Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-08 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
After doign further digging someone suggested that some hacking needs to be
done on questy itself. and below is what im quoting from irc

1) You define the questions and answers in LocalSettings.php, right?
2) You can probably add a conditional to check browser language, maybe.I'm
not sure that gets passed, though HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE, maybe.

What my next step to do is setup on my testing vm a  testing setup of
mediawiki and questy and try and get the language detection dependent on
the browser working, if there is someone that would like to work on this
with me that speaks another language other then english that woudl be great
as english is all i use.

Regards
Jonathan


On Sun, Jul 7, 2013 at 10:26 AM, Florian Effenberger 
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 Hi,,

 Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-06 16:09:

  I will research in to this further. is that the desired way you would like
 to go with questy?


 yes! :)


 Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-08 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi Jonathan,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-08 14:40:

After doign further digging someone suggested that some hacking needs to be
done on questy itself. and below is what im quoting from irc


thanks a lot for working on this!


What my next step to do is setup on my testing vm a  testing setup of
mediawiki and questy and try and get the language detection dependent on
the browser working, if there is someone that would like to work on this
with me that speaks another language other then english that woudl be great
as english is all i use.


I've sent you our current settings wrt. language via IRC. We use 
LanguageSelector, which seems to work quite well. The problem is that 
QuestyCaptcha doesn't take the resulting language into account, so it's 
this extension that needs to be enhanced, IMHO...


Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-07 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi,,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-06 16:09:

I will research in to this further. is that the desired way you would like
to go with questy?


yes! :)

Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-06 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hello,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-05 20:25:

if you have people willing to create questions for the questy captcha on
different languages, you can make it display questions on a desired
language based on the browser's language preference

I think this is something that needs to be looked into as I think that is
the initial problem with questy. Please let me know if this is the desired
route to go and i can follow up on it and get more information on how to
set this up.


do you know how this should work? I only found a way of adding questions 
in one language...


Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-06 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
I will research in to this further. is that the desired way you would like
to go with questy?


On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 2:14 PM, Florian Effenberger 
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 Hello,

 Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-05 20:25:

  if you have people willing to create questions for the questy captcha on
 different languages, you can make it display questions on a desired
 language based on the browser's language preference

 I think this is something that needs to be looked into as I think that is
 the initial problem with questy. Please let me know if this is the desired
 route to go and i can follow up on it and get more information on how to
 set this up.


 do you know how this should work? I only found a way of adding questions
 in one language...


 Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-05 Thread Volker Merschmann
Hi,

2013/7/5 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com:
 Regarding questy captcha I am still trying to get a hold of the developer
 who is usually on irc but not at this time.

 I am quite suprised how we get much lower spam with a beta extension then
 ones that are well established. I think once i manage to get a hold of the
 developer it would be great work in collaboration with him interms of a
 localizable version of the extension for media wiki.



The first thing which has to be done in advance is, that the wiki has
to recognize the users language from the browser-indentification,
Then the request has to be forwarded to the localized page.

At the moment you are getting all in english when not logged in.


Volker

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-05 Thread Jonathan Aquilina

 The first thing which has to be done in advance is, that the wiki has
 to recognize the users language from the browser-indentification,
 Then the request has to be forwarded to the localized page.

 At the moment you are getting all in english when not logged in.


Is there a way to use geoip in that case to identify ones location.

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-05 Thread Volker Merschmann
Hi,

2013/7/5 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com:
 The first thing which has to be done in advance is, that the wiki has
 to recognize the users language from the browser-indentification,
 Then the request has to be forwarded to the localized page.

 At the moment you are getting all in english when not logged in.


 Is there a way to use geoip in that case to identify ones location.

I would not do this as it will give wrong language pages to travelling people.
The browser provides the UI language.

Volker


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-05 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Finally had a chat in the media wiki irc channel after a whole day of
freenode issues in terms of net splits.

I was linked these two links which might come in handy to potentially shed
light as to new features that we do not have enabled to combat spam

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Anti-spam_features


Florian as I am part of the infra team is there anything I can help  in
regards to the spam issues and the wiki?



On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Volker Merschmann merschm...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,

 2013/7/5 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com:
  The first thing which has to be done in advance is, that the wiki has
  to recognize the users language from the browser-indentification,
  Then the request has to be forwarded to the localized page.
 
  At the moment you are getting all in english when not logged in.
 
 
  Is there a way to use geoip in that case to identify ones location.
 
 I would not do this as it will give wrong language pages to travelling
 people.
 The browser provides the UI language.

 Volker


 --
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 Member of The Document Foundation
 http://www.documentfoundation.org




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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-05 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Sorry for the noise. I think i found the solution on how to get questions
in questy in the language that the person uses.

and im quoting this off irc from someone in the mediawiki irc channel

if you have people willing to create questions for the questy captcha on
different languages, you can make it display questions on a desired
language based on the browser's language preference

I think this is something that needs to be looked into as I think that is
the initial problem with questy. Please let me know if this is the desired
route to go and i can follow up on it and get more information on how to
set this up.


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 8:18 PM, Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.comwrote:

 Finally had a chat in the media wiki irc channel after a whole day of
 freenode issues in terms of net splits.

 I was linked these two links which might come in handy to potentially shed
 light as to new features that we do not have enabled to combat spam

 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam
 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Anti-spam_features


 Florian as I am part of the infra team is there anything I can help  in
 regards to the spam issues and the wiki?



  On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 10:56 AM, Volker Merschmann 
 merschm...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi,

 2013/7/5 Jonathan Aquilina eagles051...@gmail.com:
  The first thing which has to be done in advance is, that the wiki has
  to recognize the users language from the browser-indentification,
  Then the request has to be forwarded to the localized page.
 
  At the moment you are getting all in english when not logged in.
 
 
  Is there a way to use geoip in that case to identify ones location.
 
 I would not do this as it will give wrong language pages to travelling
 people.
 The browser provides the UI language.

 Volker


 --
 Volker Merschmann
 Member of The Document Foundation
 http://www.documentfoundation.org




 --
 Jonathan Aquilina




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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-02 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi,

Volker Merschmann wrote on 2013-07-01 21:59:


I doubt that we can use their solution.
They provide a global login (kind of single-sign-on). You register or
connect to your local wikipedia and get access to all NL-wikipedias
and connected wikis like wikiquote.
You always get a message on this fact when you log in.


yes, but how do they protect their accounts from spam? I have checked 
the used extensions on a couple of Wikipedia pages, read the 
documentation of the respective extensions, and installed them. Still, 
we get spam.


Might be that the Flagged Revisions extensions helps for them, which we 
don't use...


Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-02 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi,

Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2013-07-02 12:55:


If I may help here. What Florian and Sophie agree on -or must agree on
- is that we need a wiki that's practical for non english
   native-speakers and that has no or a limited amount of spam.  We
   don't have to choose between either one of them.


yep, that'd be ideal!


Florian, if you agree, let's first have Jonathan check what's going on
at Wikimedia on these questions. Simon and I can also ping Wikimedia
for other contacts and let's see what it can bring.

What do you think?


That would be wonderful indeed! Thanks!

Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-02 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
To clarify do you guys want me to check if mediawiki are working on making
the questions used by the captcha localizable?


On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Florian Effenberger 
flo...@documentfoundation.org wrote:

 Hi,

 Charles-H. Schulz wrote on 2013-07-02 12:55:

  If I may help here. What Florian and Sophie agree on -or must agree on
 - is that we need a wiki that's practical for non english
native-speakers and that has no or a limited amount of spam.  We
don't have to choose between either one of them.


 yep, that'd be ideal!

  Florian, if you agree, let's first have Jonathan check what's going on
 at Wikimedia on these questions. Simon and I can also ping Wikimedia
 for other contacts and let's see what it can bring.

 What do you think?


 That would be wonderful indeed! Thanks!

 Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-02 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-02 14:38:

To clarify do you guys want me to check if mediawiki are working on making
the questions used by the captcha localizable?


that, and very generic, what they do to combat spam, besides the tips 
they have listed in their combatting spam manual (all of them I have 
introduced at our wiki already).


Thanks!
Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-02 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Le Tue, 02 Jul 2013 14:41:38 +0200,
Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org a écrit :

 Hi,
 
 Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-02 14:38:
  To clarify do you guys want me to check if mediawiki are working on
  making the questions used by the captcha localizable?
 
 that, and very generic, what they do to combat spam, besides the tips 
 they have listed in their combatting spam manual (all of them I
 have introduced at our wiki already).


+1


Best,
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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-02 Thread elcico2001 एल्चिको

Il 02/07/2013 12:55, Charles-H. Schulz ha scritto:

Hello everyone,




If I may help here. What Florian and Sophie agree on -or must agree on
- is that we need a wiki that's practical for non english
   native-speakers and that has no or a limited amount of spam.  We
   don't have to choose between either one of them.

If Wikimedia/Wikipedia have successfully managed to tackle these
challenges, then we must find out how they did it.

Florian, if you agree, let's first have Jonathan check what's going on
at Wikimedia on these questions. Simon and I can also ping Wikimedia
for other contacts and let's see what it can bring.

What do you think?


Best,

Hello all,
Maybe repeating myself, but one thing that would really help (somehow 
OT, I know) is to have a multilingual wiki with language subdomains, 
just like wikipedia.org.
That really helps to have an ordered and synced from language to 
language wiki in my opinion... if I'm not wrong it was somehow planned 
but... no results until now...

My 2 cents.
Namastè all! :)

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi Volker,

Volker Merschmann wrote on 2013-06-30 13:20:

Summary:
Spam and unused registration is increasing since changing back to the
ReCaptcha. From my experience it will increase more as the information
about a wiki that is accessible will be pushed around.

Conclusion:
We should put down the ReCaptcha again.

Proposal:
For the moment we shoud re-install the questy captcha.

I have heard that there have been complaints from some language
communities about the accessibility of the wikiregistration.
But in the time I wrote this, two new users have inserted their spam
in the wiki.
We obviously can not allow this and the dirty  work of blocking and
deleting prevents us from doing more useful things.


thanks a lot for that, this is really appreciated! Copying Sophie, as 
she was afraid that the ReCaptcha might exclude non-English speakers.


I indeed see that the spam is becoming a problem, and for about 6-9 
months, the QuestyCaptcha seems to have worked just fine, even with just 
English locale.


Sophie, can we give it a try again, what do you think?

Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Sophie Gautier
Hi Flo,
On 01/07/2013 15:27, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 Hi Volker,
 
 Volker Merschmann wrote on 2013-06-30 13:20:
 Summary:
 Spam and unused registration is increasing since changing back to the
 ReCaptcha. From my experience it will increase more as the information
 about a wiki that is accessible will be pushed around.

 Conclusion:
 We should put down the ReCaptcha again.

 Proposal:
 For the moment we shoud re-install the questy captcha.

 I have heard that there have been complaints from some language
 communities about the accessibility of the wikiregistration.
 But in the time I wrote this, two new users have inserted their spam
 in the wiki.
 We obviously can not allow this and the dirty  work of blocking and
 deleting prevents us from doing more useful things.
 
 thanks a lot for that, this is really appreciated! Copying Sophie, as
 she was afraid that the ReCaptcha might exclude non-English speakers.
 
 I indeed see that the spam is becoming a problem, and for about 6-9
 months, the QuestyCaptcha seems to have worked just fine, even with just
 English locale.
 
 Sophie, can we give it a try again, what do you think?

Well I think asking questions in English about something where you have
to scroll the TDF site and read it to find the answer is something very
very difficult for our non English speaking community, but I'm not the
one to decide here, if you think it's better, lets go.
Cheers
Sophie


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hello,

Sophie Gautier wrote on 2013-07-01 17:36:

Well I think asking questions in English about something where you have
to scroll the TDF site and read it to find the answer is something very
very difficult for our non English speaking community, but I'm not the
one to decide here, if you think it's better, lets go.


do you have an alternate proposal? The only alternative I see at the 
moment would be to lock account creation, and manually approve them...


Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Sophie Gautier
Hi Flo,
On 01/07/2013 17:41, Florian Effenberger wrote:
 Hello,
 
 Sophie Gautier wrote on 2013-07-01 17:36:
 Well I think asking questions in English about something where you have
 to scroll the TDF site and read it to find the answer is something very
 very difficult for our non English speaking community, but I'm not the
 one to decide here, if you think it's better, lets go.
 
 do you have an alternate proposal? The only alternative I see at the
 moment would be to lock account creation, and manually approve them...

Unfortunately, nothing else than what I've already suggested which is
not in the plan for the next year ;)
More seriously, I'm not technical enough to know what can be done, I'm
only warning that making it more difficult to contribute for our members
is not the best currently. I would be more in a favor to recruit more
people to take care of the wiki like you've done for the lists. But
again if there is no other way to go, lets do it.
I'm in close relation with the FR wikimedia leads, I can try to
understand how they deal with that if you want too.
Cheers
Sophie


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Jonathan Aquilina
Florian wouldnt it be advantageous to work with upstream media wiki to see
if they could make the questy captcha localizable?


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi Flo,
 On 01/07/2013 17:41, Florian Effenberger wrote:
  Hello,
 
  Sophie Gautier wrote on 2013-07-01 17:36:
  Well I think asking questions in English about something where you have
  to scroll the TDF site and read it to find the answer is something very
  very difficult for our non English speaking community, but I'm not the
  one to decide here, if you think it's better, lets go.
 
  do you have an alternate proposal? The only alternative I see at the
  moment would be to lock account creation, and manually approve them...

 Unfortunately, nothing else than what I've already suggested which is
 not in the plan for the next year ;)
 More seriously, I'm not technical enough to know what can be done, I'm
 only warning that making it more difficult to contribute for our members
 is not the best currently. I would be more in a favor to recruit more
 people to take care of the wiki like you've done for the lists. But
 again if there is no other way to go, lets do it.
 I'm in close relation with the FR wikimedia leads, I can try to
 understand how they deal with that if you want too.
 Cheers
 Sophie


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi,

Jonathan Aquilina wrote on 2013-07-01 18:46:

Florian wouldnt it be advantageous to work with upstream media wiki to see
if they could make the questy captcha localizable?


that clearly would be a good idea. Are you interested in working on this?

Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Florian Effenberger

Hi,

Sophie Gautier wrote on 2013-07-01 18:21:


More seriously, I'm not technical enough to know what can be done, I'm
only warning that making it more difficult to contribute for our members
is not the best currently. I would be more in a favor to recruit more
people to take care of the wiki like you've done for the lists. But


I do see the problem, sadly there's a technical limitation with the 
captcha - and me, lacking development skills, can't fix this.



again if there is no other way to go, lets do it.
I'm in close relation with the FR wikimedia leads, I can try to
understand how they deal with that if you want too.


That'd be great! Can you ask them how they solve it? I assume they are 
in a comfortable situation, as they have one localized wiki for each 
language and so don't run into the localization issue (each wiki has its 
own language at Wikipedia) - but getting feedback here would be great!


Thanks,
Florian

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Volker Merschmann
Hi,

2013/7/1 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org:
 Sophie Gautier wrote on 2013-07-01 18:21:
 again if there is no other way to go, lets do it.
 I'm in close relation with the FR wikimedia leads, I can try to
 understand how they deal with that if you want too.


 That'd be great! Can you ask them how they solve it? I assume they are in a
 comfortable situation, as they have one localized wiki for each language and
 so don't run into the localization issue (each wiki has its own language at
 Wikipedia) - but getting feedback here would be great!


I doubt that we can use their solution.
They provide a global login (kind of single-sign-on). You register or
connect to your local wikipedia and get access to all NL-wikipedias
and connected wikis like wikiquote.
You always get a message on this fact when you log in.

Volker


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Wiki registration and spam statistics

2013-07-01 Thread Sophie Gautier
On 01/07/2013 21:59, Volker Merschmann wrote:
 Hi,
 
 2013/7/1 Florian Effenberger flo...@documentfoundation.org:
 Sophie Gautier wrote on 2013-07-01 18:21:
 again if there is no other way to go, lets do it.
 I'm in close relation with the FR wikimedia leads, I can try to
 understand how they deal with that if you want too.


 That'd be great! Can you ask them how they solve it? I assume they are in a
 comfortable situation, as they have one localized wiki for each language and
 so don't run into the localization issue (each wiki has its own language at
 Wikipedia) - but getting feedback here would be great!

 
 I doubt that we can use their solution.
 They provide a global login (kind of single-sign-on). You register or
 connect to your local wikipedia and get access to all NL-wikipedias
 and connected wikis like wikiquote.
 You always get a message on this fact when you log in.

Well, as we don't think anymore to have a wiki in local language, I
don't see any other solution than protecting the wiki, as I don't have
the technical skills to see otherwise, but that's against the community too.

Cheers
Sophie


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