Re: [Wikidata] Units are live! \o/

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
Nitpicking.. I do not have a Wikipedia account, I have multiple all
together in a SUL account.

When a discussion takes place you effectively kill it by saying: nanana
this is where I will not react and read it. I have a phabricator account
and it is not as convenient as good old mail.

Some insist on Phabricator, some on Meta, Mail, Wikidata.. The point is
that we want that discussion. When you insist on concentrating, you get
situations where you are blamed for the choices you make. Choices that may
be unfortunate. And you will complain: but I told you that the discussion
was at Phabricator
Thanks.
 GerardM

On 20 September 2015 at 21:13, Daniel Kinzler 
wrote:

> Am 20.09.2015 um 20:52 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
> > Hoi,
> > It is certainly one way to exclude many people who might be interested.
>
> Focusing a discussion in one place is a bad thing? I find it rather
> problematic
> if conversations are scattered across several places. It makes it easy to
> miss
> half of it, especially when trying to read up later.
>
> You are welcome to keep this list in sync with the phabricator ticket if
> you
> think it's important. I suggest to make a separate threat with a meaningful
> subject line for that.
>
> BTW: I think you can sign into phabricator using your wikipedia account.
> That
> should allow most interrested people to particupate without having to
> create a
> new account. I'm not quite sure of the details though.
>
> --
> Daniel Kinzler
> Senior Software Developer
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland
> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Units are live! \o/

[Daniel Kinzler]

Am 20.09.2015 um 20:52 schrieb Gerard Meijssen:
> Hoi,
> It is certainly one way to exclude many people who might be interested.

Focusing a discussion in one place is a bad thing? I find it rather problematic
if conversations are scattered across several places. It makes it easy to miss
half of it, especially when trying to read up later.

You are welcome to keep this list in sync with the phabricator ticket if you
think it's important. I suggest to make a separate threat with a meaningful
subject line for that.

BTW: I think you can sign into phabricator using your wikipedia account.  That
should allow most interrested people to particupate without having to create a
new account. I'm not quite sure of the details though.

-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Senior Software Developer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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Re: [Wikidata] Units are live! \o/

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
It is certainly one way to exclude many people who might be interested.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 20 September 2015 at 20:08, Daniel Kinzler 
wrote:

> I replied at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105623. Lets keep the
> discussion
> there.
>
> Am 19.09.2015 um 21:14 schrieb Michael Peel:
> >
> >> On 19 Sep 2015, at 19:16, Daniel Kinzler 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Am 19.09.2015 um 10:27 schrieb Egon Willighagen:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Michael Peel  >>> > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>It seems to assume a default uncertainty on values, though: I just
> added the
> >>>elevation above sea level to:
> >>>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1513315
> >>>just specifying the central value, and it assumes that this value
> is +- 0.1
> >>>km - which isn't a good assumption to make...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Did you mean to write 2.80 km about sea level? Then the error would be
> 0.01 km
> >>>  I am guessing the uncertainty follows the scientific notation of
> the
> >>> number... 2.8 has the numeric uncertainty of (about) +/- 0.1...
> >>>
> >>> That sounds like a reasonable approach to me...
> >>
> >> Yes, the uncertainty follows the scientific convention about
> significant digits.
> >
> > Taking that approach is a *really* bad idea. You can't just assume/make
> up uncertainties!
> >
> > As an example, say you have a length of 100m. Which significant digit do
> you assume is correct? Is this +- 100m, 10m or 1m? What if it's referring
> to the length of a 100m run, where the accuracy could be much higher than
> the significant digit given, e.g. 100m +- 1cm? Or what if it's the size of
> a crater on a distant planet, where it might be 100m+-50m? Or if the actual
> value is 100m +- 3m, but we say that it's +- 1m (which I see is the default
> in this case), which might be believable to readers but very misleading in
> reality?
> >
> >> We are currently thinking about adjusting this a bit, see
> >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105623
> >
> > As thiemowmde says there:
> > "The fact that the parser "guesses" a precision based on basically zero
> information always was and still is wrong. It must default to ±0.
> Everything else is misleading and a source of significant confusion and
> actual errors."
> > ... although perhaps a better approach if possible might be to default
> to -1, or something else indicating the absence of data.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mike
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata
> >
>
>
> --
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> Senior Software Developer
>
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> Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.
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Re: [Wikidata] Units are live! \o/

[Daniel Kinzler]

I replied at https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105623. Lets keep the discussion
there.

Am 19.09.2015 um 21:14 schrieb Michael Peel:
> 
>> On 19 Sep 2015, at 19:16, Daniel Kinzler  wrote:
>>
>> Am 19.09.2015 um 10:27 schrieb Egon Willighagen:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 10:12 PM, Michael Peel >> > wrote:
>>>
>>>It seems to assume a default uncertainty on values, though: I just added 
>>> the
>>>elevation above sea level to:
>>>https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1513315
>>>just specifying the central value, and it assumes that this value is +- 
>>> 0.1
>>>km - which isn't a good assumption to make...
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you mean to write 2.80 km about sea level? Then the error would be 0.01 
>>> km
>>>  I am guessing the uncertainty follows the scientific notation of the
>>> number... 2.8 has the numeric uncertainty of (about) +/- 0.1...
>>>
>>> That sounds like a reasonable approach to me...
>>
>> Yes, the uncertainty follows the scientific convention about significant 
>> digits.
> 
> Taking that approach is a *really* bad idea. You can't just assume/make up 
> uncertainties!
> 
> As an example, say you have a length of 100m. Which significant digit do you 
> assume is correct? Is this +- 100m, 10m or 1m? What if it's referring to the 
> length of a 100m run, where the accuracy could be much higher than the 
> significant digit given, e.g. 100m +- 1cm? Or what if it's the size of a 
> crater on a distant planet, where it might be 100m+-50m? Or if the actual 
> value is 100m +- 3m, but we say that it's +- 1m (which I see is the default 
> in this case), which might be believable to readers but very misleading in 
> reality?
> 
>> We are currently thinking about adjusting this a bit, see
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T105623
> 
> As thiemowmde says there:
> "The fact that the parser "guesses" a precision based on basically zero 
> information always was and still is wrong. It must default to ±0. Everything 
> else is misleading and a source of significant confusion and actual errors."
> ... although perhaps a better approach if possible might be to default to -1, 
> or something else indicating the absence of data.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mike
> 
> 
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-- 
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Wikimedia Deutschland
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Re: [Wikidata] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
My bad.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 20 September 2015 at 14:10, Luca Martinelli 
wrote:

> Il 20/set/2015 14:07, "Stryn"  ha scritto:
> >
> > This thread was about Freenode.
>
> ^ this
>
> Please, let's eventually restart the discussion within the proper thread.
>
> L.
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode

[Luca Martinelli]

Il 20/set/2015 14:07, "Stryn"  ha scritto:
>
> This thread was about Freenode.

^ this

Please, let's eventually restart the discussion within the proper thread.

L.
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Re: [Wikidata] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode

[Stryn]

Freenode is not Freebase, however.
This thread was about Free*node*.

*Stryn*

*Suomenkielisen Wikipedian ylläpitäjä & osoitepaljastaja / Admin and
checkuser on the Finnish Wikipedia*

*Wikidatan ylläpitäjä / Admin on Wikidata*

*Meta-Wikin ylläpitäjä / Admin on Meta-Wiki*
*Ylivalvoja / Steward*

2015-09-20 14:23 GMT+03:00 Gerard Meijssen :

> Hoi,
> No I did not. It is Wikidata where the import of Freebase data is not
> happening.
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
> On 20 September 2015 at 11:06, Yongmin Hong  wrote:
>
>> I suppose you made a mistake with the thread?
>>
>> --
>> revi
>> https://revi.me
>> -- Sent from Android --
>> 2015. 9. 20. 오후 4:22에 "Gerard Meijssen" 님이 작성:
>>
>>> Hoi,
>>> ...
>>>
>>> What is the status of the import of Freebase information into Wikidata.
>>> Why is nothing observable happening. Why is it a black box that is not to
>>> be talked about ?? Why are we suffering from this lack of data that is
>>> arguably of a similar quality of what we have or better ??
>>> Thanks,
>>>  GerardM
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>> From: Pine W 
>>> Date: 20 September 2015 at 06:11
>>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode
>>> To: "wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org" ,
>>> Wikimedia Mailing List 
>>>
>>>
>>> Freenode occasionally purges its databases of "expired nicks, channels
>>> and
>>> accounts". If you have a nick, channel or account that you want to keep
>>> and
>>> haven't used recently, now is a good time to do so. See
>>> https://blog.freenode.net/2015/09/services-database-purge/ for more
>>> info.
>>> Please send any questions to Freenode staff.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>>> 
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Wikidata] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
No I did not. It is Wikidata where the import of Freebase data is not
happening.
Thanks,
 GerardM

On 20 September 2015 at 11:06, Yongmin Hong  wrote:

> I suppose you made a mistake with the thread?
>
> --
> revi
> https://revi.me
> -- Sent from Android --
> 2015. 9. 20. 오후 4:22에 "Gerard Meijssen" 님이 작성:
>
>> Hoi,
>> ...
>>
>> What is the status of the import of Freebase information into Wikidata.
>> Why is nothing observable happening. Why is it a black box that is not to
>> be talked about ?? Why are we suffering from this lack of data that is
>> arguably of a similar quality of what we have or better ??
>> Thanks,
>>  GerardM
>>
>>
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: Pine W 
>> Date: 20 September 2015 at 06:11
>> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode
>> To: "wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org" ,
>> Wikimedia Mailing List 
>>
>>
>> Freenode occasionally purges its databases of "expired nicks, channels and
>> accounts". If you have a nick, channel or account that you want to keep
>> and
>> haven't used recently, now is a good time to do so. See
>> https://blog.freenode.net/2015/09/services-database-purge/ for more info.
>> Please send any questions to Freenode staff.
>>
>> Pine
>> ___
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>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> wikimedi...@lists.wikimedia.org
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>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> 
>>
>>
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Re: [Wikidata] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode

[Yongmin Hong]

I suppose you made a mistake with the thread?

--
revi
https://revi.me
-- Sent from Android --
2015. 9. 20. 오후 4:22에 "Gerard Meijssen" 님이 작성:

> Hoi,
> ...
>
> What is the status of the import of Freebase information into Wikidata.
> Why is nothing observable happening. Why is it a black box that is not to
> be talked about ?? Why are we suffering from this lack of data that is
> arguably of a similar quality of what we have or better ??
> Thanks,
>  GerardM
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Pine W 
> Date: 20 September 2015 at 06:11
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode
> To: "wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org" ,
> Wikimedia Mailing List 
>
>
> Freenode occasionally purges its databases of "expired nicks, channels and
> accounts". If you have a nick, channel or account that you want to keep and
> haven't used recently, now is a good time to do so. See
> https://blog.freenode.net/2015/09/services-database-purge/ for more info.
> Please send any questions to Freenode staff.
>
> Pine
> ___
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>
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[Wikidata] Fwd: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode

[Gerard Meijssen]

Hoi,
...

What is the status of the import of Freebase information into Wikidata. Why
is nothing observable happening. Why is it a black box that is not to be
talked about ?? Why are we suffering from this lack of data that is
arguably of a similar quality of what we have or better ??
Thanks,
 GerardM


-- Forwarded message --
From: Pine W 
Date: 20 September 2015 at 06:11
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Upcoming database purge on Freenode
To: "wikitec...@lists.wikimedia.org" ,
Wikimedia Mailing List 


Freenode occasionally purges its databases of "expired nicks, channels and
accounts". If you have a nick, channel or account that you want to keep and
haven't used recently, now is a good time to do so. See
https://blog.freenode.net/2015/09/services-database-purge/ for more info.
Please send any questions to Freenode staff.

Pine
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