[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution||FIXED -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #290 from David E. Siegel sie...@acm.org 2009-05-25 22:01:52 UTC --- (In reply to comment #287) ... HOWEVER, I think it would be better to simply revert ALL of the changes associated with this bug, and to close the bug as WONTFIX since the recent ArbCom-sponsored poll determined that the existing autoformatting is to be eliminated anyway. MediaWiki is uised on sites other than en.wp. Even if the poll indicates that this functionality will never be used on the en wikipedia, it may well be useful on other mediawiki sites. Of course, for many such sites, the original request of new syntax to accomplish formatting *without* linking would be preferable, and i think simpler to code, since detectign existing date formats would not be an issue. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #289 from Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org 2009-05-24 09:12:10 UTC --- I don't care whether English Wikipedia wants to use it or not. There is useful functionality in MediaWiki that needs to be fixed. Please don't decide on my behalf that I'm not going to work on a feature unless your name is Brion Vibber. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added AssignedTo|wikibugs- |agarr...@wikimedia.org |l...@lists.wikimedia.org | Status|REOPENED|NEW -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Rich Farmbrough rich...@farmbrough.co.uk changed: What|Removed |Added Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED Resolution||WONTFIX --- Comment #288 from Rich Farmbrough rich...@farmbrough.co.uk 2009-05-23 13:29:16 UTC --- I agree with Bill and am closeing the bug. See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18479 for the request to turn off autoformatting on en:WP. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582
wcl...@xoom.org changed:
What|Removed |Added
Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
Resolution|FIXED |
--- Comment #287 from wcl...@xoom.org 2009-05-08 01:51:09 UTC ---
The most recent changes break existing autoformatting for linked dates (not
those in {{#formatdate}}) -- badly. The problem is that by putting an
additional () grouping into the regexes, the characters of $this-keys no
longer correspond to the correct groups.
This will fix it:
Index: includes/parser/DateFormatter.php
===
--- includes/parser/DateFormatter.php (revision 50326)
+++ includes/parser/DateFormatter.php (working copy)
@@ -59,10 +59,10 @@
# Extraction keys
# See the comments in replace() for the meaning of the letters
- $this-keys[self::DMY] = 'jFY';
+ $this-keys[self::DMY] = 'jF Y';
$this-keys[self::YDM] = 'Y jF';
- $this-keys[self::MDY] = 'FjY';
- $this-keys[self::YMD] = 'Y Fj';
+ $this-keys[self::MDY] = 'Fj Y';
+ $this-keys[self::YMD] = 'Y Fj';
$this-keys[self::DM] = 'jF';
$this-keys[self::MD] = 'Fj';
$this-keys[self::ISO1] = 'ymd'; # y means ISO year
HOWEVER, I think it would be better to simply revert ALL of the changes
associated with this bug, and to close the bug as WONTFIX since the recent
ArbCom-sponsored poll determined that the existing autoformatting is to be
eliminated anyway.
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[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED Resolution||FIXED --- Comment #286 from Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org 2009-04-24 04:01:44 UTC --- Fixed, with a parser test case in r49794. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582
--- Comment #283 from Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org 2009-04-11
15:20:55 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #282)
This wikitext:
{{#formatdate:January 15}}
Produces this page text:
January 1, 5
Surely that's not correct.
Quoted from my talk page, on this matter:
If you're interested in fixing the problem with yearless dates, it's an
interesting one. When you strip out the [[ ]] syntax, you end up leaving *,?
* as the only thing separating the day from the year, and since that regex
matches the empty string, the parser function thinks the first digit of a
two-digit day is the day, and the second digit is the year (or the other way
around, depending on what the raw format is.) Fixing it is non-trivial
because while the simple and obvious fix is to use *,? + (or *,? * for
the non-perl-compatible regex) that will introduce annoying edge cases where
the comma is misplaced (handled correctly by the standard autoformatting) or
where the year is on a new line in the wikitext. I'm not sure if those edge
cases are worth worrying about though. --UC_Bill (talk) 18:30, 10 March 2009
(UTC)
Maybe ( ,)+ would be better.. except that will allow [[15
January]][[2009]] to be matched (which may or may not be a problem) and
would require some corresponding changes to the keys array in DateFormatter
to tell it to ignore the new match register. --UC_Bill (talk) 18:41, 10 March
2009 (UTC)
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[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #284 from Philippe Verdy verd...@wanadoo.fr 2009-04-11 16:33:02 UTC --- Why not simply: ( *, *| +) ? This seems a trivial change that explicitly wants a single comma with optional surrounding spaces, or at least one space. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED Resolution||FIXED --- Comment #281 from Andrew Garrett agarr...@wikimedia.org 2009-04-07 00:50:54 UTC --- parser test cases were done ages ago. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 macgyverma...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||macgyverma...@gmail.com --- Comment #280 from macgyverma...@gmail.com 2009-03-31 10:36:46 UTC --- It's a nice addition for templates, but not suitable for use in regular articles because it uses unneccesarily complicated formatting. The perceived problem with regular linking of dates is that it caused irrelevant links in whatlinkshere, but it's format is highly superior. Can't we just choose how to format a date in our preferences without the requirement for any extra coding at all? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Brion Vibber br...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||br...@wikimedia.org Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED Resolution|FIXED | --- Comment #279 from Brion Vibber br...@wikimedia.org 2009-03-18 23:02:56 UTC --- Since this tweaks around markup, it really needs some parser test cases. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Andrew Garrett and...@epstone.net changed: What|Removed |Added CC||and...@epstone.net Status|REOPENED|RESOLVED Resolution||FIXED --- Comment #278 from Andrew Garrett and...@epstone.net 2009-03-10 01:13:50 UTC --- Fixed, r48249. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #270 from S. McCandlish [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-05 09:23:41 UTC --- I can resignedly go along with Bill's idea (third patch), though it doesn't seem optimum to me. I can't agree with the idea that the sea of blue isn't a real problem and we need more and more links. Overlinking is a well-studied problem in usability circles, and has been since the mid-1990s, with a lot of data backing up the concerns. It's not a WP issue, but a general one with regard to hypertext media as a class. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #273 from Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-05 16:07:13 UTC --- (In reply to comment #271) I can't see how ordinary editors can be said to win by being prevented from making links to dates in the normal way they make links to everything else; nor is it the developers' job to forcibly delink *all* existing dates (which would be the consequence of this patch - again unless I've misunderstood). Dates that use the [[:]] or [[|]] style of markup will still be linked but not autoformatted, just as they are now. It's only the dates with [[]] markup that will appear unlinked (and in raw format) on the page. Presumably some of the [[]] dates are ones that really *should* remain linked, and editors will need to change those to [[:]] or [[|]] format to re-enable the links after (if) the patch is applied. It's important to note that there are a number of editors that are manually removing ALL of the [[]] markup around links, RIGHT NOW. They've already removed thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, of such links. In doing so they're also eliminating valuable markup that could be put to better use, or (if consensus dictates) re-enable date linking/autoformatting. The proposed (third) patch accomplishes the same goal as these editors -- eliminate date linking and autoformatting for [[]] dates while leaving [[:]] and [[|]] ones untouched -- but in a way that happens immediately and which is completely reversible. So instead of writing everybody wins I should have written the people currently removing link syntax win, and the people (including me) who want to develop an improved parser function that depends on date markup don't lose quite as badly as they otherwise would. That better? -Bill -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #275 from Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-05 17:20:54 UTC --- (In reply to comment #274) who would have to learn a different linking syntax specially for dates There's *already* a different linking syntax for dates, and it's the same as for links to categories and for images (and inter-wiki links for that matter.) The patch doesn't change that. If I wanted to link to a specific date *currently* I would still need to use the [[:]] or [[|]] syntax to do it, otherwise my link would automatically be broken into a link to the day-month combination and a different link to the year. So the patch has nothing to do with the weird date linking syntax. those who wish to retain existing linked dates in many articles (such as the chronological articles themselves). If those dates aren't already marked up using either the [[:]] or [[|]] syntax, then editors like Tony and Lightmouse are going to delink them (if they haven't done so already.) They're using a Javascript tool that does the delinking automatically and (if the number of complaints on their talk pages are any indication) they aren't being too careful about which dates they're delinking. I'm personally all in favour of the delinking, but I don't see a need to do it by brute force in a way that leaves a pointless syntactical complication for editors frozen in for the foreseeable future. I don't see the need to do it by brute force (which applies more to what Tony and others are doing rather than the proposed patch) in a way that makes the decision (reached without proper consensus) hard to reverse. Bear in mind that the patch is meant as a temporary measure. Applying it would allow us to do *instantly* what Tony and others will take months or years to do by hand, and to gauge reader response right away. If readers complain about the change, it's trivial to remove the patch and revert the instructions on MOSNUM to how they were for the past few years (i.e. encourage date linking for autoformatting.) If readers applaud the change, then the manual delinking could still occur (or a bot could take over) to clean up the now-obsolete linking syntax, and THEN the patch could be removed. Either way, the patch will eventually no longer be needed, either because an improved date autoformatting function has been created or because readers show that they really do want date linking and/or autoformatting. -Bill -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #276 from Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-05 17:24:02 UTC --- (In reply to comment #275) Either way, the patch will eventually no longer be needed, either because an improved date autoformatting function has been created or because readers show that they really do want date linking and/or autoformatting. Sorry.. that last part should read: or because readers show that they really DON'T want date linking and/or autoformatting. -Bill -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #266 from Le Chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-03 08:56:38 UTC --- Seems to me that all the devs need to do is to provide a magic word for user locale (value dependent on user preference or browser information); it would then be up to individual wikiprojects to decide whether to use it and how. If they did decide to use it it would be easy to make parser-function-based templates to do date autoformatting, spelling autoformatting and whatever else, without the need for any more software enhancements. (I don't know how the caching problem would be solved, but presumably in whatever way it's currently solved with date autoformats.) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #268 from Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-03 20:26:46 UTC --- (In reply to comment #267) Once editors/bots begin mass de-linking dates (and the RFCs indicate that this is going to happen) there will be no horse to put the cart before. It's not just going to happen -- it's already happening. That's what got me involved in this bug in the first place, since Tony (et al.) were refusing to hold off on delinking, and used the lack of response on this bug as an excuse. By their own estimates, they've already delinked tens of thousands of dates in thousands of articles. The RFCs are an attempt to get them to stop, or to at least get some GENUINE consensus support for their actions. I'd prefer to keep date autoformatting and actually LIKE the date links (I don't agree that overlinking is EVER an issue.. I'd prefer to see MORE links in articles, not fewer) but more importantly I want to see the markup left in place so that we have the option of doing something more useful with it in the future. With the markup, it would be trivial to have a bot replace the [[]] with a template or new syntax or whatever... but without the markup, all of that would need to be done manually, to confirm that we're not dealing with a date in a quote, or odd formatting edge cases like On March 1, 500 people were killed which could either mean that 500 people were killed on March 1 or that some unspecified number of people were killed on March 1, 500 A.D. If the consensus is that date autoformatting should be done away with and dates should not (usually) be linked, then I'd prefer to have that enforced by applying the third patch, since it would leave all the markup in place (and we could then proceed to start working on an improved date autoformatting for some future release). It would also accomplish the goal of Tony and his cohorts right away, without them having to edit untold number of articles. Everybody wins. -Bill -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #269 from cypsy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-03 22:34:16 UTC --- ... used the lack of response on this bug as an excuse. Its a valid point. Cf. comment #35 of 16 December 2006 Lack of response is also a response. Its not an unjustifiable position either, after all if X is causing a problem then X should be removed. Since X is local to en.wiki, its up to en.wiki to remove it. Everybody wins. Its a well-known fact that everybody wins with patch #3. There is however no indication that it will in fact be implemented. Indeed, the opposite is true. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #264 from S. McCandlish [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-02 10:53:41 UTC --- Discussion on the English Wikipedia Manual of Style (dates and numbers) seems to be building a consensus to not do autoformatting, especially if non-logged-in readers do not benefit. If eventually autoformatting is no longer done, and gradually all autoformatting markup is removed, then someone who wants to link to an article about a date for some reason will have to use the odd syntax [[:February 30]], and since there will be few examples of autoformatting markup around, the reason for this odd syntax will not be apparent. That's a cart-before-the-horse issue, really. MOSNUM is castigating autoformatting because it creates a sea of blue. If THAT problem is solved, then there is no particular reason to oppose autoformatting, and as others have pointed out here there are other potential uses for autoformatting more generally (color/colour, etc.), if it doesn't overload the wikilinking function. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #265 from Alexfusco5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-02 22:54:13 UTC --- (In reply to comment #264) Discussion on the English Wikipedia Manual of Style (dates and numbers) seems to be building a consensus to not do autoformatting, especially if non-logged-in readers do not benefit. If eventually autoformatting is no longer done, and gradually all autoformatting markup is removed, then someone who wants to link to an article about a date for some reason will have to use the odd syntax [[:February 30]], and since there will be few examples of autoformatting markup around, the reason for this odd syntax will not be apparent. That's a cart-before-the-horse issue, really. MOSNUM is castigating autoformatting because it creates a sea of blue. If THAT problem is solved, then there is no particular reason to oppose autoformatting, and as others have pointed out here there are other potential uses for autoformatting more generally (color/colour, etc.), if it doesn't overload the wikilinking function. 2 things need to be noted. 1) The English Wikipedia is not the only website using mediawiki 2) There is also probably going to be a configurable default set -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #256 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-01 20:52:23 UTC --- We don't really seem to be getting anywhere here, I think at the least we need to summarize the options. Here's a list of the ones I've noted, some can be combined with others: 1. Remove date autoformatting entirely (rather than removing the option entirely from code, this could most easily be accomplished by setting $wgUseDynamicDates to false for enwiki) 2. Keep the current syntax, remove the links: [[date]] would continue to autoformat, but it wouldn't create a link, [[:date]] would continue to work as it currently does 3. Remove autoformatting and linking, [[date]] would be parsed as date - no link, no formatting 4. Create a new syntax for date autoformatting (a parser function, some new syntax, etc), [[date]] would work the same as any other normal link, [[:date]] would continue to work as it currently does 5. Wrap dates in a span for client-side customization with JavaScript 6. Change the default date format preference from no preference to something more sensible Option 1 would obviously be the simplest, though a combination of options 4, 5, and 6 would also remove most of the problems I think. I really don't care for option 2, and option 3 is pretty terrible IMO. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582
--- Comment #257 from S. McCandlish [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-01 22:25:06
UTC ---
That list seems to be missing the main one proposed, for which a patch has
already been written:
7. [[date]] would autoformat but NOT link, just as [[image]] and [[category]]
do something special and don't make a link, while [[:date]] would link but not
autoformat (just as [[:image]] and [[:category]] create links but don't do
anything special). If someone wants to link AND autoformat, which frankly
would be kind of weird, they can use template code, examples of which have
already been posted.
I think it is important to keep in mind that the main impetus behind this bug
report is the sea of blue problem. I think few of us would cry if the
autoformatting just plain stopped, but I don't think many have been actually
asking for that, and resolving the sea-of-blue problem doesn't require that,
nor require new features, like a new date or {{#date}} or {{DATE:date}}
syntax.
Imagining some wiki where linking to actual articles on every conceivable date
would make sense AND where autoformatting is important (I cannot think of any
practical application of this, but let's pretend), this can just be handled
with templates. Enwiki is awash in useless, reader-distracting date links (I
want to point out that the frequent kvetching against Tony1 about that here is
a red herring; many, many users have been removing such date links), and as the
most-used wiki in the world, by several orders of magnitude, not to mention the
Wikimedia flagship and thus the source of funding for MediaWiki to even have
this site to argue about bugs, I don't feel we can just throw up our hands and
not resolve this, in an enwiki-favorable manner.
My vote is to just do #7, and keep this as simple as possible, so that it
actually proceeds instead of sitting here as a languishing bone of contention
for another 2 years.
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[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #259 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-01 23:52:39 UTC --- (In reply to comment #257) That list seems to be missing the main one proposed, for which a patch has already been written: 7. [[date]] would autoformat but NOT link, just as [[image]] and [[category]] do something special and don't make a link, while [[:date]] would link but not autoformat (just as [[:image]] and [[:category]] create links but don't do anything special). If someone wants to link AND autoformat, which frankly would be kind of weird, they can use template code, examples of which have already been posted. That would be #2, Keep the current syntax, remove the links: [[date]] would continue to autoformat, but it wouldn't create a link -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #260 from Voyagerfan5761 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-02 00:30:37 UTC --- (In reply to comment #259) (In reply to comment #257) That list seems to be missing the main one proposed, for which a patch has already been written: 7. [[date]] would autoformat but NOT link, just as [[image]] and [[category]] do something special and don't make a link, while [[:date]] would link but not autoformat (just as [[:image]] and [[:category]] create links but don't do anything special). If someone wants to link AND autoformat, which frankly would be kind of weird, they can use template code, examples of which have already been posted. That would be #2, Keep the current syntax, remove the links: [[date]] would continue to autoformat, but it wouldn't create a link So if #7 is the same as #2, and #7 already has a patch written for it, #2 already has a patch written. Since #(7|2) is also the main one proposed, is there any reason the patch shouldn't be applied to allow this bug to be finally closed for good? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #261 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-02 00:48:09 UTC --- (In reply to comment #260) (In reply to comment #259) (In reply to comment #257) That list seems to be missing the main one proposed, for which a patch has already been written: 7. [[date]] would autoformat but NOT link, just as [[image]] and [[category]] do something special and don't make a link, while [[:date]] would link but not autoformat (just as [[:image]] and [[:category]] create links but don't do anything special). If someone wants to link AND autoformat, which frankly would be kind of weird, they can use template code, examples of which have already been posted. That would be #2, Keep the current syntax, remove the links: [[date]] would continue to autoformat, but it wouldn't create a link So if #7 is the same as #2, and #7 already has a patch written for it, #2 already has a patch written. Since #(7|2) is also the main one proposed, is there any reason the patch shouldn't be applied to allow this bug to be finally closed for good? Because A) it doesn't solve all the problems (crappy default being the big one) B) its not clear if that's what people actually want, hence my summary of the multitude of options. C) Many of the options are easy, Option 1 for example doesn't need a patch at all, its a matter of removing 1 line from the Wikimedia config files. Just because option 2 happens to have had code written for it first doesn't mean its the best option. D) I'm not entirely convinced its a good idea to use link syntax for a non-link. Category and Image links don't create normal links, but they do create links. E) I haven't tested it yet. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #262 from Gerry Ashton [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-02 03:34:13 UTC --- VoyagerFan5761 asks why not do #7. Discussion on the English Wikipedia Manual of Style (dates and numbers) seems to be building a consensus to not do autoformatting, especially if non-logged-in readers do not benefit. If eventually autoformatting is no longer done, and gradually all autoformatting markup is removed, then someone who wants to link to an article about a date for some reason will have to use the odd syntax [[:February 30]], and since there will be few examples of autoformatting markup around, the reason for this odd syntax will not be apparent. This does not compare to the unusual syntax for images, because the current form of image linking does not seem to be going away. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Minh Nguyễn [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added CC||[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Comment #253 from Minh Nguyễn [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-30 22:27:08 UTC --- (In reply to comment #252) Date autoformatting in MediaWiki has been around since 2003. There are 5 different options and the default is no autoformatting. If I'm not mistaken, the autoformatting is only supported for the English localization. In other locales, the date format option in [[Special:Preferences]] only affects MediaWiki's interface, not the wiki's content. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #254 from Alexfusco5 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-30 23:32:57 UTC --- @MrZman that was the point, [[:]] only creates a link and if its wrapped in [[]] (the link syntax that is) its both linked and autoformatted. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582
--- Comment #255 from S. McCandlish [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-12-01 00:08:50
UTC ---
Yeah! Two hacks introduced recently in English Wikipedia (and badly
documented), two errors, and now you're thinking about compatiblity elsewhere ?
No. you shoulmd revert this support, as it is completely UNNEEDED and
generates more problems than what it is supposed to solve.
Exactly. Calling date linking+autformatting as currently implemented a
feature is disingenuous. The ranty earlier message about it being
oh-so-important to preserve all of this and introduce some new date syntax
(or {{#date}}, I think someone else suggested along the same lines) seems to me
to be missing the point and unnecessarily complicating the issue.
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[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #248 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-30 03:52:38 UTC --- (In reply to comment #247) *All dates with [[:]] will be autoformatted and linked Isn't that sort of the opposite of current behavior? I thought currently [[:date]] is used for linking without autoformatting. If we change it so that it does autoformatting it will potentially break existing uses, or at least be confusing. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #244 from cypsy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-27 21:46:47 UTC --- (In reply to comment #237) (In reply to comment #236) Which patch? #1 is out of the question, as Bill points out. #2, #3 and #4 all prevent linked dates from being links. So they all fix the seas of blue problem. #4 also fixes the ISO cruft for anons/noprefset problem. The objection that the squid cache makes [#4] unworkable is not the whole story. Squid caching only applies to anons, so #4 still works fine for the noprefset registered users. And even *if* the patch were not modified to deal with anons some other way (eg comment #243), then anons would get to see whatever it was that the last anon who caused a fetch from MW saw. Which A) is still a whole sight better than seeing ISO cruft, B) a pretty good weighted-random choice of which dateformat to display for anons. The bottom line is that *something* needs to be done at DateFormatter too, otherwise the seas of blue will continue to exist, and people will continue to go around removing date links, which is inherently destructive. Although there is a Javascript solution available, its not a viable solution unless DateFormatter adds the appropriate markup /and/ the admins make the Javascript site-wide, which is unlikely to happen because -- as we see from the interminable discussions elsewhere -- common-sense is in short supply. Objecting all very well and good, but #3 and #4 are a GoodThing, and if there are problems with them, then these can be fixed or compensated for. Squid et al are not the show-stoppers that they being treated as. For those joining the discussion late (e.g. Mr. Z Man and Philippe Verdy): the title of this bug only tells half the story. This bug is in effect the search for a technical solution to the perennial discussions at en:wp, which are provoked by A) the eyesore caused by the linked dates also appearing as links; B) the fact that only very few dates actually need to be links; C) the inconsistencies that appear in an article if not every date is linked; D) the cruft that anons and editors without a datepref get to see, E) the (preservation of) meta information present in [[date]]s but not in plain text. Patch #3 addresses issues A, B, C, E. Patch #4: A, B, C, D, E. (comment #236) People aren't just going to grab a patch and commit it. Especially when the last patch seems to be entirely different from what's being requested in these past several comments. This comment borders on stupidity. All the issues noted above are already mentioned in the top 10 comments on this page, which are from Jan-March *2006*. That these issues have not been addressed (and in fact the reason why this bug was once closed for equally ignorant and stupid reasons) is due solely to dev apathy and their inability to read (evident again in a recent email). One need only follow Tony Souter's (en:User:Tony1) comments on this page -- from engaged and supportive (comment #14) to disillusioned (comment #158) -- to recognize how destructive dev negligence has been. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #246 from S. McCandlish [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-28 06:29:51 UTC --- Just because the English Wikipedia decided it doesn't think dates should be linked anymore, doesn't mean we should force that on every user of MediaWiki. It's really the opposite, though. Someone, back when, decided it would be a good idea to operator overload linking and date autoformatting, and this was pushed on user of WP and every other MW installation. Today, virtually everyone who has thought about it agrees that it was a bad idea. Insulting the people trying to help isn't really going to get them to help. I absolutely agree, and want to point out that not everyone involved here is being negative. I appreciate the time and analysis you've put into this, and fully understand that you cannot just go implement something without understanding its ramifications, nor implement something A when something B and something C have also been proposed. I really don't like the idea of having normal wikilink syntax do something, but not actually make a link. Strikes me as a non-issue, since [[image]] and [[category]] already do non-linky things. I think it is more accurate to think of [[something]] as take an action code. That action is most commonly creating a wikilink, but for a very long time has obviously also had alternative meanings depending upon context. This wouldn't be any different, and having [[date]] not create a link but do autoformatting instead, and [[:date]] create a link, is actually more, not less, consistent with this [[something]] model. In very, very few cases is there any need for a date to actually be linked; probably far fewer cases than there are cases (e.g. on Wikipedia:-namespace pages where images and categories are being discussed) of categories and images needing to be wikilinked to instead of being inlined or being added as a category to a page, respectively. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #232 from Stephen Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-26 08:41:17 UTC --- The request is to separate the syntax for date autoformatting from the syntax for linking. At the moment they both use the same syntax, so it's impossible to have one without the other. I agree that that sentence doesn't form a plan of action, and the reason this bug is so long is that people have different ideas about how to solve it. But there is a genuine user problem here. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #236 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-26 17:00:01 UTC --- (In reply to comment #234) (In reply to comment #233) then that should be fairly trivial to fix (just rewrite whatever code does the autoformatting so that it's triggered by some formatting feature other than links, like a CSS style). just add the necessary span class=x to Bill's patch. Which patch? There's 4. And CSS classes shouldn't trigger the parser to do things, that's just incorrect on multiple levels. CSS classes should be used for CSS styling or to help JavaScript find the right objects, that's pretty much it. It needs to be some sort of syntax that isn't already reserved for something else (like CSS styling or normal links). That needs to be decided before anything is done. Is there anything else? Nope. As for Developers don't have time: Bill has already done the work. Its /done/. Devs just need to pick it up. Someone needs to give tstarling a wake-up call; its his baby. People aren't just going to grab a patch and commit it. Especially when the last patch seems to be entirely different from what's being requested in these past several comments. Mr Z-man's comment re squid caching for anon users is not a reason why date formatting cannot default to a human-readable format (instead of self::NONE, which -- because of ISO date usage -- is a disaster). I never said it was. Its the reason why there can only be one default. Defaulting to a different version depending on what the browser language is won't work for anons. The actual default can be changed, as long as there's only one default. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #240 from Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-26 20:21:17 UTC --- (In reply to comment #239) Also I don't support the unneeded special wiki syntax for formatting dates. This is not needed at all ! Using an alternate markup syntax was suggested when we were discussing server-side date processing to be done in DateFormatter.php, but that's not a viable approach any longer. So you're correct that the currently proposed solution (using Javascript to do client-side date formatting) can make do with a template. That's very different than what was being discussed before, and in the server-side approach, a new syntax would have been better than using a template. That's why it was being proposed, although it's no longer under consideration. -Bill -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #242 from Philippe Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-26 23:00:01 UTC --- That's simple: if you implemented user-specific data formatting, keep the syntax you have adopted for Wiki, but make it generate a generic format that will be handled now with Javascript (and well, ignore anonymous users without preferences in some user account...). Anyway, I have made some other suggestions on Madiawiki to help servers reduce the load of Wikimedia Squid caches and PHP servers. Basically, it's time to think about creating a locally deployable proxy version of the MediaWiki software, implementing the PHP MediaWiki PHP code, the PHP engine and the web server, and also working as the proxy that a local browser (or a new dedicated MediaWiki browser with extra editing tools) could connect to instead of connecting directly to the online service. I suggested that this type of deployment cuold also be part of a CD/DVD distribution and would allow eliminating the need to preview before sending edits. Instead I spoke about the possibility of the locally deployed proxy to be able to have its own local cache, communicating with the online server only with pages in raw format (much less load on Wikimedia PHP servers, because much less work to do in PHP for formatting pages, just the need to manage the history and control the access rights, and the possibility to inform the conencted users about incoming messages). The locally deployed proxy would be able to load pages from a locally installed database (from a dump stored on a CD/DVD or downloaded onto a harddisk) and filter out the edits made by the local user(s) that could mange a queue of updates to send (in a private, corporate or shoold environment, it would be possible to support a supervizion for pages sent/edited from the local network through the proxy storing the list of locally edited pages, if local users are not directly granted the right to commit their pages online without permission or basic monitoring anf history. I spoke also about the fact that this would also allow Wikipedia and similar collaborative projects to be able to better control the level of vandalism made mostly anonymously from school/university networks (no more need to ban the entire school or university, if it has firewalled Wikiemdia servers but routed them through a MediaWiki proxy managing the supervision: the school or corporate network would be able to submit updates through public online accounts managed by supervizors that are contactable and can act locally about the vandalism or breach of copyright by one of their supervized local users (that may be connected to the local proxy using a strong and verifiable identity that does not need to be transmitted online, so it can also improve their online privacy). Finally, the whole set: a dedicated MediaWiki browser application and a local proxy could become the prefered way to work with Wikipedia: all would be integrated including the management of the submission queue and a local supervizion of the queue by the user itself, managing himself the pririty of queues. As it would embed a local cache, it would perform much less traffic with the online server. The Wikimedia's Squid proxies would still be used, but onlyto cache the much smaller raw pages instead of the large HTML pages. The Wikimedia's own MEdiaWiki servers would also see much less traffic and would caould satisfy more users with limited local cache of pre-generated HTML pages (without the user-specific additions like messages), because all locally deployed proxies would only communicate with them in raw format. So that's a way to control for a longer term the problem of the explosion of traffic and of server costs to manage this traffic. You would not necessarily need the same explosion in terms of number of squid servers needed to cache the full HTML pages (they would still be needed to cache the images, because, by default, the image thumbnails should be generated centrally and cached centrally to avoid sending them always in full resolution to every user of a proxy version of MediaWiki... Well all this goes too far way from the current problem of date formatting. I realize that the fact you have eimplemented it is causing problems wiith more traffic generated, but it should be easily reverted before its use becomes widespread, or the onli ne preformances will suffer. I suggest the simple solution of generating a single HTML code for your existing syntax, and then let a Javascript gadget perform the actual formatting. Your squid servers will appreciate ! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added CC||[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Comment #222 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-25 15:43:28 UTC --- Note that the way Wikimedia's caching works, anons will only be able to see one style of date links without significantly reducing the effectiveness of caching. Wikimedia uses a [[Squid cache]], which means that for anonymous users, the process to get a page from the server works something like: 1. Is the page in the cache? a. If so, and the cache hasn't expired, return the cached version b. Otherwise, continue 2. Start up MediaWiki to get the page a. Is the page in the parser cache? If so, return that version b. If not, get the text from the database and reparse For anon users to have multiple options for date formatting, the number of cache misses would likely rise significantly, especially at first, and the size of the cache could potentially be multiplied by the number of formatting options. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #223 from Bill Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-25 22:23:40 UTC --- (In reply to comment #222) Note that the way Wikimedia's caching works, anons will only be able to see one style of date links without significantly reducing the effectiveness of caching. Yep. That's pretty much a show-stopper, too. At best we'd be able to fool the squid cache into treating the MDY and DMY versions of a page as two different pages (with which to display determined by the HTTP headers sent by the browser) but that would still cut the cache efficiency in half, which is too much of a performance hit for too little gain. I'm giving up on this bug and recommending that it be closed. A javascript-based approach would still work, but that's well beyond the scope of this request and a new one should be opened if people want to pursue that route. This also means that anyone who wants to keep Date Autoformatting should start reverting the work of Tony, et. al. with their date unlinking, since it doesn't look like a technical fix is in the works after all, and the only reason some of us have been holding off on the reverts is because we'd been hoping for a better (technical) solution. -Bill -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #224 from Masem [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-25 22:29:43 UTC --- FWIW, in reply to Bill's comment on closing the bug, I will point out a current RFC where it was asked if editors feel Date Autoformatting is desirable, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)/Date_Linking_RFC#Is_some_method_of_date_autoformatting_desirable.3F The answer seems to be leaning to no, so closing the bug and giving up on fixing it would seem to be agreeable. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #225 from Omegatron [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-25 22:34:32 UTC --- (In reply to comment #223) Yep. That's pretty much a show-stopper, too. At best we'd be able to fool the squid cache into treating the MDY and DMY versions of a page as two different pages (with which to display determined by the HTTP headers sent by the browser) but that would still cut the cache efficiency in half, which is too much of a performance hit for too little gain. We've been through this already. The default format for all unregistered users should be 28 May 1996 as per RFC 2822. Then you only need to cache one version of the page. But the dates should be given a class name like span class=localizedate, so that third-party tools can recognize from the HTML which dates should be left verbatim and which can be localized. This offloads the formatting for anons into a javascript, which can be written at any later date and doesn't have anything to do with Mediawiki itself. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #227 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-25 23:03:07 UTC --- So this request is to just change the default date preference formats on the English Wikipedia ($wgDefaultUserOptions), and have the parser wrap them in a span? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #228 from S. McCandlish [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-26 03:55:08 UTC --- (In reply to comment #227) So this request is to just change the default date preference formats on the English Wikipedia ($wgDefaultUserOptions), and have the parser wrap them in a span? No. I think you need to read up on a lot more of the discussion. The defaults are a minor side point. This bug is to make [[date]] stop autoformatting, and have [[:date]] do that instead. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #229 from Mr.Z-man [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-26 06:04:37 UTC --- Okay, nobody's going to do this if they have to read through 2 years worth of comments to figure out what's going on. When I first saw this, the plan seemed to be to modify the software to give some sort of date formatting for anon users. This bug has more than 3 times as many comments than bug 57 - the bug for single-user-login! Please, someone just summarize what the request here actually is, then there is a chance that it might get resolved sometime this century. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 --- Comment #231 from Le Chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-26 07:57:16 UTC --- rantWhy not just NOT DO THIS? What is the problem it's trying to solve? I'm just amazed that a colour-of-the-bikeshed discussion about date formats should grow to such grotesque proportions. Can anyone explain why this (whatever this currently is) is even being considered? (Or, for that matter, why the original date autoformatting function was even considered?) Developers don't have time for many of the genuinely useful feature requests or minor bugs that are being reported here all the time; why should they be wasting their time over this? /rant -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 Le Chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added CC||[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Comment #221 from Le Chat [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2008-11-20 10:53:27 UTC --- Can I vote against this bug? There are so many useful things developers could be doing to improve the software, I don't see any reason to be wasting time on such a pointless issue. No-one needs dates to be formatted in a particular way - it's a non-problem. If text is to be presented to readers in different ways depending on some option or IP range, then start with different spellings like color/colour, or synonyms like football/soccer. However we don't do that, and we don't do metadata either - just let editors write dates as they want them to appear, linked or unlinked according to principles decided by their particular project, and everyone (once they've got over the recent changes in appearance) will be happy. (Kotniski from en.WP) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 4582] Provide preference-based autoformatting for unlinked dates
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4582 [EMAIL PROTECTED] changed: What|Removed |Added CC||[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are watching all bug changes. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
