[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Arian_Bozorg]

Arian_Bozorg closed this task as "Resolved".
Arian_Bozorg claimed this task.
Arian_Bozorg added a comment.


  It looks like option 2 is the one we went with,
  
  So, `2016年7月1日` doesn't work, but `2016年7月7日` works (the weekday must be 
correct)
  
  Thanks so much for this :)

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Maintenance_bot]

Maintenance_bot removed a project: Patch-For-Review.

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Aklapper, Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 886920 **merged** by jenkins-bot:
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Let DateFormatParser accept and skip 
redundant day of the week
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/886920

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To: gerritbot
Cc: Lydia_Pintscher, Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Nikki, thiemowmde, Nicolas_Raoul, 
Aklapper, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, 
Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, 
Alter-paule, Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, 
joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, 
Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
Maathavan, _jensen, rosalieper, Neuronton, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a comment.


  In T214002#8691240 , 
@Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE wrote:
  
  > Thiemo mentioned some possible alternatives in the commit message:
  >
  > 1. Stick with what the previous patch did and accept only inputs without a 
day of the week.
  >   - This would accept 1 and reject 2-5.
  
  That option seems not so great to me because according to Wikipedia the most 
common format does include the day of the week explicitly.
  
  > 2. Add an option to the parser similar to the existing "monthNames" option 
and require callers to list all possible names. Only these will be accepted.
  >   - This would accept 1, 2 and 5, and reject 3 and 4.
  > 3. Make an entirely separate parser for Chinese dates.
  >   - Something like this is required, I think, if we want to accept 2 and 
reject 5. Though I think it should be possible to handle this in a way that’s 
not specific to Chinese, but works in any language that contains named days of 
the week in the date format.
  >
  > I think this is a product question (and, IIRC, not one we explicitly 
discussed in yesterday’s bug triage hour): when users input a date with a named 
day of the week, and the day of the week doesn’t match the date (as in 
“2023年3月12日 (月)”), should the date successfully parse (ignoring the named day 
of the week) or not?
  
  I am leaning towards we should parse it in this case and assume that the day 
name is wrong, not the day number.
  
  > IMHO, it’s at least conceivable that users would specify the day of the 
week as an intentional redundancy, and expect the software to check that they 
didn’t make a mistake in either the numeric date or the day of the week. On the 
other hand, I don’t think it’s realistic for us to return a specific error like 
“this date doesn’t match the specified day of the week”; the result would just 
be a parse error, or worse, Wikibase might even fall back to another parser and 
still successfully parse the date: just like it’s already able to parse 
“2001年8月31日”, for instance.

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Aklapper, Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, 
Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, 
Alter-paule, Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, 
joker88john, CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, 
Af420, Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[ReleaseTaggerBot]

ReleaseTaggerBot added a project: MW-1.41-notes (1.41.0-wmf.1; 2023-03-20).

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Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 886919 **merged** by jenkins-bot:
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Make DateFormatParser accept more 
Asian/Chinese date formats
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/886919

TASK DETAIL
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To: gerritbot
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Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, 
Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[thiemowmde]

thiemowmde added a comment.


  > or worse, Wikibase might even fall back to another parser and still 
successfully parse the date […]
  
  … which might be good or bad:
  
  - Unambiguous dates will be parsed just fine by one of the later, more 
relaxed parsers. These will ignore the day of the week anyway. Making an 
earlier parser more strict doesn't mean "2023年3月12日 (月)" will be rejected. We 
would need to change the entire approach to give this guarantee – which I think 
we shouldn't do.
  - We know the final PHP date parser can sometimes produce weird results. It's 
always better to make an earlier parser accept a date when we have enough 
certainty. I think this is the case here. The day of the week at the end of 
"2023年3月12日 (月)" can be wrong for many reasons. It's very unlikely such a 
mismatch means the date is entirely wrong and needs to be rejected, in my 
opinion. And even if, we don't have a good way to tell the user.

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Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, 
Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Nikki]

Nikki added a comment.


  In T214002#8691240 , 
@Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE wrote:
  
  > So the first of the above changes, Make DateFormatParser accept more 
Asian/Chinese date formats 
, 
enables Wikibase to parse dates like “2023年3月12日” in Japanese as 2023-03-12. 
That change seems unproblematic and is good to go, I think.
  >
  > However, the second one, Let DateFormatParser accept and skip redundant day 
of the week 
, is a 
bit trickier. With that change, //all// of the following would parse as 
2023-03-12 in Japanese:
  >
  > 1. 2023年3月12日 – as before
  > 2. 2023年3月12日 (日) – correct weekday (Sunday)
  > 3. 2023年3月12日 (一) – blank weekday
  > 4. 2023年3月12日 (whatever) – nonsense weekday
  > 5. 2023年3月12日 (月) – **different** weekday  (Monday)
  
  That sounds reasonable to me. It seems plausible that the bit after the date 
could sometimes not actually be the weekday (e.g. "the choice we made on 
2023-03-12 (Monday) doesn't work so we need to pick a different day") and I 
would probably be pleased that it extracted the date from the input instead of 
making me delete all the extra text first.
  
  > I think this is a product question (and, IIRC, not one we explicitly 
discussed in yesterday’s bug triage hour): when users input a date with a named 
day of the week, and the day of the week doesn’t match the date (as in 
“2023年3月12日 (月)”), should the date successfully parse (ignoring the named day 
of the week) or not?
  >
  > IMHO, it’s at least conceivable that users would specify the day of the 
week as an intentional redundancy, and expect the software to check that they 
didn’t make a mistake in either the numeric date or the day of the week. On the 
other hand, I don’t think it’s realistic for us to return a specific error like 
“this date doesn’t match the specified day of the week”; the result would just 
be a parse error, or worse, Wikibase might even fall back to another parser and 
still successfully parse the date: just like it’s already able to parse 
“2001年8月31日”, for instance.
  
  I would interpret a parse error in this situation as "we don't support 
including the day of the week" and delete it from the input, leaving just 
"2023年3月12日", so I think it would only make sense to check whether the day of 
the week matches if it also has an error message for that situation.

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Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, 
Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE]

Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE added a comment.


  So the first of the above changes, Make DateFormatParser accept more 
Asian/Chinese date formats 
, 
enables Wikibase to parse dates like “2023年3月12日” in Japanese as 2023-03-12. 
That change seems unproblematic and is good to go, I think.
  
  However, the second one, Let DateFormatParser accept and skip redundant day 
of the week 
, is a 
bit trickier. With that change, //all// of the following would parse as 
2023-03-12 in Japanese:
  
  1. 2023年3月12日 – as before
  2. 2023年3月12日 (日) – correct weekday (Sunday)
  3. 2023年3月12日 (一) – blank weekday
  4. 2023年3月12日 (whatever) – nonsense weekday
  5. 2023年3月12日 (月) – **different** weekday  (Monday)
  
  Thiemo mentioned some possible alternatives in the commit message:
  
  1. Stick with what the previous patch did and accept only inputs without a 
day of the week.
- This would accept 1 and reject 2-5.
  2. Add an option to the parser similar to the existing "monthNames" option 
and require callers to list all possible names. Only these will be accepted.
- This would accept 1, 2 and 5, and reject 3 and 4.
  3. Make an entirely separate parser for Chinese dates.
- Something like this is required, I think, if we want to accept 4 and 
reject 5. Though I think it should be possible to handle this in a way that’s 
not specific to Chinese, but works in any language that contains named days of 
the week in the date format.
  
  I think this is a product question (and, IIRC, not one we explicitly 
discussed in yesterday’s bug triage hour): when users input a date with a named 
day of the week, and the day of the week doesn’t match the date (as in 
“2023年3月12日 (月)”), should the date successfully parse (ignoring the named day 
of the week) or not?
  
  IMHO, it’s at least conceivable that users would specify the day of the week 
as an intentional redundancy, and expect the software to check that they didn’t 
make a mistake in either the numeric date or the day of the week. On the other 
hand, I don’t think it’s realistic for us to return a specific error like “this 
date doesn’t match the specified day of the week”; the result would just be a 
parse error, or worse, Wikibase might even fall back to another parser and 
still successfully parse the date: just like it’s already able to parse 
“2001年8月31日”, for instance.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T214002

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To: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE
Cc: Lucas_Werkmeister_WMDE, Nikki, thiemowmde, Nicolas_Raoul, Aklapper, 
Themindcoder, Adamm71, Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, 
Biggs657, karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, 
Beast1978, ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, 
CucyNoiD, Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, 
Bsandipan, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher triaged this task as "High" priority.

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ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, 
Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Lydia_Pintscher]

Lydia_Pintscher added a project: Wikidata Dev Team.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 886920 had a related patch set uploaded (by Thiemo Kreuz (WMDE); 
author: Thiemo Kreuz (WMDE)):
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Let DateFormatParser accept and skip 
redundant day of the week
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/886920

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T214002

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To: gerritbot
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Jersione, Hellket777, LisafBia6531, Astuthiodit_1, 786, Biggs657, 
karapayneWMDE, Invadibot, maantietaja, Juan90264, Alter-paule, Beast1978, 
ItamarWMDE, Un1tY, Akuckartz, Hook696, Kent7301, joker88john, CucyNoiD, 
Nandana, Gaboe420, Giuliamocci, Cpaulf30, Lahi, Gq86, Af420, Bsandipan, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, Lewizho99, Maathavan, _jensen, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a project: Patch-For-Review.

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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[gerritbot]

gerritbot added a comment.


  Change 886919 had a related patch set uploaded (by Thiemo Kreuz (WMDE); 
author: Thiemo Kreuz (WMDE)):
  
  [mediawiki/extensions/Wikibase@master] Make DateFormatParser accept more 
Asian/Chinese date formats
  
  https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/886919

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T214002

EMAIL PREFERENCES
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To: gerritbot
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Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[Nikki]

Nikki added a comment.


  年 , 月 
 and 日 
 aren't punctuation though, they're 
Chinese characters/words meaning "year", "month" and "day" which are used to 
make the names of years, months and days (e.g. "8月" means "August"), so both 
dates are actually unambiguous.
  
  It's not specific to Japanese either, it's the same across East Asia:
  
  Dates are written the same in `zh` (including `zh-hans`, `zh-hant`, `zh-cn`, 
`zh-hk`, `zh-mo`, `zh-my`, `zh-sg` and `zh-tw`), `gan` (including `gan-hans` 
and `gan-hant`), `hak`, `hsn` and `lzh`. This format is also used 
(untranslated) by `ami`, `ii`, `pwn`, `szy`, `tay`, `trv` and `za`.
  
  `wuu` and `yue` are similar, using "年M月D号" (simplified) and "年M月D號" 
(traditional), with the word 号  
(simplified)/號  (traditional) instead 
of 日.
  
  `ko` (and `ko-kp`) use "년 M월 D일", where 년 
, 월 
 and 일 
 are the hangul forms of 年, 月 and 日.
  
  `cdo` and `nan` are using Latin orthographies and have " nièng M nguŏk D 
hô̤" and "-nî M-goe̍h D-ji̍t" respectively, where nièng and nî are the 
pronunciation of 年, nguŏk and goe̍h are the pronunciation of 月, hô̤ is the 
pronunciation of 號/号 and ji̍t is the pronunciation of 日.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T214002

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: Nikki
Cc: Nikki, thiemowmde, Nicolas_Raoul, Aklapper, Astuthiodit_1, karapayneWMDE, 
Invadibot, maantietaja, ItamarWMDE, Akuckartz, Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, 
GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, 
Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
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[Wikidata-bugs] [Maniphest] T214002: Wikidata web form recognizes Japanese date 2001年8月31日 but not 2016年7月1日

[thiemowmde]

thiemowmde added a comment.


  I can explain this behavior, if it helps. The first date is unambiguous. We 
do have a parser that ignores all punctuation. It checks if it can find 3 
numbers, and if there is only one way these 3 numbers can be mapped to a year, 
month, and day. This works for an input like "2001 8 31", but not "2016 7 1". 
The later can be January 7th or July 1st. The current set of parsers can't know 
and gives up.
  
  One possible solution is to add a new parser especially for Japanese dates.

TASK DETAIL
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T214002

EMAIL PREFERENCES
  https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/settings/panel/emailpreferences/

To: thiemowmde
Cc: thiemowmde, Nicolas_Raoul, Aklapper, Invadibot, maantietaja, Akuckartz, 
Nandana, Lahi, Gq86, GoranSMilovanovic, QZanden, LawExplorer, _jensen, 
rosalieper, Scott_WUaS, Wikidata-bugs, aude, Mbch331
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