of these steps is an obvious single step with SVN. With git, for at least some of these, you will end up needing multiple non-obvious (to an SVN user anyway) commands. I understand the context of this argument and it is of course valid but it gets REALLY boring to hear this every time someone tries to make a point :) I've used svn long time ago and git ever since. For me it's no longer obvious that my local changes are not safe from merging if I do an update. It is also not obvious that I could not simply commit my patch (locally) and continue on to the next one when the changes are touching the same files etc. The 'obvious' argument should IMO be avoided at all times, because it inherently carries the notion that the svn way is somehow the de facto way of doing things in everybody's minds. It is not. It is always subjective what workflow makes sense. -- Kalle Vahlman, z...@iki.fi Powered by http://movial.com Interesting stuff at http://sandbox.movial.com ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Moving to Git?
On Mar 10, 2012, at 9:55 PM, Kalle Vahlman wrote: 2012/3/11 Maciej Stachowiak m...@apple.com: The interaction with the version-control system for each of these steps is an obvious single step with SVN. With git, for at least some of these, you will end up needing multiple non-obvious (to an SVN user anyway) commands. I understand the context of this argument and it is of course valid but it gets REALLY boring to hear this every time someone tries to make a point :) I've used svn long time ago and git ever since. For me it's no longer obvious that my local changes are not safe from merging if I do an update. It is also not obvious that I could not simply commit my patch (locally) and continue on to the next one when the changes are touching the same files etc. The 'obvious' argument should IMO be avoided at all times, because it inherently carries the notion that the svn way is somehow the de facto way of doing things in everybody's minds. It is not. It is always subjective what workflow makes sense. I think we largely agree here. Some people find the SVN workflow subjectively makes sense to them. Others find that the Git workflow subjectively makes sense to them. They are different enough that not everyone finds it natural to switch. Conveniently, we support both. Regards, Maciej ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
