Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Inc. working with Go Fish Digital, a company that whitewashes Wikipedia

[Gregory Varnum]

Hello,

Thank you to everyone that has provided thoughtful and constructive input on 
this discussion, and to the volunteers who are investigating the possible 
policy violations. We have some additional information on this vendor 
relationship and on steps being taken that we believe will be helpful to this 
discussion.

The Wikimedia Foundation entered into a short-term contract with Go Fish 
Digital to conduct a search engine optimization (SEO) audit on Wikipedia. They 
were contracted to provide information needed by the Audiences department to 
improve how our sites communicate with search engines and services which 
provide data to devices like artificial intelligence (AI) assistants. Overall, 
SEO performance is a strength of our projects, but we were able to identify 
areas for improvement, and the audit was helpful for Audiences to more 
effectively focus their efforts. During discussions about Wikimedia values and 
activities that were held in selecting the vendor, they did not disclose 
anything which raised suspicion, and we failed to identify this specific 
concern and question them about it more.

The Foundation's Legal department received the proposal after it had been 
approved by Audiences and drafted a contract for this agreement following 
standard procedures. This included a privacy review, which resulted in the 
inclusion of extra privacy and security protections in the contract. Their 
activities did not involve reputation management services, and they did not 
request or receive access to any Wikimedia user data. The contract concluded 
last month.

As we are now aware of the vendor's possible violations and feel they should 
have shared this information with us during discussions, we will not be 
pursuing any future working relationship with Go Fish Digital and will be 
requesting that they honor our contractual agreement by not discussing their 
past relationship with us for promotional purposes. Additionally, we are 
reviewing the way that this vendor was selected in an effort to see if we can 
identify what led to this issue and better identify these types of concerns 
when identifying future vendors and executing agreements with them. Finally, as 
they regularly do, our Trust and Safety team in Community Engagement are 
working with the functionaries investigating the possible policy violations.

Again, we appreciate the attention provided to this by the functionaries and 
others who raised these concerns. We agree that the Foundation should avoid 
working with vendors who violate our policies, and hope the discussion around 
this will help reduce the chances of this happening in the future.

Thank you,
-greg

---
Gregory Varnum
Communications Strategist
Wikimedia Foundation 
gvar...@wikimedia.org
Pronouns: He/Him/His


> On Jul 27, 2018, at 12:32 PM, Mario Gómez  wrote:
> 
> I have gathered more evidence and opened a sockpuppet investigation,
> omitting any parts involving personal data:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/BurritoSlayer
> 
> Personal data sent to functionaries-en@ is still relevant to verify some
> details, but I think that it is not crucial anymore to prove Go Fish
> Digital ongoing and undisclosed paid editing.
> 
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Mario Gómez 
> wrote:
> 
>> I will not post actual evidence to this mailing list. My notes as of
>> Sunday are already sent to functionaries and I'm sure they will act on it
>> themselves. As I collect more evidence, I might open a sockpuppet
>> investigation on English Wikipedia anyway if there is enough of it to
>> continue even without personal data, which is just a small part.
>> 
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>>> Without getting into whether an outing policy exists/applies here, please
>>> bear in mind that if redaction is required, it is rather difficult to do
>>> it
>>> on a mailing list, especially a mailman mailing list like this one.
>>> 
>>> i.e. Please avoid posting something here which may need redaction.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018, 16:00 Isaac Olatunde 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Mario,
 
 I don't think it will be considered harassment if the information is
>>> posted
 here. I believe the WP:OUTING applies to the English Wikipedia and this
>>> is
 not English Wikipedia mailing list.
 
 Regards,
 
 Isaac
 
 On Jul 22, 2018 5:43 PM, "Mario Gómez"  wrote:
 
 There, is at least, one user that works for Go Fish Digital with a
 sockpuppet account in English Wikipedia and has denied conflict of
>>> interest
 or paid editing disclosure even if he was asked too, since some user was
 suspicious. Should I send this privately? I don't want to incur in
>>> spurious
 ousting/doxxing.
 
 Best,
 
 Mario
 
 On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 12:24 AM, MZMcBride  wrote:
 
> Hi.
> 
> Go Fish Digital is a company that whitewashes Wikipedia. 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki-research-l] "State of Wikimedia Research" presentation at Wikimania 2018

[Eileen Hershenov]

Thank you also Pine!  I missed this at Wikimania and was so glad you posted
it.

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 9:31 PM Tilman Bayer  wrote:

> Thanks, Pine! The slide deck (with notes) for this presentation is at
> https://mako.cc/talks/201807-wikimania_research.pdf .
> And a general reminder that for monthly and daily (instead of yearly)
> research updates, you are welcome to subscribe to our newsletter and
> Twitter feed:  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Newsletter /
> https://twitter.com/WikiResearch
>
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 1:26 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > In case people are interested:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE2UQu3r6vE
> >
> >
> > The topics covered include:
> > * Media and images
> > * Talk page debates
> > * Comparisons of Wikipedia language editions
> > * Who is not participating?
> > * Wikipedia as a source of data
> >
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > ___
> > Wiki-research-l mailing list
> > wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Tilman Bayer
> Senior Analyst
> Wikimedia Foundation
> IRC (Freenode): HaeB
> ___
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-- 
Eileen B. Hershenov
General Counsel and Secretary
Wikimedia Foundation
1 Montgomery Street, Suite 1600

San Francisco, CA 94104

Registered In-House Counsel, State Bar of CA
Licensed in NY State
ehershe...@wikimedia.org
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wiki-research-l] "State of Wikimedia Research" presentation at Wikimania 2018

[Tilman Bayer]

Thanks, Pine! The slide deck (with notes) for this presentation is at
https://mako.cc/talks/201807-wikimania_research.pdf .
And a general reminder that for monthly and daily (instead of yearly)
research updates, you are welcome to subscribe to our newsletter and
Twitter feed:  https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Newsletter /
https://twitter.com/WikiResearch

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 1:26 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> In case people are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE2UQu3r6vE
>
>
> The topics covered include:
> * Media and images
> * Talk page debates
> * Comparisons of Wikipedia language editions
> * Who is not participating?
> * Wikipedia as a source of data
>
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> ___
> Wiki-research-l mailing list
> wiki-researc...@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>



-- 
Tilman Bayer
Senior Analyst
Wikimedia Foundation
IRC (Freenode): HaeB
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[Wikimedia-l] "State of Wikimedia Research" presentation at Wikimania 2018

[Pine W]

In case people are interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE2UQu3r6vE


The topics covered include:
* Media and images
* Talk page debates
* Comparisons of Wikipedia language editions
* Who is not participating?
* Wikipedia as a source of data


Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Inc. working with Go Fish Digital, a company that whitewashes Wikipedia

[Mario Gómez]

I have gathered more evidence and opened a sockpuppet investigation,
omitting any parts involving personal data:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/BurritoSlayer

Personal data sent to functionaries-en@ is still relevant to verify some
details, but I think that it is not crucial anymore to prove Go Fish
Digital ongoing and undisclosed paid editing.

On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 12:36 PM, Mario Gómez 
wrote:

> I will not post actual evidence to this mailing list. My notes as of
> Sunday are already sent to functionaries and I'm sure they will act on it
> themselves. As I collect more evidence, I might open a sockpuppet
> investigation on English Wikipedia anyway if there is enough of it to
> continue even without personal data, which is just a small part.
>
> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Without getting into whether an outing policy exists/applies here, please
>> bear in mind that if redaction is required, it is rather difficult to do
>> it
>> on a mailing list, especially a mailman mailing list like this one.
>>
>> i.e. Please avoid posting something here which may need redaction.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 26, 2018, 16:00 Isaac Olatunde 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Mario,
>> >
>> > I don't think it will be considered harassment if the information is
>> posted
>> > here. I believe the WP:OUTING applies to the English Wikipedia and this
>> is
>> > not English Wikipedia mailing list.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Isaac
>> >
>> > On Jul 22, 2018 5:43 PM, "Mario Gómez"  wrote:
>> >
>> > There, is at least, one user that works for Go Fish Digital with a
>> > sockpuppet account in English Wikipedia and has denied conflict of
>> interest
>> > or paid editing disclosure even if he was asked too, since some user was
>> > suspicious. Should I send this privately? I don't want to incur in
>> spurious
>> > ousting/doxxing.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Mario
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jul 22, 2018 at 12:24 AM, MZMcBride  wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi.
>> > >
>> > > Go Fish Digital is a company that whitewashes Wikipedia. From its own
>> > site:
>> > >
>> > > >The primary platforms that define your online reputation include:
>> > > > [...]
>> > > > * Wikipedia
>> > > > [...]
>> > > >
>> > > > With Online Reputation Management, we work hard to make all of the
>> > > >positive information easy to find.  At the same time, we use many
>> > > >different strategies and tactics to diminish the visibility of
>> negative
>> > > >content, or in some cases, remove it from the web altogether.  The
>> end
>> > > >result is a positive online reputation because when people search
>> your
>> > > >name or brand, they immediately find positive content.
>> > >
>> > > Source: https://gofishdigital.com/online-reputation-management
>> > >
>> > > Wikimedia Foundation Inc. has been working with this company on search
>> > > engine optimization: . I
>> > have a
>> > > few questions about this work.
>> > >
>> > > How was this vendor chosen? Which other vendors were considered?
>> > >
>> > > Why is this work being undertaken? At least the English Wikipedia has
>> > some
>> > > of the best search engine results placement of any site on the Web, so
>> > I'm
>> > > curious to know who's prioritizing Wikipedia's search engine
>> optimization
>> > > and for what reason.
>> > >
>> > > How is it appropriate for Wikimedia Foundation Inc. to work with a
>> > company
>> > > that is, by its own admission, whitewashing Wikipedia? Doesn't this
>> give
>> > > Go Fish Digital a ton of legitimization by now being able to say it
>> works
>> > > directly with Wikimedia Foundation Inc. ("with Wikipedia")?
>> > >
>> > > Is it appropriate to give a company that sells whitewashing Wikipedia
>> > > services access to private user data, as was done in
>> > >  and
>> > > ? The Wikimedia Foundation
>> > Inc.
>> > > legal department apparently approved this access, but I'm curious to
>> know
>> > > why, given the company's role in selling an "Online Reputation
>> > Management"
>> > > product. This looks bad to me.
>> > >
>> > > MZMcBride
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>> ,
>> > > 
>> > ___
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>> >  and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>> > Unsubscribe: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: First round of Working Group members

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

Hello Jane,

Yes, maybe I have been lucky for having to deal with a Wikipedia that,
despite having its fair share of problems, actually has not that kind of
strife. We have 2 major linguistic varieties there (different to the point
that stuff in European Portuguese is often subtitled in Brazil), and I
can't remember the last time we had any problem related to that. We used to
have some episodic problems, but since we passed a rule around 2011
declaring that articles directly related to a geographic region should use
the variety spoken in that geographic region, it ceased to be a problem.
Language/variety diversity is often seen there as a source of richness and
knowledge, and not as some kind of downside that people have to endure in
order to participate.

Some people of wiki.pt are also very active at the Mirandese and Galician
wikis, projects with which we often engage in close collaboration.

I'm also quite active at Commons, where we use mostly English, but a bit of
everything as well (many categories are written using 2 different
languages, for instance, and we often communicate in our native languages
over there, often in the same thread).

I wouldn't doubt that there are some people that despise languages
different from the one they speak, but I don't believe it's anywhere "split
down the middle". At least that is not my experience, at all.


All the best,


Paulo


2018-07-27 14:57 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :

> Well just speaking from my experience with the nlwiki community, there is
> often a tendency to e.g. delete Belgian versions of local folklore or
> cuisine, or merge these into Dutch local folklore or cuisine articles. I
> think in general, you could say that most mono-lingualists are fairly
> certain their country and by association, their language is the best, and
> any other speakers of their language should either conform or start their
> own wiki, never mind local grammar rules, etc. I am surprised you haven't
> come across this at all - consider yourself lucky!
>
> On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello Jane,
> >
> > >
> >
> > I think that we are in fact
> split down the middle into parties that believe
> > "some languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing
> > languages on the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and
> > offline".
> >
> > I don't know why do you wrote this, as I never had this impression, at
> > all. We are split by languages since the Babel Tower was embargoed by
> God,
> > but I never, ever remember hearing someone saying or even hinting that
> > "some languages are better than others".
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > Paulo
> >
> >
> > 2018-07-25 8:28 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :
> >
> > > Hmm. Yes and no. Yes the May 2017 conference suffered from some
> > interesting
> > > selection bias, but no the people there were not all brainwashed into
> > > forgetting their "wildness". We are all still wild wild Wikipedians at
> > > heart, speaking for the 2006 cohort in its entirety. I really doubt
> > whether
> > > the WMF is trying to shove us all in a direction of their choosing.
> > >
> > > I think
> > > that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe
> "some
> > > languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing
> languages
> > on
> > > the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and offline".
> Then
> > > there is a huge discrepancy in workflow for these people and the folks
> > who
> > > work in just one language and never think of language as a movement
> topic
> > > at all. Among this monolingual crowd (many of whom do not subscribe to
> > any
> > > mailing list or other communication outlets) are the overlapping groups
> > > between the "field workers" and the "library workers". The field
> workers
> > > tend to operate more by a "drive-by" methodology, and the "library
> > workers"
> > > tend to operate more by a "step-by-step" methodology. I respectfully
> > submit
> > > that we have all dabbled in all of these worlds and therefore we all
> have
> > > enough common sense to shout "Whoa!" if something really really wrong
> > gets
> > > proposed. But in the past I have felt quite strongly that something was
> > > really really wrong, but it turned out it was just a factor of me being
> > > unaware of workflow difficulties experienced by others. So e.g.
> > personally
> > > I was against the idea of "protected pages" but have come around to
> > seeing
> > > they are useful - even on Wikidata.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> > > m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
> > >
> > > > As I see it the strategy process is run for the functionaries in the
> > > > movement and by them. People with focus on contributing to the
> projects
> > > are
> > > > not involved, when volunteers is mentioned it is mostly people
> running
> > > > worskhops for beginners etc, a kind of semi functionaries, not the
> hard
> > > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: First round of Working Group members

[Jane Darnell]

Well just speaking from my experience with the nlwiki community, there is
often a tendency to e.g. delete Belgian versions of local folklore or
cuisine, or merge these into Dutch local folklore or cuisine articles. I
think in general, you could say that most mono-lingualists are fairly
certain their country and by association, their language is the best, and
any other speakers of their language should either conform or start their
own wiki, never mind local grammar rules, etc. I am surprised you haven't
come across this at all - consider yourself lucky!

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Jane,
>
> >
> ​
> I think that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe
> "some languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing
> languages on the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and
> offline".
>
> ​I don't know why do you wrote this, as I never had this impression, at
> all. We are split by languages since ​the Babel Tower was embargoed by God,
> but I never, ever remember hearing someone saying or even hinting that
> "some languages are better than others".
>
> All the best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
> 2018-07-25 8:28 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :
>
> > Hmm. Yes and no. Yes the May 2017 conference suffered from some
> interesting
> > selection bias, but no the people there were not all brainwashed into
> > forgetting their "wildness". We are all still wild wild Wikipedians at
> > heart, speaking for the 2006 cohort in its entirety. I really doubt
> whether
> > the WMF is trying to shove us all in a direction of their choosing.
> > ​​
> > I think
> > that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe "some
> > languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing languages
> on
> > the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and offline". Then
> > there is a huge discrepancy in workflow for these people and the folks
> who
> > work in just one language and never think of language as a movement topic
> > at all. Among this monolingual crowd (many of whom do not subscribe to
> any
> > mailing list or other communication outlets) are the overlapping groups
> > between the "field workers" and the "library workers". The field workers
> > tend to operate more by a "drive-by" methodology, and the "library
> workers"
> > tend to operate more by a "step-by-step" methodology. I respectfully
> submit
> > that we have all dabbled in all of these worlds and therefore we all have
> > enough common sense to shout "Whoa!" if something really really wrong
> gets
> > proposed. But in the past I have felt quite strongly that something was
> > really really wrong, but it turned out it was just a factor of me being
> > unaware of workflow difficulties experienced by others. So e.g.
> personally
> > I was against the idea of "protected pages" but have come around to
> seeing
> > they are useful - even on Wikidata.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> > m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
> >
> > > As I see it the strategy process is run for the functionaries in the
> > > movement and by them. People with focus on contributing to the projects
> > are
> > > not involved, when volunteers is mentioned it is mostly people running
> > > worskhops for beginners etc, a kind of semi functionaries, not the hard
> > > core contributes.
> > >
> > > This could be a good thing and foster a new set of moment leaders,
> fully
> > > in agreement with goals and strategy. It could also be seen as a
> > weakness,
> > > as we do not recognize the more "wild" (but creative)y culture in our
> > > communities and only have the "nice" and obedient culture being
> accepted.
> > >
> > > Facts
> > >
> > > The vision  was really created in Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The way forward was defined by Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The set up of work groups was from the beginning set up  to include
> > (only)
> > > functionaries (time requirement, and first it was also talked of
> > candidates
> > > should be endorsed by local chapters). And the actual selection was not
> > > done transparent as is the culture of the communities but by "boss"
> > > selection (I only feel the movement is starting to resemble a big
> > company,
> > > not the vibrant communities)
> > >
> > > Anders
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Den 2018-07-24 kl. 21:29, skrev Yaroslav Blanter:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:16 PM, David Cuenca Tudela <
> dacu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I do not know what really happened but if I listen to what has been
> said
> > >> here and earlier on similar occasions, my conclusion is that for the
> > >> Strategy Team we - volunteers who are working on the projects but are
> > not
> > >> associated with the chapters, do not show up at Wikimania, do not
> attend
> > >> real-life tutorials organized by WMF - just do not exist.
> > >>
> > >> If this is the case, this 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimania-l] Celebrating Wikimania 2018 online

[Yaroslav Blanter]

Hi Paulo,

in the first instance, I am interested in improving articles on the
Mozambique districts on the English Wikipedia. I have already done that for
the southern half of the country (Buzi District which I references to is a
representative example of how I see these articles).

I was not planning to do anything specific about these districts on
Wikidata or elsewhere, but if you think it would be useful we can discuss
and do smth.

(I will be on holidays for two weeks starting tomorrow, my user name is
Ymblanter).

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Fri, Jul 27, 2018 at 12:25 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
paulospern...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
> ​
> Yaroslav ,
>
> I'm working with Mozambique as well. I've been thinking about adding all
> those divisions to Wikidata, and then generating the Wikipédia articles
> from that info (not "live", though, just copying the information). I
> believe it would be much quicker, and would fill and correct Wikidata
> entries on the way.
>
> If you are interested in using something like that, please drop me a note.
>
> ​All the best,
>
> Paulo​
>
>
> 2018-07-26 17:25 GMT+01:00 Yaroslav Blanter :
>
> > Hi Gerard,
> >
> > when you come to Mozambique, pls let me know, there are reliable sources
> > down to the third level administrative divisions. For example, the two
> > sources present in
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzi_District
> >
> > are available for every district (though I so far only added about half
> of
> > them to the English Wikipedia articles).
> >
> > Cheers
> > ​​
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 26, 2018 at 3:01 PM, Gerard Meijssen <
> > gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hoi,
> > > I do blog and tweet using #AfricaGap..  At this time I am adding
> > countries
> > > and their "administrative and territorial entities" in Wikidata. In
> many
> > a
> > > Wikipedia, they want to have "human settlements" linked to the lowest
> > level
> > > and these to every time a higher level.
> > >
> > > What I do is add more and more countries. The information is
> incomplete.
> > It
> > > takes a lot of people and a lot of time to get this done. To gain
> > > participation, I add Listeria list to a set of Wikipedias. I work on
> > > cleaning up the data but there is much to be done. One of the benefits
> of
> > > the Listeria lists for me is that I notice any and all activity. After
> > > Wikimania there was a spike, thanks to some bot work.
> > >
> > > What I have noticed is that information on Wikipedias did not keep up
> > with
> > > changes that rearanged these "territories". Consequently start and end
> > > dates are missing on many items. For me, the current situation is most
> > > relevant and historic "territories" are not really considered by me.
> > >
> > > You find what I am working on here [1]. You will find much of the same
> > data
> > > on several (African language) Wikipedias.
> > > Thanks,
> > >  GerardM
> > >
> > >
> > > [1]
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:GerardM/Africa#African_
> > > geographical_subdivisions
> > >
> > > On 26 July 2018 at 12:33, KuboF Hromoslav 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Great idea Romaine!
> > > >
> > > > I am now working on Esperanto Wikivoyage (in Incubator), mostly to
> make
> > > it
> > > > fully working. Now I am finishing Europe and immediately after that I
> > > will
> > > > focus on Africa (not only for the Africagap and to help our
> colleagues
> > > but
> > > > also to support tourism and facilitate meetings in Africa).
> > > >
> > > > See you online!
> > > > KuboF Hromoslav
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > po 23. 7. 2018 o 20:25 Romaine Wiki 
> > napísal(a):
> > > >
> > > > > The official part of Wikimania is over, this does not prevent
> > ourselves
> > > > > from celebrating Africa's first Wikimania online, in more
> particular:
> > > > > writing Wikipedia articles.
> > > > >
> > > > > Africa is under represented in Wikipedia, by writing about it we
> both
> > > > > celebrate our great conference as well as we work on solving the
> > > > Africagap
> > > > >
> > > > > With some Dutchies we started the idea of having a list of like
> 10-20
> > > > > articles of subjects from Cape Town and surrounding area. For
> > example:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well-known park in Cape Town:
> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Company%27s_Garden
> > > > >
> > > > > The often referred to Dassie:
> > > > > https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q323847
> > > > >
> > > > > Input needed!
> > > > >
> > > > > Romaine
> > > > > ___
> > > > > Wikimania-l mailing list
> > > > > wikimani...@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
> > > > >
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: First round of Working Group members

[Balázs Viczián]

Hi All,

as someone around for 10+ years I must say never really felt reached out to
by these initiatives.

As the years passed I saw smaller and smaller chance to "get in" anywhere
without building some sort of a(n) (international) wiki career first, what
means years of stepping up on a corporate-esque ladder, spending the
appropriate time on each level, before becoming eligible to step up.

Note, we talk about an advisory board here, not decision making.

This pretty much kills volunteerism in the wikimedia movement.

If one suggestion can be shouted in from the sideline, I'd suggest to think
about excluding all who currently has or had in the past 12 months any
formal position in the movement (board members, committee members,
employees and all equivalent).

If anyone is interested in new voices.

Regards,
Balazs

Paulo Santos Perneta  ezt írta (2018. július 27.,
péntek):

> Hello Jane,
>
> >
> ​
> I think that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe
> "some languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing
> languages on the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and
> offline".
>
> ​I don't know why do you wrote this, as I never had this impression, at
> all. We are split by languages since ​the Babel Tower was embargoed by God,
> but I never, ever remember hearing someone saying or even hinting that
> "some languages are better than others".
>
> All the best,
>
> Paulo
>
>
> 2018-07-25 8:28 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :
>
> > Hmm. Yes and no. Yes the May 2017 conference suffered from some
> interesting
> > selection bias, but no the people there were not all brainwashed into
> > forgetting their "wildness". We are all still wild wild Wikipedians at
> > heart, speaking for the 2006 cohort in its entirety. I really doubt
> whether
> > the WMF is trying to shove us all in a direction of their choosing.
> > ​​
> > I think
> > that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe "some
> > languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing languages
> on
> > the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and offline". Then
> > there is a huge discrepancy in workflow for these people and the folks
> who
> > work in just one language and never think of language as a movement topic
> > at all. Among this monolingual crowd (many of whom do not subscribe to
> any
> > mailing list or other communication outlets) are the overlapping groups
> > between the "field workers" and the "library workers". The field workers
> > tend to operate more by a "drive-by" methodology, and the "library
> workers"
> > tend to operate more by a "step-by-step" methodology. I respectfully
> submit
> > that we have all dabbled in all of these worlds and therefore we all have
> > enough common sense to shout "Whoa!" if something really really wrong
> gets
> > proposed. But in the past I have felt quite strongly that something was
> > really really wrong, but it turned out it was just a factor of me being
> > unaware of workflow difficulties experienced by others. So e.g.
> personally
> > I was against the idea of "protected pages" but have come around to
> seeing
> > they are useful - even on Wikidata.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> > m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
> >
> > > As I see it the strategy process is run for the functionaries in the
> > > movement and by them. People with focus on contributing to the projects
> > are
> > > not involved, when volunteers is mentioned it is mostly people running
> > > worskhops for beginners etc, a kind of semi functionaries, not the hard
> > > core contributes.
> > >
> > > This could be a good thing and foster a new set of moment leaders,
> fully
> > > in agreement with goals and strategy. It could also be seen as a
> > weakness,
> > > as we do not recognize the more "wild" (but creative)y culture in our
> > > communities and only have the "nice" and obedient culture being
> accepted.
> > >
> > > Facts
> > >
> > > The vision  was really created in Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The way forward was defined by Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> > >
> > > The set up of work groups was from the beginning set up  to include
> > (only)
> > > functionaries (time requirement, and first it was also talked of
> > candidates
> > > should be endorsed by local chapters). And the actual selection was not
> > > done transparent as is the culture of the communities but by "boss"
> > > selection (I only feel the movement is starting to resemble a big
> > company,
> > > not the vibrant communities)
> > >
> > > Anders
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Den 2018-07-24 kl. 21:29, skrev Yaroslav Blanter:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:16 PM, David Cuenca Tudela <
> dacu...@gmail.com
> > >
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I do not know what really happened but if I listen to what has been
> said
> > >> here and earlier on similar occasions, my conclusion is that for the
> > >> Strategy Team we - 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation Inc. working with Go Fish Digital, a company that whitewashes Wikipedia

[geni]

On 23 July 2018 at 14:50, Gregory Varnum  wrote:
> Just a quick note that the Foundation will be replying to this soon. However 
> the people involved were participating in Wikimania and currently traveling - 
> so it may take us a few days to collect the information necessary for an 
> informed response. Thank you everyone for your patience.
>
> -greg
>

How much longer do you anticipate this taking?


-- 
geni

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Movement Strategy: First round of Working Group members

[Paulo Santos Perneta]

Hello Jane,

>
​
I think that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe
"some languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing
languages on the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and
offline".

​I don't know why do you wrote this, as I never had this impression, at
all. We are split by languages since ​the Babel Tower was embargoed by God,
but I never, ever remember hearing someone saying or even hinting that
"some languages are better than others".

All the best,

Paulo


2018-07-25 8:28 GMT+01:00 Jane Darnell :

> Hmm. Yes and no. Yes the May 2017 conference suffered from some interesting
> selection bias, but no the people there were not all brainwashed into
> forgetting their "wildness". We are all still wild wild Wikipedians at
> heart, speaking for the 2006 cohort in its entirety. I really doubt whether
> the WMF is trying to shove us all in a direction of their choosing.
> ​​
> I think
> that we are in fact split down the middle into parties that believe "some
> languages are better than others" and "let's save all existing languages on
> the planet, including all of their fonts ever used on- and offline". Then
> there is a huge discrepancy in workflow for these people and the folks who
> work in just one language and never think of language as a movement topic
> at all. Among this monolingual crowd (many of whom do not subscribe to any
> mailing list or other communication outlets) are the overlapping groups
> between the "field workers" and the "library workers". The field workers
> tend to operate more by a "drive-by" methodology, and the "library workers"
> tend to operate more by a "step-by-step" methodology. I respectfully submit
> that we have all dabbled in all of these worlds and therefore we all have
> enough common sense to shout "Whoa!" if something really really wrong gets
> proposed. But in the past I have felt quite strongly that something was
> really really wrong, but it turned out it was just a factor of me being
> unaware of workflow difficulties experienced by others. So e.g. personally
> I was against the idea of "protected pages" but have come around to seeing
> they are useful - even on Wikidata.
>
> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 10:12 PM, Anders Wennersten <
> m...@anderswennersten.se> wrote:
>
> > As I see it the strategy process is run for the functionaries in the
> > movement and by them. People with focus on contributing to the projects
> are
> > not involved, when volunteers is mentioned it is mostly people running
> > worskhops for beginners etc, a kind of semi functionaries, not the hard
> > core contributes.
> >
> > This could be a good thing and foster a new set of moment leaders, fully
> > in agreement with goals and strategy. It could also be seen as a
> weakness,
> > as we do not recognize the more "wild" (but creative)y culture in our
> > communities and only have the "nice" and obedient culture being accepted.
> >
> > Facts
> >
> > The vision  was really created in Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> >
> > The way forward was defined by Wikiconf 2017 by functionaries
> >
> > The set up of work groups was from the beginning set up  to include
> (only)
> > functionaries (time requirement, and first it was also talked of
> candidates
> > should be endorsed by local chapters). And the actual selection was not
> > done transparent as is the culture of the communities but by "boss"
> > selection (I only feel the movement is starting to resemble a big
> company,
> > not the vibrant communities)
> >
> > Anders
> >
> >
> >
> > Den 2018-07-24 kl. 21:29, skrev Yaroslav Blanter:
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 24, 2018 at 9:16 PM, David Cuenca Tudela  >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> I do not know what really happened but if I listen to what has been said
> >> here and earlier on similar occasions, my conclusion is that for the
> >> Strategy Team we - volunteers who are working on the projects but are
> not
> >> associated with the chapters, do not show up at Wikimania, do not attend
> >> real-life tutorials organized by WMF - just do not exist.
> >>
> >> If this is the case, this is a serious gap to be bridged. So far I have
> >> net
> >> see even an acknowledgement of its existence.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >> Yaroslav
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> >> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> >> i/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: