Maven, two apps with direct connect SSL, one works

[Ramsey Gurley]

Hi all, 

Weird problem. I have two apps. App1 works with SSL direct connect, in eclipse 
with maven and without. App2 works with SSL direct connect without maven. With 
maven, the SSL direct connect properties I have in Properties.dev are not 
located. 

The reason that happens is in ERXApplication _addAdditionalAdaptors, 
sslEnabled() is returning false. Properties.dev is the same for both, so I 
start digging. Why is it false for App2? It turns out the properties are not 
loaded, because in ERXApplication.Loader.mainBundle(), 
ClassPath.get(NSBundle.class) turns out to be null and InitMainBundle isn’t 
fired.

Well, why is that? Because in NSBundle, at line 315 in a static initializer 
block, a call to LoadBundlesFromJars ends up calling NSBundle.addBundle. This 
fires a NSBundleDidLoadNotification which triggers the above behavior before 
ClassPath is loaded at line 339 in that same static initializer block.

In App1, *there is no observer* for this notification at L315. It makes it all 
the way to NSBundle L341 where LoadBundlesFromClassPath is fired, which then 
ends up firing the notification to a now existent observer.

What’s really weird is at the last line of ERXApplication.Loader(String[]) 
constructor, there’s a addObserver for the NSBundleDidLoadNotification. Setting 
breakpoints, I can see that is done before NSBundle is referenced in both App1 
and App2. I see no place where removeObserver is ever called on the 
application, so I’m totally puzzled.

Does any of this sound familiar to anyone?

In the non maven branch, I’m just starting to look, but the line numbers are 
not lining up. It looks like the old build is finding NSBundle in 
JavaFoundation while the Maven build finds it in ERFoundation.

Thanks,

Ramsey
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Re: WOAdaptor build and test

[Chuck Hill]

Testing?  Seriously?  :-P  If it does not crash, it is tested.

Look in the archives for these threads:
WebObjects and Apache 2.4 on El Capitan
Apache Adaptor on debian:jessie

That should get you started.

Chuck





On 2016-04-06, 11:45 AM, 
"webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of Paul 
Yu"  wrote:

>Hi List
>
>Is there a procedure for building and testing WOAdaptor?
>
>Paul
>
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WOAdaptor build and test

[Paul Yu]

Hi List

Is there a procedure for building and testing WOAdaptor?

Paul

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Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[Chuck Hill]

So the negative instance/port number is, IIRC, a signal to wotask to shortcut 
the configuration and go directly to the instance.  So that might be why 
setting the Receive Timeout in JavaMonitor is not working.   I don’t recall if 
that C code looks for the site config in this case or not.  That might also be 
why setting the app up in JavaMonitor is not picking this up either.


From: Lon Varscsak >
Date: Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 10:28 AM
To: Chuck Hill >
Cc: OC >, WebObjects-Dev Mailing List 
>
Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

1) Direct Connect isn’t really an option for us (nor should it be for anyone ).
2) The URLs look like:  
http://localhost/Apps/WebObjects/SmartPractice.woa/-20001
3) We always set a port for development.
4) I did have him set the application up in Monitor with timeouts and he claims 
it didn’t work.
5) I swear I’ve done this before both ways and had it work. :(

-Lon

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Chuck Hill 
> wrote:
Ben, what do the URLs look like?  It has been ages since I set this up.  I 
think you might need to set the WOPort in Eclipse and then configure an 
application in JavaMonitor and create an instance on that port for the Receive 
Timeout to have any effect.  Or, if you are not using Apache to serve resources 
or do SSL, using DirectConnect will also avoid this error message.

Chuck





On 2016-04-06, 9:02 AM, 
"webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com
 on behalf of OC" 

 on behalf of o...@ocs.cz> wrote:

>Aha, I see — I thought Eclipse uses Direct Connect, just as Xcode used to (and 
>mine still does).
>
>In that case, beside the adaptor log, I would probably
>
>(a) try Direct Connect; no timeouts in this mode;
>(b) add extra logs to show when the R/R loop begins, how it runs, and when it 
>ends, to see what takes that long (and how long precisely).
>
>All the best,
>OC
>
>On 6. 4. 2016, at 17:55, Lon Varscsak 
>> wrote:
>
>> Just to help Ben while he’s sleeping… This is while he’s running the 
>> application from within Eclipse (still through Apache) while he’s 
>> testing/debugging.
>>
>> -Lon
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:37 AM, OC > wrote:
>> Benjamin,
>>
>> On 6. 4. 2016, at 10:19, Benjamin Chew 
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > I did change Receive Timeout to 999,999 under “Site”, and restarted 
>> > wotaskd and monitor, but that didn’t help.
>>
>> The only thing which should need to be restarted is your application.
>>
>> > I also tried creating an app in monitor with the same name as the one 
>> > running in Eclipse, and changing the Receive Timeout, but that didn’t work 
>> > either.
>>
>> I am afraid I do not quite get your setup; what has Eclipse to do with that?
>>
>> Anyway, it is really weird if setting a super-high receive timeout for an 
>> application does not affect that application's “No Instance Available“ 
>> report; that does not make any sense to me. If the application locks, you 
>> still might not get the desired page, but (a) that is extremely improbable 
>> if it does run all right in a different setup, (b) at the very least, you 
>> should be waiting for the “No Instance Available“ report much, much longer.
>>
>> Sorry for an extremely dumb question, but is there perhaps any possibility 
>> you are changing the timeouts of another application, or the same 
>> application but on a different server, or something like that?
>>
>> Is there anything of interest in the adaptor log?
>>
>> All the best,
>> OC
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Hill 
>> > > wrote:
>> > Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.
>> >
>> > From: Benjamin Chew >
>> > Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
>> > To: Chuck Hill >
>> > Cc: OC >, WebObjects-Dev Mailing List 
>> > >
>> > Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout
>> >
>> > Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite 
>> > positive it is the ping time that is killing me.
>> >
>> > I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They 
>> > worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I 
>> > got to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m 
>> > getting ~300ms ping 

Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[Lon Varscsak]

1) Direct Connect isn’t really an option for us (nor should it be for
anyone ).
2) The URLs look like:
http://localhost/Apps/WebObjects/SmartPractice.woa/-20001
3) We always set a port for development.
4) I did have him set the application up in Monitor with timeouts and he
claims it didn’t work.
5) I swear I’ve done this before both ways and had it work. :(

-Lon

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 10:03 AM, Chuck Hill  wrote:

> Ben, what do the URLs look like?  It has been ages since I set this up.  I
> think you might need to set the WOPort in Eclipse and then configure an
> application in JavaMonitor and create an instance on that port for the
> Receive Timeout to have any effect.  Or, if you are not using Apache to
> serve resources or do SSL, using DirectConnect will also avoid this error
> message.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2016-04-06, 9:02 AM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=
> gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of OC"
>  o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
>
> >Aha, I see — I thought Eclipse uses Direct Connect, just as Xcode used to
> (and mine still does).
> >
> >In that case, beside the adaptor log, I would probably
> >
> >(a) try Direct Connect; no timeouts in this mode;
> >(b) add extra logs to show when the R/R loop begins, how it runs, and
> when it ends, to see what takes that long (and how long precisely).
> >
> >All the best,
> >OC
> >
> >On 6. 4. 2016, at 17:55, Lon Varscsak  wrote:
> >
> >> Just to help Ben while he’s sleeping… This is while he’s running the
> application from within Eclipse (still through Apache) while he’s
> testing/debugging.
> >>
> >> -Lon
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:37 AM, OC  wrote:
> >> Benjamin,
> >>
> >> On 6. 4. 2016, at 10:19, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
> >>
> >> > I did change Receive Timeout to 999,999 under “Site”, and restarted
> wotaskd and monitor, but that didn’t help.
> >>
> >> The only thing which should need to be restarted is your application.
> >>
> >> > I also tried creating an app in monitor with the same name as the one
> running in Eclipse, and changing the Receive Timeout, but that didn’t work
> either.
> >>
> >> I am afraid I do not quite get your setup; what has Eclipse to do with
> that?
> >>
> >> Anyway, it is really weird if setting a super-high receive timeout for
> an application does not affect that application's “No Instance Available“
> report; that does not make any sense to me. If the application locks, you
> still might not get the desired page, but (a) that is extremely improbable
> if it does run all right in a different setup, (b) at the very least, you
> should be waiting for the “No Instance Available“ report much, much longer.
> >>
> >> Sorry for an extremely dumb question, but is there perhaps any
> possibility you are changing the timeouts of another application, or the
> same application but on a different server, or something like that?
> >>
> >> Is there anything of interest in the adaptor log?
> >>
> >> All the best,
> >> OC
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Hill 
> wrote:
> >> > Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.
> >> >
> >> > From: Benjamin Chew 
> >> > Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
> >> > To: Chuck Hill 
> >> > Cc: OC , WebObjects-Dev Mailing List <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout
> >> >
> >> > Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite
> positive it is the ping time that is killing me.
> >> >
> >> > I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem.
> They worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once
> I got to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and
> I’m getting ~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.
> >> >
> >> > OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?
> >> >
> >> > Thanks,
> >> > Ben
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill 
> wrote:
> >> > I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that
> message is from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what
> you need to adjust up and up and up.
> >> >
> >> > It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how
> chatty JDBC is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite
> chatty indeed.  Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to
> run a local copy of the DB.
> >> >
> >> > Chuck
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=
> gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of OC"
>  o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > >Benjamin,
> >> > >
> >> > >On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew 

Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[Chuck Hill]

Ben, what do the URLs look like?  It has been ages since I set this up.  I 
think you might need to set the WOPort in Eclipse and then configure an 
application in JavaMonitor and create an instance on that port for the Receive 
Timeout to have any effect.  Or, if you are not using Apache to serve resources 
or do SSL, using DirectConnect will also avoid this error message.

Chuck 





On 2016-04-06, 9:02 AM, 
"webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of OC" 
 wrote:

>Aha, I see — I thought Eclipse uses Direct Connect, just as Xcode used to (and 
>mine still does).
>
>In that case, beside the adaptor log, I would probably
>
>(a) try Direct Connect; no timeouts in this mode;
>(b) add extra logs to show when the R/R loop begins, how it runs, and when it 
>ends, to see what takes that long (and how long precisely).
>
>All the best,
>OC
>
>On 6. 4. 2016, at 17:55, Lon Varscsak  wrote:
>
>> Just to help Ben while he’s sleeping… This is while he’s running the 
>> application from within Eclipse (still through Apache) while he’s 
>> testing/debugging.
>> 
>> -Lon
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:37 AM, OC  wrote:
>> Benjamin,
>> 
>> On 6. 4. 2016, at 10:19, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
>> 
>> > I did change Receive Timeout to 999,999 under “Site”, and restarted 
>> > wotaskd and monitor, but that didn’t help.
>> 
>> The only thing which should need to be restarted is your application.
>> 
>> > I also tried creating an app in monitor with the same name as the one 
>> > running in Eclipse, and changing the Receive Timeout, but that didn’t work 
>> > either.
>> 
>> I am afraid I do not quite get your setup; what has Eclipse to do with that?
>> 
>> Anyway, it is really weird if setting a super-high receive timeout for an 
>> application does not affect that application's “No Instance Available“ 
>> report; that does not make any sense to me. If the application locks, you 
>> still might not get the desired page, but (a) that is extremely improbable 
>> if it does run all right in a different setup, (b) at the very least, you 
>> should be waiting for the “No Instance Available“ report much, much longer.
>> 
>> Sorry for an extremely dumb question, but is there perhaps any possibility 
>> you are changing the timeouts of another application, or the same 
>> application but on a different server, or something like that?
>> 
>> Is there anything of interest in the adaptor log?
>> 
>> All the best,
>> OC
>> 
>> 
>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
>> > Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.
>> >
>> > From: Benjamin Chew 
>> > Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
>> > To: Chuck Hill 
>> > Cc: OC , WebObjects-Dev Mailing List 
>> > 
>> > Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout
>> >
>> > Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite 
>> > positive it is the ping time that is killing me.
>> >
>> > I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They 
>> > worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I 
>> > got to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m 
>> > getting ~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.
>> >
>> > OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Ben
>> >
>> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
>> > I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that 
>> > message is from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what 
>> > you need to adjust up and up and up.
>> >
>> > It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how chatty 
>> > JDBC is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite chatty 
>> > indeed.  Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to run a 
>> > local copy of the DB.
>> >
>> > Chuck
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, 
>> > "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of 
>> > OC" > > of o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
>> >
>> > >Benjamin,
>> > >
>> > >On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I’m in Singapore working off a VPN connection to the States, and while 
>> > >> waiting for some database-intensive components to display, I keep 
>> > >> getting “No Instance Available” because it’s taking so long to complete 
>> > >> all the queries (ping times ~ 200ms).
>> > >
>> > >As others have pointed out, ping times could hardly affect this.
>> > >
>> > >> I’ve tried going to WOMonitor on my local machine (localhost:56789) and 
>> > >> modified the Send, Receive and Connect timeouts, but 

Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[OC]

Aha, I see — I thought Eclipse uses Direct Connect, just as Xcode used to (and 
mine still does).

In that case, beside the adaptor log, I would probably

(a) try Direct Connect; no timeouts in this mode;
(b) add extra logs to show when the R/R loop begins, how it runs, and when it 
ends, to see what takes that long (and how long precisely).

All the best,
OC

On 6. 4. 2016, at 17:55, Lon Varscsak  wrote:

> Just to help Ben while he’s sleeping… This is while he’s running the 
> application from within Eclipse (still through Apache) while he’s 
> testing/debugging.
> 
> -Lon
> 
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:37 AM, OC  wrote:
> Benjamin,
> 
> On 6. 4. 2016, at 10:19, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
> 
> > I did change Receive Timeout to 999,999 under “Site”, and restarted wotaskd 
> > and monitor, but that didn’t help.
> 
> The only thing which should need to be restarted is your application.
> 
> > I also tried creating an app in monitor with the same name as the one 
> > running in Eclipse, and changing the Receive Timeout, but that didn’t work 
> > either.
> 
> I am afraid I do not quite get your setup; what has Eclipse to do with that?
> 
> Anyway, it is really weird if setting a super-high receive timeout for an 
> application does not affect that application's “No Instance Available“ 
> report; that does not make any sense to me. If the application locks, you 
> still might not get the desired page, but (a) that is extremely improbable if 
> it does run all right in a different setup, (b) at the very least, you should 
> be waiting for the “No Instance Available“ report much, much longer.
> 
> Sorry for an extremely dumb question, but is there perhaps any possibility 
> you are changing the timeouts of another application, or the same application 
> but on a different server, or something like that?
> 
> Is there anything of interest in the adaptor log?
> 
> All the best,
> OC
> 
> 
> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
> > Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.
> >
> > From: Benjamin Chew 
> > Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
> > To: Chuck Hill 
> > Cc: OC , WebObjects-Dev Mailing List 
> > 
> > Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout
> >
> > Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite positive 
> > it is the ping time that is killing me.
> >
> > I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They 
> > worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I got 
> > to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m 
> > getting ~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.
> >
> > OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ben
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
> > I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that 
> > message is from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what 
> > you need to adjust up and up and up.
> >
> > It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how chatty 
> > JDBC is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite chatty 
> > indeed.  Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to run a 
> > local copy of the DB.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, 
> > "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of 
> > OC"  > of o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
> >
> > >Benjamin,
> > >
> > >On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
> > >
> > >> I’m in Singapore working off a VPN connection to the States, and while 
> > >> waiting for some database-intensive components to display, I keep 
> > >> getting “No Instance Available” because it’s taking so long to complete 
> > >> all the queries (ping times ~ 200ms).
> > >
> > >As others have pointed out, ping times could hardly affect this.
> > >
> > >> I’ve tried going to WOMonitor on my local machine (localhost:56789) and 
> > >> modified the Send, Receive and Connect timeouts, but that didn’t seem to 
> > >> help.
> > >
> > >Far as I can say with my very limited knowledge,
> > >
> > >(a) “No Instance Available” is most time (if not always) caused by the 
> > >receive timeout at the server side;
> > >(b) and thus, increasing it enough should help.
> > >
> > >> Does anyone have any ideas?
> > >
> > >First thing, I would try some ludicrously high receive timeout. For us, it 
> > >always helped (in the sense that the rendered page did always return, 
> > >presumed the user had the patience to wait long enough, especially when by 
> > >a mistake I had computed some results in O(2^N) :))
> > >
> > >It might also help to check the adaptor log -- touch /tmp/logWebObjects 

Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[Lon Varscsak]

Just to help Ben while he’s sleeping… This is while he’s running the
application from within Eclipse (still through Apache) while he’s
testing/debugging.

-Lon

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 8:37 AM, OC  wrote:

> Benjamin,
>
> On 6. 4. 2016, at 10:19, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
>
> > I did change Receive Timeout to 999,999 under “Site”, and restarted
> wotaskd and monitor, but that didn’t help.
>
> The only thing which should need to be restarted is your application.
>
> > I also tried creating an app in monitor with the same name as the one
> running in Eclipse, and changing the Receive Timeout, but that didn’t work
> either.
>
> I am afraid I do not quite get your setup; what has Eclipse to do with
> that?
>
> Anyway, it is really weird if setting a super-high receive timeout for an
> application does not affect that application's “No Instance Available“
> report; that does not make any sense to me. If the application locks, you
> still might not get the desired page, but (a) that is extremely improbable
> if it does run all right in a different setup, (b) at the very least, you
> should be waiting for the “No Instance Available“ report much, much longer.
>
> Sorry for an extremely dumb question, but is there perhaps any possibility
> you are changing the timeouts of another application, or the same
> application but on a different server, or something like that?
>
> Is there anything of interest in the adaptor log?
>
> All the best,
> OC
>
>
> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
> > Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.
> >
> > From: Benjamin Chew 
> > Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
> > To: Chuck Hill 
> > Cc: OC , WebObjects-Dev Mailing List <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
> > Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout
> >
> > Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite
> positive it is the ping time that is killing me.
> >
> > I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They
> worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I got
> to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m
> getting ~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.
> >
> > OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ben
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
> > I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that
> message is from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what
> you need to adjust up and up and up.
> >
> > It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how chatty
> JDBC is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite chatty
> indeed.  Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to run a
> local copy of the DB.
> >
> > Chuck
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=
> gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of OC"
>  o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
> >
> > >Benjamin,
> > >
> > >On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
> > >
> > >> I’m in Singapore working off a VPN connection to the States, and
> while waiting for some database-intensive components to display, I keep
> getting “No Instance Available” because it’s taking so long to complete all
> the queries (ping times ~ 200ms).
> > >
> > >As others have pointed out, ping times could hardly affect this.
> > >
> > >> I’ve tried going to WOMonitor on my local machine (localhost:56789)
> and modified the Send, Receive and Connect timeouts, but that didn’t seem
> to help.
> > >
> > >Far as I can say with my very limited knowledge,
> > >
> > >(a) “No Instance Available” is most time (if not always) caused by the
> receive timeout at the server side;
> > >(b) and thus, increasing it enough should help.
> > >
> > >> Does anyone have any ideas?
> > >
> > >First thing, I would try some ludicrously high receive timeout. For us,
> it always helped (in the sense that the rendered page did always return,
> presumed the user had the patience to wait long enough, especially when by
> a mistake I had computed some results in O(2^N) :))
> > >
> > >It might also help to check the adaptor log -- touch /tmp/logWebObjects
> as root, and the log should appear in /tmp/WebObjectsLog.
> > >
> > >The ultimate solution, of course, would be background processing and/or
> paging, as others already recommended; but first you need to find the
> particular cause of the long processing, which might be sometimes a bit
> hairy.
> > >
> > >All the best and good luck,
> > >OC
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > >Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> > >Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> > 

Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[OC]

Benjamin,

On 6. 4. 2016, at 10:19, Benjamin Chew  wrote:

> I did change Receive Timeout to 999,999 under “Site”, and restarted wotaskd 
> and monitor, but that didn’t help.

The only thing which should need to be restarted is your application.

> I also tried creating an app in monitor with the same name as the one running 
> in Eclipse, and changing the Receive Timeout, but that didn’t work either. 

I am afraid I do not quite get your setup; what has Eclipse to do with that?

Anyway, it is really weird if setting a super-high receive timeout for an 
application does not affect that application's “No Instance Available“ report; 
that does not make any sense to me. If the application locks, you still might 
not get the desired page, but (a) that is extremely improbable if it does run 
all right in a different setup, (b) at the very least, you should be waiting 
for the “No Instance Available“ report much, much longer.

Sorry for an extremely dumb question, but is there perhaps any possibility you 
are changing the timeouts of another application, or the same application but 
on a different server, or something like that?

Is there anything of interest in the adaptor log?

All the best,
OC


> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
> Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.
> 
> From: Benjamin Chew 
> Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
> To: Chuck Hill 
> Cc: OC , WebObjects-Dev Mailing List 
> 
> Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout
> 
> Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite positive 
> it is the ping time that is killing me. 
> 
> I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They 
> worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I got 
> to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m 
> getting ~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.
> 
> OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ben
> 
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
> I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that message 
> is from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what you need to 
> adjust up and up and up.
> 
> It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how chatty JDBC 
> is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite chatty indeed.  
> Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to run a local copy of 
> the DB.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, 
> "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of OC" 
>  o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
> 
> >Benjamin,
> >
> >On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
> >
> >> I’m in Singapore working off a VPN connection to the States, and while 
> >> waiting for some database-intensive components to display, I keep getting 
> >> “No Instance Available” because it’s taking so long to complete all the 
> >> queries (ping times ~ 200ms).
> >
> >As others have pointed out, ping times could hardly affect this.
> >
> >> I’ve tried going to WOMonitor on my local machine (localhost:56789) and 
> >> modified the Send, Receive and Connect timeouts, but that didn’t seem to 
> >> help.
> >
> >Far as I can say with my very limited knowledge,
> >
> >(a) “No Instance Available” is most time (if not always) caused by the 
> >receive timeout at the server side;
> >(b) and thus, increasing it enough should help.
> >
> >> Does anyone have any ideas?
> >
> >First thing, I would try some ludicrously high receive timeout. For us, it 
> >always helped (in the sense that the rendered page did always return, 
> >presumed the user had the patience to wait long enough, especially when by a 
> >mistake I had computed some results in O(2^N) :))
> >
> >It might also help to check the adaptor log -- touch /tmp/logWebObjects as 
> >root, and the log should appear in /tmp/WebObjectsLog.
> >
> >The ultimate solution, of course, would be background processing and/or 
> >paging, as others already recommended; but first you need to find the 
> >particular cause of the long processing, which might be sometimes a bit 
> >hairy.
> >
> >All the best and good luck,
> >OC
> >
> >
> > ___
> >Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> >Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> >Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> >https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40gevityinc.com
> >
> >This email sent to ch...@gevityinc.com
> 
> 


 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
Webobjects-dev mailing list  

Re: Deadlock / stack interpretation

[Samuel Pelletier]

Hi Mark,

You do not take the globalId of Document, because it is not an EO and does not 
have any EO attributes right ?

Is Report and ExternalDocumentStore are committed to the database when this 
code is running ?

If you answered yes to both questions, I think your problem is in another piece 
of code.

Samuel


> Le 5 avr. 2016 à 18:14, Mark Wardle  a écrit :
> 
> Thanks Chuck. I have looked at this code. I do spin out a separate thread to 
> do some background processing after a particular request. I thought that 
> passing a EOGlobalID would be safe. The class below takes a Document (an 
> immutable and thread-safe POJO), a Report and an ExternalDocumentStore (both 
> EOEnterpriseObjects). I just wonder whether I should use 
> ERXEOGlobalIDUtilities.fetchObjectWithGlobalID() instead of 
> EOEditingContext.faultForGlobalID() as the former seems to be much more 
> complex and this might be for a good reason?
> 
> 
>   static class ReportPublisher implements Runnable {
>   final Document _document;
>   final EOGlobalID _reportGlobalId;
>   final EOGlobalID _storeGlobalId;
> 
>   ReportPublisher(final Document doc, Report report, 
> ExternalDocumentStore store) {
>   if (doc == null || report == null || store == null) {
>   throw new NullPointerException("A document, 
> report and store must be supplied.");
>   }
>   _document = doc;
>   _reportGlobalId = report.permanentGlobalID();
>   _storeGlobalId = store.permanentGlobalID();
>   } 
> 
>   @Override
>   public void run() {
>   log.debug("Publishing document '" + 
> _document.description() +"' in background thread...");
>   NSTimestamp started = new NSTimestamp();
>   EOEditingContext ec = ERXEC.newEditingContext();
>   try {
>   ec.lock();
>   ExternalDocumentStore store = 
> (ExternalDocumentStore) ec.faultForGlobalID(_storeGlobalId, ec);
>   if (store != null) {
>   log.debug("Publishing using repository 
> from class: " +store.implementationClassName());
>   Class clazz = 
> Class.forName(store.implementationClassName());
>   Object reposObject = 
> clazz.newInstance();
>   if (reposObject instanceof 
> DocumentRepository) {
>   DocumentRepository repos = 
> (DocumentRepository) reposObject;
>   DocumentReceipt receipt = 
> repos.publishDocument(_document);
>   NSTimestamp finished = new 
> NSTimestamp();
>   log.debug(receipt.message());
>   if (receipt.success()) {
>   log.debug("Successfully 
> published document:" + _document.description());
>   Report r = (Report) 
> ec.faultForGlobalID(_reportGlobalId, ec);
>   PublishedReport pr = 
> r.createPublishedReportsRelationship();
>   
> pr.setExternalDocumentStoreRelationship(store);
>   
> pr.setReportRelationship(r);
>   
> pr.setDateTimeStarted(started);
>   
> pr.setDateTimeFinished(finished);
>   ec.saveChanges();
>   }
>   } else {
>   log.debug("Instance of class 
> not a type of DocumentRepository.");
>   }
>   }
>   else {
>   log.debug("No store found for global 
> id: " +_storeGlobalId);
>   }
>   } catch 
> (ClassNotFoundException|InstantiationException|IllegalAccessException e) {
>   e.printStackTrace();
>   }
>   finally {
>   ec.unlock();
>   }
>   }
>   }
> 
> 
> Am I doing something wrong converting a EOGlobalID to a proper EO in a 
> background thread?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On 1 Apr 2016, at 06:03, Chuck Hill > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> Found one 

Re: Deadlock / stack interpretation

[Mark Wardle]

I'll try that for all threads and see what happens. I have changed to using the 
utility methods in ERXEOGlobalIDUtilities in any case. 

Thank you

Mark

-- 
Dr. Mark Wardle
Consultant Neurologist, Cardiff, UK
(Sent from my mobile)


> On 5 Apr 2016, at 23:32, Chuck Hill  wrote:
> 
> That code does not look to be the source of this deadlock.  As a helpful 
> hint, having this code set the thread name to _document.description() makes 
> debugging things like this easier.
> 
> Chuck
> 
> 
> From: Mark Wardle 
> Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 3:14 PM
> To: Chuck Hill 
> Cc: WebObjects Dev Apple 
> Subject: Re: Deadlock / stack interpretation
> 
> Thanks Chuck. I have looked at this code. I do spin out a separate thread to 
> do some background processing after a particular request. I thought that 
> passing a EOGlobalID would be safe. The class below takes a Document (an 
> immutable and thread-safe POJO), a Report and an ExternalDocumentStore (both 
> EOEnterpriseObjects). I just wonder whether I should use 
> ERXEOGlobalIDUtilities.fetchObjectWithGlobalID() instead of 
> EOEditingContext.faultForGlobalID() as the former seems to be much more 
> complex and this might be for a good reason?
> 
> 
> staticclass ReportPublisher implements Runnable {
> final Document _document;
> final EOGlobalID _reportGlobalId;
> final EOGlobalID _storeGlobalId;
> 
> ReportPublisher(final Document doc, Report report, ExternalDocumentStore 
> store) {
> if (doc == null || report == null || store == null) {
> thrownew NullPointerException("A document, report and store must be 
> supplied.");
> }
> _document = doc;
> _reportGlobalId = report.permanentGlobalID();
> _storeGlobalId = store.permanentGlobalID();
> } 
> 
> @Override
> publicvoid run() {
> log.debug("Publishing document '" + _document.description() +"' in background 
> thread...");
> NSTimestamp started = new NSTimestamp();
> EOEditingContext ec = ERXEC.newEditingContext();
> try {
> ec.lock();
> ExternalDocumentStore store = (ExternalDocumentStore) 
> ec.faultForGlobalID(_storeGlobalId, ec);
> if (store != null) {
> log.debug("Publishing using repository from class: " 
> +store.implementationClassName());
> Class clazz = Class.forName(store.implementationClassName());
> Object reposObject = clazz.newInstance();
> if (reposObjectinstanceof DocumentRepository) {
> DocumentRepository repos = (DocumentRepository) reposObject;
> DocumentReceipt receipt = repos.publishDocument(_document);
> NSTimestamp finished = new NSTimestamp();
> log.debug(receipt.message());
> if (receipt.success()) {
> log.debug("Successfully published document:" + _document.description());
> Report r = (Report) ec.faultForGlobalID(_reportGlobalId, ec);
> PublishedReport pr = r.createPublishedReportsRelationship();
> pr.setExternalDocumentStoreRelationship(store);
> pr.setReportRelationship(r);
> pr.setDateTimeStarted(started);
> pr.setDateTimeFinished(finished);
> ec.saveChanges();
> }
> } else {
> log.debug("Instance of class not a type of DocumentRepository.");
> }
> }
> else {
> log.debug("No store found for global id: " +_storeGlobalId);
> }
> } catch (ClassNotFoundException|InstantiationException|IllegalAccessException 
> e) {
> e.printStackTrace();
> }
> finally {
> ec.unlock();
> }
> }
> }
> 
> 
> Am I doing something wrong converting a EOGlobalID to a proper EO in a 
> background thread?
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On 1 Apr 2016, at 06:03, Chuck Hill  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Mark
>> 
>> Found one Java-level deadlock:
>> =
>> "WorkerThread127":
>>   waiting for ownable synchronizer 0xec9b7b48, (a 
>> java.util.concurrent.locks.ReentrantLock$NonfairSync),
>>   which is held by "Thread-5”
>> 
>> So this is waiting for an OSC lock:
>> "WorkerThread127":
>> at sun.misc.Unsafe.park(Native Method)
>> - parking to wait for  <0xec9b7b48> (a 
>> java.util.concurrent.locks.ReentrantLock$NonfairSync)
>> at java.util.concurrent.locks.LockSupport.park(LockSupport.java:175)
>> at 
>> java.util.concurrent.locks.AbstractQueuedSynchronizer.parkAndCheckInterrupt(AbstractQueuedSynchronizer.java:836)
>> at 
>> java.util.concurrent.locks.AbstractQueuedSynchronizer.acquireQueued(AbstractQueuedSynchronizer.java:870)
>> at 
>> java.util.concurrent.locks.AbstractQueuedSynchronizer.acquire(AbstractQueuedSynchronizer.java:1199)
>> at 
>> java.util.concurrent.locks.ReentrantLock$NonfairSync.lock(ReentrantLock.java:209)
>> at java.util.concurrent.locks.ReentrantLock.lock(ReentrantLock.java:285)
>> at 
>> com.webobjects.eocontrol.EOObjectStoreCoordinator.lock(EOObjectStoreCoordinator.java:420)
>> at 
>> com.webobjects.eocontrol.EOEditingContext.lockObjectStore(EOEditingContext.java:4666)
>> 
>> "Thread-5":
>>   waiting for ownable synchronizer 0xf60726a0, (a 
>> java.util.concurrent.locks.ReentrantLock$NonfairSync),
>>   which is held by "WorkerThread5"
>> 
>> This thread is 

Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[Benjamin Chew]

I did change Receive Timeout to 999,999 under “Site”, and restarted wotaskd
and monitor, but that didn’t help.

I also tried creating an app in monitor with the same name as the one
running in Eclipse, and changing the Receive Timeout, but that didn’t work
either.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Ben

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:59 PM, Chuck Hill  wrote:

> Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.
>
> From: Benjamin Chew 
> Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
> To: Chuck Hill 
> Cc: OC , WebObjects-Dev Mailing List <
> webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com>
> Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout
>
> Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite
> positive it is the ping time that is killing me.
>
> I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They
> worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I got
> to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m
> getting ~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.
>
> OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?
>
> Thanks,
> Ben
>
> On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill  wrote:
>
>> I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that
>> message is from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what
>> you need to adjust up and up and up.
>>
>> It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how chatty
>> JDBC is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite chatty
>> indeed.  Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to run a
>> local copy of the DB.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=
>> gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of OC"
>> > o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
>>
>> >Benjamin,
>> >
>> >On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
>> >
>> >> I’m in Singapore working off a VPN connection to the States, and while
>> waiting for some database-intensive components to display, I keep getting
>> “No Instance Available” because it’s taking so long to complete all the
>> queries (ping times ~ 200ms).
>> >
>> >As others have pointed out, ping times could hardly affect this.
>> >
>> >> I’ve tried going to WOMonitor on my local machine (localhost:56789)
>> and modified the Send, Receive and Connect timeouts, but that didn’t seem
>> to help.
>> >
>> >Far as I can say with my very limited knowledge,
>> >
>> >(a) “No Instance Available” is most time (if not always) caused by the
>> receive timeout at the server side;
>> >(b) and thus, increasing it enough should help.
>> >
>> >> Does anyone have any ideas?
>> >
>> >First thing, I would try some ludicrously high receive timeout. For us,
>> it always helped (in the sense that the rendered page did always return,
>> presumed the user had the patience to wait long enough, especially when by
>> a mistake I had computed some results in O(2^N) :))
>> >
>> >It might also help to check the adaptor log -- touch /tmp/logWebObjects
>> as root, and the log should appear in /tmp/WebObjectsLog.
>> >
>> >The ultimate solution, of course, would be background processing and/or
>> paging, as others already recommended; but first you need to find the
>> particular cause of the long processing, which might be sometimes a bit
>> hairy.
>> >
>> >All the best and good luck,
>> >OC
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
>> >Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>> >Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
>> >Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>> >
>> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40gevityinc.com
>> >
>> >This email sent to ch...@gevityinc.com
>>
>
>
 ___
Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
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Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
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Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[Chuck Hill]

Receive Timeout is set in JavaMonitor.

From: Benjamin Chew >
Date: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 at 11:52 PM
To: Chuck Hill >
Cc: OC >, WebObjects-Dev Mailing List 
>
Subject: Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite positive it 
is the ping time that is killing me.

I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They worked 
fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I got to 
Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m getting 
~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.

OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?

Thanks,
Ben

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill 
> wrote:
I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that message is 
from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what you need to 
adjust up and up and up.

It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how chatty JDBC 
is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite chatty indeed.  
Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to run a local copy of 
the DB.

Chuck




On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, 
"webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=gevityinc@lists.apple.com
 on behalf of OC" 

 on behalf of o...@ocs.cz> wrote:

>Benjamin,
>
>On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew 
>> wrote:
>
>> I’m in Singapore working off a VPN connection to the States, and while 
>> waiting for some database-intensive components to display, I keep getting 
>> “No Instance Available” because it’s taking so long to complete all the 
>> queries (ping times ~ 200ms).
>
>As others have pointed out, ping times could hardly affect this.
>
>> I’ve tried going to WOMonitor on my local machine (localhost:56789) and 
>> modified the Send, Receive and Connect timeouts, but that didn’t seem to 
>> help.
>
>Far as I can say with my very limited knowledge,
>
>(a) “No Instance Available” is most time (if not always) caused by the receive 
>timeout at the server side;
>(b) and thus, increasing it enough should help.
>
>> Does anyone have any ideas?
>
>First thing, I would try some ludicrously high receive timeout. For us, it 
>always helped (in the sense that the rendered page did always return, presumed 
>the user had the patience to wait long enough, especially when by a mistake I 
>had computed some results in O(2^N) :))
>
>It might also help to check the adaptor log -- touch /tmp/logWebObjects as 
>root, and the log should appear in /tmp/WebObjectsLog.
>
>The ultimate solution, of course, would be background processing and/or 
>paging, as others already recommended; but first you need to find the 
>particular cause of the long processing, which might be sometimes a bit hairy.
>
>All the best and good luck,
>OC
>
>
> ___
>Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
>Webobjects-dev mailing list  
>(Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
>Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
>https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40gevityinc.com
>
>This email sent to ch...@gevityinc.com

 ___
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Re: Extending the “No Instance Available” timeout

[Benjamin Chew]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the other suggestions, but I’m quite positive
it is the ping time that is killing me.

I have tried multiple apps, and all the apps have the same problem. They
worked fine when I was in the US, but I encountered this problem once I got
to Singapore. I’ve verified this by pinging servers in the US, and I’m
getting ~300ms ping times, with some jitter, which does not help.

OC and Chuck: could you tell me how to adjust my Receive Timeout?

Thanks,
Ben

On Wed, Apr 6, 2016 at 2:26 AM, Chuck Hill  wrote:

> I assume that you are running the app locally through Apache as that
> message is from wotaskd.  As OC pointed out, the Receive Timeout is what
> you need to adjust up and up and up.
>
> It sounds like latency is what is killing you, I don’t recall how chatty
> JDBC is but it is probably along the lines of ODBC which is quite chatty
> indeed.  Latency kills its performance.  Another possibility is to run a
> local copy of the DB.
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
>
> On 2016-04-05, 7:38 AM, "webobjects-dev-bounces+chill=
> gevityinc@lists.apple.com on behalf of OC"
>  o...@ocs.cz> wrote:
>
> >Benjamin,
> >
> >On 5. 4. 2016, at 11:02, Benjamin Chew  wrote:
> >
> >> I’m in Singapore working off a VPN connection to the States, and while
> waiting for some database-intensive components to display, I keep getting
> “No Instance Available” because it’s taking so long to complete all the
> queries (ping times ~ 200ms).
> >
> >As others have pointed out, ping times could hardly affect this.
> >
> >> I’ve tried going to WOMonitor on my local machine (localhost:56789) and
> modified the Send, Receive and Connect timeouts, but that didn’t seem to
> help.
> >
> >Far as I can say with my very limited knowledge,
> >
> >(a) “No Instance Available” is most time (if not always) caused by the
> receive timeout at the server side;
> >(b) and thus, increasing it enough should help.
> >
> >> Does anyone have any ideas?
> >
> >First thing, I would try some ludicrously high receive timeout. For us,
> it always helped (in the sense that the rendered page did always return,
> presumed the user had the patience to wait long enough, especially when by
> a mistake I had computed some results in O(2^N) :))
> >
> >It might also help to check the adaptor log -- touch /tmp/logWebObjects
> as root, and the log should appear in /tmp/WebObjectsLog.
> >
> >The ultimate solution, of course, would be background processing and/or
> paging, as others already recommended; but first you need to find the
> particular cause of the long processing, which might be sometimes a bit
> hairy.
> >
> >All the best and good luck,
> >OC
> >
> >
> > ___
> >Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored.
> >Webobjects-dev mailing list  (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com)
> >Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription:
> >
> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/chill%40gevityinc.com
> >
> >This email sent to ch...@gevityinc.com
>
 ___
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