Although we discussed about that more extensively off-list, I just wanted to make publicly clear that:

- I don't make "forum-shopping", I batch reply to some messages where my name was explicitely appearing in the message body. I have close to 2000 untreated messages in the Wikimedia directory of my mailbox alone. - On the phabricator ticket I refered to an email that Karima posted on mailling list, but didn't quoted the message itself as I prefered to not be out of terms of use of the list. I thought that the mailling list was reserved to WMfr members, Denny rightfully pointed that it was hard to judge on a message he didn't have access to. - I thought that was ambarassing not to be able to give access to this information, and in order not to fall in the same ambarrassing situation again I thought it would be great to make future posts public by default - I didn't asked for "for total and absolute transparency and openness" however. To make it perfectly clear and explicit I don't support any form of absolutism. And in the end it happened that the mailling list archives in question was already accessible to anyone subscribing freely online, unlike what we had previously as a policy for some lists in WMfr which led me to wrong assumptions. It's a fine level of transparency from my expectations which might be high, but not absolute. - Karima wen't out of the mailling list demanding the message I was referring to to be deleted, and saying that in fact she was not a Wikidata contributor. Anyone is free to look at that more closely and draws its own conclusions. - I don't expect any change in Wikidata license, and anyone interested in the legal issue should proferably look at the phabricator ticket as it was previously suggested

I hope that giving a bit of context might help dispel misinterpretations.


Le 06/07/2018 à 23:37, Alphos OGame a écrit :

Mathieu, not only are you forum-shopping here as Maarten pointed out, you
are also consecutively trying one "what if" after the other instead of
providing an actual formal case against the CC0 license currently in effect
on Wikidata.
So far each of your individual arguments has been debunked :
- incompatibly licensed database imports (Nemo_bis [1] and Denny [2][3]
replied to that concern on May 14th on Phabricator ; same applies to
CC-BY-SA on Wikipedia : we get rid of incompatible stuff all the time)
- provenance and traceability of data (Maarten Dammers replied to that
concern on this email thread on July 4th ; licenses have nothing to do with
either of those things : references are there for that, and edit history
can help too)
- conflation of licensing of an entire text and facts stated within it -
which is pretty much one of the main purposes of Wikidata, or am I mistaken
? - (Martijn Hoekstra replied to that concern on this email thread on July
4th ; facts aren't long blobs of complicated text that are works of the
mind, although it could be a tad more complex when it comes to large
compilations of facts - but the definition of "large" is nowhere properly
On May 25th, you mentionned on Phabricator "discussing face to face with a
professional lawyer specialized on free licenses" [4]. She was supposed to
forward you "more information later". Has she done that ? Barring anything
new from her or any other lawyer, I see no reason whatsoever to keep going
on with that discussion which, so far, seems to only be able to determine
the morals and ethos of sticking to CC0, and not the actual legality of it.

However, I'd like to point out as an aside that in the process of your - so
far it seems purely intellectual - exercice, you have pushed Karima out of
a mailing list, which culminated in you asking from Wikimedia France that
all messages from all their mailing lists be immediately and irrevocably
made public "for total and absolute transparency and openness" as I recall
it, for the measly sake of this very argument. Your request was thankfully
denied on the basis of, if anything, privacy protection of their members.
Her message on May 4th on Phabricator [5] doesn't leave much to the
imagination that her leaving the Wikimedia France Wikidata mailing list and
your actions are directly related.

I suggest you either provide a strong legal argument (which is more than
"this thing and that stuff could happen", I mean something with actual
legal babble, including law and case law, with help from an actual lawyer)
or drop the splintered stick you hit that long-since dead horse with. And
whichever you choose, if you could stop bullying people to get your point
across, that'd be swell.

Thank you.

Roger / Alphos


2018-07-05 20:30 GMT+02:00 Yann Forget <>:


2018-07-04 12:50 GMT+02:00 Maarten Dammers <>:

Hi Mathieu,

So I see you started forum shopping (trying to get the Wikimedia-l people
in) and making contentious trying to be funny remarks. That's usually a
good indication a thread is going nowhere.

No, Wikidata is not going to change the CC0. You seem to be the only
person wanting that and trying to discredit Wikidata will not help you in
your crusade. I suggest the people who are still interested in this to go
to and make useful comments
over there.

I concur totally with analysis.


Yann Forget
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