Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
O Mar, 04-02-2014 ás 13:11 +0100, Osztrogonác Csaba escribiu: I've checked the full clean build time of GTK port on a quad core i5-2320 (3GHz) machine with icecc buildfarm and -j30 makeflag: - with SVG disabled:WebKit is now built (11m:58s). - with SVG enabled: WebKit is now built (13m:38s). I remember the difference being bigger, in the order of several minutes. Do you use ccache? That could explain that small difference even with clean builds. Br. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Hi, Xabier Rodríguez Calvar írta: O Mar, 04-02-2014 ás 13:11 +0100, Osztrogonác Csaba escribiu: I've checked the full clean build time of GTK port on a quad core i5-2320 (3GHz) machine with icecc buildfarm and -j30 makeflag: - with SVG disabled:WebKit is now built (11m:58s). - with SVG enabled: WebKit is now built (13m:38s). I remember the difference being bigger, in the order of several minutes. Do you use ccache? That could explain that small difference even with clean builds. Br. Of course I didn't use ccache during this measurement. :) (I don't use it anyway.) The majority of the community wanted to remove the guards, so they were removed - http://trac.webkit.org/changeset/163440 I tried to do my best, but if I did some mistake, please let me know and I will fix as soon as possible. Ossy ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Alberto Garcia írta: On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 12:43:16PM +0100, Osztrogonác Csaba wrote: The --no-svg build is broken now, and the change broke it is 11 months old change Not in the GTK+ port at least, I've been able to do builds without SVG perfectly fine, so there's probably something else wrong in your environment or the port you're using. Good point, I haven't checked GTK port, only EFL and Apple Mac and got the same build failure on both pof them. Anyway, I'm also fine with removing it. Berto ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Xabier Rodríguez Calvar írta: Sorry for the late answer, but I was in Brussels at FOSDEM. O Ven, 31-01-2014 ás 14:01 +0100, Alberto Garcia escribiu: Not in the GTK+ port at least, I've been able to do builds without SVG perfectly fine, so there's probably something else wrong in your environment or the port you're using. Anyway, I'm also fine with removing it. It saves some times in our builds and I always use it unless I have to do something with SVG. I would keep it unless it doesn't pay off the effort of maintaining it. Br. I've checked the full clean build time of GTK port on a quad core i5-2320 (3GHz) machine with icecc buildfarm and -j30 makeflag: - with SVG disabled:WebKit is now built (11m:58s). - with SVG enabled: WebKit is now built (13m:38s). The difference isn't so big. But it was clean build, I don't think if developers always do clean builds. If you don't touch SVG related files, the build time shouldn't depend on enabled/disabled SVG. In my opinion the ENABLE(SVG) flag is not to speed up clean builds, but disable SVG if you don't want to ship it. There are so many way to speed up builds: - use more cores, use icecc buildfarm, use ccache - get rid of include paths and use module relative includes (But it can be a separated thread if anybody is interested in it.) Ossy ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
I agree, the time taken to build is not really a good reason for the change or lack of - as you point out there, are many other ways to optimize the build process/server which will have wider benefits. But does anybody consider size to be an issue? SVG adds a fair chunk to the size of a binary - especially in debug builds - which is not very friendly to embedded systems. ( Real embedded, not just a small form factor $500 PC running Windows etc ) I know in general WK seems to be aimed at desktop, big mobile etc - and we tend to ignore anything not directly related to the the main builds, but even on a desktop I wouldn’t mind seeing a crusade to make things smaller. One day I’ll see my whole OS in L1 Cache…….. Steve Harry Coul sc...@cisco.com On Feb 4, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Osztrogonác Csaba o...@inf.u-szeged.hu wrote: Xabier Rodríguez Calvar írta: Sorry for the late answer, but I was in Brussels at FOSDEM. O Ven, 31-01-2014 ás 14:01 +0100, Alberto Garcia escribiu: Not in the GTK+ port at least, I've been able to do builds without SVG perfectly fine, so there's probably something else wrong in your environment or the port you're using. Anyway, I'm also fine with removing it. It saves some times in our builds and I always use it unless I have to do something with SVG. I would keep it unless it doesn't pay off the effort of maintaining it. Br. I've checked the full clean build time of GTK port on a quad core i5-2320 (3GHz) machine with icecc buildfarm and -j30 makeflag: - with SVG disabled:WebKit is now built (11m:58s). - with SVG enabled: WebKit is now built (13m:38s). The difference isn't so big. But it was clean build, I don't think if developers always do clean builds. If you don't touch SVG related files, the build time shouldn't depend on enabled/disabled SVG. In my opinion the ENABLE(SVG) flag is not to speed up clean builds, but disable SVG if you don't want to ship it. There are so many way to speed up builds: - use more cores, use icecc buildfarm, use ccache - get rid of include paths and use module relative includes (But it can be a separated thread if anybody is interested in it.) Ossy ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Steven Coul (scoul) sc...@cisco.com wrote: I agree, the time taken to build is not really a good reason for the change or lack of - as you point out there, are many other ways to optimize the build process/server which will have wider benefits. But does anybody consider size to be an issue? SVG adds a fair chunk to the size of a binary - especially in debug builds - which is not very friendly to embedded systems. ( Real embedded, not just a small form factor $500 PC running Windows etc ) I know in general WK seems to be aimed at desktop, big mobile etc - and we tend to ignore anything not directly related to the the main builds, but even on a desktop I wouldn’t mind seeing a crusade to make things smaller. One day I’ll see my whole OS in L1 Cache…….. In this case you may want to branch WebKit and remove more than just SVG. WebKit is a browser engine and should display web content. There is no doubt anymore that SVG is an integral part of the web. That is the the only decision that matters here IMO. Greetings, Dirk Steve Harry Coul sc...@cisco.com On Feb 4, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Osztrogonác Csaba o...@inf.u-szeged.hu wrote: Xabier Rodríguez Calvar írta: Sorry for the late answer, but I was in Brussels at FOSDEM. O Ven, 31-01-2014 ás 14:01 +0100, Alberto Garcia escribiu: Not in the GTK+ port at least, I've been able to do builds without SVG perfectly fine, so there's probably something else wrong in your environment or the port you're using. Anyway, I'm also fine with removing it. It saves some times in our builds and I always use it unless I have to do something with SVG. I would keep it unless it doesn't pay off the effort of maintaining it. Br. I've checked the full clean build time of GTK port on a quad core i5-2320 (3GHz) machine with icecc buildfarm and -j30 makeflag: - with SVG disabled:WebKit is now built (11m:58s). - with SVG enabled: WebKit is now built (13m:38s). The difference isn't so big. But it was clean build, I don't think if developers always do clean builds. If you don't touch SVG related files, the build time shouldn't depend on enabled/disabled SVG. In my opinion the ENABLE(SVG) flag is not to speed up clean builds, but disable SVG if you don't want to ship it. There are so many way to speed up builds: - use more cores, use icecc buildfarm, use ccache - get rid of include paths and use module relative includes (But it can be a separated thread if anybody is interested in it.) Ossy ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
My big worry about that, is that somewhere somebody is thinking about using that argument to add Flash and/or Moonlight to Webkit - and down that path madness lies ;-) There really aren’t any “size-hogs” in WK other than SVG itself - but it’s been a while since I looked I admit. I tend to think of “fork it” as a last desperate measure rather than first plan - but whatever - I was just interested in others opinions since I don’t have a horse in this race anyhow. Steve Harry Coul sc...@cisco.com On Feb 4, 2014, at 8:52 AM, Dirk Schulze k...@webkit.org wrote: On Feb 4, 2014, at 5:20 AM, Steven Coul (scoul) sc...@cisco.com wrote: I agree, the time taken to build is not really a good reason for the change or lack of - as you point out there, are many other ways to optimize the build process/server which will have wider benefits. But does anybody consider size to be an issue? SVG adds a fair chunk to the size of a binary - especially in debug builds - which is not very friendly to embedded systems. ( Real embedded, not just a small form factor $500 PC running Windows etc ) I know in general WK seems to be aimed at desktop, big mobile etc - and we tend to ignore anything not directly related to the the main builds, but even on a desktop I wouldn’t mind seeing a crusade to make things smaller. One day I’ll see my whole OS in L1 Cache…….. In this case you may want to branch WebKit and remove more than just SVG. WebKit is a browser engine and should display web content. There is no doubt anymore that SVG is an integral part of the web. That is the the only decision that matters here IMO. Greetings, Dirk Steve Harry Coul sc...@cisco.com On Feb 4, 2014, at 6:11 AM, Osztrogonác Csaba o...@inf.u-szeged.hu wrote: Xabier Rodríguez Calvar írta: Sorry for the late answer, but I was in Brussels at FOSDEM. O Ven, 31-01-2014 ás 14:01 +0100, Alberto Garcia escribiu: Not in the GTK+ port at least, I've been able to do builds without SVG perfectly fine, so there's probably something else wrong in your environment or the port you're using. Anyway, I'm also fine with removing it. It saves some times in our builds and I always use it unless I have to do something with SVG. I would keep it unless it doesn't pay off the effort of maintaining it. Br. I've checked the full clean build time of GTK port on a quad core i5-2320 (3GHz) machine with icecc buildfarm and -j30 makeflag: - with SVG disabled:WebKit is now built (11m:58s). - with SVG enabled: WebKit is now built (13m:38s). The difference isn't so big. But it was clean build, I don't think if developers always do clean builds. If you don't touch SVG related files, the build time shouldn't depend on enabled/disabled SVG. In my opinion the ENABLE(SVG) flag is not to speed up clean builds, but disable SVG if you don't want to ship it. There are so many way to speed up builds: - use more cores, use icecc buildfarm, use ccache - get rid of include paths and use module relative includes (But it can be a separated thread if anybody is interested in it.) Ossy ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
On 2/4/14, 7:08 AM, Steven Coul (scoul) wrote: My big worry about that, is that somewhere somebody is thinking about using that argument to add Flash and/or Moonlight to Webkit - and down that path madness lies ;-) There really aren’t any “size-hogs” in WK other than SVG itself - but it’s been a while since I looked I admit. I tend to think of “fork it” as a last desperate measure rather than first plan - but whatever - I was just interested in others opinions since I don’t have a horse in this race anyhow. We do worry about binary size, but removing a core feature is not a solution. There are plenty of other opportunities to improve the WebKit binary. Patches for that are welcome too ;) Cheers, Benjamin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Sorry for the late answer, but I was in Brussels at FOSDEM. O Ven, 31-01-2014 ás 14:01 +0100, Alberto Garcia escribiu: Not in the GTK+ port at least, I've been able to do builds without SVG perfectly fine, so there's probably something else wrong in your environment or the port you're using. Anyway, I'm also fine with removing it. It saves some times in our builds and I always use it unless I have to do something with SVG. I would keep it unless it doesn't pay off the effort of maintaining it. Br. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Hi, +1 for removing ENABLE(SVG) guards. The --no-svg build is broken now, and the change broke it is 11 months old change - https://trac.webkit.org/changeset/145450, so --no-svg build isn't maintained at all and nobody can use it on trunk. Let's go forward and remove the guards: https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=127991 (I started to prepare a patch, not yet finished.) Ossy no-svg build log: -- In file included from /Users/oszi/WebKit/Source/WebCore/css/BasicShapeFunctions.cpp:35: /Users/oszi/WebKit/Source/WebCore/css/CSSPrimitiveValueMappings.h:2670:27: error: use of undeclared identifier 'CSSValueAlphabetic' m_value.valueID = CSSValueAlphabetic; ^ /Users/oszi/WebKit/Source/WebCore/css/CSSPrimitiveValueMappings.h:2687:10: error: use of undeclared identifier 'CSSValueAlphabetic' case CSSValueAlphabetic: ^ /Users/oszi/WebKit/Source/WebCore/css/CSSPrimitiveValueMappings.h:4300:27: error: use of undeclared identifier 'CSSValueAlphabetic' m_value.valueID = CSSValueAlphabetic; ^ /Users/oszi/WebKit/Source/WebCore/css/CSSPrimitiveValueMappings.h:4334:10: error: use of undeclared identifier 'CSSValueAlphabetic' case CSSValueAlphabetic: ^ /Users/oszi/WebKit/Source/WebCore/css/CSSPrimitiveValueMappings.h:4846:27: error: use of undeclared identifier 'CSSValueAlphabetic' m_value.valueID = CSSValueAlphabetic; ^ /Users/oszi/WebKit/Source/WebCore/css/CSSPrimitiveValueMappings.h:4872:10: error: use of undeclared identifier 'CSSValueAlphabetic' case CSSValueAlphabetic: ^ 6 errors generated. -- On 01/29/2014 01:13 AM, Sam Weinig wrote: Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I’d like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a “minimal build” working, but I don’t think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Yes, let's remove the flag. It is too easy to break the no-SVG build and the guards uglify the code. antti On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:13 AM, Sam Weinig wei...@apple.com wrote: Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I'd like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a minimal build working, but I don't think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
I used to make no-SVG builds to save some time. But it won't make too much sense anymore to justify the effort of maintaining this flag. I support removing it. Chang On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 3:53 AM, Antti Koivisto koivi...@iki.fi wrote: Yes, let's remove the flag. It is too easy to break the no-SVG build and the guards uglify the code. antti On Wed, Jan 29, 2014 at 2:13 AM, Sam Weinig wei...@apple.com wrote: Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I'd like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a minimal build working, but I don't think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I’d like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a “minimal build” working, but I don’t think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
Not a true statement if you consider out of tree ports. None of the ports we have done at Crank have used or needed svg support and as embedded systems, they all benefit from the smaller footprint. Thanks, Thomas - Reply message - From: Sam Weinig wei...@apple.com To: webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org Development webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org Subject: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG) Date: Tue, Jan 28, 2014 18:13 Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I’d like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a “minimal build” working, but I don’t think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
On 1/28/14, 4:20 PM, Thomas Fletcher wrote: Not a true statement if you consider out of tree ports. None of the ports we have done at Crank have used or needed svg support and as embedded systems, they all benefit from the smaller footprint. Out of tree ports that do not contribute back upstream are not relevant for deciding the direction of WebKit. Do you guys help on WebKit.org? Benjamin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
On Jan 28, 2014, at 4:20 PM, Thomas Fletcher tho...@cranksoftware.com wrote: Not a true statement if you consider out of tree ports. In general, we do not take in consideration ports that don’t contribute back or live in tree. None of the ports we have done at Crank have used or needed svg support and as embedded systems, they all benefit from the smaller footprint. Since you live out of tree, you probably need to do a bit of merging anyway, so you will be free to add back the #ifdefs. - Sam___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
This sounds good to me. A WebKit without SVG support is scarcely a WebKit at all. On Jan 28, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Sam Weinig wei...@apple.com wrote: Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I’d like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a “minimal build” working, but I don’t think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
On Jan 28, 2014, at 4:51 PM, Philip Rogers p...@google.com wrote: This will make hacking on WebKit much easier. For better or worse, SVG is tightly coupled with the rest of rendering/. We recently measured SVG usage on the web and found 10% of all pageviews contain SVG. Do you plan to remove ENABLE(SVG_FONTS) as well? This is about SVG, not SVG_FONTS. And I agree that SVG can be removed. Not the latter at this point. Greetings, Dirk On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Andreas Kling akl...@apple.com wrote: This sounds good to me. A WebKit without SVG support is scarcely a WebKit at all. On Jan 28, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Sam Weinig wei...@apple.com wrote: Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I'd like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a minimal build working, but I don't think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Proposal: Remove ENABLE(SVG)
On Jan 28, 2014, at 4:51 PM, Philip Rogers p...@google.com wrote: This will make hacking on WebKit much easier. For better or worse, SVG is tightly coupled with the rest of rendering/. We recently measured SVG usage on the web and found 10% of all pageviews contain SVG. Interesting stat! Thanks. Do you plan to remove ENABLE(SVG_FONTS) as well? Not at this point. -Sam On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Andreas Kling akl...@apple.com wrote: This sounds good to me. A WebKit without SVG support is scarcely a WebKit at all. On Jan 28, 2014, at 4:13 PM, Sam Weinig wei...@apple.com wrote: Hi Everyone, While we are discussing removing #ifdefs that everyone has enabled, I’d like to propose removing ENABLE(SVG), as every port has SVG enabled. The only argument I have heard for keeping it around is to keep a “minimal build” working, but I don’t think the clutter of the #ifdefs is worth that. -Sam ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
