[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #28 from James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #20) I read the discussion, and it seems nobody mentioned what i think is the real bug here: we have the edit source link, that drops you back to wikitext editor. The correct behavior for ve should obviously be to drop you to a section edit if the hser entered edit state through an edit section link. Peace. I have created this as bug 49664. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #29 from James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #25) It would be wonderful if the edit source links or icons for sections also showed up inside the Visual Editor. The Visual Editor could treat edit source links or icons as uneditable links. But the link would still work. So people could click edit source links or icons to open source editing of a section. I have created this as bug 49665. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=49664, ||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=49665, ||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=49666 --- Comment #30 from James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #18) I commented at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/ Feedback#Now_unable_to_edit_sections_by_old_method that it would be ideal to have section-edit links for [edit] and [edit source]. ie. Sandbox [edit] replaced with: Sandbox [edit] [edit source] I believe this would prevent a LOT of complaints in the short term, and it would permit a lot of us to continue being active beta testers (section-editing is my most frequent type of edit), that it should be High priority, if at all possible. Thanks. I have created this as bug 49666. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #19 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #17) (In reply to comment #16) Matthew. You are incorrect. There has been a recent change. You're right that the section editing default has changed for people who opted in to VE. However, if you've never changed any editing preferences (most registered users), you are still using the old editor by default. That will change, assuming the random test works well and VE continues to improve. I think Timeshifter means the which will soon be all users part, and I agree that it would be very unfortunate. Quiddity's solution seems like the best one, and IMO should be implemented before the A/B test on en.wp. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 kipod fur.hew...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||fur.hew...@gmail.com --- Comment #20 from kipod fur.hew...@gmail.com --- I read the discussion, and it seems nobody mentioned what i think is the real bug here: we have the edit source link, that drops you back to wikitext editor. The correct behavior for ve should obviously be to drop you to a section edit if the hser entered edit state through an edit section link. Peace. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #21 from Quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #20) I read the discussion, and it seems nobody mentioned what i think is the real bug here: we have the edit source link, that drops you back to wikitext editor. The correct behavior for ve should obviously be to drop you to a section edit if the hser entered edit state through an edit section link. It does do so (in its own way). If you click a section-edit link, it currently enters VE edit-mode, and scrolls down to the section you clicked on, and places the cursor at the beginning of the section-header. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #22 from kipod fur.hew...@gmail.com --- (In reply to comment #21) (In reply to comment #20) I read the discussion, and it seems nobody mentioned what i think is the real bug here: we have the edit source link, that drops you back to wikitext editor. The correct behavior for ve should obviously be to drop you to a section edit if the hser entered edit state through an edit section link. It does do so (in its own way). If you click a section-edit link, it currently enters VE edit-mode, and scrolls down to the section you clicked on, and places the cursor at the beginning of the section-header. no it doesn't. what i meant is that if you click on the edit section link, and then see something that requires wikitext editing and click edit source, you are dropped into old editor _for the whole page_. this means that there is no way to execute the old section edit in the wikitext editor. removing this existing functionality is a regression, and fixing it should be easy. fixing it meas that if you open the editor through a section edit link and then press edit source, you will be in the exact same state as someone who has VE disabled and pressed the edit section link. failing to fix this causes editors to disable VE (i know for a fact that i am not the only one who disabled VE because of this very reason). peace. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #23 from Gerrit Notification Bot gerritad...@wikimedia.org --- Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/68868 (Gerrit Change I13bbb9549c999bb7301bbcf530706a813184425d) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #24 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- I submitted the patch above to show two links side-by-side, in the form of [edit] [edit source], similarly to how the article tabs are done. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #25 from Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com --- I like kipod's ideas (comment 22). I think to more fully support section editing means to make it easy to choose either editor at any time. Let me explain. If the Bartosz patch is implemented (comment 24), or some variation of it, there will be edit and edit source links or icons on every section. It would be wonderful if the edit source links or icons for sections also showed up inside the Visual Editor. The Visual Editor could treat edit source links or icons as uneditable links. But the link would still work. So people could click edit source links or icons to open source editing of a section. People could go to source mode editing at anytime, even from inside the Visual Editor. That would be so convenient and so useful. Later on, this functionality could be extended to anything the Visual Editor can't edit. People could click on templates, tables, etc. inside the Visual Editor and go directly to source mode editing of that section. Or they could right-click templates, tables, etc. to go to a new tab in source mode for that section. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #26 from Bartosz Dziewoński matma@gmail.com --- Timeshifter, this sounds very much like what is described at bug 43133. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #27 from Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com --- Bartosz (comment 26). If I am reading bug 43133 right it sounds way too complicated. What I am suggesting is a simple edit source link to source mode editing of a section. Nothing fancy like floating windows, etc. tied in any way to the Visual Editor. One clicks out of the Visual Editor altogether. This means that edits to the source wikitext in a section are treated the same no matter how one got to that wikitext edit window. This avoids integration conflicts, additional edit conflicts, or anything complicated. Same for clicking on stuff Visual Editor can't edit. One is sent to source mode for the section where that stuff is found. Nothing more. For transcluded templates one still has to go to the bottom of the source-mode edit window for the whole page. That is where the list of transcluded templates is found. It would be nice if one could see such a list at the bottom of source-mode edit windows for sections too. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #14 from Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com --- Many registered editors don't edit enough to know much about preferences. This is a bad idea. There are already many complaints here: [[Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback]] This could cause many editors, who already do not edit much, to edit less because their edits get reverted soon after using Visual Editor. VE messes up many things. I have seen it myself, and so I do not use VE. I have to check a WHOLE-PAGE preview diff for errors it inserts before I save some other minor thing I edited. Minor typos and other things that used to take me a few seconds to fix now take a long time with the Visual Editor. Visual Editor needs to edit SECTIONS, too. Not the whole page. So this fix is not a fix. Visual Editor still does not support section editing. It still only edits the whole page. Worst of all, what was once an interesting option has now become an imposed encumbrance. There is no way to edit in source mode now without effort. Registered editors are forced to use VE. They can only opt-out of VE section editing. They must go here: [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing]] Please return section editing of source wikitext as the default. Make this VE section editing gimmick the option in preferences. Make it opt-in, not opt-out. The WMF does not have anywhere near a consensus or approval or any other type of community process sanction that justifies imposing beta VE. Especially when it is as buggy and beta as it is now. VE was actually an interesting option until this latest forced imposition of beta VE. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #15 from Matthew Flaschen mflasc...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #14) Many registered editors don't edit enough to know much about preferences. ... Editors who haven't changed their preferences are still using the wikitext editor. Worst of all, what was once an interesting option has now become an imposed encumbrance. There is no way to edit in source mode now without effort. Registered editors are forced to use VE. They can only opt-out of VE section editing. They must go here: [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing]] Please return section editing of source wikitext as the default. Make this VE section editing gimmick the option in preferences. Make it opt-in, not opt-out. It is opt-in. So far, the defaults have not changed in any way. You can sign up for a temporary test account and see for yourself. If you don't change any preferences, editing remains wikitext only. And you can change back (and forth) at any time. That means the defaults are not being imposed on anyone. I understand your point. VisualEditor is a work in progress. However, it's a work in progress that's currently 100% opt-in, and James has already said he will consider two section edit links. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #16 from Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com --- Matthew. You are incorrect. There has been a recent change. Please read comment 13 by James Forrester above. Here is the relevant part: as of today, we have switched over to the 'beta' behaviour for VisualEditor in a number of regards, including section edit links - i.e., default behaviour for users with VisualEditor (which will soon be all users) is that section edit links will take you into VisualEditor, scrolled to that section, with the cursor at the start of it. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #17 from Matthew Flaschen mflasc...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #16) Matthew. You are incorrect. There has been a recent change. You're right that the section editing default has changed for people who opted in to VE. However, if you've never changed any editing preferences (most registered users), you are still using the old editor by default. That will change, assuming the random test works well and VE continues to improve. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 Quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||pandiculat...@gmail.com --- Comment #18 from Quiddity pandiculat...@gmail.com --- I commented at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Now_unable_to_edit_sections_by_old_method that it would be ideal to have section-edit links for [edit] and [edit source]. ie. Sandbox [edit] replaced with: Sandbox [edit] [edit source] I believe this would prevent a LOT of complaints in the short term, and it would permit a lot of us to continue being active beta testers (section-editing is my most frequent type of edit), that it should be High priority, if at all possible. Thanks. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #13 from James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #12) OK. Now that I finally get it, and see that everyone (logged in or not) currently gets source editing of sections, let us not remove section editing of source wikitext when VisualEditor is fully implemented! That would make many editors very unhappy. Just to update on this point: as of today, we have switched over to the 'beta' behaviour for VisualEditor in a number of regards, including section edit links - i.e., default behaviour for users with VisualEditor (which will soon be all users) is that section edit links will take you into VisualEditor, scrolled to that section, with the cursor at the start of it. For the mean time (until VisualEditor is out of beta, when it will be much less likely that users will want to use wikitext editor often), there's a user preference (defaulted to off) that will redirect these section edit links back to the wikitext editor; this is in Special:Preferences Editing Beta features. I'm open to seeing if there's a way of giving people two section edit links without being confusing in the medium/long term, but that's a discussion for later. :-) -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||zedlight...@gmail.com --- Comment #8 from Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com --- See discussion here: [[Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback]] and go to the section titled VisualEditor not enabled for section editing. That talk section will end up in the archives eventually. Do an archive search then. Load time will still be an important factor with VisualEditor. That reason alone justifies continuing with section editing. If VisualEditor is enabled for section editing, then it will also be necessary to enable edit source somehow for sections too. So people can choose between the two. Just like at the top of page. If the developers are worried about cluttering up each section with both edit and edit source links, then there needs to be some icon next to edit that will be the link for edit source. The clickable icon will have a popup tooltip saying edit source. I use section editing for almost all my editing, whether in short or long articles. Do you have section editing enabled? If not, you might try it. It speeds up editing immensely for me, and many others. See: [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-editing]] and Enable section editing via [edit] links. It would be better if it were enabled by default for all editors, whether logged in, or not. Many people will still use wikitext source editing. There will long be a need until every single bug is fixed in VisualEditor. I can tell you this from years of experience with the Wikia visual editor. Many, if not most, regular editors on Wikia avoid it due to its continuing bugginess. When using source editing I don't know why anybody would want to wade through paragraphs of irrelevant stuff to get to the paragraph and section one is interested in editing. Especially if you make multiple edits, and use multiple previews. Why wait long periods of time for full-page previews? A section preview is much faster. I have been editing Wikipedia since 2005, and at one point I had forgotten that section editing is not a given for all editors. We are wasting a lot of editors time by not enabling it by default. Since there are fewer and fewer editors we need to make their editing more and more efficient. Anonymous editors do much of the editing on Wikipedia, and many will prefer to edit the source wikitext for all the reasons previously discussed. Many anonymous editors are experienced Wikipedia editors, and will not tolerate having to only use VisualEditor. So never get rid of the option for source editing. Let me repeat: WIKIA, WIKIA, WIKIA. Bugs are seemingly never-ending and ever-growing with visual editors. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #9 from Matthew Flaschen mflasc...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #8)A section preview is much faster. I have been editing Wikipedia since 2005, and at one point I had forgotten that section editing is not a given for all editors. We are wasting a lot of editors time by not enabling it by default. Wikitext section editing is enabled by default. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #10 from Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com --- OK. I see that section editing is currently enabled for anonymous users too on Wikipedia. I am almost always logged in, and so I must have been confused by the preference Enable section editing via [edit] links. I see now that it is about the URLs. See [[Help:Section#Section_editing]]. I would hate to lose section editing of source wikitext if VisualEditor is enabled for section editing. That would be a serious step backwards for the reasons I and others have discussed. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #11 from Matthew Flaschen mflasc...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #10) OK. I see that section editing is currently enabled for anonymous users too on Wikipedia. I am almost always logged in, and so I must have been confused by the preference Enable section editing via [edit] links. That is in fact the preference, but it's checked by default (as well as always on for anons). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #12 from Timeshifter zedlight...@gmail.com --- OK. Now that I finally get it, and see that everyone (logged in or not) currently gets source editing of sections, let us not remove section editing of source wikitext when VisualEditor is fully implemented! That would make many editors very unhappy. I sometimes like to open up a section in a new tab for editing. So I can switch between tabs to alternate between how the section currently looks, and how my preview looks. This also helps me in finding stuff in the wikitext. I can use browser find in both tabs to help me find where I need to edit. This can be very necessary when editing references, tables, navigation boxes, image captions, and other such wikitext. Images that are right-floating, for example, can be difficult to find in the wikitext otherwise. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 Matthew Flaschen mflasc...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added CC||mflasc...@wikimedia.org --- Comment #7 from Matthew Flaschen mflasc...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #6) One of the things I'm pondering is if we should relabel the edit section links to have two links, one to VE and the other to wikitext. Possibly [_edit_ _*_] or somesuch. I think that might be too much clutter when VE rolls out to everyone. But while it's opt-in, it will definitely encourage me to test it, since I use the edit section link a lot. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #6 from James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #5) Err, whoops. Sorry, yeah, completely missed that paragraph. :-) If the default editor behavior is a switch that controls parts of the interface like this (I didn't realize that), is this testable now anywhere? A Labs wiki or something? No; we should do that. One of the things I'm pondering is if we should relabel the edit section links to have two links, one to VE and the other to wikitext. Possibly [_edit_ _*_] or somesuch. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 Mark Holmquist mtrac...@member.fsf.org changed: What|Removed |Added Keywords||javascript CC||mtrac...@member.fsf.org --- Comment #1 from Mark Holmquist mtrac...@member.fsf.org --- Thoughts: It strikes me that this might not be overly difficult - if VE is just using Hn elements to represent sections anyway, then it should be relatively simple to change the edit URL to javascript:, and add some JavaScript events to them that call the VE setup and, once it's done, brings the specified section to the top of the user's screen. I won't mark this as easy, because I don't think it is. I wish we had an intermediate keyword. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 Mark Holmquist mtrac...@member.fsf.org changed: What|Removed |Added Priority|Unprioritized |Low Severity|normal |minor -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429
James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org changed:
What|Removed |Added
Status|NEW |ASSIGNED
Severity|minor |enhancement
--- Comment #2 from James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org ---
(In reply to comment #0)
I don't seem to be able to section edit with VisualEditor.
There are three issues here:
* To edit a section, we would need to get its HTML from Parsoid - but a section
isn't guaranteed to be balanced HTML, for example (commonly-used):
{|
! Foo !! Bar
|-
=== Section 1 ===
|-
| Foo || bar
=== Section 2 ===
|-
| Foo || bar
|}
Coming up with a solution to this is would be a significant piece of
engineering effort for marginal utility.
* The reasons we brought in section-editing originally were two-fold - to skip
past confusing wikitext in other areas to find the item you actually wanted to
edit (not an issue in the context of VisualEditor), and to avoid edit conflicts
using the page-based diffs at the time (not an issue for ~ 7 years since Tim
re-wrote the diff tool).
* Editing by section blocks users from editing other areas at the same time
that the notice flaws in after they've entered editing, for very limited
added-value.
The behaviour in VisualEditor when running as the default editor is for the
edit section links to take you into VE for the entire page, with the view moved
down to the anchor of that section (note, this is not how it appears right now
on the various Wikipedias, but will be once they have the 'beta' enabled).
I'm not convinced that this is a WONTFIX, but I'm similarly not convinced that
we should spend our time fixing this rather than, say, making VisualEditor and
Parsoid work on Wikisource, or other things we could be doing with our limited
resources.
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[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #3 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- There must be a recognition that editing large articles is burdensome and that section editing has (had) _enormous_ value. Even with JavaScript disabled, the parser continues to take a significant amount of time to parse a large article. And while modern browsers on modern hardware don't have as many issues, rendering large articles can also be taxing. VisualEditor adds to this burden by piling on a lot of JavaScript. The idea that wanting to edit only a section of [[GE]] or [[Iraq War]] stems from wanting to skip past confusing wikitext or avoid edit conflicts misses the point, I think. Though I realize that VisualEditor uproots many principles of the current editing workflow/paradigm. Krinkle briefly mentioned an idea where section edit links might load the full VisualEditor form and then jump down to the specific section. This might be an approach to consider. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #4 from James Forrester jforres...@wikimedia.org --- (In reply to comment #3) Krinkle briefly mentioned an idea where section edit links might load the full VisualEditor form and then jump down to the specific section. This might be an approach to consider. I mentioned it too, you know :-) - see: (In reply to comment #2) | The behaviour in VisualEditor when running as the default editor is for the | edit section links to take you into VE for the entire page, with the view | moved down to the anchor of that section (note, this is not how it appears | right now on the various Wikipedias, but will be once they have the 'beta' | enabled). -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 48429] VisualEditor doesn't support section editing
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=48429 --- Comment #5 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com --- (In reply to comment #4) I mentioned it too, you know :-) - see: (In reply to comment #2) | The behaviour in VisualEditor when running as the default editor is for the | edit section links to take you into VE for the entire page, with the view | moved down to the anchor of that section (note, this is not how it appears | right now on the various Wikipedias, but will be once they have the 'beta' | enabled). Err, whoops. Sorry, yeah, completely missed that paragraph. If the default editor behavior is a switch that controls parts of the interface like this (I didn't realize that), is this testable now anywhere? A Labs wiki or something? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
