[WikiEducator] Re: the power of less
Hi, folks. I just put on wikieducator a help article on editing wiki doing it my favourite way - with a text editor. Its here http://www.wikieducator.org/Help:Editing_using_a_text_editor However, it could use your help in three ways: 1. I run Linux and therefore am not familiar with text editors for windows and Mac (other than ports of Unix editors). These editors should be included. 2. I usually use emacs not vim (please no flame wars). So the section on vim probably could be improved 3. If you favorite editor is not listed, please add it. Happy editing, John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: the power of less
John, This is an excellent tutorial! It will really help those who are committed to a large projects using wikis, or any other mark-up language for that matter. I think it's useful mostly to people who already remember a large chunk of the syntax by heart, though. For those who do not remember the wiki syntax yet, learning will be delayed by removing the immediate feedback loop of clicking preview - unless I missed some easy way for feedback loops. So, this tutorial is an intermediate step, for those already in some relatively involved wiki-projects. The power of less conversation applies mostly to beginners, in my mind - people not yet committed to using wikis, and trying to check it all out and decide. Thanks again for the tutorial - I will definitely use it. -- Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 6:25 AM, john stampe jwsta...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi, folks. I just put on wikieducator a help article on editing wiki doing it my favourite way - with a text editor. Its here http://www.wikieducator.org/Help:Editing_using_a_text_editor However, it could use your help in three ways: 1. I run Linux and therefore am not familiar with text editors for windows and Mac (other than ports of Unix editors). These editors should be included. 2. I usually use emacs not vim (please no flame wars). So the section on vim probably could be improved 3. If you favorite editor is not listed, please add it. Happy editing, John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: the power of less
There is a fun presentation about game mechanics in serious applications, called Building a princess saving app: http://lostgarden.com/Mixing_Games_and_Applications.pdf It has learning curves for typical games and apps. According to the author, the learning curve for a typical application is roughly exponential. Here is a quote: Notice it takes a while to build up competent skills in a traditional app. There is so much complexity that comes from feature piled on top of feature, it is easy to get confused. You can spend 12 months gaining a basic level of competence in Photoshop. But the good news is that there is a life time worth of depth. This initial period of learning is very frustrating. You lose massive numbers of users. I took 3 years to learn Photoshop on my own. The basic metaphor just made no sense to me when I used the trial. In this modern world where apps need people to pick them, up try them out and fall in love, this long learning curve is often the kiss of death for a new company. Then it compares other learning curves - web 2.0 little apps, web 2.0 big apps, and games. I find it so fascinating I printed it out and put it on my wall of awesome. We have to face the fact that for most people, at this point in history, learning wiki syntax from scratch to create their own simple pages is the kiss of death for participation. What WE is doing with classes is changing this fact, because people are willing to go to greater lengths of learning in a class. People already expect exponential learning curves in classes - they expect to plow through tough, non-intuitive content. However, consider this: I can invite a random person into a Google Doc and they never complain about their inability to contribute. In fact, I typically observe them being active as soon as they register. This is not a picture I see inviting people to non-WYSIWYG pages. Simple is also social. For example, (simple)=(frequently used): People use applications like MS Word for text editing because these programs are already widespread. They probably receive Word documents in email and observe everybody else use it. Everybody drives in the USA, so it's simple, but I remember eighties in Russia when driving was considered very complex, courses took forever, and women in general were considered all but incapable of learning the skill. There used to be typists, and typing was considered a complex skill worthy of being a profession. Now babies start learning to type before they start learning to walk. My own conclusion: I only work with WYSIWYG wikies for projects I organize. I join other people's projects involving wiki syntax, since I already know it. I feel shy, given the years of courses in programming and CS, to confess I had issues and unpleasantness learning wiki syntax, but it's true. I see no reason to teach people wiki syntax until they want to do things beyond typing words and making them bold or italic - things like creating templates or working with includes. Non-programmers in general tend to select the highest-order, most object-oriented tools they can lay their hands on that still fulfills their goals. So, if I want people to learn wiki syntax, my projects better demand some actions beyond typing words, making headings, inserting pictures. -- Cheers, MariaD Make math your own, to make your own math. http://www.naturalmath.com social math site http://www.phenixsolutions.com empowering our innovations On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 5:59 AM, john stampe jwsta...@yahoo.com wrote: The problem that I have with people who talk about the power of less or WYSIWYG is how ironic the statements are if you look at real life. In another thread somebody mentioned that they had problems getting unversity lecturers to learn wiki syntax. Yet I have seen the same type of people going to the library or bookstore to get a book on how to use MS Word, despite the fact they will use only a small number of its features. Many people use word processors to write simple text. Yet it would be much simpler to use a text editor - where you can concentrate on the important part, what you say. Or for another example, take Liquid Threads. How many complaints have their been in this mailing list? (Indeed, the was the first topic I saw after I joined the list) It maybe simple, but does it work? In conclusion, my postition could be summed up by Einsteins comment: everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. From: Scott Newson scott.g.new...@gmail.com To: wikieducator@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 12:12:37 PM Subject: [WikiEducator] Re: the power of less The thing with technology is that 'less' is very subjective. Tools that lessen the cognitive load on the user often have a lot of though put into them by their designers who consider them more complex than a similar tool that requires a lot from the user. With the example of a WYSIWYG editor, those of us who
[WikiEducator] Re: the power of less
The problem that I have with people who talk about the power of less or WYSIWYG is how ironic the statements are if you look at real life. In another thread somebody mentioned that they had problems getting unversity lecturers to learn wiki syntax. Yet I have seen the same type of people going to the library or bookstore to get a book on how to use MS Word, despite the fact they will use only a small number of its features. Many people use word processors to write simple text. Yet it would be much simpler to use a text editor - where you can concentrate on the important part, what you say. Or for another example, take Liquid Threads. How many complaints have their been in this mailing list? (Indeed, the was the first topic I saw after I joined the list) It maybe simple, but does it work? In conclusion, my postition could be summed up by Einsteins comment: everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler. From: Scott Newson scott.g.new...@gmail.com To: wikieducator@googlegroups.com Sent: Monday, April 6, 2009 12:12:37 PM Subject: [WikiEducator] Re: the power of less The thing with technology is that 'less' is very subjective. Tools that lessen the cognitive load on the user often have a lot of though put into them by their designers who consider them more complex than a similar tool that requires a lot from the user. With the example of a WYSIWYG editor, those of us who are used to working with the normal wiki markup language and who know that it takes an 'extra' extension to make the WYSIWYG happen might think of such a change as 'more', but for someone who is just used to using normal document editors being able to make changes in a familiar way means that there is less of a transition to make. From the article you referenced: I see more people trying to get the ideas that already exist right. This sort of comment seems to support the idea of working to make existing activities easier (ie WYSIWYG editors, easy interface). I'm actually rather confused now as to what you are trying to say... I originally thought that you were concerned that general infatuation with shiny new tools would lead to an overly complex environment, and that having less of these extensions would lead to a simpler/better environment... but now I'm not sure. Could you expand a bit? I personally like to be able to explore and figure out how things work, especially in computers, so I often end up doing things in a 'less is more' way. But I still like being able to make use of abstractions in areas that I don't understand yet. For example, I'd hate to have to hand code an email to do all the things an email does to get from me to you every time I want to say hi. Scott On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 12:35 AM, NELLIE DEUTSCH nellie.muller.deut...@gmail.com wrote: Randy, The power of less may make the digital natives powerless. :) The next generation we need to consider is not ours. We should empower the next generation to be independent thinkers who will be able to design tools that cater to their needs not ours. Are we not merely making a copy of ourlives with new tools: http://socialcpr.blogspot.com/2009/03/new-tool-for-doing-it-old-school.html Warm wishes, Nellie Deutsch Doctoral Student Educational Leadership Curriculum and Instruction http://www.wikieducator.org/EL4C21 http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Nelliemuller skype:nelliedeutschmuller On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Randy Fisher wikira...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Just reflecting on our wish that WikiEducator improve its functionality - WYSYIWG, Liquid Threads, nicer interface, easier account registration, and I come across this interesting article on BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7978170.stm Enjoy! - Randy -- Randy Fisher * Change Management Performance * Organization Development * Stakeholder Engagement Community-Building * Coaching Facilitation * Open Source Open Education/e-Learning + 1 604.684.2275 (Pacific Time) wikira...@gmail.com http://www.wikieducator.org - Member, WikiEducator Community Council http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Randyfisher * Can You Do the Wiki-Wiki? http://www.wikieducator.org/Wiki_Wiki Skype: wikirandy Open Education is a Sustainable Renewable Resource. * For faster and greater ROI, please encourage Philanthropists to require that any content written under their grants / funding, be released as free and open source content. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: the power of less
Randy, The power of less may make the digital natives powerless. :) The next generation we need to consider is not ours. We should empower the next generation to be independent thinkers who will be able to design tools that cater to their needs not ours. Are we not merely making a copy of ourlives with new tools: http://socialcpr.blogspot.com/2009/03/new-tool-for-doing-it-old-school.html Warm wishes, Nellie Deutsch Doctoral Student Educational Leadership Curriculum and Instruction http://www.wikieducator.org/EL4C21 http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Nelliemuller skype:nelliedeutschmuller On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Randy Fisher wikira...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Just reflecting on our wish that WikiEducator improve its functionality - WYSYIWG, Liquid Threads, nicer interface, easier account registration, and I come across this interesting article on BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7978170.stm Enjoy! - Randy -- Randy Fisher * Change Management Performance * Organization Development * Stakeholder Engagement Community-Building * Coaching Facilitation * Open Source Open Education/e-Learning + 1 604.684.2275 (Pacific Time) wikira...@gmail.com http://www.wikieducator.org - Member, WikiEducator Community Council http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Randyfisher * Can You Do the Wiki-Wiki? http://www.wikieducator.org/Wiki_Wiki Skype: wikirandy Open Education is a Sustainable Renewable Resource. * For faster and greater ROI, please encourage Philanthropists to require that any content written under their grants / funding, be released as free and open source content. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[WikiEducator] Re: the power of less
The thing with technology is that 'less' is very subjective. Tools that lessen the cognitive load on the user often have a lot of though put into them by their designers who consider them more complex than a similar tool that requires a lot from the user. With the example of a WYSIWYG editor, those of us who are used to working with the normal wiki markup language and who know that it takes an 'extra' extension to make the WYSIWYG happen might think of such a change as 'more', but for someone who is just used to using normal document editors being able to make changes in a familiar way means that there is less of a transition to make. From the article you referenced: I see more people trying to get the ideas that already exist right. This sort of comment seems to support the idea of working to make existing activities easier (ie WYSIWYG editors, easy interface). I'm actually rather confused now as to what you are trying to say... I originally thought that you were concerned that general infatuation with shiny new tools would lead to an overly complex environment, and that having less of these extensions would lead to a simpler/better environment... but now I'm not sure. Could you expand a bit? I personally like to be able to explore and figure out how things work, especially in computers, so I often end up doing things in a 'less is more' way. But I still like being able to make use of abstractions in areas that I don't understand yet. For example, I'd hate to have to hand code an email to do all the things an email does to get from me to you every time I want to say hi. Scott On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 12:35 AM, NELLIE DEUTSCH nellie.muller.deut...@gmail.com wrote: Randy, The power of less may make the digital natives powerless. :) The next generation we need to consider is not ours. We should empower the next generation to be independent thinkers who will be able to design tools that cater to their needs not ours. Are we not merely making a copy of ourlives with new tools: http://socialcpr.blogspot.com/2009/03/new-tool-for-doing-it-old-school.html Warm wishes, Nellie Deutsch Doctoral Student Educational Leadership Curriculum and Instruction http://www.wikieducator.org/EL4C21 http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Nelliemuller skype:nelliedeutschmuller On Sat, Apr 4, 2009 at 8:29 PM, Randy Fisher wikira...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, Just reflecting on our wish that WikiEducator improve its functionality - WYSYIWG, Liquid Threads, nicer interface, easier account registration, and I come across this interesting article on BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7978170.stm Enjoy! - Randy -- Randy Fisher * Change Management Performance * Organization Development * Stakeholder Engagement Community-Building * Coaching Facilitation * Open Source Open Education/e-Learning + 1 604.684.2275 (Pacific Time) wikira...@gmail.com http://www.wikieducator.org - Member, WikiEducator Community Council http://www.wikieducator.org/User:Randyfisher * Can You Do the Wiki-Wiki? http://www.wikieducator.org/Wiki_Wiki Skype: wikirandy Open Education is a Sustainable Renewable Resource. * For faster and greater ROI, please encourage Philanthropists to require that any content written under their grants / funding, be released as free and open source content. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups WikiEducator group. To visit wikieducator: http://www.wikieducator.org To visit the discussion forum: http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator To post to this group, send email to wikieducator@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to wikieducator-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
