Re: [libreoffice-website] Our mail addresses are public on mailing lists!
2011/6/3 David VANTYGHEM david.vantyg...@free.fr Hello, Would it be possible to parameter the mailing list correctly, our addresses are public on them, please see joigned screenshot. And it's a well advertised feature: Please remember: everything you post to our public mailing lists, including your e-mail address and any other personal information contained in your message, will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted. So, please do post wisely Source: http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/ Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
-- Header Originale --- Da : Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl A : website@libreoffice.org Cc : Data : Sun, 29 May 2011 22:36:48 +0200 Oggetto : Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers Hi Cor, With all this, I doubt if an extra layer, portal, that asks lots of energy to build and maintain, will add so much. For you and me and each of us, contributing in any area, it will probably haven been more or less the same: one looks around, lurks on the list for some time, until the feeling is there that it is time to stand up and start helping with testing, documentation, coding, ... I think you've a old school view of reality, where potential contributors come, spend X amount of time around and then decide what to do. I belong to the same old school. ;-) That's OK, but what if a sub-project needs help *now* and the request for help is posted in this list while the volunteers that have will, time and skills to perform such task, read the discuss and marketing lists only or visit the wiki only or the TDF website only or the LibO website only? The task would be still uncompleted and the volunteer still around to find what to do and, maybe, he/she may get tired of searching. This is fragmentation or balkanization and it grows as fast and large as linguistic differences and difficulties rises. A central and well advertised tool would lessen such fragmentation and increase efficency in completing pending tasks, IMO. However, by reading the devs list, I've understood that there's a strong resistence among developers to create new processes, though a part of them thinks they may help. I shouldn't insist in changing their minds and I surely won't insist, though I think it's a mistake. The next tests for this tool, that we'll do anyway, won't have a section for developers, at least not like the original one. There are other ideas now, among people who are working on this, and I think they may be useful. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
In data 29 maggio 2011 alle ore 00:16:24, Cor Nouws oo...@nouenoff.nl ha
scritto:
But reading Gianlucas sentence again ('wannabe developers that have no
clue about where and how to ask for suggestions') I must say that I do
not understand either what my reply could help with that, since I guess
people with developing skills know IRC, bugtracker, ... so I do not
understand the problem at all. Sorry for the confusion.
Is there currently enough developing manpower to further improve the
project at a industrial pace? Have *all* *potential* external developers
(btw, how many are they and how many of them really contribute to the
project?) sufficiently knowledge about what help the *current* developers
need?
If the answer is yes to both questions, the developing part of LibO is
just perfect and we can delete any other mean of promotion for open dev
tasks/bugs.
I think there is a mentality difference between us: you spoke about people
that have *already* started working on the code while I speak about people
that haven't started, yet. The former ones are looking for help to satisfy
*their* own developing needs, the latter ones are looking for help to
satisfy the needs of the project.
However, maybe, I'm completely missing the point in your message, because
I suppose that *there are* developing needs of the project, based on a
engineering-driven model for developing LibO.
Am I wrong?
Regards,
Gianluca
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Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
In data 27 maggio 2011 alle ore 23:40:11, Andrea Pescetti pesce...@openoffice.org ha scritto: On 23/05/2011 Gianluca Turconi wrote: since few days I'm discussing a proposal about the creation of a employment-office-like collaboration tool for LibO volunteers. Here is my original proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed#Central_Employment-office-like_Web_Structure_for_LibreOffice_Volunteers It's a very interesting proposal, but I find it still too unspecified to start assessing tools (nobody wants lengthy discussions) or building broken-but-you-get-the-idea prototypes and castrating the project due to the constraints of a semi-random tool choice. Absolutely. As I've already explained in the Italian discuss list some days ago, the first test implementation of this tool has been severely limited to a specific CMS because of the as much limited available tech manpower. BTW, thanks to Daniele Pinna for his tech help. 1) The site must be fun to use. Not easy to use: FUN to use. It's a site for hundreds of people, not for the few that are highly committed and would contribute even without it. This must be priority #1 in design. +1 2) Success should not depend on developers using this site. LibreOffice developers, rightfully, oppose everything that could hinder their productivity, and reserve to choose their tools. There's plenty of non-developers tasks and the site could now really focus on these only. I strongly disagree on this point. Developers are several grade of magnitude more important than any other contributor for a *software* project like LibreOffice. Since expert developers don't grew on trees, there must be a mean, whatever mean, in order to increase occasional developing contributions and to transform those one-time contributions into a more reliable and expert contribution. I know developers have their bugzilla and their mailing lists, but when an independent, new developer approaches for the first time the project, he doesn't know anything about mailing lists (Libreoffice vs freedesktop.org ones?!), other developers' roles, tasks which he can complete. In a sentence: he doesn't know anything about how the dev part of the project works. I don't want to force developers to abandon bugzilla, it's impossible, but rather to provide a more friendly entry level for those new developers who approach the project, a mean that can be used to spread expertise about sinple and more complex dev tasks and to lessen the now very steep learning curve about how the LibO code works. 3) The site must provide Faceted search for tasks: one can progressively narrow down the results to find all tasks needing knowledge of Italian and less than a day and easy-medium difficulty, by clicking suitable values on the Language, Duration and Difficulty panels. In images: http://www.lucidimagination.com/files/image/articles/faceting/CNET_faceted_search.jpg (just found with a search engine, I'm not affiliated with that site). + 1 4) It shouldn't be necessary to register; optimally, the site would just use cookies like bit.ly does, at least for the first session. I also think that registration should not be necessary, but the confirmation of starting a task is absolutely needed, otherwise in single-action tasks, more people may duplicate their work and get so a lot of frustration. 5) Cooperating should be rewarding; not (or not only) money as specified in the proposal, but bonus points that allow to identify the best contributors (may conflict with 4, but there could be some hybrid way, i.e., asking for an e-mail account and registering users this way, by sending them an e-mail in background). A stars system? You get some points for each contribution and 1 star every X points. When you achieve the 5 stars contributor status, you can be universally considered an important LibO contributor. 6) The site must support free tagging: if the Italian community wants to post a series of tasks tagged libo34it, they should be able to do it. Uhm... -1 I think freedom of tagging may create a uncontrolled proliferation of tags and further linguistic fragmentation (besides needed translations), exactly what we want to avoid with this tool. 7) There must be an interface to clone an existing task. Optimally, to clone a series of existing tasks. I envision Italo having to clone all the Translate LibreOffice 3.3.3 Release Notes to Italian/French/German tasks to the corresponding 3.3.4 ones with one click. That would spare a *lot* of time. 8) Links should be easy to refer and use, like http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/task/308 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tasks/308+313+318+323 http://SITENAME.libreoffice.org/tag/libo34it so that people could refer to task 308 and link to it easily. +1 9) Upon marking a task completed, the system should select the closest ones and propose them as further work. Like YouTube
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
In data 28 maggio 2011 alle ore 11:34:49, Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com ha scritto: The easy hacks mechanism created by Michael and Caolan, with the help of the other core developers, seems to work for those willing to get their hands dirty. I think that development wise we should just make the story more popular, and help in forwarding would be developers into the easy hacks area. Once they start working at these tasks, they have their own ways to nurture the process. Well, you can see that I've just used easy hacks as task examples for the central tool: http://libreoffice.dapinna.com/it/contribuisci-con-il-tuo-tempo-e-o-le-tue-capacità/18-programmatore/compiti-semplici-per-sviluppatori.html I'd like it was clear that this new tool should be *a* tool to manage contributions, not *the* tool as far as code contribution concerns. Developers use quite a lot IRC channels. It is a parallel world, at least I see it as a parallel world. Speaking frankly, I have to say I've never liked this attitude in OSS projects. It limits spreading expertise about the code by not providing good enough dev documentation that, I know, developers doesn't like to write or haven't time to write. However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
Re: [libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
2011/5/28 Italo Vignoli italo.vign...@gmail.com However, I don't want to change what they're used to, but I'd like to see an additional work layer that will provide some kind of guided introduction or tutorship for those wannabe developers that have no clue about where and how to ask for suggestions. Me too, but in order to achieve this objective we must play the right game with developers. If they don't get the meaning of the proposal, they tend to be slightly radical with their reactions. So, will the approach be...? :-) Regards, Gianluca -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-website] Re: [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
In data 23 maggio 2011 alle ore 08:41:06, Gianluca Turconi pub...@letturefantastiche.com ha scritto: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed#Central_Employment-office-like_Web_Structure_for_LibreOffice_Volunteers Just a brief update: in the Italian community, we're working on a Joomla *test* website for this tool (Italo Vignoli knows some details). As far as we've completed a /sufficiently/ working English *and* Italian test version, I'll post here the URL for further consideration of the work. We may test a Silverstripe solution too, like the LibO website, but it would surely be a future test. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[libreoffice-website] [Proposal] A central employment-office-like web structure for LibO volunteers
Hello *, since few days I'm discussing a proposal about the creation of a employment-office-like collaboration tool for LibO volunteers. Here is my original proposal: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Website/LibreOfficeWiki/Proposed#Central_Employment-office-like_Web_Structure_for_LibreOffice_Volunteers However, I'm not a technical person and I like knowing from people with deeper knowledge on this list what they think about and if/how they're willing to collaborate to such project. Thanks in advance for any suggestion or collaboration. Regards, Gianluca -- Lettura gratuita o acquisto di libri e racconti di fantascienza, fantasy, horror, noir, narrativa fantastica e tradizionale: http://www.letturefantastiche.com/ -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/www/website/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
