Re: [Webware-devel] ANN: DBUtils 1.2 released

[Chuck Esterbrook]

When I go to the home page, there are no links to download 1.2 or see its
release notes. Here is a screen shot:

[image: Inline image 1]



On Sun, Feb 5, 2017 at 5:11 AM, Christoph Zwerschke  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> new releases of DBUtils are available for download.
>
> DBUtils can be used as Webware for Python plugin
> or with other multi-threaded web environments for Python.
>
> Version 1.1.1 supports Python 2.3 to 2.7
> Version 1.2 supports Python 2.6, 2.7 and 3.x
>
> Documentation and download links can be found on the new homepage:
> https://cito.github.io/DBUtils/
>
> Let me know if there are any issues with the new releases.
>
> -- Christoph
>
> 
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Re: [Webware-devel] ANN: Webware and DBUtils 1.0 released

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 6:32 AM, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
>> But I was a little surprised that after all the work you recently put
>> in, you would then immediately outline a roadmap that sounds like "how
>> to evaporate Webware" at which point its hard to imagine using 1.0 for
>> anything. I *wasn't* surprised when several unsubscribes followed your
>> message. If sub 3.0 focuses on removing non-WebKit items and 3.0 gets
>> rid of the app server, then what is left at the end of the road?
>
> Maybe I did not use the right wording. What I wanted to get across was
> not "how to evaporate Webware" but "how to keep Webware alive and
> support exisiting Webware apps as long as possible" given the currently
> available resources (e.g. mainly my own limited amount of time).
>
> Concerning the app server, it will still remain in 1.x and be usable for
> many years. In 3.x it will not be needed any more, because Webware will
> then support WSGI and you will be able to connect directly to Apache or
> any webserver with WSGI suport.
>
> And what alternative do we have? WebKit's ThreadedAppServer has hit the
> wall built by the GIL (which will stay in Py 3.0) on multicore machines.
> So we would need to develop another MultiProcessAppServer. We'd also
> need to maintain mod_webkit and the other adapters for our AppServer to
> make them run with newer Apache versions or modern web servers such as
> lighttpd, nginx or cherokee. That would be a huge effort and I currently
> don't see a compelling reason and people supporting this idea.
>
> I think the causal connection is inverse: People do not unsubscribe
> because Webware will not be expanded, but Webware cannot be expanded
> because developers and users lost interest (already some years ago).
> ...

I was referring to the rash of unsubscribes that followed shortly
after the roadmap.

>> I agree with the 1.1 idea of removing support for old versions of Python.
>
> By that I mean that I also want to make use of newer Python features so
> that the code will look less ugly and become more performant.

Yes, didn't mean to imply otherwise, although I can see that I did.

> These are things I already planned to implement in upcoming versions.
> This would also allow us to optionally print deprecation warnings when
> the old names are used and make migration much easier. The old names
> could then be phased out in version 3.0 or 4.0 or so.

Or we could support the fooBar names for people who prefer them.  :-)

Python's approach of naming is still odd and inconsistent. Consider
dictionary with fromkeys, has_key and popitem. Which is it? "foobar"
or "foo_bar"? Maybe they cleaned that up in 3.0; I haven't checked.

>> Had I put more consistent effort into Webware through the years,
>> including updating it with the times, then it might have become the
>> premiere app server for the Python community.
>
> Your departure certainly was the main reason why Webware stalled after
> the 0.8.1 release and never really regained momentum after that. It's
> always a big problem and a challenge if the original founder and owner
> of a project phases out.
>
> I saw the same happening with TurboGears which is also moving moving
> forward very bumpily after Kevin Dangoor left. That's not meant as an
> accusation; it just seems you or Kevin are persons who like tackling
> huge, venturous projects such as Webware (or even Cobra) more than the
> continuous maintenance and boring detail work once the main work is
> done. Open source actually needs both kinds of people.

I did plenty of maintenance work on Webware after it became usable and
was in production environments. As explained in my previous message, I
became convinced we could do better than Python and subsequently
started Cobra. And I continue to do plenty of detail work on Cobra
including bug fixes and code cleanup.

>> In addition to moving towards Cobra 1.0, I'm also looking to make it
>> multibackend starting with JVM support and following that with a cross
>> VM library (VM = Virtual Machine as in .NET or JVM). It will then
>> become interesting to ask if there should be a cross VM app server...
>> a Webware for Cobra.
>
> So that may become the real replacement for Webware's appserver then :-)

:-)


-Chuck
-- 
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Re: [Webware-devel] ANN: Webware and DBUtils 1.0 released

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Thanks for the kudos.

But I was a little surprised that after all the work you recently put
in, you would then immediately outline a roadmap that sounds like "how
to evaporate Webware" at which point its hard to imagine using 1.0 for
anything. I *wasn't* surprised when several unsubscribes followed your
message. If sub 3.0 focuses on removing non-WebKit items and 3.0 gets
rid of the app server, then what is left at the end of the road?

** Random feedback on your comments:

Regarding plug-ins, AFAIK setuptools, distutils, etc. don't cover
automatic discovery by an application server, augmenting app server
admin pages, versioning, etc. which is where I was planning on going
with Webware plug-ins. No one ever seemed to understand that and I
never found the time to develop them further with more capabilities,
code and docs. Oh, well.

Regarding unicode, isn't that baked into Python strings in 3.0? Does
anything have to "be done"? On .NET which is where I've been doing a
lot of work in lately, Unicode is simply implicit and free.

I agree with the 1.1 idea of removing support for old versions of Python.

Regarding naming conventions, we discussed the following enhancement
on this list a long time ago, but no one got around to implementing
it. Here's a recap:

Support you prefer to say obj.foo_bar() over WebKit's obj.fooBar()? We
can provide that by enhancing WebKit.Object's __getattr__ to look up
"fooBar" for any "foo_bar", enhance the __dict__ of the class where
"fooBar" was located to now have an entry for "foo_bar" and return the
value. This is only slow on the first fetch and just as fast as usual
afterwards.

Another idea was to make things like self.request() into properties so
you can say self.request. You can avoid breaking existing code by
simply adding a WebKit.Object.__call__ that returns self. Pretty neat,
imo.


** General comments:

Personally, I enjoy using WebKit and MiddleKit and I also make use of
various tools in MiscUtils and WebUtils. The productivity there is
still good so I've had zero incentive to move existing apps to other
frameworks. I'm working on such a project this very week.

I thank you for your efforts and stewardship! And for making a 1.0
branch for maintenance.

I'm also interested in hearing what people on the list have to say,
especially those that maintain existing apps.

Also, very important, would be to ask the webware-discuss members what
they would like to see in the future, whether they are maintaining
apps, etc.


** Why I Faded Out

Had I put more consistent effort into Webware through the years,
including updating it with the times, then it might have become the
premiere app server for the Python community. However, I became
disillusioned with Python over the long run due to various problems
including lack of performance, the GIL, lack of property syntax, etc.

Consequently, I created the Cobra programming language which already
has numerous advantages over Python. See
http://cobra-language.com/docs/python/

Cobra is more fundamental to me and, compared to Webware, can be
applied to a wide variety of projects (web, games, simulation,
finances, AI, etc.). Therefore, I see it as a consistent, life long
project for myself.

In addition to moving towards Cobra 1.0, I'm also looking to make it
multibackend starting with JVM support and following that with a cross
VM library (VM = Virtual Machine as in .NET or JVM). It will then
become interesting to ask if there should be a cross VM app server...
a Webware for Cobra.


-Chuck
-- 
http://cobra-language.com/

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Re: [Webware-devel] ANN: Webware and DBUtils 0.9.4 released

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Thanks again for your hard work, Chris.   -Chuck

On 7/7/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Webware 0.9.4 and DBUtils 0.9.4 have been released.
>
> The new release of Webware for Python contains some fixes and
> improvements of WebKit, and it adds some more configuration settings
> that have been requested by users. The details can be found in the
> WebKit release notes.
>
> The new DBUtils release fixes a problem in the destructor code and
> has been supplemented with a German user's guide.
>
> Check out the Webware for Python home page at http://www.w4py.org
>
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Re: [Webware-devel] Status of 0.9.3 release

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 4/1/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just a short note for those who waited for the 0.9.3 release.
> Unfortunately, it will take some more time since I didn't find enough
> time to complete it this weekend and there are still some important
> issues on my list. Plus, I just noticed a new issue with Python 2.5 and
> AutoReload (the behavior of sys.path_hooks has been changed in an
> incompatible way, so ImportSpy does not work correctly any more).
>
> -- Chris

Thanks again for your efforts! I'm sure we'll all enjoy 0.9.3 when it
comes out. I haven't been able to find the time to do any direct work,
but when 0.9.3 is close to done, I'll certainly provide testing.

-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] Custom error pages

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 3/24/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One thing I always disliked about Webware is the static 404 error page.
...

Your proposal sounds good to me.

I just hope Webware is uber stable when we call it 1.0.

G'night,
-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] Magic number?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 3/23/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > All sounds good except I wonder if making it relative to threads is
> > worthwhile the level of indirection. We can just default it to twice
> > the size. But I leave it up to you. Maybe there's something I'm
> > missing.
>
> I wanted to explicitly set it to something in the default configuration
> in order to document it is there. But then people may forget to adapt it
> when increasing the number of threads. I solved this now by setting the
> default queue size to zero, interpreting this as twice the maximum
> number of threads (i.e. same behavior as before). If set to a positive
> number, then this will become the absolute size of the queue,
> independent of the other settings.

Sounds good.

> I also cleaned the configuration doc a little. Shall we document the
> settings there and put them in the default AppServer.config file or
> shall we leave them undocumented? Such fine-tuning parameters may scare
> people unnecessarily.

I think they are already documented in the regular docs. I'd prefer to
just give a pointer to that if we don't have one already. As someone
who already knows the settings, I could be biased in this matter.

-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] Magic number?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 3/23/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > On 3/23/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I recently stumbled over the following lines in ThreadedAppServer:
> >>
> >> def makeInput(self):
> >> return self._sock.makefile("rb",8012)
> >>
> >> Is there any reason why the number 8012 was chosen? I assume the intend
> >> was to use an 8192 Byte (8k) buffer, and this is just a typo, or am I
> >> overlooking something and the number has a particular reason?
> >
> > I can't relate that number to anything. Also, it seems like it should
> > be a config setting.
>
> Apropos config settings, there is this passage already:
>
> DefaultConfig = {
> ...
> # @@ 2000-04-27 ce: None of the following settings are implemented
> # 'RequestQueueSize': 16,
> # 'RequestBufferSize': 64*1024,
> # 'SocketType': 'inet', # inet, unix
> }
>
> So should we use RequestBufferSize for this?
>
> And while we are at it, we could also implement RequestQueueSize.
>
> Currently the app server uses the following setting:
>
> self._requestQueue = Queue.Queue(self._maxServerThreads * 2)
>
> This makes sense, so instead of an absolute number, we could make
> RequestQueueSize relative to MaxServerThreads, with a default of 2?

All sounds good except I wonder if making it relative to threads is
worthwhile the level of indirection. We can just default it to twice
the size. But I leave it up to you. Maybe there's something I'm
missing.

I guess it would be silly if the queue size was less than max threads
so then we should print a warning or stick with the factor.

-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] Magic number?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 3/23/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I recently stumbled over the following lines in ThreadedAppServer:
>
> def makeInput(self):
> return self._sock.makefile("rb",8012)
>
> Is there any reason why the number 8012 was chosen? I assume the intend
> was to use an 8192 Byte (8k) buffer, and this is just a typo, or am I
> overlooking something and the number has a particular reason?

I can't relate that number to anything. Also, it seems like it should
be a config setting.

-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] Tabify/Spacify. Was: Future Webware versions

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 3/20/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook schrieb:
> > What about [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s suggestion:
> > """
> > What if you stayed with tabs and then added a converter, so that you
> > can quickly convert the tabs to the number of spaces that you want?
> > In fact, this might be a good idea for a lot of free source Python
> > projects distributed on the web -- though I would suspect it would be
> > better to use tabs as the default and offer the ability to convert to
> > space because sometimes it's possible it might not look quite right
> > converting a project coded for spaces to tabs.
> > """
> >
> > It allows everyone to use their favorite approach.
> >
> > You mentioned something about patches being a mess, but I don't see
> > why. People could send in patches as "all spaces" or "all tabs" or am
> > I not thinking of something?
>
> I saw the problem in converting to the number of spaces "that you want".
>   As long as the converter uses a fixed size, it would not be a mess.

Why couldn't it be to the number "that you want" and then back? That
might be nice. Some people like 2, some 3 and some 4. A clever tabify
could even detect it.

But nevermind because I see your point further below.

> It still would be inconvenient, because you always have to think about
> this issue and either convert back and forth manually, or use a script,
> or change the settings in your editor. I'm working with a lot of Python
> code from various sources, and they all use 4 spaces for indentation
> since it's recommended in PEP8. I do not even need to think about tabs
> and tab sizes any more, it's only Webware where I need to worry.

Well, actually why do you need to worry? I set my editor to Tab Size =
4 years ago and that was it. You can even do Tab = 3 or Tab = 2 if
your preference is different than mine.

> It's not a big deal and I can live with tabs very well, but if we want
> to change, this release would be a good opportunity.

Ah ha! You said, "I can live with tabs very well."

But even if we did it, I'd prefer any major change after the 1.0 release.

> > I suppose there would then be a burden on people who use spaces to
> > invoke a script prior to checkin, but could that also be done via a
> > script? Something like:
> >
> > # ci
> > tabify -r .
> > svn ci $*
> > spacify -r .
>
> I'm not sure how to do this on the server (repository) side. On the
> client side people also use IDEs or TortoiseSVN to check code in. And
> this should only run for Webware, not for other projects. Generally I
> don't like too much automagic because then you always have to worry
> whether it is really active etc.

Yeah I see what you're saying about IDEs, Tortoise, etc. Good point.

I still think that leaving tabs in place allows people to set the size
to what they want.

I read that Guido likes 4 spaces, but Google, where he now works,
mandates 2. If Guido had mandated tabs and tabs only (1 per indent)
then people could use whatever they want. If he's now mandating 4
spaces for future versions of Python, then he's ramming his preference
down his coworkers' throat. (In this argument, I'll also add a rule of
"no tabs after indentation".) On the other hand, maybe he has other
reasons for doing it ("normalizing" Python source code appearance in
print, for example).


-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] Future Webware versions

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 3/19/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > I had a problem on Mac using Webware out of the repository where the
> > AutoReload feature would not work. I believe it threw an exception
> > related to importing modules, but it's been awhile.
> > I'll try to test it out this week and see if I can reproduce and fix it.
>
> Unfortunately I have no Mac experience and equipment, so it will be good
> if you check this. The only thing I did last time was running the tests
> on a Mac in the SourceForge compile farm, but that probably didn't cover
> the AutoReload feature.
>
> > I really think we should up the requirement *after* 1.0 since we're so
> > close to 1.0 right now.
>
> Ok. I'll postpone major changes until then. We can then maintain the
> stable branch as 1.0.x and continue with 1.1 or 2.0 depending on how
> radically we're going to change and break things, or maybe we make two
> steps. I like your idea of properties with the __call__ hack for
> backward compatibility.
>
> Another question is whether we should support WSGI and develop Webware
> in a similar direction as Ian's "Wareweb", maybe reusing some of his
> idea and code.
>
> Btw, how do you think about the transition from tabs to spaces? Before
> 1.0, after 1.0, or never? ;-) 4 spaces are standard per PEP 008, and it
> seems they will even become standard for C sources of Python 3K.

What about [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s suggestion:
"""
What if you stayed with tabs and then added a converter, so that you
can quickly convert the tabs to the number of spaces that you want?
In fact, this might be a good idea for a lot of free source Python
projects distributed on the web -- though I would suspect it would be
better to use tabs as the default and offer the ability to convert to
space because sometimes it's possible it might not look quite right
converting a project coded for spaces to tabs.
"""

It allows everyone to use their favorite approach.

You mentioned something about patches being a mess, but I don't see
why. People could send in patches as "all spaces" or "all tabs" or am
I not thinking of something?

I suppose there would then be a burden on people who use spaces to
invoke a script prior to checkin, but could that also be done via a
script? Something like:

# ci
tabify -r .
svn ci $*
spacify -r .

The "-r ." could actually be the default behavior of tabify and spacify.
The ci script could be put in your path.

Would this make life better?

-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] Future Webware versions

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 3/18/07, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On webware-discuss I already announced that I want to release the next
> Webware version 0.9.3 very soon. If anybody has suggestions or patches
> or bug reports that I should take into account, please let me know.

I had a problem on Mac using Webware out of the repository where the
AutoReload feature would not work. I believe it threw an exception
related to importing modules, but it's been awhile.

I'll try to test it out this week and see if I can reproduce and fix it.

> What about the idea of releasing a 1.0 version without much change if
> the 0.9.3 turns out to be stable?

Sounds good to me. I had thought about suggesting the same thing.

> One big change I wanted to make is to require Python 2.3 or 2.4. This
> would allow us to remove a lot of old garbage and code many things
> simpler. It would be an opportunity to really clear out the code base.
> The question is should we do this before or after 1.0 because these
> refactoring will certainly bring some instability again. (Unfortunately,
> Webware's few tests do not cover very much.)

I really think we should up the requirement *after* 1.0 since we're so
close to 1.0 right now.

> The next big change could be the transition to more contemporary coding
> style and tools, naming conventions, using setuptools and getting rid of
> Webware's peculiar plug-in architecture. This would break backward
> compatibility more or less so it should be done in a new major version
> as well. I'm also not sure whether I or anybody else will have enough
> time and energy to ever tackle this. For new projects, it seems to make
> more sense to use one of the nice contemporary web frameworks. So it may
> be better to release the 1.0 now than never.

I guess the question is whether or not anyone will put in the time to
do these things. My particular wish is for more properties and less
methods. For example, self.request.urlPath. But I was hoping a nicer
syntax for properties would have been added to Python by now!

Note that backward compatibility can still be maintained by having
WebKit.Object __call__() return self.

I also have a setUp() and tearDown() for servlets that don't require a
parameter or calling super (unlike awake/sleep). I've been using them
locally, but they're not checked in.

I also have a bunch of reusable code which I felt I didn't have time
to document and support properly...

I'm still using Webware, but I'm also pretty busy and Webware does
what I need it to do. That makes it hard for me to find time for
enhancing it.

And btw we all appreciate your efforts, Christoph! You've been great
for the project.


-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] WSGI Webware Paste - Remote Debugging

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 8/23/06, Doug Tillman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm a Java web app developer turned Webware developer.  I'm very
> interested in the remote debugging issues noted in the list archives
> message:
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=3879709
>
> Last night I was reading about WSGI (PEP333) and Paste.  It seems like
> there may be some opportunity to achieve the kind of multi-threaded
> debugging capability that is used in the Java world.
>
> The ability to step through remotely running Webware servlets would be a
> great debugging tool.  Has anybody looked into this or got it working
> with Wing or any other IDE?
>
> Any further info or pointers to make this remote debug thing doable
> would be most appreciated.

Doug, I have gotten so much utility out of the Exception Report that
even though I once had "investigate remote debugging" on my TO DO
list, I never got around to it. I also occasionally sneak in print
statements in the production environment source code if I need to see
the flow of execution.

And prior to going to production, I have plenty of assert statements
in my code to catch problems early.

I know that's not exactly what you were looking for, but hopefully it
is useful information to you.

-Chuck

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Re: [Webware-devel] WebKit.SelectRelease?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 8/11/06, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Can I remove the SelectRelease module in the WebKit package? It seems it
> was only used by the AsyncThreadedAppServer which has gone already.
>
> -- Christoph

No objections here.

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Re: [Webware-devel] Webware summer (weekend) of code

[Chuck Esterbrook]

I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to thank you for all your
hard work and contributions!

-Chuck


On 7/8/06, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In preparation of a new Webware bugfix release, this weekend I have been
> processing the Sourceforge bug tracker and implemented some very old
> bugfixes and patches, and closed outdated issues. If you have other
> changes that shall go to the next release, let me know.
>
> -- Christoph
>
>
> -
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Re: [Webware-devel] Webware 0.9.1 beta 1 available

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 4/9/06, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As promised, I have cut a new beta release. It contains all bug fixes
> and enhancements made after version 0.9 so far, plus a couple of other
> improvements and bugfixes I made this weekend.
>
> Particularly, ImportSpy now uses new import hooks instead of ihooks (if
> available) and can be disabled completely via the AppServer.config
> setting "UseImportSpy" (if this is false, sys.modules will be polled).
>
> This release contains also new versions of the mod_webkit.dll (for
> Apache 1.3 and Apache 2) for Windows users.
>
> Since I changed quite a lot, I have made this a beta release only.
> Anyway, this release should be completely downward compatible. If
> everything is ok, the stable release can follow very quickly.
>
> Please test and let me know of any problems!
>
> -- Christoph

Christoph, thank you for all your hard work on this!

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] status of webware virtual server

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 4/3/06, Jason Hildebrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-04-03 at 18:10 +0200, Christoph Zwerschke wrote:
> > I just noticed that the name www.webwareforpython.org cannot be found in
> > the DNS any more. The alias www.w4py.org still works, but since most
> > links go to the full name, and since there is a redirection to the full
> > name, this does not help us.
>
> I have just renewed webwareforpython.org for another two years.  DNS
> should be back soon.


If you want to be reimbursed, just send me your address and I'll mail
you a check.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] New release?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 4/2/06, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > The polling could go into a 0.9.2. One problem that has vexed Webware
> > is that releases go weeks or even months without getting released so
> > one more thing can be added. In the mean time, people download the old
> > release and miss all the good stuff that's sitting in the repository.
>
> My idea was to add the polling next weekend (if nobody else does it) and
> make it optional in version 0.9.1, so it will not break anything, but
> people will be able to test and improve it. If it turns out to be better
> than the current approach, we can then make it the standard in 0.9.2. If
> I don't find the time to do it or it turns out to be too complicated, I
> can make a new release next weekend anyway. Would that be ok?
>
> -- Christoph

Sounds good.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] New release?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 4/1/06, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Since a couple of bugs have been fixed in the last months and a nice
> Ajax example was added, I think it is time for making a new 0.9.1
> release. However, one thing I would like to have in the new release is
> the (optional) use of polling instead of ImportSpy, something that has
> been discussed several times, because ImportSpy has issues with
> importing Cheetah templates, Python eggs etc. Anybody here willing to
> implement this? Otherwise I might have a try, which could be worse ;-)
>
> Other things that should be fixed/added to a 0.9.1 release?

The polling could go into a 0.9.2. One problem that has vexed Webware
is that releases go weeks or even months without getting released so
one more thing can be added. In the mean time, people download the old
release and miss all the good stuff that's sitting in the repository.

That's my 2 cents.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Re: [Cheetahtemplate-discuss] 2.0 bugs or warts?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

I'm working strictly off memory here, but I thought the point of the
implementation was that it used a special library (when available)
that eliminated the need for polling. Instead, the op sys would notify
the appserver process when a file changed.

Does that sound familiar?

Polling has the well known disadvantages of (1) the gap between polls
(too big? too small? never just right), (2) wasted effort checking for
something repeatedly and in this case, (3) the increased amount of
time required per poll as your app grows larger and uses more modules.

Although, I don't see why we couldn't have an option to use one
technique vs. another. We could even default it to polling sys.modules
since that seems less likely to disturb other Python packages like
Cheetah.

-Chuck


On 1/25/06, Tavis Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> last time I checked it was still there, but with a comment with your argument
> for removal.  I agree completely.
>
> On Wednesday 25 January 2006 2:29 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
> > Tavis Rudd wrote:
> > > Well, last time I checked, Webware didn't work with them.  This was
> > > either due to sys.path manipulations at startup or because of 'ImportSpy'
> > > - something used to support WebKit's autoreload behavior.  If it was the
> > > former, I suspect you can resolve the issue by install Cheetah's hooks
> > > after all the sys.path manipulations are finished.
> >
> > ImportSpy should really just be removed -- periodically scanning
> > sys.modules has the same effect, without an import hook.
> >
> > I thought that change actually happened at some point, but I can't
> > remember.
>
>
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[Webware-devel] Re: Wiki down?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 1/22/06, Chuck Esterbrook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey everybody,
>
> The Wiki link off http://www.webwareforpython.org/ appears to be down.
> Do we have a designated WikiMaster for this?
>
> -Chuck

False alarm. It came up. Just took awhile the first time.

-Chuck


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[Webware-devel] Wiki down?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Hey everybody,

The Wiki link off http://www.webwareforpython.org/ appears to be down.
Do we have a designated WikiMaster for this?

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] update to Cheetah entry on http://www.webwareforpython.org/Papers/Templates/

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 1/14/06, Tavis Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Howdy,
> the Cheetah entry on http://www.webwareforpython.org/Papers/Templates/ lists
> it as beta.  Can it be updated to say 'prod'?  Kid (http://kid.lesscode.org/)
> should probably have an entry as well.
>
> Cheers,
> Tavis

It's been so long since I updated the web site, I don't recall how
we're doing it. Can someone who does make these tweaks, or post on how
we're set up?

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Mailing list reply-to

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/20/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Seth Remington wrote:
> > "Reply to All" is a quick userland fix.
>
> Yes, but I always forget it because in other lists this is not needed.
> Also, this results in sending the message to the list plus to the author
> who will receive it two times.

I have been annoyed by this as well. I just updated the list options
so in the future, replies will go to the list by default.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Problem with AutoReload

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/19/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I noticed that this problem exists only with Python 2.3. It seems to be
> fixed in Python 2.4 already, so I think there is no need to discuss it
> in comp.lang.python.
>
> What I could do is add a linecache.checkcache() as a workaround.
>
> There are four modules where this could be added - I'm unsere where is
> the most appropriate place:
>
> ServletFactory, ImportSpy, AutoReloadingAppServer or ExceptionHandler?
>
> -- Christoph

If it's fixed in Python 2.4, is simply upgrading an option?

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Problem with AutoReload

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/19/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The ReleaseNotes for 0.9 say "AutoReload no longer catches servlet
> updates (since servlets can be reloaded without restarting the entire
> server anyway)." (This was checked in by Ian in Revision 1956).
>
> Generally, I'd say this is a good idea, but I noticed there is also a
> drawback: The exception traceback output does not use the updated
> source. If lines have been added or deleted from the source, it shows a
> wrong line as being erroneous. This makes debugging cumbersome.
>
> Anybody has an idea how this could be improved? Maybe simply reloading
> the source before printing the traceback? Any suggestions for a patch?
>
> -- Christoph

I develop from a debugging environment (WingIDE) so instead of looking
at the WebKit-generated traceback for the servlet, my dev environment
gives it to me (correctly).

When I run in production, I don't use AutoReload.

So this problem doesn't affect me. I do remember experiencing it back
when I didn't develop out of an IDE. My impression was that it was a
bug in Python since the servlet's module *is* getting reloaded. Maybe
if you can recreate the issue in a small standalone example, you can
ask comp.lang.python for help.


-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Test results

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/13/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Or should I update the w4py.org server to 0.9 before making the release
> in order to have another real-world test?
>
> -- Chris

I suggest making the release.

Regarding w4py.org, I'm not sure what specific security issues you're
referring to with regards to having the whole tree available. As long
as the .py files and other scripts are not executed by the web server,
we'll be fine. If they are, we can fix it or restrict to just docs
like you suggest. We already have access to the .py files on a
continuous basis:

http://svn.w4py.org/Webware/trunk/WebKit/HTTPRequest.py

But an installed copy of Webware has the unpacked docs as well--and
the .py files in that copy are nothing new.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Test results

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/12/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > I cannot break out of ThreadedAppServer with Ctrl+C whether at the
>  > command prompt or running inside WingIDE.
>  > The DebugAppServer can break out fine.
>  > I'm on Win XP Pro with Python 2.4.1.
>
> It works on my Win XP Pro and Py 2.4.1 (tried only command line
> (cmd.exe), not WingIDE), and in the code, I cannot see why there should
> be any difference between ThreadedAppServer and DebugAppServer in rc1.
>
> If I run AppServer.bat using cmd.exe in the directory /Webware/WebKit
> and press Ctrl+C it says "Exiting AppServer due to keyboard interrupt"
> and shuts down.
>
> -- Chris

Well I do have a couple local mods to the source although I don't see
how they would be related. Also, I only really use the Debug Server on
my local Windows box. And on production, under Linux, I have no
problems.

Since it works for you and no one else has reported a problem, let's
go ahead and release.

If you're making the release from the repository (instead of renaming
rc1) then please test again.


-Chuck


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[Webware-devel] Test results

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Overall, my testing went well. I poked around my apps and I ran
several unit tests from the command line (and checked in a couple
tweaks).

I cannot break out of ThreadedAppServer with Ctrl+C whether at the
command prompt or running inside WingIDE.

The DebugAppServer can break out fine.

I'm on Win XP Pro with Python 2.4.1.


I can look into the cause of ThreadedAppServer's unresponsiveness to
Ctrl+C, but not until Sat or Sun.


Have a good weekend everybody,

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Re: Towards Webware for Python 0.9

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/10/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is it ok if I cut the final 0.9 release this weekend? I heard no
> complaints about the 0.9 rc1 in the last time.
>
> -- Chris

Sounds fine to me. I'll be doing on Fri, 11/11 during the day (EDT).

If I find anything, I'll fix it or report it.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Re: [Webware-checkins] r3586

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/5/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BTW, it would be good to write a small press release article for
> announcing Webware 0.9. Can you do that? I think we need to make a
> little bit marketing/propaganda so people will be aware that Webware is
> still alive. It may not be the latest hype, but it is a well proven
> platform-independent framwork. It has been said that Webware is
> difficult to install and use for beginners, but even that has improved,
> there are more and better docs, some stumbling blocks have been removed
> and you can immediately play with the built-in HTTP server.

Sounds good.

Sure I can write something up, but it sounds like you started this
already with the paragraph above. So I'll take that and polish it and
pass it back to you for your thoughts and more polishing.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Re: [Webware-checkins] r3586

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 11/3/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> BTW, spaces around comparison operators make pylint happy.
>
> Anyway, you're completely right, this was not the moment for such
> clean-up and nit-pick because I unnecessarily forced others to review
> many petty and unnecessary things. I'm sorry.
>
> -- Chris

I'm sorry I got mad. But the 0.9 release has been delayed by last
minute changes more than once which is why I got frustrated. Let's
just proceed working towards 0.9.

-Chuck


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[Webware-devel] Re: [Webware-checkins] r3586 - in Webware/trunk: MiddleKit/Run MiscUtils PSP WebKit WebKit/Adapters WebKit/Experimental WebKit/Tasks WebUtils bin

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Why is "Returns" being changed into "Return" everywhere?

def webKitVersionString(self):
-   """ Returns the WebKit version as a printable string. """
+   """Return the WebKit version as a printable string."""

I got the Returns style from NeXTstep (now Mac OS X). Think of it this
way: Q: "What does foo() do?" A: "It returns a blah." or "foo()
returns a blah."  Try the singular version: "foo() return blah."

And it was important to add a spaces around comparison operators??

This isn't life and death stuff, but it does look like peeing all over
the code to make it smell like yours. Should I pee back?  :-)

But my biggest concern is that if we're going to cut 0.9.1 final off
the trunk, we now have tons of changes. So many that reviewing them is
painful. A print preview of the checkin email is 56 pages. Some of the
diffs span large contiguous blocks, making it hard to see at a glance
what was changed.

If this stuff goes into 0.9.1 then we'll need an rc2.


-Chuck


On 11/3/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Author: chrisz
> Date: Thu Nov  3 07:46:41 2005
> New Revision: 3586
>
> Modified:
>Webware/trunk/MiddleKit/Run/ObjectStore.py
>Webware/trunk/MiscUtils/Funcs.py
>Webware/trunk/MiscUtils/PickleRPC.py
>Webware/trunk/PSP/ParseEventHandler.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/Adapters/Adapter.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/Adapters/HTTPAdapter.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/AppServer.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/Application.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/Cookie.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/Experimental/NewPage.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/Tasks/__init__.py
>Webware/trunk/WebKit/WebwarePathLocation.py
>Webware/trunk/WebUtils/FieldStorage.py
>Webware/trunk/bin/checksrc.py
> Log:
> Comment clean-up to fit the style guide.
>
> Modified: Webware/trunk/MiddleKit/Run/ObjectStore.py
> ==
> --- Webware/trunk/MiddleKit/Run/ObjectStore.py  (original)
> +++ Webware/trunk/MiddleKit/Run/ObjectStore.py  Thu Nov  3 07:46:41 2005
> @@ -398,7 +398,7 @@
> If you subclass MiddleObject, then you're taken care of.
> """
> self.willChange()
> -   self._changedObjects[object] = object  ## @@ 2000-10-06 ce: 
> Should this be keyed by the object.key()? Does it matter?
> +   self._changedObjects[object] = object  # @@ 2000-10-06 ce: 
> Should this be keyed by the object.key()? Does it matter?
>
>
> ## Serial numbers ##
snip


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Re: [Webware-devel] Ctrl-C interrupt

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/23/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The problem with DebugAppServer was that it finished without stopping
> the "close thread" when an exception was raised and not handled. I've
> just checked in a fix for the DebugAppServer so that it shuts down
> properly. Please check whether it is ok that way.
>
> -- Christoph

Works great. I can tell the app server to exit gracefully with Ctrl-C.
Setting breakpoints works fine. Use the application works fine. I
tested from both the command prompt (well, not breakpoints) and from
WingIDE.

Thanks for the turn around.

I don't know of any other outstanding issues with the current Webware
repository.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Ctrl-C interrupt

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/22/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> In the new workspace there are 2 problems. The output isn't nearly as
> >> friendly and my command window is completely frozen.
>
> The problem seems to be that the DebugAppServer freezes always when an
> exception is raised - in this case, a KeyboardInterrupt exception. In
> the old version, the Ctrl-C was trapped a little bit differently without
> raising a KeyboardInterrupt, so it did not happen there. I have checked
> in a change so that DebugAppServer will not care for KeyboardInterrupts,
> so the Ctrl-C issue should be fixed.
>
> But the problem that DebugAppServer freezes when an exception is raised
> still exists, and it existed already in the 0.9b3. Can you have a look
> at that? I'm unsure what the expected behavior of the DebugAppServer
> should be.
>
> -- Christoph

I'll look into it sometime on Sunday.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] pushing for next release

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/22/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In the new workspace there are 2 problems. The output isn't nearly as
> > friendly and my command window is completely frozen.
>
> I've tried some more times, hitting Ctrl-C multiple times and things
> like that, but it always stopped gracefully. I also tested under Linux.
>
> But I think I found the problem. It seems to happen when you start the
> DebugAppServer, not the ThreadedAppServer. Can you confirm? If that's
> the case I think I can fix it very quickly.
>
> -- Christoph

Yep.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] pushing for next release

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/22/05, Chuck Esterbrook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/21/05, Chuck Esterbrook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On 10/21/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I really would like to go for the 0.9 release now.
> > [snip]
> >
> > I support this and will put in some testing tomorrow (Saturday).
> >
> > -Chuck
>
> I've completed my testing. I fixed a bug in MiddleKit and checked in a
> few other tweaks. I then banged on one of my applications and had zero
> problems. Looks good to me,
>
> -Chuck

Woops. I spoke too soon. Under my old Webware workspace, which could
be several weeks old or older, hitting Ctrl-C to stop the app server
worked fine (I do this when developing, not in production):

Listening for Adapter on ('127.0.0.1', 8086)
Listening for HTTP on ('127.0.0.1', 8080)
Ready (0.56 seconds after launch).
^C
Shutdown Called Sat Oct 22 16:48:13 2005
ThreadedAppServer: Shutting Down
Stopping AutoReload Monitor
Autoreload Monitor stopped
Shutting down the AppServer
Application is Shutting Down
Application has been succesfully shutdown.
AppServer has been shutdown
Terminate batch job (Y/N)? y
C:\...>


In the new workspace there are 2 problems. The output isn't nearly as
friendly and my command window is completely frozen. Additional ^C and
Break have no effect and I cannot get the prompt back. I have to close
the window.

^C
App server has been signaled to shutdown.
Shutting down at Sat Oct 22 16:45:57 2005
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "Launch.py", line 35, in ?
main(sys.argv)
  File "Launch.py", line 31, in main
WebKit.Launch.launchWebKit(args[1], appWorkPath, args[2:])
  File "C:\All\echuck\Work\NetEventsStudio\rundir\Launch.py", line
133, in launchWebKit

  File ".\WebKit\ThreadedAppServer.py", line 974, in main
  File ".\WebKit\ThreadedAppServer.py", line 857, in run
  File ".\WebKit\DebugAppServer.py", line 92, in mainloop
  File ".\WebKit\ThreadedAppServer.py", line 219, in mainloop
  File ".\WebKit\ThreadedAppServer.py", line 903, in shutDown
KeyboardInterrupt
*** TOTAL FREEZE AT THIS POINT ***

Isn't that a weird looking traceback too?

This is on WinXP Pro with Python 2.4. I have tried on Linux yet.

I'm out of time for this today, but we should resolve this before
cutting 0.9rc1. Has anybody made any changes in the past few months
that might relate to this?

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] pushing for next release

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/21/05, Chuck Esterbrook <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 10/21/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I really would like to go for the 0.9 release now.
> [snip]
>
> I support this and will put in some testing tomorrow (Saturday).
>
> -Chuck

I've completed my testing. I fixed a bug in MiddleKit and checked in a
few other tweaks. I then banged on one of my applications and had zero
problems. Looks good to me,

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Serving .pyc and .pyo directly

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/21/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just checked in a change that makes the PythonServletFactory
> responsible for .pyc and .pyo files as well besides .py files.
>
> For the default configuration, this makes no difference,
> since .pyc and .pyo are in both ExtensionsToIgnore and FilesToHide
> so they will not be served anyway.
>
> But by taking .pyc and .pyo away from ExtensionsToIgnore and FilesToHide
> you can now install servlets without their source code. This will be a
> little bit more perfomant in the production environment, but most of all
> it will prevent customers and administrators from messing around with
> the source code and give a certain level of protection as closed source.
> This feature has been requested on the mailing list several times.
>
> The former behavior was that if you took .pyc and .pyo away from
> ExtensionsToIgnore and FilesToHide, then they would be delivered as
> Files via the UnknownServletFactory. This could even be a security
> problem since the servlets could contain database passwords or other
> information. I think it makes much more sense to execute .pyc servlets
> instead of delivering them as files.
>
> By using ExtensionCascadeOrder you can also determine a priority, such
> as '.py' first (if available), then '.pyo', then '.pyc'.
>
> I'm using this feature since long and it has proven to be very handy.
>
> However, I kept the standard configuration that ignores/hides .pyc and
> .pyo files completely, so you still have to set it explicitely in the
> configuration if you want to use this.
>
> Hope everybody agrees.
>
> -- Christoph

Sounds good. Thanks for giving us an update.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] pushing for next release

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/21/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I really would like to go for the 0.9 release now.
[snip]

I support this and will put in some testing tomorrow (Saturday).

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] backup solution for w4py.org

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 10/21/05, Jason Hildebrand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tue, 2005-09-27 at 16:23 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> > I personally tend towards fairly open security, but I'm not sure what
> > other people feel.  We probably should have a backup plan at least for
> > the svn repository.
>
> The company I work for (PeaceWorks Computer Consulting) is willing to
> provide backup space to the Webware project.
>
> I would implement the backup as a daily cron job which tars up the
> subversion repository and wiki directories and rsyncs them to one of our
> servers, and would also keep a couple of older backups (from previous weeks)
> around so that we have more than just the previous day.
>
> Comments?  I will implement this within the next few days unless there are
> objections.

Sounds great to me. Thanks to you and your company.

-Chuck


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[Webware-devel] What versions of Python should we support?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Someone reported directly to me that Webware out of trunk now requires
Python 2.4, at least for install.py.

Should we support one version back to 2.3?

-Chuck


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[Webware-devel] When will 0.9 be released? (Re: [Webware-discuss] profiler.starttime problem)

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 9/29/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The SVN trunk is currently a bit unstable since I'm clearing out and
> improving the code in preparation of the 0.9 release. If there are any
> problems, please let me know and I will try to fix them.

It seems like we had stability with 0.9 beta 2. Now we don't have
stability. I appreciate the improvements, but given that 0.9 was first
released in Jul 14 and changes are still being made which destabilize
the code, I'm having my doubts that this will ever end.

As I've mentioned before, it's always the case on every release that
"it would be nice to fix FOO and add BAR" but there's no end to it. By
the time FOO is fixed and BAR is added there's a FOO2 and a BAR2.

Meanwhile people are still downloading and installing 0.8.1 even
though it has more problems than 0.9b2. And I'm guessing we're fixing
deficiencies that have been in Webware for a long time.

Is there any reason we shouldn't dub 0.9 beta 2 as 0.9 final? Further
improvements could go into 0.9.1.


-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Stylesheet propagation

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 9/10/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jason Hildebrand wrote:
> > I don't think Christoph was suggesting using symlinks in the filesystem, 
> > just
> > to use relative references in the HTML like so:
> >
> >
> 
> Yes, I was talking about that. I didn't want to set any links in the
> filesystem.

Ah. Too many "links" in computing.  :-)

Well I can't think of any reason not to.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Stylesheet propagation

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 9/9/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > Agreed, but...
> >
> > Microsoft Windows.
> 
> Hm, what's the problem with Microsoft Windows?
> I mean, except Microsoft Windows itself.

It doesn't have links like the posix/unix file system does. (Windows
has a poor substitute with .lnk files, but those are only interpreted
in key places like the File Explorer.)

You could use links on the posix side, but you would still have to use
copy for Windows. So when I built this way back when, I just went with
copy.

Life would certainly be easier if Windows had links like Mac and
Linux, and if Linux was case insensitive like Windows and Mac...

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] Stylesheet propagation

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 9/9/05, Christoph Zwerschke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Webware installer copies the stylesheet in the top level Docs folder
> to the Docs folder of all subpackages. Does anything speak against
> removing that propagation and using relative links pointing to the top
> folder instead? This would make the doco and doco creation process a bit
> simpler and clearer.

Agreed, but...

Microsoft Windows.


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Re: [Webware-devel] beta cut postponed for DBUtils

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Christoph's work looks very interesting, but I don't think it should
be tied to 0.9 at all. We've always faced this same situation with
past Webware releases where there are some enhancements some of us
would like to include--therefore, let's postpone the release.

One problem with this is that there's no end to it. By the time we've
decided on the details of including Christoph's work, there will be
something else to consider.

Another problem is that people will continue to download the old 0.8.1
release in place of any 0.9 beta even though the current beta is a
much better product.

Finally, releasing a 0.9 final does not preclude making a 0.9.1 or 1.0
just weeks later.

I strongly prefer we make an 0.9 release candidate 1 and include
Christoph's work (and some of my own upcoming ideas) in the release
after that.

-Chuck


On 9/7/05, Mark Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Christoph Zwerschke has new work he would like to check-in, and get
> feedback from the community.
> 
> Per his request, I have postponed the next beta cut until September 20.
> 
> Mark Phillips
> 
> 
> 
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[Webware-devel] Repository checkins

[Chuck Esterbrook]

- WebKit:
  - Added AutoReload support to DebugAppServer.
  - Added a __repr__() to WebKit.Cookie.
  - Enhanced WebUtils.Funcs.htmlEncode() to be less ornery and more flexible:
 - Former behavior was to raise an exception for None or any other
non-string.
 - Now returns WebUtils.Funcs.htmlForNone when passed None (default is '-')
 - It asks its argument to convert to html, if the argument supports that.
 - It converts its argument to a string, if necessary.

- WebUtils.HTMLTag: Improved the utility of this module when used to
validate HTML:
  - Added more "debugging info" to tags including line number and closing tag.
  - Changed __repr__() to give the tag arguments and this new info.
  - Other tweaks.
 
- MiddleKit.MiddleObject:
  - Added a __repr__() which returns self.debugStr() which is friendly
in both text
and HTML and is easy to extend by overriding debugKeys. See code
for details.
  - Fixed a couple bugs in clone().


I hope these will get built into a second beta for 0.9. The AutoReload
support in DebugAppServer is particularly useful.

-Chuck


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[Webware-devel] Re: [Webware-discuss] New DebugAppServer in Subversion

[Chuck Esterbrook]

I've now enhanced DebugAppServer to support the AutoReload setting. I
found this to be important because otherwise I had to manually start
and stop the app server if I modified a servlet's base class or some
supporting module. That gets old.

AutoReload is tricky to support because the DebugAppServer cannot
simply exit since your Python debugger would lose track of it.
Consequently, there are some limitations including no reload support
for changes made to WebKit or Python's standard modules.

It seems to work, but I want to test it a couple more days before
checking it in.

>From here on out, I'll be doing all web development in a debugging
environment (WingIDE in my case).

-Chuck


On 7/18/05, Geoffrey Talvola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > Geoff, This is fantastic and long overdue in WebKit! Thanks for
> > beating me to it.
> >
> > I noticed that WebKit was still catching exceptions and dumping them
> > to the console. This meant the Python debugger could not trap them in
> > order to let me inspect the live application. I fixed this and just
> > checked in now. Let me know if you have any problems with it.
> 
> Cool.  The case that motivated me to write this was a complicated servlet
> that was behaving incorrectly without an exception.  I actually never tested
> the exception case.
> 
> - Geoff
>


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Re: [Webware-devel] v0.9b1 tarball update

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 7/12/05, Mark Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> There is an svn tag for it named Release-0_9b1. I haven't committed
> anything to trunk.
> 
> I tested the tarball today and no unexpected failures were encountered
> during the AllTests routines.
> 
> I am at the point where the Release Procedures say to upload the tgz to
> sourceforge but, being new at this, I have a couple of questions.
> 
> 1. Is ncftp still the required utility to upload to sf? That is, will
> this still work:
> > ncftpput -V upload.sourceforge.net /incoming Webware-VER.tar.gz

I don't know. Keep in mind it's been a long time since we cut a
release and occasionally SourceForge changes things. You'll want to
consult their current docs.

> 2. I notice the 0.8 betas are not on sourceforge, so shall I upload the
> 0.9b1 somewhere else?

We were putting the betas on the web site just to avoid polluting the
SF Webware file release list with them since they are rather
temporary. I'm not religious about this. You can do that or make the
beta a real release.

> 3. Under "Release on SourceForge", there is an admonition to wait until
> after the final test before sending user notification. I have a notion
> as to what is meant, but would someone clarify that, please.

Once you release on SF you'll want to tell the whole world. That note
is a reminder to download the release, unpack it and test the product
first.

> BTW, on the 'to do' list is updating the Release Procedures doc and
> ReleaseHelper.py to use the svn. It seems to me that svn will simplify
> these two quite a bit. I suspect the commentary in Release Procedures
> about the mirror site at ebad.pair.com be removed or updated. Any
> thoughts?

Yeah ebad.pair.com is no more. If you still want to put an extra copy
of the release somewhere for when SF is broken, the web site would be
the place to do it.

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] status 500 on servlet errors breaks IE

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Your proposal sounds good to me.

-Chuck

On 7/11/05, Geoffrey Talvola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This checkin was made to Subversion back in January:
> 
>r2022 | jdhildeb | 2005-01-11 18:33:13 -0500 (Tue, 11 Jan 2005) | 3 lines
> 
>When a servlet exception occurs, set the HTTP status code to 500,
>"Servlet Error".  Thanks to Radoslaw Kintzi.
> 
> I recently noticed that Internet Explorer sometimes now displays a generic
> "The page cannot be displayed" error message instead of Webware's "The site
> is having technical difficulties with this page" message on servlet errors.
> I'm not sure why the behavior is not 100% reproducible or why it's
> IE-specific.  If I comment out this line from ExceptionHandler.py:
> 
> self._res.setStatus(500, "Servlet Error")
> 
> then IE seems to always display Webware's message, as it should.  It seems
> that sometimes, but not always, IE replaces the appserver-supplied error
> message with its own message when the status is 500.
> 
> I would like to switch the code back to the way it used to be, unless
> there's some important reason to use status code 500 that I'm missing.  Any
> comments?
> 
> - Geoff
> 
> 
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Re: [Webware-devel] Subversion stuff

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:44:58 -0500, Geoffrey Talvola wrote:
> A couple of questions / requests:
>
> - According to the webware-checkins mailing list, Chuck checked in
> some stuff today to Webware CVS.  Are we switched to Subversion or
> not?  I thought the answer was yes...

I don't recall using CVS...I've been using Subversion. Also, the most recent 
webware-checkins messages I have in my mailbox for CVS are for you and me on 
Feb 25th. Everything after that looks like Subversion.

The archives seem to confirm it:
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=3506

Can you forward the message you have, including headers, so I can take a look?


> - Finally, I would like to see easily accessible on the Webware web
> page some basic information on how to use Subversion, both
> anonymously and as a developer, along the lines of the SourceForge
> CVS instructions here: .

I second that.


-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] release once more, with feeling...

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:36:03 -0800, Mark Phillips wrote:
> No worries, Chuck, I won't touch it until Monday night. Just drop
> me a note if you need to give it a nudge beyond that.

I'm done nudging. Fire away.

If I have non-release changes to checkin, I'll branch off and leave trunk/ 
alone until the release is cut.

Thanks, Mark,
-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] release once more, with feeling...

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:36:03 -0800, Mark Phillips wrote:
> On Mar 10, 2005, at 4:21 PM, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:15:31 -0800, Mark Phillips wrote:
>>
>>> OK, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is the svn repository
>>> ready  for a willing wiseacre to take a shot at building a new
>>> release?
>>>
>>
>> Uh... I have a few minor mods in my old cvs workspace that I want
>> to get in. Can you wait until Saturday? I can probably get them
>> in on Friday.
>>
>
> Are you kidding? After the many weeks I have made everyone wait?
>
> No worries, Chuck, I won't touch it until Monday night. Just drop
> me a note if you need to give it a nudge beyond that.

I have my code mods checked in. Hopefully, I'll feel inspired on Saturday to go 
over the docs. I expect that by Sunday night I'll be confident that I didn't 
break anything and the repository will be ready for release work on Monday.

It would be nice if people updated their workspace and flexed their apps for a 
few minutes. None of my mods should have broken anything.

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] release once more, with feeling...

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 15:15:31 -0800, Mark Phillips wrote:
> OK, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, is the svn repository ready
> for a willing wiseacre to take a shot at building a new release?

Uh... I have a few minor mods in my old cvs workspace that I want to get in. 
Can you wait until Saturday? I can probably get them in on Friday.

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] SVN Access / Recap

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:54:16 -0800, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:14:39 -0500, Eric Radman wrote:
>
>> Just to recap:
>>
>> The Subversion repository can be viewed online with your web  
>> browser:
>>
>> http://svn.w4py.org/
>>
> Does this mean that you're done and we can start checking in
> changes, or is there another reload planned (for something like the
> repository history)?

Also, I'm getting a lot more diffs that I expected between Webware CVS HEAD and 
Subversion trunk. Do you know what date you took the CVS snapshot from?

Thanks,
-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] Release Status / Filters

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 14:24:59 -0500, Dan Milstein wrote:
> How goes getting out the next release?
>
> I ask primarily becuase I've recently developed a filter system for
> Webware (adapted from Java Servlets filters) which I am currently
> maintaining as a series of patches against the 0.8.1 release.  If
> people are interested in that, I'd be happy to write up some docs
> and contribute those patches. But... the patches would be pretty
> dramatically different for cvs HEAD.
>
> So I'm wondering where things are.
>
> Thanks,
> -Dan Milstein

Hi Dan,

Just out of curiosity, what do you use filters for?

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] SVN Access / Recap

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 15:14:39 -0500, Eric Radman wrote:
> Just to recap:
>
> The Subversion repository can be viewed online with your web
> browser:
>
> http://svn.w4py.org/

Does this mean that you're done and we can start checking in changes, or is 
there another reload planned (for something like the repository history)?

-Chuck



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[Webware-devel] Subversion

[Chuck Esterbrook]

It sounds like we're ready to go.

Does anyone want to volunteer to pull the trigger? Preferably, someone who has 
already used the cvs2svn (sp?) utility.

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] Release Status / Filters

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:52:21 -0800, Mark Phillips wrote:
> What do you all think?

Using CVS today was so unbelievably slow that I'm thinking we should move to 
Subversion before we do anything.

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] cvs really slow?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 13:38:32 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
>> I don't have a preference for where it's hosted as long as it
>> works. If we used w4py's server, who would maintain it? In other
>> words, who would be the svn admin?
>
> "We" would, for some value of "we".  I've got it set up now on
> http://svn.w4py.org, so a fair amount of the management is just
> Apache management (e.g., user accounts).  Hopefully it won't
> require much maintenance; generally I've had good luck as long as I
> don't try to point two services at the same repository (e.g., Trac
> or ViewCVS and Apache), though even that seems to work better than
> it used to (especially if they all run as the same user).
>
> We have root on that machine; I'm not sure who all is active (for
> some value of "active") in maintenance... right now Jason, myself,
> and Chuck have sudo access to root, and Eric has access to the
> Webware user.  We can also expand that easily enough.
>
>> Also, would non-developers still get anon access?
>>
> Yes, it's set up that way by default.  You can also use standard
> Apache access rules to give access just to subtrees.

Okay. I have some minor experience with svn admin although I did the straight 
svn server instead of Apache.

Do any of the other developers object to us moving to Subversion? How long do 
people need to get their outstanding changes in?

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] cvs really slow?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:20:15 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
> Geoffrey Talvola wrote:
>> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
>>
>>> A "cvs update" is taking several minutes (and still running).
>>> Anyone else having this problem?
>>
>> I've had that problem often, I would say just about every time
>> I've used SourceForge CVS in the last month or two.
>
> SF CVS kind of sucks.  Well, "kind of" is a bit of an
> understatement. There remains the option of moving to w4py's svn
> server, or ask python-hosting.com to host a subversion repository
> (they'd might be able to maintain it a bit better than we could,
> and they advertise free svn and Trac hosting to Python projects).

Okay, it's definitely time to move. Besides the past couple of months, SF has 
had CVS problems at other times as well.

I have a preference for svn over cvs, but could live with cvs if developers 
demand it. Although it sounds like Ian prefers svn, so that makes 2 of us.

I don't have a preference for where it's hosted as long as it works. If we used 
w4py's server, who would maintain it? In other words, who would be the svn 
admin?

Also, would non-developers still get anon access?

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] threadframe: wedged thread debugging

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 12:23:37 -0600, Ian Bicking wrote:
> This library gives debugging information on wedged threads:
>
> http://www.majid.info/mylos/stories/2004/06/10/threadframe.html
>
> This of course could be very useful for us, or at least very useful
> to suggest to people who have these problems (which are hard for us
> to help them with).

Thanks for the tip.

Btw I restart my app server each night via cron, unless it's a really simple 
application. This saves me the time of diagnosing any bugs that only show up 
after 24 hours of usage. I'd rather use that time for new features.

-Chuck



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[Webware-devel] cvs really slow?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

A "cvs update" is taking several minutes (and still running). Anyone else 
having this problem?

-Chuck



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[Webware-devel] MiddleKit update

[Chuck Esterbrook]

*** MiddleKit in CVS HEAD is now stable for all three databases: MySQL, MS SQL 
Server and PostgreSQL.

Thanks to Jason H. for providing me with a Linux/Postgresql account so I could 
test for that database.


*** I've been using the 'AccessorStyle': 'properties' setting some more and it 
seems to be working good. Now I can say things like:
user.numSignIns += 1
instead of:
user.setNumSignIns(user.numSignIns()+1)


-Chuck



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[Webware-devel] MiddleKit update: MS SQL Server support fixed

[Chuck Esterbrook]

...other than the test for deletes which was already broken prior to my recent 
changes. I'll revisit it after I try out Postgres (hopefully sometime this 
week).

-Chuck



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[Webware-devel] MiddleKit enhancements

[Chuck Esterbrook]

The following enhancements are now in CVS. All tests pass for MySQL on Windows 
and Linux. Postgres and MS SQL are broken, but will be fixed soon.

First, the bottom line:

1) When starting new projects with MiddleKit, I suggest these two settings in 
your model:
'AccessorStyle': 'properties',
'UseHashForClassIds': True,

2) If you run the test suite, add a line to retrieve the version of your 
database in your LocalConfig.py:
sqlVersionCommand = 'mysql --version'
Set to None if there is nothing available.

3) If you were using strings for date/datetime/time, you will now have to use 
Python's datetime module or egenix's mx.DateTime.


Second, the details and other minor enhancements:


*** The default for the UsePickledClassesCache setting is now false. It 
occasionally created problems for multiple developers.


*** I added an AccessorStyle setting which can be 'methods' or 'properties'. 
The default is the familiar 'methods'. If you set it to 'properties' then you 
would write code like this:

if email.isVerified:
pass
user.name = 'Chuck'

instead of the usual:

if email.isVerified():
pass
user.setName('Chuck')

I've tested it just a bit and it seems to be working fine.


*** I had to change MiddleObject to inherit from "object" in order to support 
properties. So it's a "new style" Python class now. I don't think this will 
hurt anything, but if you have problems, let me know.


*** I added a UseHashForClassIds setting which defaults to False. When False, 
class ids are 1, 2, 3, ... as usual. When True, class ids are hashes of their 
respective class names (think fat integers like 190295020) which has 
advantages. Basically, class ids will likely stay the same even as you change 
your MiddleKit model. For example, class ids across different sandboxes of your 
application (development, test and production) will match up even as you add 
and remove classes. On the other hand, renaming a class changes its id.


*** The latest MySQLdb module release is 1.2. It's "last insert id" API was 
tweaked, and it now returns instances from Python's datetime module instead of 
mx.DateTime. I made fixes for both changes. Regarding datetimes, MiddleKit's 
generated code will gladly accept whatever flavors (builtin and/or mx) that 
your system has at the time of generation. In other words, it's not picky.

However, I *did* remove support of using strings for date, time and datetime.


*** I added a print-out of system information at the end of running a test 
suite so we can more easily compare results. Example:

RESULTS
---
 succeeded MKBasic.mkmodel
 succeeded MKNone.mkmodel

SYSTEM INFO
---
sys.version = 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
sys.platform = win32
os.name = nt
sys.getwindowsversion = (5, 1, 2600, 2, 'Service Pack 1')
os.getcwd() = C:\All\echuck\Projects\WebwareHEAD\MiddleKit\Tests
dbName = MySQL
 mysql --version
mysql  Ver 12.22 Distrib 4.0.20a, for Win95/Win98 (i32)
modules with versions:
MySQLdb, (1, 0, 0, 'final', 1), 
C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.pyc
_mysql, (1, 0, 0, 'final', 1), C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\_mysql.pyd


-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] MiddleKit updates

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005 05:20:42 -0500, Winston Wolff wrote:
> Can a few more people run the MiddleKit tests on their machines?  I
> want to see if the failures I am getting are from my version of
> MySQL or from MiddleKit.
>
> -ww

I've completed a whole bunch of improvements to MiddleKit which I'll detail in 
another email. The MiddleKit test suite passes for me on Windows using a 
slightly older MySQLdb module and MySQL database, and also on Linux using the 
latest releases of each.

Someone reported that MiddleKit's Postgres support is broken. I'll have access 
to Postgres soon and fix. I'd bet money that MS SQL is broken and I'll fix that 
on Sunday Feb 20.

I also enhanced MiddleKit's Test.py to output information about the system it 
was run on to make it easier for us to compare. Here's the tail of my two runs:

SYSTEM INFO
---
sys.version = 2.3.4 (#53, May 25 2004, 21:17:02) [MSC v.1200 32 bit (Intel)]
sys.platform = win32
os.name = nt
sys.getwindowsversion() = (5, 1, 2600, 2, 'Service Pack 1')
os.getcwd() = C:\All\echuck\Projects\WebwareHEAD\MiddleKit\Tests
dbName = MySQL
 mysql --version
mysql  Ver 12.22 Distrib 4.0.20a, for Win95/Win98 (i32)
modules with versions:
MySQLdb, (1, 0, 0, 'final', 1), 
C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.pyc
_mysql, (1, 0, 0, 'final', 1), C:\Python23\lib\site-packages\_mysql.pyd

RESULTS
---
 succeeded MKBasic.mkmodel
 succeeded MKNone.mkmodel
 succeeded MKString.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDateTime.mkmodel
 succeeded MKEnums.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDefaultMinMax.mkmodel
 succeeded MKTypeValueChecking.mkmodel
 succeeded MKInheritance.mkmodel
 succeeded MKInheritanceAbstract.mkmodel
 succeeded MKList.mkmodel
 succeeded MKObjRef.mkmodel
 succeeded MKObjRefReuse.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDelete.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDeleteMark.mkmodel
 succeeded MKMultipleStores.mkmodel
 succeeded MKMultipleThreads.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh1.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh2.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh3.mkmodel
 succeeded MKExcel.mkmodel



SYSTEM INFO
---
sys.version = 2.3.4 (#1, Jan 13 2005, 19:39:32)
[GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-5)]
sys.platform = linux2
os.name = posix
os.getcwd() = /home/echuck/WebwareHEAD/MiddleKit/Tests
dbName = MySQL
 mysql --version
mysql  Ver 14.7 Distrib 4.1.10, for pc-linux-gnu (i686)
modules with versions:
MySQLdb, (1, 2, 0, 'final', 1), 
/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/MySQLdb/__init__.pyc
_mysql, (1, 2, 0, 'final', 1), 
/usr/local/lib/python2.3/site-packages/_mysql.so

RESULTS
---
 succeeded MKBasic.mkmodel
 succeeded MKNone.mkmodel
 succeeded MKString.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDateTime.mkmodel
 succeeded MKEnums.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDefaultMinMax.mkmodel
 succeeded MKTypeValueChecking.mkmodel
 succeeded MKInheritance.mkmodel
 succeeded MKInheritanceAbstract.mkmodel
 succeeded MKList.mkmodel
 succeeded MKObjRef.mkmodel
 succeeded MKObjRefReuse.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDelete.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDeleteMark.mkmodel
 succeeded MKMultipleStores.mkmodel
 succeeded MKMultipleThreads.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh1.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh2.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh3.mkmodel
   skipped MKExcel.mkmodel



-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] MiddleKit updates

[Chuck Esterbrook]

That's odd. I use MySQL as well and don't have this problem.

I have version 4.0.20a-win. I'm on Win XP for development (Linux in production, 
although I haven't run the tests there recently).

What version of MySQL do you have?

I agree it looks like a mysql bug, like it's caching the data. What if you quit 
the client after you recreate the database and then come back and do a select?

*** Can anyone else run the MiddleKit test suite and report back?

-Chuck


On Sun, 6 Feb 2005 18:30:47 -0500, Winston Wolff wrote:
> Hello Chuck-
>
> I'm getting errors.  Below is the output from the MKBasic test, as
> well as my LocalConfig.py.
>
> All the tests complain about this:  ERROR 1062 (23000) at line 25:
> Duplicate entry '1' for key 1.  I think the problem is actually a
> bug in MySQL.  If you delete a database, and then recreate the
> database and recreate the tables, then the old data that was in
> that table is "magically" back there.  In other words:
>
> mysql> use MKBasic
> mysql> select * from _MKClassIds;
> mysql> drop database if exists MKBasic;
> mysql> create database MKBasic;
> mysql> use MKBasic;
> mysql> show tables;
> Empty set (0.00 sec)
>
> At this point we have dropped and recreated the database.  As soon
> as we recreate the table, the old data magically reappears:
>
> mysql> create table _MKClassIds (
> -> id int not null primary key,
> -> name varchar(100)
> -> );
> Query OK, 0 rows affected (0.00 sec)
> mysql> select * from _MKClassIds;
> +++
> | id | name   |
> +++
> |  1 | Thing  |
> |  2 | Person |
> +++
> 2 rows in set (0.00 sec)



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[Webware-devel] MiddleKit updates

[Chuck Esterbrook]

As you'll see on the checkins list, I made some fixes to MiddleKit. The test 
suite now passes in full for MySQL even with more recent versions of MySQLdb 
(which started breaking MiddleKit with MySQLdb 0.9.2).

Two notes:

* Someone should run the test suite on the latest code with Postgres.

* One of the bugs I fixed was a new one. If you modify MiddleKit, please run 
the test suite for some db (MySQL, Postgres or MSSQL) before checking in 
changes. There's a ReadMe.text in MiddleKit/Tests with all the instructions you 
need. You should see this at the end of a good test run:


RESULTS
---
 succeeded MKBasic.mkmodel
 succeeded MKNone.mkmodel
 succeeded MKString.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDateTime.mkmodel
 succeeded MKEnums.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDefaultMinMax.mkmodel
 succeeded MKTypeValueChecking.mkmodel
 succeeded MKInheritance.mkmodel
 succeeded MKInheritanceAbstract.mkmodel
 succeeded MKList.mkmodel
 succeeded MKObjRef.mkmodel
 succeeded MKObjRefReuse.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDelete.mkmodel
 succeeded MKDeleteMark.mkmodel
 succeeded MKMultipleStores.mkmodel
 succeeded MKMultipleThreads.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh1.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh2.mkmodel
 succeeded MKModelInh3.mkmodel
 succeeded MKExcel.mkmodel


Thanks,
-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] UserKit has 10 failures?

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 11:17:50 -0600, Jason Hildebrand wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-12-13 at 20:23 -0500, Winston Wolff wrote:
>
>> Are other people getting failures if they run this?  I get 10
>> failures out of 23 tests.
>>
>
>> cd Webware/UserKit/Tests/
>> python Test.py
>>
>
> I get 29 failures out of 61 tests.  I don't know why it's trying to
> run more tests than it does for you.  In case you don't know this,
> though, UserKit is in an incomplete state and hasn't really been
> worked on in two years.  It's possible that these tests have
> _NEVER_ passed.

UserKit was built and working (but only in combination with MiddleKit for its 
backing storage). Originally, ALL tests passed.


> In the documentation, UserKit is clearly marked as pre-alpha, so
> this should be clear to users.  As it seems unlikely (after two
> years) that Chuck or anyone else will ever continue work on
> UserKit, I think we should actually consider removing UserKit --
> this decision may not take place any time soon, though.

I developed and used UserKit at a client of mine that I no longer work for. I 
will forward this message to their current developer and see if he's interested 
in looking at this.


-Chuck



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[Webware-devel] Re: you're missing nevow and stan

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Hi Moof,

I'm unable to maintain that page anymore. I've CCed the webware-devel list in 
case someone there can help.

Best regards,
-Chuck


On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 16:09:44 +0100, Moof wrote:
> Hi Chuck
>
>
> Just looked at your python based templating languages page. You're
> missing nevow and stan.
>
> nevow is the "son of" woven, the Twisted templating language which
> is currently deprecated. It has a philosophy similar to ZPT in
> construction, and feels partly derived from ZPT. I'd say it's
> currently in alpha, not structured as a webware component, written
> in Python, has an iffy users guide, the docstrings are in progress,
> I believe it has a regression suite, and it has some examples. Can
> be found at nevow.org
>
> stan is bundled with nevow, and is basically a templating sytem to
> allow html/xml to be writtne indies python code. It looks a bit
> like this:
>
>
> docFactory = loaders.stan(
> tags.html[
> tags.head[ tags.title[ "Greetings!" ]],
> tags.body[
> tags.h1(style="font-size: large")[ "Now I will greet you:" ], greet
> ] ])
>
> Also to be found at nevow.org.
>
>
> HTH,
> Moof





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Re: [Webware-devel] WSGI WebKit Sessions

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:21:38 -0500, Eric Radman wrote:
> I've been working on porting several apps over to the WSGI
> framework, and found minor differences in session handling that
> require code correction:
>
> The current WSGI implementation returns None for uninitialized
> Session variables, whereas WebKit would dump without a try...except
> pair.
>
> Using Webware/WebKit:
>
>
> session = self.session()
> try:
> id = session['userid']
> except:
> id = None
> if id is None:
> """ Error """
> else
> """ Generate Page """
>
>
> Using WSGIKit:
>
>
> session = self.session()
> id = session._values['userid']
> if id is None:
> """ Error """
> else
> """ Generate Page """
>
>
> This is fine, but session[] always returns None, so I have to use
> _values[]. Is this a bug or intended behavior?

Intended. In cases where Webware objects provide dictionary-like access 
(foo['bar']), they act like Python dictionaries: a KeyError is raised if the 
key does not exist. And typically a get() or getFoo() method is provided which 
can accept a default value to return if the key does not exist.

I don't see the point in making something look like a Python dictionary, but 
act differently.

-Chuck




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Re: [Webware-devel] Patches for MiddleKit / PostgreSQL

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:47:34 -0500, Jason Hildebrand wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-09-04 at 13:15, Winston WOLFF wrote:
>> I have some patches for the PostgreSQL support in MiddleKit. I
>> don't
>> know what the testing procedure is around here, so I am hesitant
>> to check them in actuallly.
>>
>
> Hi Winston,
>
>
> Thanks for the patches!  Generally it's best to post the patches on
> the SourceForge project page, to make sure they don't get lost.
> Also, please use the unified diff ("diff -u" or "cvs diff -u") when
> generating patches; they're easier to read and apply more easily.
>
> I've applied these patches and committed them to CVS.
>
>
>> Also for the last patch in SQLGenerator.py
>> will break support for MySQL and MSSQL, but I don't know enough
>> about adding in logic to differentiate it.
>>
>
> I split out the "Connect to database" command into a new method
> called writeConnectToDatabase in SQLGenerator.py, so that it can be
> overridden in PostgreSQLSQLGenerator.py.  This solves the problem
> for Postgres without changing behaviour for the other databases.
> It takes a bit to understand the use of mixins in MiddleKit so that
> you know where and how to override things -- it's unfortunately not
> immediately obvious how to get stuff done.
>
> I also made a few other PostgreSQL fixes to make the tests pass for
> MKString and MKDateTime, and now the test suite produces:
>
> succeeded MKBasic.mkmodel
> succeeded MKNone.mkmodel
> succeeded MKString.mkmodel
> succeeded MKDateTime.mkmodel
> *** FAILED *** MKEnums.mkmodel

Like Postgres, MS SQL Server has no concept of enums--so I added explicit support for 
them. My point is that you might be able to pull such support from MK's MS SQL Server 
code to use in MK's Postrges code.

-Chuck




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Re: [Webware-devel] MiddleKit updates

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:59:41 -0600, Jason Hildebrand wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-03-04 at 15:52, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
>
>> Good to hear from you. I've checked in that file now, thanks for
>> reporting it.
>>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>> Also, I've been testing MiddleKit with MySQL and Microsoft SQL
>> Server. Anyone here want to take Postgres for a spin? I'm sure
>> it's slightly broken after my changes, but I don't have it set up.
>>
>
> The last couple of Webware/MiddleKit apps I've written are database-
> neutral (either MySQL or PostgreSQL), so I can quite easily do some
> PostgreSQL testing.  I have some Postgres-related fixes which I've
> been meaning to check in, too, so I can do that at the same time.

You might have thought of this already, but Postgres columns for enums (which are 
varchar) could use a constraint to limit their possible values to the enum set.

Also, MiddleKit/Tests/ReadMe.text could use an example configuration for Postrges.


-Chuck




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Re: [Webware-devel] MiddleKit updates

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Hi Jason,

Good to hear from you. I've checked in that file now, thanks for reporting it.

Btw, nice job on the MixIn enhancement.

Also, I've been testing MiddleKit with MySQL and Microsoft SQL Server. Anyone here 
want to take Postgres for a spin? I'm sure it's slightly broken after my changes, but 
I don't have it set up.

-Chuck
--
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RE: [Webware-devel] MiddleKit & MySQLdb 0.9.2 problem

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Sun, 9 Nov 2003 01:56:40 -0800, Ben Parker wrote:
> FWIW, if you close the connection before reassigning the variable
> to a new connection, your test script succeeds on my system (RedHat
> 7.3, MySQLdb 0.9.2, mysql 4.0.13-standard, python 2.2.3). Just add
> "conn.close()" at the end of the body of the for loop.
>
> It seems like the __del__ method isn't being called when the conn
> variable is reassigned to the new connection. It could be that
> MySQLdb keeps an internal reference to the connection so the
> reference count does drop to 0 when the conn variable is
   ^ not
> reassigned. I have not reviewed the MySQLdb code so that's only a
> guess.
>
> We have had a bunch of issues with memory leaks due to unclosed db
> connections using MySQLdb 0.9.2. It's now strict policy in code
> reviews to make sure all db connections and cursors are explicitly
> closed using .close().

In my real application, the method that creates the connection lives in a library and 
returns the connection so that it can be optionally reused. So I don't know if there 
is a straightforward fix in my situation. For now, I'm using 0.9.1.


-Chuck
--
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Re: [Webware-devel] MiddleKit & MySQLdb 0.9.2 problem

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Alright, here we go. The attached program exhibits the problem for me on MySQLdb 
0.9.2, but not 0.9.1. Admittedly, other variables changed too.

Can a couple more people try it and report their results? A Linux build of 0.9.3 beta 
would be especially interesting.

Once I collect a few more data points, then I'll send this on to Andy Dustman and see 
what he says...

-Chuck
--
http://ChuckEsterbrook.com/
"""
This program will do this 1,000 times:
select * from TABLE limit 1
--making a new connection each time.

Generally this succeeds in MySQLdb 0.9.1 and earlier,
and fails in 0.9.2--regardless of anything else.

To run:
Edit the config class below with your db info.
Then run.

Success:

Python 2.1.1
MySQLdb 0.9.1
MySQL 3.23.41
Mandrake ?7.x?
Chuck Esterbrook on 2003-07-11

Python 2.1.2
MySQLdb 0.9.1
MySQL 3.23.36
RedHat ?7.x?
Chuck Esterbrook on 2003-07-11

Failures:

Python 2.3.2
MySQLdb 0.9.2
MySQL 3.23.41
Windows XP Pro SP1
Chuck Esterbrook on 2003-07-11
100
101
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "\\192.168.1.50\echuck\mysql-prob.py", line 57, in ?
fetch()
  File "\\192.168.1.50\echuck\mysql-prob.py", line 44, in fetch
passwd=config.password)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\__init__.py", line 63, in Connect
return apply(Connection, args, kwargs)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 115, in __init__
self._make_connection(args, kwargs2)
  File "C:\Python23\Lib\site-packages\MySQLdb\connections.py", line 41, in 
_make_connection
apply(super(ConnectionBase, self).__init__, args, kwargs)
_mysql_exceptions.OperationalError: (1040, 'Too many connections')
"""

import MySQLdb


class config:
db   = ''
user = ''
password = ''
table= ''
repeatPerTable = 1000

def fetch():
for i in range(config.repeatPerTable):
print i
conn = MySQLdb.connect(db=config.db, user=config.user,
passwd=config.password)
cur = conn.cursor()
cur.execute('select * from %s limit 1' % config.table)
results = cur.fetchall()

# The following are feeble attempts to fix the problems
# experienced with MySQLdb 0.9.2. They didn't help.
#import gc, time
#gc.collect()
#time.sleep(0.1)  # give some time for sockets to close?
print 'success!'


if __name__=='__main__':
fetch()

Re: [Webware-devel] MiddleKit & MySQLdb 0.9.2 problem

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Fri, 7 Nov 2003 19:53:00 -0500 (EST), Tripp Lilley wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Nov 2003, Tripp Lilley wrote:
>
>> My gut feeling is that this is a connection garbage collection
>> issue *within* MySQLdb, and that it's not actually freeing up
>> connections when it's supposed to (or not freeing up statement
>> handles, or something like that).
>>
> Looking at diffs between 0.9.1 and 0.9.2 just now, I'm even more
> inclined to go with this gut feeling, just given the quantity of
> "small" changes, as well as what appears to be a somewhat large-
> scale stylistic retooling of the MySQLdb internals. Naming
> conventions, internal data structures, etc., seem like they might
> have undergone some significant changes (but I'm just skimming, so
> I might be reading more into this than there is).
>
> In any case, it seems to me like writing a test case against
> MySQLdb that creates and then discards large numbers of connections
> would be a quick way to expose the behaviour for further study.
> Don't count on me to beat you to it this week, though :-)

Agreed on all points. Thanks for the input.

-Chuck
--
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RE: [Webware-devel] Servlet init / lifecycle

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On 28 Jul 2003 23:35:39 -0500, Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-07-28 at 22:54, Ian Bicking wrote:
>
>> Really, if caching will be generally implemented I think it still
>> belongs in servlet factories.  I think the right way to do that
>> would be to move some of what I've put in PythonServletFactory
>> into ServletFactory, and use a different method in subclasses
>> (something besides servletForTransaction).  Maybe something
>> similar to the new PythonServletFactory.loadClass, cleaned up a
>> little.
>>
> Alrighty, it's generalized a bit, and PSPServletFactory uses that
> caching as well.  Should make servlet factories much quicker to
> implement.

Thanks.

-Chuck
--
http://ChuckEsterbrook.com/




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RE: [Webware-devel] Servlet init / lifecycle

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Mon, 28 Jul 2003 15:34:04 -0400, Geoffrey Talvola wrote:
>> If caching wasn't done in the factory, I think it should be.  I
>> think  that just means we have to have a method to return the
>> servlet to the  factory, and then the factory can keep a pool of
>> servlets.
>>
> I agree -- the caching belongs in the factory, not in Application.

I believe I originally put it in the Application so that each servlet factory would 
not have to reinvent caching.

For example, I often add a servlet factory for HTML fragment files (.htmlf). Do I now 
I have to reimplement/copy the code for caching of servlets in this factory? Or can I 
inherit it from some MixIn util class?

I didn't make the change from the original approach so I'm not familiar with it. I 
still prefer caching to be implemented and enabled by default for all servlet 
factories.

Feedback?

-Chuck
--
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Re: [Webware-devel] Re: Nightly build broken

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Ian, Stuart,

Thanks for the explanation. So we should assert that any ports coming in 
from config files are between 0 and 65,535.

-Chuck


On Sunday 30 March 2003 07:13 pm, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> If you were using a port number of 8, it was probably broken for
> three years.  The TCP port number is a 16 bit value which limits you
> to 64K. For reference, see section 3.1 of rfc 793
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc793.html Source and Destination ports are
> 16 bits.
>
> The new code uses the sockaddr as returned by the sock.getsockname()
> to determine which handler to use.  The getsockname is returning a
> number which has already been truncated into the 16 bit value.
>
> The old code did no such thing, and only did a getsockname()
> comparison for the monitor port (which would have failed if the
> monitor port was > 64k).  If it wasn't the monitor port then it
> assumed it to be the app server.
>
> My guess is that for this to have worked, nobody was doing a range
> check on the port in the past, and it was just silently getting
> mapped into the 16 bit value.
>
> -Stuart -
>
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> >On Sunday 30 March 2003 05:37 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
> >>On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 18:48, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> >>>On a hunch, I changed the port from its original value of 8 to
> >>> and now it works. I then reversed the situation: I installed
> >>>fresh copies of Apache and WebwareCVS, got them working, then
> >>>pumped up the port # to 70001 and got this:
> >>>
> >>>KeyError: ('127.0.0.1', 4465)
> >>>
> >>>Looks like a classic case of 16bit vs 32bit. I thought those days
> >>>were over!  :)
> >>
> >>That's just the way it is, there's 65k ports, no more.  It should
> >>never work, though confusingly it seems to be just cutting off the
> >>high bits. I suppose there should be an assert somewhere to make
> >> sure you don't try anything too large.
> >>
> >>  Ian
> >
> >Port 8 worked for almost 3 years and stopped working under the
> > new ThreadedAppServer.py just ten days ago. That belies "there's
> > 65k ports, no more".
> >
> >I'm guessing that a library used by the new code is arbitrarily
> > chopping things off. It's not the end of the world, but it's
> > unfortunate that some libraries still "exist in a 16-bit world".



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Re: [Webware-devel] Re: Nightly build broken

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Sunday 30 March 2003 05:37 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Sun, 2003-03-30 at 18:48, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > On a hunch, I changed the port from its original value of 8 to
> >  and now it works. I then reversed the situation: I installed
> > fresh copies of Apache and WebwareCVS, got them working, then
> > pumped up the port # to 70001 and got this:
> >
> > KeyError: ('127.0.0.1', 4465)
> >
> > Looks like a classic case of 16bit vs 32bit. I thought those days
> > were over!  :)
>
> That's just the way it is, there's 65k ports, no more.  It should
> never work, though confusingly it seems to be just cutting off the
> high bits. I suppose there should be an assert somewhere to make sure
> you don't try anything too large.
>
>   Ian

Port 8 worked for almost 3 years and stopped working under the new 
ThreadedAppServer.py just ten days ago. That belies "there's 65k ports, 
no more".

I'm guessing that a library used by the new code is arbitrarily chopping 
things off. It's not the end of the world, but it's unfortunate that 
some libraries still "exist in a 16-bit world".

-- 
Chuck
http://ChuckEsterbrook.com



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[Webware-devel] Re: Nightly build broken

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Saturday 29 March 2003 06:51 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
[snip]
> > My webkit console log says:
> >
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "./WebKit/ThreadedAppServer.py", line 749, in run
> > server.mainloop()
> >   File "./WebKit/ThreadedAppServer.py", line 188, in mainloop
> > handler = self._handlerCache[serverAddress].pop()
> > KeyError: ('127.0.0.1', 14464)
> >
> >
> > I don't know why, but it's almost certainly caused by new code. Let
> > me know what you think.
>
> What's on port 14464?  Apparently it's getting a connection on that
> port, but hasn't set any handler up for it...

In a nutshell: We can't use large port numbers for the WebKit app server 
anymore.

The details:
I did a little more snooping and found out that the nightly build broke 
after the 19th which is significant because that's when 
ThreadedAppServer.py got revamped by NewTheadedAppServer:

Revision 1.64 / Wed Mar 19 11:37:28 2003 UTC (11 days, 12 hours ago) by 
ianbicking
Branch: MAIN
Changes since 1.63: +245 -339 lines
Diff to previous 1.63


On a hunch, I changed the port from its original value of 8 to  
and now it works. I then reversed the situation: I installed fresh 
copies of Apache and WebwareCVS, got them working, then pumped up the 
port # to 70001 and got this:

KeyError: ('127.0.0.1', 4465)

Looks like a classic case of 16bit vs 32bit. I thought those days were 
over!  :)

The python prompt says that "70001 & 0x" = 4465 which confirms my 
suspicion. Looking at the diffs, I can't really see where the 
limitation is coming from. We should either get rid of it, or catch bad 
port numbers in Python and report them as such.

Here are the diffs:
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/webware/Webware/WebKit/ThreadedAppServer.py.diff?r1=text&tr1=1.63&r2=text&tr2=1.64&diff_format=h

Any thoughts on what introduced this?


Another problem is that when I click on the Error example, I get this 
traceback:
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "./WebKit/ThreadedAppServer.py", line 359, in threadloop
handler.handleRequest()
  File "./WebKit/ThreadedAppServer.py", line 658, in handleRequest
transaction = self._server._app.dispatchRawRequest(dict, streamOut)
  File "./WebKit/Application.py", line 435, in dispatchRawRequest
self.handleExceptionInTransaction(sys.exc_info(), trans)
  File "./WebKit/Application.py", line 630, in 
handleExceptionInTransaction
self._exceptionHandler(self, transaction, excInfo,
AttributeError: Application instance has no attribute 
'_exceptionHandler'

I don't know for sure that this broke from the NewThreadedAppServer. I 
just noticed it.

-- 
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Re: [Webware-devel] Re: Production features and UserKit (was: PyPI)

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Monday 24 February 2003 12:07 am, Frank Barknecht wrote:
> I never tried the MK-storage in UserKit, so I cannot judge it. But in
> file storage there are simply a lot of not-yet-implemented features,
> some are essential like saving changed users.
> TODO-UserKit.text show a long list of items.
>
> I wasn't using Webware, when most of the work on UserKit was done or
> decided, but it seems, the current active developers use another kind
> of user management in their applications. And as UserKit is 'just
> there', it seems to hinder further work in this area.

On one of my projects, I *did* use UserKit, but with MiddleKit for 
storage which is why UserKit's file storage support is non-existant. 
Anyone wish to volunteer?

I also built user management into StockAlerts.com pre-UserKit, but it's 
completely intertwined with the application (which is generally 
private).

I disagree that UserKit hinders further development. It could be 
extended by *anyone*, or looked at for ideas prior to writing a 
"UserKit" from scratch or completely ignored. No one's hands are 
bound...

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Re: [Webware-devel] Survey Preview

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thursday 27 February 2003 11:24 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-02-28 at 00:42, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> > That's fine with me. Shall we call it "sandbox" and ask users to
> > make directories with their SF user name?
> >
> > And should this really be in Webware, or should we make another SF
> > project so we can loosen up the cvs-write requirements and let
> > everybody in?
>
> I like the idea of making it a separate project, because then we can
> really give access to anybody at all without any care.  I don't think
> it's too hard to ask that people stay in the sandbox module for a
> while, but we'd at least have to know who the person is and... I
> dunno.  We could give sandbox access to absolutely anyone who wanted
> it.
>
> webware-sandbox.sf.net ?

Great. I just submitted the SF project. Hopefully they won't balk at the 
idea.

I guess if they do, we'll just make a cvs repository on somebody's 
server. But let's go for SF first.

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Re: [Webware-devel] Survey Preview

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thursday 27 February 2003 10:34 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-02-27 at 22:54, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> > What about a loosely structured "contrib" directory in CVS?  The
> > down side to that would be it would be difficult to manage and
> > cleanup after a while.  Perhaps just a section on the Wiki?  What
> > other forums might work for such a thing?
>
> Well, docutils has a sandbox module for this purpose, with user
> directories under that.  Each person does whatever they want in their
> directory, so there's no particular effort at cleanliness.
>
> It's a place where you can put files and modules that you don't feel
> like packaging up, but still might be of use.  It's also a place to
> put stuff that's in development, or may not be directly related to
> Webware. But it's still easy to share.
>
>   Ian

That's fine with me. Shall we call it "sandbox" and ask users to make 
directories with their SF user name?

And should this really be in Webware, or should we make another SF 
project so we can loosen up the cvs-write requirements and let 
everybody in?

--
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Re: [Webware-devel] CodeHeap [was: Survey Preview]

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thursday 27 February 2003 09:50 pm, Edmund Lian wrote:
> On 02/28/2003 12:35:47 AM Chuck wrote:
> >My ideas for such a site:
> >
> >- Name: CodeHeap
> >- Purpose: Browse, search and download Python code that you _may_
> > just find useful.
> >- Functions:
> >  - Upload code, anonymous or not.
> >  - See recent uploads.
> >  - Search by name, author, date, filename, keywords, description,
> >*code contents*.
>
> Doesn't this sound like an extended Vaults of Parnassus?
>
> ...Edmund.

There is certainly crossover, but I think it depends on what kind of 
focus you took. Are you building a pristine catalog of Python 
resources, or a junkyard of Python parts? IMO those two would lead to 
different feature sets.

As one example, the pristine catalog should have the option to scrape 
your project info from SourceForge or FreshMeat. It should probably 
also email contributors every 6 months if they haven't updated their 
project records. The junkyard wouldn't do either of those. But it might 
provide the storage and downloads cuz when you throw your spare parts 
in the 'yard, you don't want any burdens afterwards (like maintaining 
your own site to vend the parts).

That's my view anyway. You could try to merge these two visions or even 
provide two different "areas" at one major site.

-- 
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[Webware-devel] CodeHeap [was: Survey Preview]

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Thursday 27 February 2003 08:54 pm, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> If there are several people out there with partial solutions that are
> not really polished for release, maybe we need a repository for such
> solutions.  Some place that was admittedly weak on documentation, but
> that people could post their solutions. They could certainly be
> educational for some people, and might spur someone else on to help
> add the requisite polish to make it ready for release?
>
> What about a loosely structured "contrib" directory in CVS?  The down
> side to that would be it would be difficult to manage and cleanup
> after a while.  Perhaps just a section on the Wiki?  What other
> forums might work for such a thing?
>
> -Stuart-

This is exactly what I was going to write back. So thanks! :-)

But let me add that I think a Webware-driven site could be written for 
this! This could fulfill the recent call for an interesting and useful 
app to be developed and maintained by the Webware community as a public 
example. *And* this site could be for the entire Python community, 
thereby giving Webware more exposure ("powered by Webware" on every 
footer).

My ideas for such a site:

- Name: CodeHeap
- Purpose: Browse, search and download Python code that you _may_ just 
find useful.
- Functions:
  - Upload code, anonymous or not.
  - See recent uploads.
  - Search by name, author, date, filename, keywords, description,
*code contents*.

Basically if you had some potentially reusable Python code that wasn't 
baked enough or that you didn't want to support, you could toss it in 
the CodeHeap.

This reminds me of "Useless Python" but on a grander scale and without 
the "Useless".   :-)

Example use: If I'm about to write some DAV code, I first search 
CodeHeap for "DAV" and get to look through several hits ranging from 
individual modules to entire packages. I can read the code right in my 
browser, syntax highlighted, even if the original package was a tar 
ball.


Regarding the survey, I don't disagree with Tripp et al, but I don't 
really want to collate all the responses I'd get for a question in this 
area. On the bright side, shaking this code out of the bushes can be a 
project/effort all its own.

-- 
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Re: [Webware-devel] Survey Preview

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Matt,

That's a good point, but my advice is to not wait for any surveys or 
other events to pull together particular efforts. If you have an 
interest, and especially the code to go with it, feel free to start 
something.

At any time, feel free to post to -discuss and say:
  "I've got the beginnings of FooKit. Anyone care to join me in
   turning this into a reusable, public product?"

You can use the lists and the wiki as you need to. The kit in question 
could be adopted into Webware (like TaskKit) or stand as a separate 
project (like Cheetah).

-- 
Chuck
http://ChuckEsterbrook.com


On Wednesday 26 February 2003 02:42 pm, Matt Feifarek wrote:
> Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> >Here is what I have come up with. I'm looking for feedback from you
> > guys (add/subtract/alter questions) before I post on -discuss.
>
> What about something like:
>
> I have my own librar(ies) to solve the following problems:
> - User Validation
> - Persistence
> - ORM
> - (etc.)
> - Webdav
>
> I'm willing to share this code?
>
> I get the sense that lots of us have "rolled our own" for common
> things; it would be nice to start scraping stuff together into new
> kits.
>
>
>
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Re: [Webware-devel] Survey Preview

[Chuck Esterbrook]

Survey addition:

---
If you would like to provide a testimonial for Webware that we can use 
on the web site, please write it here including how you want it signed 
(full name vs. initials, email address or not).
---

-Chuck


On Wednesday 26 February 2003 01:04 pm, Chuck Esterbrook wrote:
> PLEASE NOTE: DO NOT ANSWER THE INCLUDED SURVEY!
>
> With the PyCon Webware Sprint coming up and given that we've never
> done a survey, I think one is in order.
>
> Here is what I have come up with. I'm looking for feedback from you
> guys (add/subtract/alter questions) before I post on -discuss.
>
> So take a look and make suggestions if you have any.
>
> Also, if someone wants to whip up a Webware page to collect this
> info, or make use of some canned survey-web solution, speak up.
> Otherwise, I'll just use email and collate by hand.
>
> Thanks - Chuck
>
> ---
>
> What version(s) of Python do you use?
>
> What op sys's do you use?
>
> Put an X after the Webware packages that you directly use:
>   CGIWrapper
>   MiddleKit
>   MiscUtils
>   PSP
>   TaskKit
>   UserKit
>   WebKit
>   WebUtils
>
> What third party Webware-related/specific packages do you use?
> Examples: Cheetah, FunFormKit
>
> Do you use PostgreSQL?
>   If so, what version?
>   What DB API adapter and version do you use?
>   Do you use MiddleKit with Postgres?
>   If you have an MK/Postgres patch, please attach your latest version
>   if you're willing to donate it).
>
> Besides MySQL (which is already well supported) and PostgreSQL (which
> was just inquired about) are there other databases that you use?
> State version number and applicable Python modules.
>
> Are you going to PyCon? (http://www.python.org/pycon/)
>   If so, are you going to the PyCon Sprint?
>   (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebwareSprint)
>
> Put an X after the places that you use Webware:
>   workplace in permanent position
>   workplace as contractor
>   workplace as self/co-owned business (outside of contracting)
>   school as teacher
>   school as student
>   learning/hobby/tinkering
>   other: specify: 
>
> Everyone always wants better docs. What specific doc improvements
> would you like to see in Webware?
>
> What else would you like to see in future versions of Webware?
> (list in order of preference)
>
>
> Thanks for completing the survey!
>
> P.S. Don't forget to read and share at the Wiki:
>  http://webware.sf.net/wiki/
>
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>
>
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[Webware-devel] Survey Preview

[Chuck Esterbrook]

PLEASE NOTE: DO NOT ANSWER THE INCLUDED SURVEY!

With the PyCon Webware Sprint coming up and given that we've never done 
a survey, I think one is in order.

Here is what I have come up with. I'm looking for feedback from you guys 
(add/subtract/alter questions) before I post on -discuss.

So take a look and make suggestions if you have any.

Also, if someone wants to whip up a Webware page to collect this info, 
or make use of some canned survey-web solution, speak up. Otherwise, 
I'll just use email and collate by hand.

Thanks - Chuck

---

What version(s) of Python do you use?

What op sys's do you use?

Put an X after the Webware packages that you directly use:
CGIWrapper 
MiddleKit 
MiscUtils 
PSP 
TaskKit 
UserKit 
WebKit 
WebUtils 

What third party Webware-related/specific packages do you use?
Examples: Cheetah, FunFormKit

Do you use PostgreSQL?
  If so, what version?
  What DB API adapter and version do you use?
  Do you use MiddleKit with Postgres?
  If you have an MK/Postgres patch, please attach your latest version
  if you're willing to donate it).

Besides MySQL (which is already well supported) and PostgreSQL (which 
was just inquired about) are there other databases that you use? State 
version number and applicable Python modules.

Are you going to PyCon? (http://www.python.org/pycon/)
  If so, are you going to the PyCon Sprint?
  (http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/WebwareSprint)

Put an X after the places that you use Webware:
  workplace in permanent position
  workplace as contractor
  workplace as self/co-owned business (outside of contracting)
  school as teacher
  school as student
  learning/hobby/tinkering
  other: specify: 

Everyone always wants better docs. What specific doc improvements would 
you like to see in Webware?

What else would you like to see in future versions of Webware?
(list in order of preference)


Thanks for completing the survey!

P.S. Don't forget to read and share at the Wiki:
 http://webware.sf.net/wiki/

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Re: [Webware-devel] ZODB (Zope object database) on Mac Jaguar

[Chuck Esterbrook]

I use (and wrote much of) Webware's own MiddleKit. So my data lives in a 
traditional SQL database which gives me lots of speed, powerful 
queries, 3rd party tools, etc., but as a Python programmer everything 
is OO.

Much of MiddleKit is inspired by Apple's Enterprise Object Framework 
(EOF) so depending on your NeXT/OSX background it may have a familiar 
feel to you.

Here's a Wiki page:
http://webware.colorstudy.net/twiki/bin/view/Webware/?topic=MiddleKit

And there are docs in Webware. One additional tip: I recommend using cvs 
instead of the last release.

-Chuck


On Monday 16 December 2002 05:53 pm, Lee Phillips wrote:
> I'm interested in using the ZODB with Webware. I develop on Macs
> running OSX 10.2.x (Jaguar). I compiled a couple of stable versions
> of the ZODB on a Mac running OS X 10.2.1 with the python 2.2 included
> by Apple. They (Standalone 1.0 and ZODB3-3.1) compiled with numerous
> warnings, and running the test.py gave me a bus error for both. I
> found a mailinglist archive wherein someone said that reverting to
> python 2.1 worked for him, but I'm not interested in doing that. Can
> anyone suggest how to get this working, or suggest a different object
> persistence tool?
>
>
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Re: [Webware-devel] Accessing the app server instance from anywhere

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Monday 16 December 2002 04:38 pm, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> Couldn't this be done by AppServer.__init__()?
>
> Then require that all AppServer's must initialize the base class
> AppServer which they likely do anyway.

Er, good point.  :-)

I need more sugar...


> Is there any reason to have multiple AppServer's running?  Would it
> make sense that WebKit.globalServer be a function that returns the
> server? Then if for any reason we end up with a more complex server
> referencing system accesses would at least be going through a
> function which could be modified to do the right thing.

I can't imagine that there will ever be more than one AppServer in a 
single process. I'm willing to work off that assumption.

-Chuck



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Re: [Webware-devel] New vs Old naming

[Chuck Esterbrook]

That sounds reasonable to me. The challenge will to make sure we follow 
through when cutting releases.

-Chuck

On Friday 13 December 2002 06:26 pm, Stuart Donaldson wrote:
> I have noticed a couple of places where New and Old are used to
> identify improved and out-dated methodologies.
>
> NewThreadedAppServer, serverSideInfoForRequestNew and
> filenamesForBaseNameNew
>
> Is the plan to remove (at least the New*) names prior to the next
> release?  If not, I would encourage it.  Because if NewFunction
> starts getting used in production and needs to be supported, then at
> some point it fails to be New and you want to come up with another
> one.
>
> I think it would be a good idea to say that using New* (where New
> indicates a new/experimental methodology) should be "unsupported" in
> the sense that once the New approach has been adopted, the name will
> be changed back to the standard name.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> -Stuart-



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[Webware-devel] Accessing the app server instance from anywhere

[Chuck Esterbrook]

In WebKit applications, as far as I can tell, there is no way to 
arbitrarily access the single instance of the app server (or the 
application).

I don't often need this, but once in awhile it would come in handy.

My plan is to require that all app servers set AppServer.globalServer 
for this purpose. Then any Python code could do this:

from WebKit.AppServer import globalServer
print globalServer
print globalServer.application()



Any comments before I implement this?

-Chuck


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Re: [Webware-devel] PSP issue with mktemp()

[Chuck Esterbrook]

On Friday 06 December 2002 10:01 pm, Jay Love wrote:
[snip]
> Actually, I think the file is supposed to disappear when the process
> ends.  That's why its a temp file.  Check the docs, but if that's
> your main problem, I don't think changing the directory will help.

I never knew that. The Python docs don't say anything in that regard.


[snip]
> If you want to set it to Webware/temp or something that's fine by
> PSP.
>
> Does that help?

H, not really. I just want temp files to land in "the usual temp 
file place".

So far, I'm planning on going with my original suggestion, which is to 
make a version of mktemp() that allows the temp dir to be passed as an 
optional arg. Perhaps I'll also submit a patch to Python so this shows 
up in the std lib next time around.

-Chuck



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[Webware-devel] PSP issue with mktemp()

[Chuck Esterbrook]

The "tempdir" variable of the Python standard module "tempfile" gets set 
by PSP:

PSP/ServletWriter.py:43: 
tempfile.tempdir=os.path.dirname(self._pyfilename)

Consequently, when I use mktemp() in my own code, my temporary files 
land in .../Cache/PSP/ rather than something like ~/tmp or /tmp like I 
would expect. Furthermore, they seem to disappear on me, e.g., I get 
"IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory" at some point when 
trying to open them. I think that happens after I restart the app 
server, but it shouldn't happen at all.

Since tempfile.tempdir is shared by the entire process, I think PSP has 
to relinquish and avoid setting it. Unfortunately, I don't see an 
optional arg to mktemp() for passing this on invocations:
  http://python.org/doc/current/lib/module-tempfile.html


My suggestion is that we copy the mktemp() to MiscUtils.Funcs and add 
that argument:

tempfile.py:
import tempfile
def mktemp(suffix="", dir=None):
"""User-callable function to return a unique temporary file name."""
if not dir: dir = tempfile.gettempdir()
pre = tempfile.gettempprefix()
while 1:
i = tempfile._counter.get_next()
file = os.path.join(dir, pre + str(i) + suffix)
if not os.path.exists(file):
return file


Then in PSPServletWriter, this:
self._pyfilename = ctxt.getPythonFileName()
tempfile.tempdir=os.path.dirname(self._pyfilename)
self._temp = tempfile.mktemp('tmp')
becomes:
self._temp = mktemp('tmp', dir=os.path.dirname(self._pyfilename))


Any comments?

-Chuck


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[Webware-devel] mod_webkit2 problems

[Chuck Esterbrook]

I run make and then as root "make install". Those steps look fine. And I 
have the module:

# l /usr/local/apache2/modules/
total 100
-rw-r--r--1 root root 7995 Nov 27 23:51 httpd.exp
-rwxr-xr-x1 root root88416 Dec  5 18:28 mod_webkit.so*

Then when I add to httpd.conf:
LoadModule mod_webkit modules/mod_webkit.so

I get:
# bin/apachectl restart
Syntax error on line 231 of /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf:
Can't locate API module structure `mod_webkit' in file 
/usr/local/apache2/modules/mod_webkit.so: 
/usr/local/apache2/lib/libapr-0.so.0: undefined symbol: mod_webkit

I'm using:
  Webware cvs
  Python 2.2.2
  httpd-2.0.43
  gcc 3.2
  Mandrake Linux 9.0

Any ideas?

-Chuck


P.S. Here's the output of a "make install" after a "make clean". Looks 
normal to me.

# make install
/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs -c mod_webkit.c
/usr/local/apache2/build/libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc   
-DAP_HAVE_DESIGNATED_INITIALIZER -DLINUX=2 -D_REENTRANT 
-D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_BSD_SOURCE -D_SVID_SOURCE -D_GNU_SOURCE -g -O2 
-pthread -I/usr/local/apache2/include  -c -o mod_webkit.lo mod_webkit.c 
&& touch mod_webkit.slo
/usr/local/apache2/build/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -o 
mod_webkit.la  -rpath /usr/local/apache2/modules -module -avoid-version  
mod_webkit.lo
/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs -c marshal.c
/usr/local/apache2/build/libtool --silent --mode=compile gcc   
-DAP_HAVE_DESIGNATED_INITIALIZER -DLINUX=2 -D_REENTRANT 
-D_XOPEN_SOURCE=500 -D_BSD_SOURCE -D_SVID_SOURCE -D_GNU_SOURCE -g -O2 
-pthread -I/usr/local/apache2/include  -c -o marshal.lo marshal.c && 
touch marshal.slo
/usr/local/apache2/build/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -o marshal.la  
-rpath /usr/local/apache2/modules -module -avoid-version  marshal.lo
/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs -o mod_webkit.la -c mod_webkit.lo marshal.lo
/usr/local/apache2/build/libtool --silent --mode=link gcc -o 
mod_webkit.la  -rpath /usr/local/apache2/modules -module -avoid-version  
mod_webkit.lo marshal.lo
/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs -i -n mod_webkit.so -e mod_webkit.la
/usr/local/apache2/build/instdso.sh 
SH_LIBTOOL='/usr/local/apache2/build/libtool' mod_webkit.la 
/usr/local/apache2/modules
/usr/local/apache2/build/libtool --mode=install cp mod_webkit.la 
/usr/local/apache2/modules/
cp .libs/mod_webkit.so /usr/local/apache2/modules/mod_webkit.so
cp .libs/mod_webkit.lai /usr/local/apache2/modules/mod_webkit.la
PATH="$PATH:/sbin" ldconfig -n /usr/local/apache2/modules
--
Libraries have been installed in:
   /usr/local/apache2/modules

If you ever happen to want to link against installed libraries
in a given directory, LIBDIR, you must either use libtool, and
specify the full pathname of the library, or use `-LLIBDIR'
flag during linking and do at least one of the following:
   - add LIBDIR to the `LD_LIBRARY_PATH' environment variable
 during execution
   - add LIBDIR to the `LD_RUN_PATH' environment variable
 during linking
   - use the `-Wl,--rpath -Wl,LIBDIR' linker flag
   - have your system administrator add LIBDIR to `/etc/ld.so.conf'

See any operating system documentation about shared libraries for
more information, such as the ld(1) and ld.so(8) manual pages.
--
chmod 755 /usr/local/apache2/modules/mod_webkit.so



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[Webware-devel] Re: [Webware-discuss] CVS update: Settings via command-line

[Chuck Esterbrook]

This broke UnknownFileServlet which is used by default for all *.css, 
*.gif, etc. The fix was to add this:

def configFilename(self):
return self._application.configFilename()

-Chuck


On Thursday 14 November 2002 05:47 pm, Ian Bicking wrote:
> There's an update in CVS to add/override settings via the command
> line. For instance:
>
>   ./AppServer --AppServer.AutoReload=1
>
> i.e., --(basename-of-config-file).(setting-name)=value
>
> "value" is converted to a number if possible; a list, tuple,
> dictionary, or string depending on the first character of value (and
> eval'ed); or just left as a string.
>
>   Ian
>
>
>
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