Re: [whatwg] Proposal for HTML5: Motion sensing input device (Kinect, SoftKinetic, Asus Xtion)
Thank you for your answer Tab Atkins. Indeed, as you say, I see this as a proposal for the future. getUserMedia is perfect for these features, as you indicate. I will be alert to any news that occurs on this subject, for if I can contribute something. I think other proposals that may help improve the websites. A greeting and thanks. 2012/6/25 Tab Atkins Jr. > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Jesús Ruiz García > wrote: > > I start indicating that this message can be considered useless. I > apologize > > for this. > > > > A few weeks ago I was in the chat #WHATWG, and asked how to send an email > > to the list on a proposal to HTML5 (JavaScript). > > I've taken a few days before sending this email, because I have been > > investigating whether there was a similar project in production, and I've > > seen one. > > > > My proposal for HTML5 is to make it functional with Kinect, SoftKinetic, > > Asus Xtion, and similar devices to interact with the web. > > Logically, Kinect is the device most commonly used, would be ideal for > this > > proposal. > > > > Kinect patent must be owned by Microsoft. I am informed that in HTML5, > > there have been discussions on these issues of patents, so this aspect > > could possibly be some kind of problem. > > From my point of view, it would sell more devices of this type. Surely > even > > in future be replaced by webcams these devices more powerful and included > > as standard on all computers. > > > > Also, users would have an advance on the web. Because really, I mean just > > to give you support to make gestures to browse the web, but for more > useful > > things. > > I have some functions to the web, and see that are not being developed: > > > > *- Online shopping or Online retailing:* Want to buy clothes, but do not > > know what size you are using actually. Online stores may have an option > to > > run Kinect and scan your body to tell you the correct size for you, for > > that article.We could even see if that shirt looks good on you or not. > > > > *- Webs makeup/hair salon:* With face recognition, could learn/test > > different makeup on the market. Obviously these products would be tested > > virtually, and then could be purchased. > > > > *- Webs fitness/rehabilitation:* While this can be considered as a > > videogame, I see it more as an application. It would check if the person > is > > performing well exercise, getting not cause any injury. Rhythm of > physical > > exercise, and progress in their mobility. > > > > *- Possible support for Canvas:* Interact with Canvas, via Kinect. > Although > > this can be done also with multitouch technology. > > > > There are many ideas, but these are four simple possibilities that have > > been happening while I was writing this text. > > > > Currently being developed by *MIT*, a JavaScript library, called > *DepthJS*. > > It Allows Any Web page to interact With the Microsoft Kinect using > > Javascript: > > https://github.com/doug/depthjs > > A few months ago that they do not update, and so far only allow web > > browsing via gestures. I suppose that at the moment, not perform a body > > scan to display it on screen in the browser. > > > > Microsoft according to some reports, also being developed for Xbox 360, a > > version of Internet Explorer with supports Kinect. > > > > Well, with this information, you can become a situation of my proposal. > > > > I apologize as said at the beginning of this text, if this proposal is > > absurd, or not is functional in the HTML5 philosophy, and is better to > have > > a separate library as *DepthJS* for this. > > > > I hope to know your opinion and read your comments. > > The ability to capture sound and video from the user's devices and > manipulate it in the page is already being exposed by the getUserMedia > function. Theoretically, a Kinect can provide this information. > > More advanced functionality like Kinect's depth information probably > needs more study and experience before we start thinking about adding > it to the language itself. > > ~TJ >
[whatwg] UndoManager: rationale for having undoManager.position and undoManager.item?
Hi, In the June 8, 2012 version, there's a note after the description of undoManager.item: "Note: Being able to access an arbitrary element in the undo transaction history is needed to allow scripts to determine whether new DOM transaction and the last DOM transaction should being to the same entry or not." I'm guessing undoManager.position exists to be used together with undoManager.item to achieve this. After checking the problem descriptions again (http://wiki.whatwg.org/wiki/UndoManager_Problem_Descriptions), I'm wondering if the use case is only checking the last transaction, couldn't we have a smaller API? Or we have other situations where "peeking" in the undo stack is desired? Maybe is needed for a specific case in Collaborative editing that I couldn't grasp in the problem description? Cheers, -- Caio Marcelo de Oliveira Filho openBossa @ INdT - Instituto Nokia de Tecnologia
Re: [whatwg] Proposal for HTML5: Virtual Tours
Ok, thanks Tab Atkins. I fully understand the reasons for not adding tours to HTML5. I'll try to WebGL to see the power to create this type of functionality. Thanks, I feel that this proposal has not been helpful. 2012/6/25 Tab Atkins Jr. > On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Jesús Ruiz García > wrote: > > Hello again to all the group whatwg. > > > > I have a second proposal, which like the first, I do not know if it can > be > > useful for inclusion in HTML5. > > > > This time, I want to speak to you of the virtual tours, used by museums, > > clinics, libraries, hotels and a long list of websites. > > > > So far, all the more powerful virtual tours I've seen, are made in Flash. > > Usually, these tours are created with the following applications: > > *Easypano Virtual Tour Software*, *3DVista*, *Flashificator*, *Autopano > Tour > > * and some others. > > > > An example of Easypano virtual tour: > > http://www.vitaldent.com/nuestras_clinicas.jsp > > > > Other examples using 3DVista: > > http://www.3dvista.com/virtual-tours-samples.htm > > > > I've been reviewing whether some library is being developed to support > the > > creation of these applications on HTML5. I found a project called > > Pannellum, which uses WebGL: > > http://www.mpetroff.net/archives/2012/05/28/introducing-pannellum/ > > For now though it works properly on Chrome, but isn't powerful or > > beautiful, as are the tours developed with Flash applications. > > > > My proposal is to give more support to this type of works. We could > create > > a new tag called "tour" or something similar. If video and audio have own > > tag, also a tour could be differentiated from the other elements of the > > website. > > This seems to be doable in WebGL just fine. If current WebGL-based > tour things aren't as pretty as the Flash ones, that's just a matter > of the current stuff not being worked on as much - there's nothing > inherent about WebGL that would make it uglier than the Flash version. > > This is not a very useful thing to add to HTML itself. "Tours" like > this are not common, and they would be very difficult to describe in > markup. They are best suited for a specialized JS library. > > ~TJ >
Re: [whatwg] Proposal for HTML5: Motion sensing input device (Kinect, SoftKinetic, Asus Xtion)
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:10 AM, Jesús Ruiz García wrote: > I start indicating that this message can be considered useless. I apologize > for this. > > A few weeks ago I was in the chat #WHATWG, and asked how to send an email > to the list on a proposal to HTML5 (JavaScript). > I've taken a few days before sending this email, because I have been > investigating whether there was a similar project in production, and I've > seen one. > > My proposal for HTML5 is to make it functional with Kinect, SoftKinetic, > Asus Xtion, and similar devices to interact with the web. > Logically, Kinect is the device most commonly used, would be ideal for this > proposal. > > Kinect patent must be owned by Microsoft. I am informed that in HTML5, > there have been discussions on these issues of patents, so this aspect > could possibly be some kind of problem. > From my point of view, it would sell more devices of this type. Surely even > in future be replaced by webcams these devices more powerful and included > as standard on all computers. > > Also, users would have an advance on the web. Because really, I mean just > to give you support to make gestures to browse the web, but for more useful > things. > I have some functions to the web, and see that are not being developed: > > *- Online shopping or Online retailing:* Want to buy clothes, but do not > know what size you are using actually. Online stores may have an option to > run Kinect and scan your body to tell you the correct size for you, for > that article.We could even see if that shirt looks good on you or not. > > *- Webs makeup/hair salon:* With face recognition, could learn/test > different makeup on the market. Obviously these products would be tested > virtually, and then could be purchased. > > *- Webs fitness/rehabilitation:* While this can be considered as a > videogame, I see it more as an application. It would check if the person is > performing well exercise, getting not cause any injury. Rhythm of physical > exercise, and progress in their mobility. > > *- Possible support for Canvas:* Interact with Canvas, via Kinect. Although > this can be done also with multitouch technology. > > There are many ideas, but these are four simple possibilities that have > been happening while I was writing this text. > > Currently being developed by *MIT*, a JavaScript library, called *DepthJS*. > It Allows Any Web page to interact With the Microsoft Kinect using > Javascript: > https://github.com/doug/depthjs > A few months ago that they do not update, and so far only allow web > browsing via gestures. I suppose that at the moment, not perform a body > scan to display it on screen in the browser. > > Microsoft according to some reports, also being developed for Xbox 360, a > version of Internet Explorer with supports Kinect. > > Well, with this information, you can become a situation of my proposal. > > I apologize as said at the beginning of this text, if this proposal is > absurd, or not is functional in the HTML5 philosophy, and is better to have > a separate library as *DepthJS* for this. > > I hope to know your opinion and read your comments. The ability to capture sound and video from the user's devices and manipulate it in the page is already being exposed by the getUserMedia function. Theoretically, a Kinect can provide this information. More advanced functionality like Kinect's depth information probably needs more study and experience before we start thinking about adding it to the language itself. ~TJ
Re: [whatwg] Responsive images using http headers
On 6/25/12 1:34 PM, Oscar Otero wrote: For example, for an image 100% width in a div of 400px, the browser would send a header indicating it need a 400px width image. The problem is that the browser typically does not know the following pieces of information when it sends the image request: 1) The styles of the image. 2) The parent of the image (or even whether the parent is unique; image loads are coalesced if the same URL appears in the page multiple times). It could have that information available if it waited a lot longer to request images [1], but right now browsers try to kick off requests as soon as they can. For example in this example: browsers will currently start loading the image before the stylesheet is done loading. With your proposal they would have to stop doing that, right? -Boris [1] Though in cases like this: the actual layout width of either image can't be determined until the intrinsic size of both images is known. There are lots of other cases like this involving flexbox, floats, etc, etc. -Boris
[whatwg] Responsive images using http headers
Hello I'm Oscar Otero and I have been following very closely the progress of responsive layouts image solutions (, srcset, etc). These solutions are html-based, so they can be easily managed by any designer/frontend developer, but the main problem is the html code is not reusable and hard to manage by content people or CMS systems. I think the responsiveness, when we are talking about images, is not a problem of content but a problem of the bandwidth and performance, so this problem might be solved when the image is requested by using http headers. We can manage the way the page is cached using http headers such Cache-Control, Last-Modified, etc. We do this to prevent too many requests, save bandwidth and improve navigation speed. The image size is the same issue. Then, if we the browser could send a header indicating the size which the image will be displayed in the current page layout (also the connection speed and other useful data) the server can send the most appropiate image (maybe preprocessing it). This is a clean solution, ease to manage and the content staff will not have to worry about image sizes. This solution does not have to replace other solutions (srcset, picture, etc) but improve them. For example, for an image 100% width in a div of 400px, the browser would send a header indicating it need a 400px width image. This solution is also valid for css images (backgrounds, for example) and even for video. The values to send could be the same of css values (width, min-width, max-width, height, min-height, max-height), for example: Content-Size: width:400px, min-height: 300px; The image could have a property to indicate the position of the anchor point to crop the image maintaining the most interesting areas visible (centered by default). The syntax for this property could be the same than the background-position css property. Thanks for reading this message. Best regards. Oscar Otero.
Re: [whatwg] Proposal for HTML5: Virtual Tours
On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 9:14 AM, Jesús Ruiz García wrote: > Hello again to all the group whatwg. > > I have a second proposal, which like the first, I do not know if it can be > useful for inclusion in HTML5. > > This time, I want to speak to you of the virtual tours, used by museums, > clinics, libraries, hotels and a long list of websites. > > So far, all the more powerful virtual tours I've seen, are made in Flash. > Usually, these tours are created with the following applications: > *Easypano Virtual Tour Software*, *3DVista*, *Flashificator*, *Autopano Tour > * and some others. > > An example of Easypano virtual tour: > http://www.vitaldent.com/nuestras_clinicas.jsp > > Other examples using 3DVista: > http://www.3dvista.com/virtual-tours-samples.htm > > I've been reviewing whether some library is being developed to support the > creation of these applications on HTML5. I found a project called > Pannellum, which uses WebGL: > http://www.mpetroff.net/archives/2012/05/28/introducing-pannellum/ > For now though it works properly on Chrome, but isn't powerful or > beautiful, as are the tours developed with Flash applications. > > My proposal is to give more support to this type of works. We could create > a new tag called "tour" or something similar. If video and audio have own > tag, also a tour could be differentiated from the other elements of the > website. This seems to be doable in WebGL just fine. If current WebGL-based tour things aren't as pretty as the Flash ones, that's just a matter of the current stuff not being worked on as much - there's nothing inherent about WebGL that would make it uglier than the Flash version. This is not a very useful thing to add to HTML itself. "Tours" like this are not common, and they would be very difficult to describe in markup. They are best suited for a specialized JS library. ~TJ
[whatwg] Proposal for HTML5: Virtual Tours
Hello again to all the group whatwg. I have a second proposal, which like the first, I do not know if it can be useful for inclusion in HTML5. This time, I want to speak to you of the virtual tours, used by museums, clinics, libraries, hotels and a long list of websites. So far, all the more powerful virtual tours I've seen, are made in Flash. Usually, these tours are created with the following applications: *Easypano Virtual Tour Software*, *3DVista*, *Flashificator*, *Autopano Tour * and some others. An example of Easypano virtual tour: http://www.vitaldent.com/nuestras_clinicas.jsp Other examples using 3DVista: http://www.3dvista.com/virtual-tours-samples.htm I've been reviewing whether some library is being developed to support the creation of these applications on HTML5. I found a project called Pannellum, which uses WebGL: http://www.mpetroff.net/archives/2012/05/28/introducing-pannellum/ For now though it works properly on Chrome, but isn't powerful or beautiful, as are the tours developed with Flash applications. My proposal is to give more support to this type of works. We could create a new tag called "tour" or something similar. If video and audio have own tag, also a tour could be differentiated from the other elements of the website. As I always say in my posts, I apologize if this has already been discussed, or this isn't HTML5 philosophy. A greeting, thanks and pardon for my english. *Jesús Ruiz* jesusr...@php.net jesusruiz2...@gmail.com
[whatwg] Proposal for HTML5: Motion sensing input device (Kinect, SoftKinetic, Asus Xtion)
Hello and thanks for reading this message. I start indicating that this message can be considered useless. I apologize for this. A few weeks ago I was in the chat #WHATWG, and asked how to send an email to the list on a proposal to HTML5 (JavaScript). I've taken a few days before sending this email, because I have been investigating whether there was a similar project in production, and I've seen one. My proposal for HTML5 is to make it functional with Kinect, SoftKinetic, Asus Xtion, and similar devices to interact with the web. Logically, Kinect is the device most commonly used, would be ideal for this proposal. Kinect patent must be owned by Microsoft. I am informed that in HTML5, there have been discussions on these issues of patents, so this aspect could possibly be some kind of problem. >From my point of view, it would sell more devices of this type. Surely even in future be replaced by webcams these devices more powerful and included as standard on all computers. Also, users would have an advance on the web. Because really, I mean just to give you support to make gestures to browse the web, but for more useful things. I have some functions to the web, and see that are not being developed: *- Online shopping or Online retailing:* Want to buy clothes, but do not know what size you are using actually. Online stores may have an option to run Kinect and scan your body to tell you the correct size for you, for that article.We could even see if that shirt looks good on you or not. *- Webs makeup/hair salon:* With face recognition, could learn/test different makeup on the market. Obviously these products would be tested virtually, and then could be purchased. *- Webs fitness/rehabilitation:* While this can be considered as a videogame, I see it more as an application. It would check if the person is performing well exercise, getting not cause any injury. Rhythm of physical exercise, and progress in their mobility. *- Possible support for Canvas:* Interact with Canvas, via Kinect. Although this can be done also with multitouch technology. There are many ideas, but these are four simple possibilities that have been happening while I was writing this text. Currently being developed by *MIT*, a JavaScript library, called *DepthJS*. It Allows Any Web page to interact With the Microsoft Kinect using Javascript: https://github.com/doug/depthjs A few months ago that they do not update, and so far only allow web browsing via gestures. I suppose that at the moment, not perform a body scan to display it on screen in the browser. Microsoft according to some reports, also being developed for Xbox 360, a version of Internet Explorer with supports Kinect. Well, with this information, you can become a situation of my proposal. I apologize as said at the beginning of this text, if this proposal is absurd, or not is functional in the HTML5 philosophy, and is better to have a separate library as *DepthJS* for this. I hope to know your opinion and read your comments. Regards and thanks for reading this proposal. I hope to know your opinion and read your comments. Sorry for my English, I'm Spanish. *Jesús Ruiz* jesusr...@php.net jesusruiz2...@gmail.com
Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?
On 19/06/2012 18:56, Chaals McCathieNevile wrote: > >> In both cases it is an existential threat to freedom and civil >> liberties. > > I think that is overstating the case. A *lot*. It is not. This is not the venue to discuss this so I will not reply on this list to any further messages but as the simple statement above is unsatisfactory, I will briefly list some supporting points. Re: platform providers Due to Apple's level of control I cannot run the browser of my choice on iOS. The Kindle, Windows 8 Metro, iOS and probably Android and ChromeOS have mechanisms whereby the platform provider can remotely delete applications & content and the licenses include language making you give permission for them to do this. One only has to recall how quickly Amazon folded over the Wikileaks matter to see how profoundly dangerous is the mere existence of such capability. Re: government The dangers here are more obvious, such as the systems the US government has put it place by which it can prevent anyone traveling without giving any reason why and those which gather, in massive databases, the photographs and fingerprints of anyone who visits the USA and any legal permanent resident who wishes to travel outside the USA. In these cases, and many others, it is ease of misuse, and government penchant for overreach, which makes these things so dangerous to civil liberties and human rights. Regards -Mark
