date:20170623

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Gnangarra

I would think that once a location is chosen the first step would be for
the WMF to immediately open up discussions with the relevant Authority to
ensure that scholarships recipients have sufficient paperwork and time to
get approval as well as any assurances or processing options can be put in
place.  If there is a limit put on the number of attendee then at least
that can be in the open so people know and if people already have visa that
enable them to attend they could at least present this as part of the
application.

Ideally an Affiliate would be the best situated to do such things but  this
then raises issues about the status of User Groups which are designed not
to have the bureaucracy of chapters and therefore wont necessarily have the
same legal standing to support visa applications or even advocate for them.



On 24 June 2017 at 10:19, Risker  wrote:

> Writing as a Canadian, I can only apologize for the difficulty so many of
> you are having in obtaining visas to this country.  I am really looking
> forward to welcoming many of you to the beautiful city of Montreal, and I
> am devastated to read that so many people seem to be being turned down for
> visas.
>
> The decisions for locations for Wikimania are made about two years in
> advance - which is actually pretty late for large international conferences
> (most international organizations make these decisions 3-4 years in
> advance).  But even during the course of two years, some circumstances can
> change significantly.  I am aware that Canada has become more stringent in
> handing out visas, as have many other countries in the past 2 years -
> something that couldn't really be anticipated at the time the decision was
> made.  I don't have any good advice for any of you on this - while I live
> in Canada, I'm not a member of either the Wikimania planning group or
> Wikimania Canada, and I have no contacts in the federal government that
> would be helpful in getting visas.
>
> I am hoping that some magic can happen for you that will enable you to
> come to Canada.  We will all be losing the value of your company, and you
> will be missed.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
> On 23 June 2017 at 21:28, Kerry Raymond  wrote:
>
>> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
>> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
>> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>>
>> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
>> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
>> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
>> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland 
>> wrote:
>>
>> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
>> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
>> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>>
>> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
>> countries.
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
>> User:Amqui
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>>
>>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>>
 I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
 respective countries.

 Jayanta Nath

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>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jean-Philippe Béland
>>
>> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
>> , chapitre national
>> soutenant Wikipédia
>> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
>> , national chapter
>> supporting Wikipedia
>> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Risker

Writing as a Canadian, I can only apologize for the difficulty so many of
you are having in obtaining visas to this country.  I am really looking
forward to welcoming many of you to the beautiful city of Montreal, and I
am devastated to read that so many people seem to be being turned down for
visas.

The decisions for locations for Wikimania are made about two years in
advance - which is actually pretty late for large international conferences
(most international organizations make these decisions 3-4 years in
advance).  But even during the course of two years, some circumstances can
change significantly.  I am aware that Canada has become more stringent in
handing out visas, as have many other countries in the past 2 years -
something that couldn't really be anticipated at the time the decision was
made.  I don't have any good advice for any of you on this - while I live
in Canada, I'm not a member of either the Wikimania planning group or
Wikimania Canada, and I have no contacts in the federal government that
would be helpful in getting visas.

I am hoping that some magic can happen for you that will enable you to come
to Canada.  We will all be losing the value of your company, and you will
be missed.

Risker/Anne

On 23 June 2017 at 21:28, Kerry Raymond  wrote:

> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>
> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland 
> wrote:
>
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> , chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> , national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jayanta Nath

So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?

++   this is the big issue.

On 24-Jun-2017 6:58 AM, "Kerry Raymond"  wrote:

> So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R
> to grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P
> thinks that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?
>
> I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely
> compelling reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and
> it is not clear to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the
> real life identity of the user they want to attend in any case.
>
> Kerry
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland 
> wrote:
>
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> , chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> , national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Kerry Raymond

So an organisation P in country Q writes a letter of support to country R to 
grant a visa to person S from country T on the basis that organization P thinks 
that person S is actually the pseudonymous user U?

I am not surprised immigration officials don't find this an entirely compelling 
reason to grant a visa. WMF is not a Canadian organization, and it is not clear 
to me that WMF is actually in a position to confirm the real life identity of 
the user they want to attend in any case.

Kerry 

Sent from my iPad

> On 24 Jun 2017, at 12:19 am, Jean-Philippe Béland  
> wrote:
> 
> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in 
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not 
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
> 
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of 
> countries.
> 
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S  wrote:
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I 
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And 
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country. 
>> 
>>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of 
>>> respective countries. 
>>> 
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> 
>   Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada, chapitre national soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada, national chapter supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Mohamed Ibrahim

I believe this was not the best decision to make, I can understand handling
recipients' financials and some other logistics through WMF. But clearly
visas should have been handled by some entity in Canada. We ran into some
problems in 2008 (limited number as Egypt is a touristic country in the
first place), but the library of Alexandria was of a great help to issue
letters of invitation.
Sometimes it's not even up to the organizing committee. I was invited to
Taiwan, 2007 and couldn't go due to the diplomatic ties complications.
Overall, I don't mind having wikimanias in Canada and the US but I hope
that the visa application process for attendees would be given high
priority during bidding time.

Cheers,
Mido

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 17:20, Jean-Philippe Béland 
wrote:

> As per WMF directions, Wikimedia Canada was not involved in anything in
> relations to visas. The WMF is taking care of that themselves. They did not
> ask us to write anything to embassies.
>
> I am sorry that Canada has strict rules on visa requirements for a lot of
> countries.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 11:03 PM, Ranjith S 
> wrote:
>
>> My visa is also got rejected. So I am not coming to Canada this year. I
>> think Canada is a bad place for Wikimania due to their strict rules. And
>> thinking that is not a tourist friendly country.
>>
>> On 23-Jun-2017 12:52 AM, "Jayanta Nath"  wrote:
>>
>>> I think Wikimedia Canada not send any intimation to their Embassy of
>>> respective countries.
>>>
>>> Jayanta Nath
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
>
> [image: Wikimedia Canada] Vice-président — Wikimédia Canada
> , chapitre national
> soutenant Wikipédia
> Vice president — Wikimedia Canada
> , national chapter
> supporting Wikipedia
> 535 avenue Viger Est, Montréal (Québec)  H2L 2P3,jpbel...@wikimedia.ca
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
-- 
Mido
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Felix Nartey

A lot of great suggestions and comments have been shared on here, but just
to add unto that.

One thing I know for sure that works is having an invitation letter from
say the WMF and the Local Organising Organisation. It is also very useful
to often include mayors of towns, states and cities where the conferences
will happen.

This is one the very reasons why ICANN conferences are usually successful
in terms of attendance, you get these two letters and an endorsement from
say a mayor and that carries a lot of weight. I know this was also done for
Wikimania Esino Lario and this could have accounted for its, low rejection
rates.

Cheers,

On Sat, Jun 24, 2017 at 12:00 AM, Ellie Young  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
> wrote:
>
>> I have a few comments:
>> 1)
>> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
>> Jean-Philippe said:
>> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
>> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
>> chapter in doing this."
>> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
>> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
>> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
>> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
>> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>>
>
> Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
> the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
> truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
> agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
> recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course  South Africa coming up.
>
> 2)
>> Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
>> aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
>> "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
>> country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
>> service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
>> government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
>> an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
>> conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
>> a few times and they are really very helpful.
>>
>
> The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for
> trouble-shooting to no avail.   I spent many hours and it wasn't possible.
> A service agency was not a possibility.  They have a new system and I have
> to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people.They follow very
> much the model of the United States.It is the major reason   why we
> don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries.  ( The last
> one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. )   For the scholarship program:  we had
> relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance...
> the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told
> it was high);  the next was London (9);  Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong
> Kong - 1.
>
> As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot
> of people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a
> timely manner.
>
> And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important
> criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.
>
>
>
> 3)
>> The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
>> recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
>> countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
>> can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
>> expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
>> embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
>> pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
>>
>
> We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is
> usually sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that
> time).  Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in
> getting all the paperwork and information in process shortly after that.
> We set up a system this year that required people to send us proof that
> they had filed by May 15.   If they need paper, we send paper.   We even
> support people having to travel to other countries to apply.Even so, it
> is often the individual embassies that are big part of the problem in
> securing approval.   
>
>>
>>
>> Gabriel
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
>>> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Ellie Young

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 2:10 PM, Gabriel Thullen 
wrote:

> I have a few comments:
> 1)
> We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
> Jean-Philippe said:
> "A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
> WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
> chapter in doing this."
> The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
> so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
> accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
> Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
> local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
>

Let us just say that there was confusion and communication issues with
the original proposers to host.  The Steering Committee (including yours
truly) thought that Wikimedia Canada was  involved.I think everyone can
agree how important it is for having the local chapters involved--- most
recently Esino Lario and Mexico City and of course  South Africa coming up.

2)
> Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
> aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
> "visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
> country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
> service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
> government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
> an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
> conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
> a few times and they are really very helpful.
>

The Foundation tried very hard to set something up with Canada for
trouble-shooting to no avail.   I spent many hours and it wasn't possible.
A service agency was not a possibility.  They have a new system and I have
to admit it is a confusing process for a lot of people.They follow very
much the model of the United States.It is the major reason   why we
don't regularly hold Wikimanias in either of these countries.  ( The last
one was 2012 in Washington, D.C. )   For the scholarship program:  we had
relatively few people denied Visas when you look at the total attendance...
the highest number was in D.C (I don't have the exact number but was told
it was high);  the next was London (9);  Italy (2); Mexico City - 0; Hong
Kong - 1.

As others have indicated in this thread, there is a big effort with alot of
people involved in trying to delivery everything that is needed in a timely
manner.

And yes, Visa friendliness along with security/safety issues are important
criteria when deciding where to hold future Wikimania's.

3)
> The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
> recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
> countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
> can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
> expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
> embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
> pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...
>

We notified people end of April which gives them 3 months which is usually
sufficient (some countries won't accept applications before that time).
Most of our scholarship recipients have been very diligent in getting all
the paperwork and information in process shortly after that.   We set up a
system this year that required people to send us proof that they had filed
by May 15.   If they need paper, we send paper.   We even support people
having to travel to other countries to apply.Even so, it is often the
individual embassies that are big part of the problem in securing approval.

>
>
> Gabriel
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive  wrote:
>
>> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
>> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
>> that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
>>
>> I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
>> Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
>> visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
>> follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
>> may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
>> provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
>> Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
>> for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
>> USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
>> and attend Wikimania Mexico.
>>
>> What exactly I point

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Gabriel Thullen

I have a few comments:
1)
We do not know how the Montreal venue was selected for Wikimania.
Jean-Philippe said:
"A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to
WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the
chapter in doing this."
The situation there is obviously more complicated than what is being said
so I will not dwell on that. What disturbs me is that the Montreal bid was
accepted in absence of the local chapter support. That is not acceptable.
Looking back on the success of the Esino Lario event, I believe that strong
local chapter and volunteer support is vital for a Wikimania event.
2)
Wikimania should be a world conference of Wikimedians. One very important
aspect of a bid should be visa help. Some countries are shall we say
"visa-friendly" and some countries are not. If the event is to be held in a
country where it is difficult to obtain visas, the organizers must set up a
service to facilitate the visa process and obtain help from their local
government authorities. In Geneva, for example, the government has set up
an office to help foreign delegates get visas for international
conferences, both UN conferences and NGO conferences. I have met with them
a few times and they are really very helpful.
3)
The scholarships probably need to be awarded a bit sooner so that
recipients have enough time to go through the whole visa procedure. Most
countries require proof that the visitor has a return flight and that he
can cover his food and lodging expenses as well as his emergency medical
expenses. It has also been pointed out in this discussion that some
embassies are quite fond of old fashioned paper. That means snail mail,
pony express and all that. I works fine, it just takes time...

Gabriel

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 8:45 PM, Nurunnaby Hasive  wrote:

> Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
> depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
> that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!
>
> I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
> Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
> visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
> follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
> may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
> provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
> Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
> for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
> USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
> and attend Wikimania Mexico.
>
> What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
> experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
> Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
> may help to get visa easily.
>
> Hasive
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
> jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:
>
>> I suggest you direct your questions to vi...@wikimedia.org. Those
>> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
>> than on this mailing list I think.
>>
>> JP
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
>>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jayanta
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)*
> User: Hasive  |
> GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752
> 
> Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia
> 
> Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh 
> fb.com/Hasive  | @nhasive
>  | www.nhasive.com
>
> ___
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> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Nurunnaby Hasive

Sorry to know that visa rejection news. As my thought visa process fully
depends on the embassy. It's not guaranteed any chapter even WMF to ensure
that If they provide invitation letter that means anyone got a visa!

I may share my last Wikimania Mexico experience at this point. Mexico
Embassy not available in Bangladesh and If we need Mexico visa we need to
visit India. But It's not good for me to go India for a visa so that I
follow different ways. I informed that If I have a valid USA visa then I
may enter Mexico. So I go to USA embassy and I submit all documents
provided by Wikimedia Mexico. I am lucky enough I got USA visa and attend
Wikimania Mexico. In the same time, one of my fellow Wikipedian go to India
for Mexico visa and got rejected. After back I suggest him to apply for the
USA via using same documents and submits. And finally, we both got USA visa
and attend Wikimania Mexico.

What exactly I point that, In my many International conferences attend
experience I see, Visa processing fully depend on the particular embassy.
Its totally depend on them if they provide visa or not. But the documents
may help to get visa easily.

Hasive

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 11:59 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland <
jpbel...@wikimedia.ca> wrote:

> I suggest you direct your questions to vi...@wikimedia.org. Those
> requests were managed by an international team. You will get better answers
> than on this mailing list I think.
>
> JP
>
> On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
>> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
>> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
>> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
>> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
>> invitation from hosting countries.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jayanta
>> ___
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>

-- 
*Nurunnaby Chowdhury (Hasive) **:: **নুরুন্নবী চৌধুরী (হাছিব)*
User: Hasive  |
GSM/WhatsApp/Viber: +8801712754752

Administrator | Bengali Wikipedia 
Board Member | Wikimedia Bangladesh 
fb.com/Hasive  | @nhasive
 | www.nhasive.com
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jean-Philippe Béland

I suggest you direct your questions to vi...@wikimedia.org. Those requests
were managed by an international team. You will get better answers than on
this mailing list I think.

JP

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 12:07 PM Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Ilario valdelli

Interesting.

You are right and you don't have to blame and there is no sense to 
excuse the current rejection of visas.

Instead of speaking always of a division Global North and Global South 
there should be a support for your action to save an important event 
like Wikimania.

Kind regards

On 23/06/2017 16:24, Jean-Philippe Béland wrote:
Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in 
Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal 
Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have 
Wikimania in Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in 
doing this. As a chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right 
now to ensure a smooth conference, but I don't think it is fair to 
blame the chapter for not doing this.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
User:Amqui

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk > wrote:

I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year
over year, so that we know in comparison?

There are of course many factors that go into venue selection -
one of them is visa (another is security, political stability
etc). The countries that I remember going relatively smoothly were
the ones where the organizers sought a collaboration with the
foreign affairs of their country, to get some help. I don't know
if Wikimedia Canada was able to accomplish that. But it does mean
that a general bad reputation is not necessarily a bad rejection
rate for this particular conference. (if memory serves me well,
WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)

Lodewijk

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey > wrote:

This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more
seriously. Similar challenges were faced by participants from
the Global South selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto
early this year.

This should inform future selection for all conference venues
as it allows for poor representation of the Global South at
international conferences.

Cheers,

On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra
> wrote:

These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that
have occurred firstly with Montreal and next year with
middle eastern attendees to Cape Town .  Acknowledging
that the change was because of the amount effort put in by
unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing
that some things need to be opened for community
discussion before decisions are made.

 That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants
to first obtain a visa before being confirmed for the
scholarships in the future. Perth/Australia is another
place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been a big issue.

On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs > wrote:

That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok,
Thailand, for 2019 - apart  from its extremely
tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost, while
being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible
by  direct  flights from most  parts of the world.
Almost  everyone can enter the country  for  at  least
 15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes it
difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in
the country  on the pretext  of being  tourists.

It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this
will open up the possibility to some refused
scholarship applications.

Kudpung.

On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal
> wrote:

Hi,

The main topic of discussion among the scholarship
recipients from global south this month is the high
visa rejection rate by Canadian embassies from these
countries.

This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from
Bengali community, 4 from India and 3 from
Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
from Indian part of the communities got their visa
rejected, others are waiting. Although I am hoping
for the best for all the scholarship recipients, but
may be news of more rejections are coming soon.

Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly
country, and

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Ranjith S

Hai,

My thought is - at first Canada is a tough country to get VISA for people
from Asia, Africa and other 3rd world countries. They like only people with
USA,UK Visa. Then the invitation problem it was from USA. No mention about
an organisation in Canada. Third the Canadian embassy is reject more visas
than accepting them from all the third world countries. So Canada is a very
bad choice for an international conference like Wikimania. Also Other
strict VISA Rule countries like USA, UK, China, Australia etc. Seeking some
friendly countries are good for better participation. My rejection reason
was current economic conditions and family ties. (I submitted my marriage
certificate and bank statement for that). After all we are staying in
Canada for a week and WMF is sponsoring us. But they still saying the
economic condition is no right.

Regards,

*Ranjith Siji*
Smashing Web
www.smashingweb.info 

Chat Google Talk: ranjith.sajeev Skype: ranjith.sajeev

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 10:37 PM, Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Lodewijk

Hi Jayanta,

please be careful to make judgement calls without knowing all the facts.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 7:07 PM, Jayanta Nath  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA
> invitation? In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada,
> otherwise it would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation
> comes from USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my
> knowledge in every year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their
> invitation from hosting countries.
>
> Regards,
> Jayanta
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jayanta Nath

Hi,

I don't understand that how WMCA directed by WMF about the VISA invitation?
In visa application, there must have an invitation for Canada, otherwise it
would reject. We are applying Visa to Canada, but invitation comes from
USA. This is a foolish decision made by WMF.  As per my knowledge in every
year, every visa applicant for Wikimania, got their invitation from hosting
countries.

Regards,
Jayanta
___
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Lodewijk

Hi Jean-Philippe,

just to be clear: I'm not trying to blame WMCA for anything. 'being able to
accomplish that' includes having the expertise and manpower. It would be
great if you could help with visa issues, but given the situation, that is
just not always possible.

Lodewijk

On Fri, Jun 23, 2017 at 4:24 PM, Jean-Philippe Béland  wrote:

> Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in
> Montreal, so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal
> Committee", now defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in
> Montreal and they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a
> chapter, we are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth
> conference, but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing
> this.
>
> Jean-Philippe Béland
> Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
> User:Amqui
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk 
> wrote:
>
>> I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
>> year, so that we know in comparison?
>>
>> There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
>> them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries
>> that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the
>> organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their
>> country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to
>> accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not
>> necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory
>> serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey  wrote:
>>
>>> This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
>>> Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
>>> selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
>>>
>>> This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it
>>> allows for poor representation of the Global South at international
>>> conferences.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>>>
 These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
 firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
 Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
 in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
 things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
 made.

  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first
 obtain a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
 Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
 a big issue.

 On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:

> That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for
> 2019 - apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low
> cost, while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by
>  direct  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter
> the country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only
> makes it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the 
> country
>  on the pretext  of being  tourists.
>
> It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
> possibility to some refused scholarship applications.
>
> Kudpung.
>
> On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
> global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
> embassies from these countries.
>
> This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
> from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship 
> recipients
> from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are
> waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship
> recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.
>
> Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
> those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
> for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
> presented.
>
> Best wishes,
> Bodhisattwa
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> ___
> Wikimania-l mailing list
>

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

2017-06-23 Thread Jean-Philippe Béland

Wikimedia Canada was not the requester behind having Wikimania in Montreal,
so it cannot be blamed for that. A "Wikimania Montreal Committee", now
defunct, was behind the request to WMF to have Wikimania in Montreal and
they did not coordinate with the chapter in doing this. As a chapter, we
are picking up some of the slack right now to ensure a smooth conference,
but I don't think it is fair to blame the chapter for not doing this.

Jean-Philippe Béland
Vice President, Wikimedia Canada
User:Amqui


On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 6:57 AM, Lodewijk 
wrote:

> I wonder, do we keep track of the number of visa rejections year over
> year, so that we know in comparison?
>
> There are of course many factors that go into venue selection - one of
> them is visa (another is security, political stability etc). The countries
> that I remember going relatively smoothly were the ones where the
> organizers sought a collaboration with the foreign affairs of their
> country, to get some help. I don't know if Wikimedia Canada was able to
> accomplish that. But it does mean that a general bad reputation is not
> necessarily a bad rejection rate for this particular conference. (if memory
> serves me well, WMIL did a great job in this respect in 2011, for example)
>
> Lodewijk
>
> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 12:48 PM, Felix Nartey  wrote:
>
>> This is a big issue and I think should be looked into more seriously.
>> Similar challenges were faced by participants from the Global South
>> selected to attend the CC Summit in Toronto early this year.
>>
>> This should inform future selection for all conference venues as it
>> allows for poor representation of the Global South at international
>> conferences.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 22, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Gnangarra  wrote:
>>
>>> These issues are a symptom of the closed processes that have occurred
>>> firstly with Montreal and next year with middle eastern attendees to Cape
>>> Town .  Acknowledging that the change was because of the amount effort put
>>> in by unsuccessful bidders was said to be wasted its showing that some
>>> things need to be opened for community discussion before decisions are
>>> made.
>>>
>>>  That it may be better for the WMF to require applicants to first obtain
>>> a visa before being confirmed for the scholarships in the future.
>>> Perth/Australia is another place that visas for attendees wouldnt have been
>>> a big issue.
>>>
>>> On 22 June 2017 at 17:43, cs  wrote:
>>>
 That’s one of the  reasons why  I  proposed Bangkok, Thailand, for 2019
 - apart  from its extremely tolerant  social cultures and very  low cost,
 while being  a very  modern hi-tech city easily  accessible by  direct
  flights from most  parts of the world. Almost  everyone can enter the
 country  for  at  least  15  days without  even a visa. Thailand only makes
 it difficult for people wanting to stay longer (years) in the country  on
 the pretext  of being  tourists.

 It’s a shame for the visa refusals, but  perhaps this will open up the
 possibility to some refused scholarship applications.

 Kudpung.

 On 22Jun, 2017, at 16:23, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
 bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi,

 The main topic of discussion among the scholarship recipients from
 global south this month is the high visa rejection rate by Canadian
 embassies from these countries.

 This year, we had 7 scholarship recipients from Bengali community, 4
 from India and 3 from Bangladesh. Already 3 out of 4 scholarship recipients
 from Indian part of the communities got their visa rejected, others are
 waiting. Although I am hoping for the best for all the scholarship
 recipients, but may be news of more rejections are coming soon.

 Wikimania should be organised in a visa friendly country, and not in
 those countries where global south citizens are not allowed to enter even
 for a 6-days conference. Otherwise, a global community is not truly
 presented.

 Best wishes,
 Bodhisattwa
 ___
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 Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l



 ___
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 Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
 https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l


>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> GN.
>>> President Wikimedia Australia
>>> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>>> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Felix Nartey*
>> *Cofounder/Director Finance &

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Visa rejections

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