Re: [Wikimania-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Federico Leva (Nemo)]

It's indeed a pity that things were not announced sooner and better, but 
the whole point of the new system is to decide earlier and waste less 
volunteer time/nerves. If we dislike having losers, let's design a 
system where there are no losers instead of asking that other people be 
the losers. (See Iolanda's message.)


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[WereSpielChequers]

But will there be fewer losers and less wasted effort under the continental 
rotation system? Under the set continent rotation system it won't be possible 
to bid one year, learn some lessons and bid the following year. You might get 
some overlap between bid teams three years apart, but I wouldn't plan on it. If 
we rotate by distance then an unsuccessful bid team would often have the option 
of bidding again the following year.

Regards

Jonathan 


> On 6 Oct 2015, at 07:06, Federico Leva (Nemo)  wrote:
> 
> It's indeed a pity that things were not announced sooner and better, but the 
> whole point of the new system is to decide earlier and waste less volunteer 
> time/nerves. If we dislike having losers, let's design a system where there 
> are no losers instead of asking that other people be the losers. (See 
> Iolanda's message.)
> 
> Nemo
> 
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Re: [Wikimania-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Luca Martinelli]

015-10-06 9:12 GMT+02:00 WereSpielChequers :
> But will there be fewer losers and less wasted effort under the continental 
> rotation system?

IMHO yes. It is better to be 100% sure that a location WILL be chosen
for a particular event, instead of saying "well, we're bidding, so for
now we will book the place, and then we may confirm in $number
months". We also have to take into account that also venues have
managements, and a certain degree of certainty surely helps to lower
the costs: Economics teach that uncertainty is a cost, and every cost
is to be paid by the last link of the chain, which is the attendee.

Also, I want to make a direct reference to the Manila 2016 Committee:
if I have to think how should they feel right now after the 2016 bid
procedure, I'd put my money on the "pissed-off-as-a-venomous-snake"
option. And they have good reasons to be that pissed off, because
surely they put lots of efforts in it... and then all disappeared,
like magic.

I myself am kinda in a same position (I probably have to tell someone
that I have to cancel an event I was actually pushing hard to realise,
after three months of efforts and many changes to the schedule), so I
totally feel for them. And Iolanda too, which is on the "winning" side
of the 2016 bid procedure, knows it, this is why she explicitly said
that line about "no more losers, more concerting". Because such a
delusion may undermine your "faith" in the movement, and let you do
less, instead of more for it - and with good reasons. I'd totally,
totally understand such a decision.

In the end, this change IS about not wasting someone's efforts. I am
most of the time in favour of free competition, but free competition
sometimes doesn't allow for a "soft" conclusion, which in our case
would be the best solution not to alienate people who care and are
willing to work. See Gnangarra message for an example.

-- 
Luca "Sannita" Martinelli
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utente:Sannita

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Re: [Wikimania-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Paolo B.]

On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Luca Martinelli 
wrote:

> 015-10-06 9:12 GMT+02:00 WereSpielChequers :
>
> Also, I want to make a direct reference to the Manila 2016 Committee:
> if I have to think how should they feel right now after the 2016 bid
> procedure, I'd put my money on the "pissed-off-as-a-venomous-snake"
> option. And they have good reasons to be that pissed off, because
> surely they put lots of efforts in it... and then all disappeared,
> like magic.
>
>
You are not far off the mark ;)

Personally (and not speaking on behalf of the rest of the Manila team), I
wouldn't mind, in principle, that the procedures for selecting the
Wikimania host is going to be changed for some welcome improvements.
(Although I have very strong reservations with the details, most of which
were aired by Josh before me).

However, if this was the intention all along, I hope that Ellie did not
have to tell Josh to tell the Manila team to restart our bid. At the time
we made our first bid, most of the prospective suppliers or partners said
that they would be available July-August 2016 and were even more than ready
to send us a contract on the spot (we had to explain that we're merely
putting a bid so we said that would have to wait). They are still available
and would be willing to pencil-book us should we win the 2017 bid. On my
part (and, I would surmise, Josh's), the time we've spent privately
reworking our bid could have been better spent in other tasks like
chapter/community work in Wikimedia Philippines.

If the changes to the procedure would have been effective for the 2018
bids, I would understand. However, we were never informed or warned that
changes were afoot, and up to this point, all of us---the Manila, Bali and
Perth bid teams---have started working on our bids in good faith, because
we never knew that the current process would be rescinded. And to make
things worse, the "winning" city for 2017 was not even one of the cities
which have put up a bid for 2017. This is probably one of the most
inconsiderate things I've ever experienced in my Wiki-life, and you cannot
blame me if we all felt betrayed and misled, despite and in spite of the
reassurances that have been said up to this point.

Now, how would I get ever back the time and effort I lost in reworking on
our planned 2017 bid?
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[Wikimania-l] Biggest disappointment from Wikimania 2017

[Gnangarra]

This has been going on for three days, yet not one person involved in this
decision has take a moment to reachout personally to the people who worked
on bids, They have tabled justifications on list discussions, they have
changed the status of Meta pages but not once have they given anyone the
courtesy of owning the mistakes that have caused this, not even the WMF has
made any personal attempt to help reconcile the damage at a more personal
level..

my month ahead;

   - in three hours a meeting with a bid sponsor
   - in 2 days a workshop with GLAM commencement of a new project that will
   include 100,000+ image donation
   - in 5 days WMAU AGM where no doubt these events will be a topic of
   discussion
   - in 15 days on 21st & 22nd I'll giving presentations at a national GLAM
   conference about working with us and about we have already started

I do all of this and a lot more as a volunteer not a paid employee,  3 days
ago my perception in the openness, honesty and integrity of the projects
took a big hit, so as hollow as it'll be now it'd still be nice to think
that the people involved in this have the courage to acknowledge & own
their failures in the way the changes evolved and were communicated.

As a foot note I contacted the WMF three days ago asking for information
and an apology then that I could take to those outside our community who
have also put time, effort and resources into the bid, those email havent
even been acknowledge as being received.

-- 
​We all make mistakes but its what we do next​ that counts

​Gideon​
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