Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Asaf Bartov]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:36 AM Balázs Viczián 
wrote:

>
> Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
> skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
> (or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)
>

Wikimedia conference in recent years have indeed been putting more and more
of an emphasis on people skills and governance skills.  Learning Days[1]
and the pre-conference Board  Training[2] at this year's WMCON are one
example, but regional and national conference have been seeing more
interest in these skills too.

Cheers,

A.

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_and_Evaluation/News/Learning_Days_for_Wikimedia_Conference_2018
[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2018/Pre-Conference_Boards_Training
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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimédia France Governance review

[Balázs Viczián]

This report is pretty useful in terms of comparing my chapter's policies to
this. Probably some fine tuning will follow. Thank you for sharing!

Note the pattern: UK, Germany, France, all 'big' chapters. My guess is that
the next one will very likely to be another 'large' chapter (100+ members,
multiple employees, many paralel projects etc)

As the report says very few has at least some experience in running
organizations (true worldwide) so no suprise such events happen every few
years, not to say those that stay 'local'.

Just having 50-100-150k edits is not enough to be a 'boss'

Would love to see people management skills workshops, and organizational
skills (logistics) workshops...but I attend an event only every 2-3 years
(or less), so this is just an almost silent suggestion :)

Balazs

2018. júl. 10. 7:44 ezt írta ("Alphos OGame" ):

Forgive my (usual ?) bluntness, but I don't think congratulations are in
order for undertaking the governance review ;-)

As a member and unwilling observer, I can tell you it was dearly needed, be
it by internal or external auditors, and mandated by the WMF.

However, as a long time member of the community and of Wikimedia France, I
do salute the effort of publishing the results of the review, as the
previous board of directors probably wouldn't have wanted to publish
anything critical of their method of governance ; and the review covers
both old and more recent times.
That indeed deserves credit, so thank you Nadine !

@ Cornelius : smart thinking on your part, collecting them in one place. I
hope there won't be any more crisis requiring a governance review in one of
our chapters, but in any case it will be interesting for all chapters to
know what to avoid in the future, and where to look for it, so thank you as
well.

Roger / Alphos



> Le 9 juil. 2018 à 13:44, Chris Keating  a
écrit :
>
> Congratulations to Wikimedia France for undertaking this review and
> publishing the results.
>
> I believe all of the 3 governance reviews are important reading for
> anyone involved with the WMF or any of the affiliates, and all have
> important lessons for the movement. It's interesting to note that this
> is the first one that touches on the WMF-affiliate relationship in
> much detail.
>
> Also - while so far governance reviews have only happened as a result
> of a crisis, this doesn't have to be the case! I would urge Wikimedia
> affiliates to take external advice on their governance, the
> suggestions offered by governance experts who know the laws, norms and
> cutlure in which you operate will be very helpful for you.
>
> Chris
> (who was Chair of Wikimedia UK at the point we had a governance review...)
>> On Sun, Jul 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM Nadine Le Lirzin 
wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As announced last month on this list[1], the Governance Assessment Report
>> by external auditors "Associés en gouvernance" has been published, and we
>> want to share it with you.
>>
>> The auditors did a great work, first in their rather good understanding
of
>> our movement complexity, and then in the numerous improvement suggestions
>> they delivered.
>>
>> The consultation of our members – to fully associate them to the
rebuilding
>> – is still in progress. Main changes will be submitted to a vote at next
>> General Assembly, by the end of the year.
>>
>> The document has been translated in English and is now available on
>> Commons[2].
>>
>> May these suggestions be useful not only for Wikimédia France, but also
for
>> any other chapter or affiliate that would be in need of governance advice
>> or ideas.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Nadine Le Lirzin
>> *Wikimedia France Board Secretary*
>>
>>
>> [1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2018-
June/090413.html
>> [2]
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_France_-_
Governance_Assessment_Report_-_2018.pdf
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Creation of separate user group for editing sitewide CSS/JS

[Vi to]

Small wikis are, from this specific security issue, full of risks. I think
this element should be taken into account.

Restricting css/js editing may be a patch for a short time, but our
infrastructure is pretty vulnerable, our users can be injected with
malicious js by editing thousands of pages on any among hundreds of wikis.

Vito

2018-07-10 20:51 GMT+02:00 Strainu :

> 2018-07-10 20:38 GMT+03:00 Alex Monk :
> > On 10 July 2018 at 12:06, Bodhisattwa Mandal <
> bodhisattwa.rg...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> 1) Not all communities have been informed about this future change (
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Distribution_list/
> Technical_Village_Pumps_
> >> distribution_list
> >> )
> >
> > The plan appears to be to do this, maybe it just hasn't happened yet:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Creation_of_
> separate_user_group_for_editing_sitewide_CSS/JS#Announcement_plan
> >
> > 2) The comments in the meta talk page suggests that there is no intention
> >> to get opinions from editor community members. Everything seems to be
> >> pre-decided by the developer community and we dont have other options
> but
> >> to accept the proposal without proper discussion.
> >> (
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Creation_of_
> separate_user_group_for_
> >> editing_sitewide_CSS/JS
> >> )
> >>
> > It's a software security decision so editor community acceptance of this
> > change is optional, but there is an attempt to get the opinions of editor
> > community members (if there wasn't there wouldn't even be a page on meta
> > about this). These rights should never have been bundled with sysop
> rights,
> > they are incredibly dangerous and more on the level of bureaucrat/steward
> > than anything else in the sysop rights list.
> >
> > 3) Many admins from smaller wikis have expressed their concerns that this
> >> decision will severely affect the workflow of those wikis, but none of
> >> these concerns are addressed.
> >>
> > I don't see how. The current local group the rights are granted by is
> > bureaucrat-grantable, and the new local group the rights will be granted
> by
> > will be bureaucrat-grantable.
>
> The problem is that smaller wikis don't have bureaucrats either and
> there have been some very harsh proposals on that talk page with
> regards to how the user right should be provided by stewards. Having
> some kind of global policy (like the one you propose below) before
> deploying would probably ease a lot of the fears.
> >
> >
> >> 4) Many editors have expressed concern over just 2 week short notice
> period
> >> for this transition. But that concern is also not addressed.
> >>
> >
> > If we were to say that stewards would be allowed to assign the rights to
> > any existing local admin (without extra discussion) on the conditions
> that:
> > 1) they were an admin at the time of the group losing its rights and have
> > not lost any local rights since
> > 2) there have been no local bureaucrats active on the wiki since the
> change.
> > I think this would be fine.
>
> I agree with the proposal, but it seems rather orthogonal to the
> transition period. There are all kinds of possible situations and
> communities are rather responsive more than pro-active on these
> subjects. As someone pointed out on the talk page, there is no real
> reason to hurry the deployment so much. The fact that it was announced
> in the tech news is a good first step, but it seems like a good idea
> to now take the time to do thinks properly.
>
> Strainu
>
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Advrk Aplmrkt]

Amazing work and much needed, thank you!

I can't use proprietary file formats like AI, can you export it to SVG?

On 10/07/2018, Arne Wossink  wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to edit
> Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. These
> currently include "create an account", "make your first edit", "insert a
> reference", "upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a general cheat
> sheet on the visual editor. They're all in Dutch, except for the Visual
> editing cheat sheet, which is also available in English.
>
> If anyone's interested in having these available in their own language, I'm
> more than happy to work with them to make these available (time
> permitting). Source files are available in Adobe Illustrator format, so I
> can make those available as well to those who would like to do the editing
> themselves.
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spiekbriefje_Visueel_bewerken.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Doe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Voeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Upload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdf
>
> Best,
>
> Arne Wossink
>
> Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland
>
> *(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
> Thursday)*
>
> Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
> E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl
>
> *Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:*
> Mariaplaats 3
> 3511 LH Utrecht
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Strainu]

Hi Arne,

I'm also interested in translating these in Romanian, but I can't
really work with Illustrator.

Strainu

2018-07-10 12:31 GMT+03:00 Arne Wossink :
> Hi all,
>
> For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to edit
> Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. These
> currently include "create an account", "make your first edit", "insert a
> reference", "upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a general cheat
> sheet on the visual editor. They're all in Dutch, except for the Visual
> editing cheat sheet, which is also available in English.
>
> If anyone's interested in having these available in their own language, I'm
> more than happy to work with them to make these available (time
> permitting). Source files are available in Adobe Illustrator format, so I
> can make those available as well to those who would like to do the editing
> themselves.
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spiekbriefje_Visueel_bewerken.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Doe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Voeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Upload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdf
>
> Best,
>
> Arne Wossink
>
> Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland
>
> *(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
> Thursday)*
>
> Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
> E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl
>
> *Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:*
> Mariaplaats 3
> 3511 LH Utrecht
> ___
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, 
> 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Creation of separate user group for editing sitewide CSS/JS

[Strainu]

2018-07-10 20:38 GMT+03:00 Alex Monk :
> On 10 July 2018 at 12:06, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
> wrote:
>
>> 1) Not all communities have been informed about this future change (
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_
>> distribution_list
>> )
>
> The plan appears to be to do this, maybe it just hasn't happened yet:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Creation_of_separate_user_group_for_editing_sitewide_CSS/JS#Announcement_plan
>
> 2) The comments in the meta talk page suggests that there is no intention
>> to get opinions from editor community members. Everything seems to be
>> pre-decided by the developer community and we dont have other options but
>> to accept the proposal without proper discussion.
>> (
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Creation_of_separate_user_group_for_
>> editing_sitewide_CSS/JS
>> )
>>
> It's a software security decision so editor community acceptance of this
> change is optional, but there is an attempt to get the opinions of editor
> community members (if there wasn't there wouldn't even be a page on meta
> about this). These rights should never have been bundled with sysop rights,
> they are incredibly dangerous and more on the level of bureaucrat/steward
> than anything else in the sysop rights list.
>
> 3) Many admins from smaller wikis have expressed their concerns that this
>> decision will severely affect the workflow of those wikis, but none of
>> these concerns are addressed.
>>
> I don't see how. The current local group the rights are granted by is
> bureaucrat-grantable, and the new local group the rights will be granted by
> will be bureaucrat-grantable.

The problem is that smaller wikis don't have bureaucrats either and
there have been some very harsh proposals on that talk page with
regards to how the user right should be provided by stewards. Having
some kind of global policy (like the one you propose below) before
deploying would probably ease a lot of the fears.
>
>
>> 4) Many editors have expressed concern over just 2 week short notice period
>> for this transition. But that concern is also not addressed.
>>
>
> If we were to say that stewards would be allowed to assign the rights to
> any existing local admin (without extra discussion) on the conditions that:
> 1) they were an admin at the time of the group losing its rights and have
> not lost any local rights since
> 2) there have been no local bureaucrats active on the wiki since the change.
> I think this would be fine.

I agree with the proposal, but it seems rather orthogonal to the
transition period. There are all kinds of possible situations and
communities are rather responsive more than pro-active on these
subjects. As someone pointed out on the talk page, there is no real
reason to hurry the deployment so much. The fact that it was announced
in the tech news is a good first step, but it seems like a good idea
to now take the time to do thinks properly.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Creation of separate user group for editing sitewide CSS/JS

[Alex Monk]

On 10 July 2018 at 12:06, Bodhisattwa Mandal 
wrote:

> 1) Not all communities have been informed about this future change (
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_
> distribution_list
> )

The plan appears to be to do this, maybe it just hasn't happened yet:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Creation_of_separate_user_group_for_editing_sitewide_CSS/JS#Announcement_plan

2) The comments in the meta talk page suggests that there is no intention
> to get opinions from editor community members. Everything seems to be
> pre-decided by the developer community and we dont have other options but
> to accept the proposal without proper discussion.
> (
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Creation_of_separate_user_group_for_
> editing_sitewide_CSS/JS
> )
>
It's a software security decision so editor community acceptance of this
change is optional, but there is an attempt to get the opinions of editor
community members (if there wasn't there wouldn't even be a page on meta
about this). These rights should never have been bundled with sysop rights,
they are incredibly dangerous and more on the level of bureaucrat/steward
than anything else in the sysop rights list.

3) Many admins from smaller wikis have expressed their concerns that this
> decision will severely affect the workflow of those wikis, but none of
> these concerns are addressed.
>
I don't see how. The current local group the rights are granted by is
bureaucrat-grantable, and the new local group the rights will be granted by
will be bureaucrat-grantable.


> 4) Many editors have expressed concern over just 2 week short notice period
> for this transition. But that concern is also not addressed.
>

If we were to say that stewards would be allowed to assign the rights to
any existing local admin (without extra discussion) on the conditions that:
1) they were an admin at the time of the group losing its rights and have
not lost any local rights since
2) there have been no local bureaucrats active on the wiki since the change.
I think this would be fine.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Commons 2017 Picture of the Year | Round two open

[Steinsplitter Wiki]

Dear Wikimedians,


We are happy to announce that the second round of the 2017 Picture of the Year 
competition is now open.


In the second and current round, you may vote for up to 3 finalists you like. 
Each of these 3 votes counts equal and one candidate must be only voted once. 
Note: if someone casts more than three votes, only the 3 most recent votes will 
be counted.  Round 2 will end 22 July 2018, 23:59:59.


You can vote here: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2017/R2/Gallery

Thanks,
POTY 2017 committee

Note: Users must vote with an account meeting following requirements: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2017/Rules



Von: Wikimedia-l  im Auftrag von 
Steinsplitter Wiki 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Juni 2018 14:53
An: Wikimedia Mailing List
Cc: Wikimedia Commons Discussion List
Betreff: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Commons 2017 Picture of the Year competition 
is now open

Dear Wikimedians,

We are happy to announce that the 2017 Picture of the Year competition is now 
open.

Picture of the Year 2017 is the twelfth edition of the annual Wikimedia Commons 
image competition, which recognizes exceptional contributions by users on 
Wikimedia Commons. Wikimedia users are invited to vote for their favorite 
images featured on Commons (FP) during the year 2017, to produce a single 
Picture of the Year.

Hundreds of images that have been rated Featured Pictures by the international 
Wikimedia Commons community. From professional animal and plant shots to 
breathtaking panoramas and skylines, historically relevant images, images 
portraying the world's best architecture, Commons features pictures of all 
flavors.

For your convenience, we have sorted the images into topic categories. Two 
rounds of voting will be held: In the first (and current) round, you can vote 
for as many images as you like. The first round category winners and the top 
ten overall will then make it to the final. In the final round, when a limited 
number of images are left, you must decide on the one image that you want to 
become the Picture of the Year.

To see the candidate images just go to the POTY 2017 page on Wikimedia Commons: 
 https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2017

Round 1 will end 24 June 2018, 23:59:59 [UTC].

Thanks,
POTY 2017 committee

Note: Users must vote with an account meeting following requirements: 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Picture_of_the_Year/2017/Rules

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[Wikimedia-l] Creation of separate user group for editing sitewide CSS/JS

[Bodhisattwa Mandal]

Hi,

I accidentally checked this meta page

today, when another editor forwarded me the link in Facebook. Here it has
been proposed that admins will be stripped off to edit js/css pages because
of security reasons. The way this is being handled is rather disturbing to
me.

1) Not all communities have been informed about this future change (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Distribution_list/Technical_Village_Pumps_distribution_list
)

2) The comments in the meta talk page suggests that there is no intention
to get opinions from editor community members. Everything seems to be
pre-decided by the developer community and we dont have other options but
to accept the proposal without proper discussion.
(
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Creation_of_separate_user_group_for_editing_sitewide_CSS/JS
)

3) Many admins from smaller wikis have expressed their concerns that this
decision will severely affect the workflow of those wikis, but none of
these concerns are addressed.

4) Many editors have expressed concern over just 2 week short notice period
for this transition. But that concern is also not addressed.

Regards,

Bodhisattwa
Bengali community
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Delphine Dallison]

Great, Arne. Send me the AI files and I'll make a start. 

Best wishes,

Delphine Dallison
Wikimedian in Residence
Scottish Library and Information Council 
Turnberry House 
Suite 5:5, Fifth Floor
175 West George Street
Glasgow G2 2LB
Tel: 0141 202 2999
www.scottishlibraries.org 


Enriching lives through libraries


-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l  On Behalf Of Arne 
Wossink
Sent: 10 July 2018 11:50
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

Hi Delphine,

The English version of the VE cheat sheet is already available so you can start 
working on that right away, if you want. I'll send you the AI file.
I'm going to look into getting English translations for the other files as well.

Best,


Arne Wossink

Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland

*(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
Thursday)*

Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl

*Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:* Mariaplaats 3
3511 LH Utrecht

2018-07-10 11:45 GMT+02:00 Delphine Dallison <
d.dalli...@scottishlibraries.org>:

> These are fab and I would love to have a version of these in English. 
> If anyone can help with translating the text, I'd be happy to do the 
> layout work with the Illustrator files. Once I have the English 
> version, I'd be happy to translate it to French as well.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Delphine Dallison
> Wikimedian in Residence
> Scottish Library and Information Council Turnberry House Suite 5:5, 
> Fifth Floor
> 175 West George Street
> Glasgow G2 2LB
> Tel: 0141 202 2999
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=www.scottishlibra
> ries.orgdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7C47dc4
> 5bcd0bc46a3d66508d5e652fae6%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C0
> %7C636668166420505538sdata=uhPQvCzUW2VD%2BCt1fq12F4c4aR461lAokqBd
> Ou3q0gM%3Dreserved=0
>
>
> Enriching lives through libraries
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l  On Behalf 
> Of Arne Wossink
> Sent: 10 July 2018 10:32
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia
>
> Hi all,
>
> For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to 
> edit Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. 
> These currently include "create an account", "make your first edit", 
> "insert a reference", "upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a 
> general cheat sheet on the visual editor. They're all in Dutch, except 
> for the Visual editing cheat sheet, which is also available in English.
>
> If anyone's interested in having these available in their own 
> language, I'm more than happy to work with them to make these 
> available (time permitting). Source files are available in Adobe 
> Illustrator format, so I can make those available as well to those who 
> would like to do the editing themselves.
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3ACheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%
> 7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e6
> 47 
> f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582
> mp;
> sdata=yDIHEQgJkYVctR%2B%2FvPf%2BElHv5IX1CgKevol3JhVuwQ4%3Dreserve
> d=0 https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ASpiekbriefje_Visue
> el_ 
> bewerken.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%
> 7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7a
> db76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582sdata=R0z4Qgre%2F%
> 2BVg72p4p17Jp2wD1eRMs4B53ETN6vRZGvk%3Dreserved=0
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3AMaak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%
> 40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%
> 7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582
> sdata=eHpqAyPo4%2FlppfqSBoGxdWFzKjMBla1btLemHCtsG7k%3Dreserved=0
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3ADoe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallis
> on% 40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%
> 7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109712588
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> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
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> 3AVoeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdf
> data=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%
> 7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7a
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> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3AUpload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdf

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Arne Wossink]

Hi Delphine,

The English version of the VE cheat sheet is already available so you can
start working on that right away, if you want. I'll send you the AI file.
I'm going to look into getting English translations for the other files as
well.

Best,


Arne Wossink

Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland

*(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
Thursday)*

Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl

*Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:*
Mariaplaats 3
3511 LH Utrecht

2018-07-10 11:45 GMT+02:00 Delphine Dallison <
d.dalli...@scottishlibraries.org>:

> These are fab and I would love to have a version of these in English. If
> anyone can help with translating the text, I'd be happy to do the layout
> work with the Illustrator files. Once I have the English version, I'd be
> happy to translate it to French as well.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Delphine Dallison
> Wikimedian in Residence
> Scottish Library and Information Council
> Turnberry House
> Suite 5:5, Fifth Floor
> 175 West George Street
> Glasgow G2 2LB
> Tel: 0141 202 2999
> www.scottishlibraries.org
>
>
> Enriching lives through libraries
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Wikimedia-l  On Behalf Of
> Arne Wossink
> Sent: 10 July 2018 10:32
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia
>
> Hi all,
>
> For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to edit
> Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. These
> currently include "create an account", "make your first edit", "insert a
> reference", "upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a general cheat
> sheet on the visual editor. They're all in Dutch, except for the Visual
> editing cheat sheet, which is also available in English.
>
> If anyone's interested in having these available in their own language,
> I'm more than happy to work with them to make these available (time
> permitting). Source files are available in Adobe Illustrator format, so I
> can make those available as well to those who would like to do the editing
> themselves.
>
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3ACheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%
> 7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647
> f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582
> sdata=yDIHEQgJkYVctR%2B%2FvPf%2BElHv5IX1CgKevol3JhVuwQ4%3Dreserved=0
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ASpiekbriefje_Visueel_
> bewerken.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%
> 7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7a
> db76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582sdata=R0z4Qgre%2F%
> 2BVg72p4p17Jp2wD1eRMs4B53ETN6vRZGvk%3Dreserved=0
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3AMaak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%
> 40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%
> 7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582
> sdata=eHpqAyPo4%2FlppfqSBoGxdWFzKjMBla1btLemHCtsG7k%3Dreserved=0
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3ADoe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%
> 40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%
> 7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109712588
> sdata=mVu%2FNidGDMAMO2wLPiDjnDKMoCuM7we0UHoE0WWbzCA%3Dreserved=0
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3AVoeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdf
> data=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%
> 7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7a
> db76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109712588sdata=5tRzye6BQZoUOM%
> 2BqBGqwFreR1zcasylLCcLr3%2F7AsKw%3Dreserved=0
> https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=
> https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%
> 3AUpload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdf
> data=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%
> 7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7a
> db76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109712588sdata=5ONct08ryP1VfKUuNXMt199598Utwy
> NTf%2FXC1d%2F2isA%3Dreserved=0
>
> Best,
>
> Arne Wossink
>
> Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland
>
> *(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
> Thursday)*
>
> Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
> E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl
>
> *Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:* Mariaplaats 3
> 3511 LH Utrecht
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://emea01.safelinks.
> protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fmeta.wikimedia.
> org%2Fwiki%2FMailing_lists%2FGuidelinesdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%
> 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] On traceability and reliability of data we publish [was Re: [Wikidata] Solve legal uncertainty of Wikidata]

[Andreas Kolbe]

Hi Roger / Alphos,



On Sat, Jul 7, 2018 at 10:01 PM, Alphos OGame 
wrote:

> Traceability of information does not pertain with who imported said
> information on Wikidata. Could be an unregistered user, could be a bot,
> could be a Wikimedian in residence or even the Pope himself, it doesn't
> make a difference in the world.
> What matters in traceability of a piece of data is *where* it comes from,
> and that piece of metadata is achieved through referencing.
> That does not belong in licencing.
> CC-BY would mean reusers would have to mention individual users (including
> vandals, sigh) who took part in compiling datasets on Wikidata, which you
> seem to be oblivious to.




When Bing and Google display Wikipedia snippets, they add a Wikipedia
hyperlink, not a list of all contributors.

That satisfies the CC-BY licence, which states explicitly,


   1. You may satisfy the conditions in Section 3(a)(1)
    in any
   reasonable manner based on the medium, means, and context in which You
   Share the Licensed Material. For example, it may be reasonable to satisfy
   the conditions by providing a URI or hyperlink to a resource that includes
   the required information.


Few people would say that listing every contributor and vandal who has ever
had a hand in a dataset would be "reasonable". This applies even more so in
the case of voice-based digital assistants (imagine ...). So I don't see
this as a real concern.




> CC-BY does not help track where a work comes from,
> only who took part in making it.




As you say, what matters in traceability is where a piece of data comes
from. Referencing is indeed important there (Wikidata has historically had
a poor track record in that respect).

But you seem to overlook the much simpler fact that end users have to be
able to tell that data they encounter come from Wikidata and not some other
unnamed database. How can they look up a Wikidata reference if the re-user
doesn't even tell them that Wikidata is where the data is from?

Telling end users that data come from Wikidata is important for several
reasons.

It brings new contributors to Wikidata. It provides visibility for
Wikimedia and its volunteer community. And when data is wrong, it enables
people to find out why the data is wrong, and where they have to go to fix
the error. Many eyes make all bugs shallow, but this is only true if people
know where to go to fix a bug.

Telling end users that data come from Wikidata is surely the most
fundamental level of traceability. And a prime reason why Google and Bing
tell users that their snippets come from Wikipedia is that Wikipedia's
licence demands attribution. That's a good thing.

Best,
A.




> Datasets reusers don't need that kind of
> information when all they want is a list of countries of which Heads of
> State have spouses whose given name starts with a D [1].
>
> When it comes to reliability, there again, who imported it is not
> particularly of importance, keeping in mind that Wikidata is not the most
> user-friendly wiki in the Wikimedia Ecosystem, as it is not the simplest to
> grasp for human minds, and as such not the most frequently vandalized
> (three huzzahs for small favors !).
> What matters in reliability of a piece of data stems from the *source* of a
> particular source of information, which, once again, is indicated by a
> reference, and the credit you give to said source.
> That again does not belong in licencing.
> CC-BY would mean reusers would know that a crapton of people they have no
> idea even exist took part in compiling a dataset they require (instead of
> just the dataset and references pertaining to it), which again you seem to
> be oblivious to. It doesn't protect reusers against vandalism, it does
> however make their dataset a whole lot larger by adding the names of a
> whole lot of people they don't know or care about.
>
> It really doesn't matter how you put it, the arguments you've put forward
> so far simply don't make any kind of sense against CC0 or for CC-BY.
>
> If however you do insist on knowing which user added a particular piece of
> data (or reference/metadata, for that matter) to an item, Wikidata keeps an
> edit history just in case. It is not necessary for the licence currently in
> effect on Wikidata (which, need I remind you, is still CC0), but it is
> there nonetheless should you need it.
>
> Now, do we need to keep this needlessly long and tedious thread alive under
> another name or could we please drop it and carry on with our lives.
>
> Roger / Alphos
>
> [1] Maybe for a prophecy or something ? Well, if anyone need it, it's
> hopelessly simple, so here goes : https://tinyurl.com/yb6dh3r6
>
>
>
> 2018-07-07 17:59 GMT+02:00 mathieu lovato stumpf guntz <
> psychosl...@culture-libre.org>:
>
> > Hi Andra,
> >
> > I agree this is misconception that a copyright license make any direct
> > change to data reliability. But attribution requirement 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Delphine Dallison]

These are fab and I would love to have a version of these in English. If anyone 
can help with translating the text, I'd be happy to do the layout work with the 
Illustrator files. Once I have the English version, I'd be happy to translate 
it to French as well. 

Best wishes,

Delphine Dallison
Wikimedian in Residence
Scottish Library and Information Council 
Turnberry House 
Suite 5:5, Fifth Floor
175 West George Street
Glasgow G2 2LB
Tel: 0141 202 2999
www.scottishlibraries.org 


Enriching lives through libraries


-Original Message-
From: Wikimedia-l  On Behalf Of Arne 
Wossink
Sent: 10 July 2018 10:32
To: Wikimedia Mailing List 
Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

Hi all,

For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to edit 
Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. These currently 
include "create an account", "make your first edit", "insert a reference", 
"upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a general cheat sheet on the visual 
editor. They're all in Dutch, except for the Visual editing cheat sheet, which 
is also available in English.

If anyone's interested in having these available in their own language, I'm 
more than happy to work with them to make these available (time permitting). 
Source files are available in Adobe Illustrator format, so I can make those 
available as well to those who would like to do the editing themselves.

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ACheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582sdata=yDIHEQgJkYVctR%2B%2FvPf%2BElHv5IX1CgKevol3JhVuwQ4%3Dreserved=0
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ASpiekbriefje_Visueel_bewerken.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582sdata=R0z4Qgre%2F%2BVg72p4p17Jp2wD1eRMs4B53ETN6vRZGvk%3Dreserved=0
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AMaak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109702582sdata=eHpqAyPo4%2FlppfqSBoGxdWFzKjMBla1btLemHCtsG7k%3Dreserved=0
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3ADoe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109712588sdata=mVu%2FNidGDMAMO2wLPiDjnDKMoCuM7we0UHoE0WWbzCA%3Dreserved=0
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AVoeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109712588sdata=5tRzye6BQZoUOM%2BqBGqwFreR1zcasylLCcLr3%2F7AsKw%3Dreserved=0
https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcommons.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FFile%3AUpload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdfdata=02%7C01%7Cd.dallison%40scottishlibraries.org%7Cbc43419b1f5e4e8471ab08d5e647f6ee%7C6414ad35a3824075ab2600ed2b7adb76%7C1%7C1%7C636668119109712588sdata=5ONct08ryP1VfKUuNXMt199598UtwyNTf%2FXC1d%2F2isA%3Dreserved=0

Best,

Arne Wossink

Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland

*(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
Thursday)*

Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl

*Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:* Mariaplaats 3
3511 LH Utrecht
___
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Tito Dutta]

+1. This is interesting, and much needed

Thanks
Tito Dutta
Note: If I don't reply to your email in 2 days, please feel free to remind
me over email or phone call.


On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 at 15:05, Rupika Sharma  wrote:

> Hello Arne,
>
> These are wonderful! Thank you for putting such hardwork for these.
>
> Best,
> Rupika Sharma
> Co-Founder
> Punjabi Wikimedians
>
> On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:01 PM Arne Wossink  wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to edit
> > Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. These
> > currently include "create an account", "make your first edit", "insert a
> > reference", "upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a general cheat
> > sheet on the visual editor. They're all in Dutch, except for the Visual
> > editing cheat sheet, which is also available in English.
> >
> > If anyone's interested in having these available in their own language,
> I'm
> > more than happy to work with them to make these available (time
> > permitting). Source files are available in Adobe Illustrator format, so I
> > can make those available as well to those who would like to do the
> editing
> > themselves.
> >
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdf
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spiekbriefje_Visueel_bewerken.pdf
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdf
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Doe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdf
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Voeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdf
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Upload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdf
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Arne Wossink
> >
> > Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland
> >
> > *(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
> > Thursday)*
> >
> > Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
> > E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl
> >
> > *Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:*
> > Mariaplaats 3
> > 3511 LH Utrecht
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Rupika Sharma]

Hello Arne,

These are wonderful! Thank you for putting such hardwork for these.

Best,
Rupika Sharma
Co-Founder
Punjabi Wikimedians

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 3:01 PM Arne Wossink  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to edit
> Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. These
> currently include "create an account", "make your first edit", "insert a
> reference", "upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a general cheat
> sheet on the visual editor. They're all in Dutch, except for the Visual
> editing cheat sheet, which is also available in English.
>
> If anyone's interested in having these available in their own language, I'm
> more than happy to work with them to make these available (time
> permitting). Source files are available in Adobe Illustrator format, so I
> can make those available as well to those who would like to do the editing
> themselves.
>
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdf
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spiekbriefje_Visueel_bewerken.pdf
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdf
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Doe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdf
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Voeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdf
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Upload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdf
>
> Best,
>
> Arne Wossink
>
> Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland
>
> *(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
> Thursday)*
>
> Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
> E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl
>
> *Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:*
> Mariaplaats 3
> 3511 LH Utrecht
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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[Wikimedia-l] Cheat sheets visual editing on Wikipedia

[Arne Wossink]

Hi all,

For WMNL I've been working on several 1-page cheat sheets on how to edit
Wikipedia in visual editing mode, to be used during editathons. These
currently include "create an account", "make your first edit", "insert a
reference", "upload an image to Wikimedia Commons", and a general cheat
sheet on the visual editor. They're all in Dutch, except for the Visual
editing cheat sheet, which is also available in English.

If anyone's interested in having these available in their own language, I'm
more than happy to work with them to make these available (time
permitting). Source files are available in Adobe Illustrator format, so I
can make those available as well to those who would like to do the editing
themselves.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cheat_sheet_Visual_editing_on_Wikipedia.pdf
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Spiekbriefje_Visueel_bewerken.pdf
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Maak_een_account_aan_op_Wikipedia.pdf
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Doe_je_eerste_bewerking_op_Wikipedia.pdf
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Voeg_je_eerste_referentie_toe_aan_Wikipedia.pdf
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Upload_je_eerste_foto_naar_Wikimedia_Commons.pdf

Best,

Arne Wossink

Projectleider / Project Manager Wikimedia Nederland

*(Werkdagen: maandag, dinsdag, donderdag / Office hours: Monday, Tuesday,
Thursday)*

Tel. +31 (0)6 11000505
E-mail: woss...@wikimedia.nl

*Post/bezoekadres / Mail/visiting address:*
Mariaplaats 3
3511 LH Utrecht
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikidata] Solve legal uncertainty of Wikidata

[mathieu lovato stumpf guntz]

Although we discussed about that more extensively off-list, I just 
wanted to make publicly clear that:


- I don't make "forum-shopping", I batch reply to some messages where my 
name was explicitely appearing in the message body. I have close to 2000 
untreated messages in the Wikimedia directory of my mailbox alone.
- On the phabricator ticket I refered to an email that Karima posted on 
mailling list, but didn't quoted the message itself as I prefered to not 
be out of terms of use of the list. I thought that the mailling list was 
reserved to WMfr members, Denny rightfully pointed that it was hard to 
judge on a message he didn't have access to.
- I thought that was ambarassing not to be able to give access to this 
information, and in order not to fall in the same ambarrassing situation 
again I thought it would be great to make future posts public by default
- I didn't asked for "for total and absolute transparency and openness" 
however. To make it perfectly clear and explicit I don't support any 
form of absolutism. And in the end it happened that the mailling list 
archives in question was already accessible to anyone subscribing freely 
online, unlike what we had previously as a policy for some lists in WMfr 
which led me to wrong assumptions. It's a fine level of transparency 
from my expectations which might be high, but not absolute.
- Karima wen't out of the mailling list demanding the message I was 
referring to to be deleted, and saying that in fact she was not a 
Wikidata contributor. Anyone is free to look at that more closely and 
draws its own conclusions.
- I don't expect any change in Wikidata license, and anyone interested 
in the legal issue should proferably look at the phabricator ticket as 
it was previously suggested


I hope that giving a bit of context might help dispel misinterpretations.

Cheers.

Le 06/07/2018 à 23:37, Alphos OGame a écrit :

Hello,

Mathieu, not only are you forum-shopping here as Maarten pointed out, you
are also consecutively trying one "what if" after the other instead of
providing an actual formal case against the CC0 license currently in effect
on Wikidata.
So far each of your individual arguments has been debunked :
- incompatibly licensed database imports (Nemo_bis [1] and Denny [2][3]
replied to that concern on May 14th on Phabricator ; same applies to
CC-BY-SA on Wikipedia : we get rid of incompatible stuff all the time)
- provenance and traceability of data (Maarten Dammers replied to that
concern on this email thread on July 4th ; licenses have nothing to do with
either of those things : references are there for that, and edit history
can help too)
- conflation of licensing of an entire text and facts stated within it -
which is pretty much one of the main purposes of Wikidata, or am I mistaken
? - (Martijn Hoekstra replied to that concern on this email thread on July
4th ; facts aren't long blobs of complicated text that are works of the
mind, although it could be a tad more complex when it comes to large
compilations of facts - but the definition of "large" is nowhere properly
determined)
On May 25th, you mentionned on Phabricator "discussing face to face with a
professional lawyer specialized on free licenses" [4]. She was supposed to
forward you "more information later". Has she done that ? Barring anything
new from her or any other lawyer, I see no reason whatsoever to keep going
on with that discussion which, so far, seems to only be able to determine
the morals and ethos of sticking to CC0, and not the actual legality of it.

However, I'd like to point out as an aside that in the process of your - so
far it seems purely intellectual - exercice, you have pushed Karima out of
a mailing list, which culminated in you asking from Wikimedia France that
all messages from all their mailing lists be immediately and irrevocably
made public "for total and absolute transparency and openness" as I recall
it, for the measly sake of this very argument. Your request was thankfully
denied on the basis of, if anything, privacy protection of their members.
Her message on May 4th on Phabricator [5] doesn't leave much to the
imagination that her leaving the Wikimedia France Wikidata mailing list and
your actions are directly related.

I suggest you either provide a strong legal argument (which is more than
"this thing and that stuff could happen", I mean something with actual
legal babble, including law and case law, with help from an actual lawyer)
or drop the splintered stick you hit that long-since dead horse with. And
whichever you choose, if you could stop bullying people to get your point
across, that'd be swell.

Thank you.

Roger / Alphos

[1] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4204583
[2] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4204771
[3] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4204779
[4] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4231434
[5] https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T193728#4182444



2018-07-05 20:30 GMT+02:00 Yann Forget :