[Wikimedia-l] Re: Osama and Ziyad

[effe iets anders]

Thanks for this response - as little content as it may have. I can totally
understand it.

As I was reading the questions in this thread, I felt uneasy with the
questions, because I can imagine that there are people working on these
issues in our movement (whether in the WMF or not) who may have a strategy
in mind where silence is more helpful. Whether Andreas is asking these
questions because he wants to publish a story in the Signpost, or because
he wants to help personally, I do understand that there is a general desire
for more information and can't blame them for asking (as long as they in
turn understand that there may not be a meaningful answer when none can be
provided without harming the cause).

That being said, as a community we often take the approach of trying to
help. So let me ask the elephant-in-the-room question: how can we help
these individual cases as a community? I think what some of the community
members are trying to gauge is whether there is silence because it's
considered the safer thing to do, or that it is because there are not
enough resources available.

I could guess the answers of course, but perhaps it would be helpful to
know:
- If people/affiliates have a specific concern whether someone is on your
radar, where to send the message (I think this is already answered on your
linked meta page: send a private email)
- If people/affiliates want to help, who should they contact to know which
actions are actually helpful (i.e. be quiet or make noise)? Would it be
correct to assume that the community office hours would be the best venue?
- I'm assuming you may have an overview page somewhere with individual
cases you're actively 'making noise' about (e.g. a blog category/label).
Perhaps you could link that overview from the meta page?
- If the WMF sees no scenario where community involvement on this topic
would be helpful, is there another organization you would recommend to look
at instead?

Finally, there may be some Wikimedians who have concerns whether your
strategy is the right one. I'm not sure if you could speak to this, but for
them it might be interesting to know whether the WMF has a standard policy
to never speak about these individual cases, or will do so selectively,
when it's helpful (is it ever? I assume there are such situations, but I'm
no expert). Between the lines, I seem to infer that the WMF has a
'selectively' type of policy, but I also imagine that such communication
would likely come from the communication team, rather than directly from
the human rights team.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 3:51 PM WMF Human Rights <
talktohumanrig...@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> In the interest of safeguarding confidential information and ensuring the
> safety of our community members, the Foundation will not publicly disclose
> details regarding human rights cases. The Human Rights Team recently
> updated its meta page  to
> clarify this approach. Our primary concern is to uphold the safety and
> privacy of everyone involved. At the same time, our inability to discuss
> these matters should not be read as inaction. We care deeply about
> volunteer safety and our role, more generally, involves different levels of
> internal support, wider advocacy and partnerships with others depending on
> the circumstances of an event.
>
> On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 6:06 AM Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
>
>> Let's put it a different way then:
>>
>> Is anyone at the WMF doing anything in support of the two jailed Saudi
>> Wikimedians, be it liaising with international or regional human rights
>> organisations, the US State Department, briefing journalists so the wider
>> public is aware of the situation, or anything else to make sure Osama and
>> Ziyad aren't forgotten about as they start (by my calculation) their fourth
>> year in jail?
>>
>> I am asking because the press reports published at the start of this year
>> do not seem to have led to any significant coverage of the two Wikimedians'
>> plight on the websites of major human rights organisations. (If I have
>> missed any, please let me know.)
>>
>> For example, I found nothing at all on the website of Reporters without
>> Borders. Similarly, the most recent Amnesty International report on the
>> "crackdown on online expression" in Saudi Arabia includes several mentions
>> of Twitter users but none of Wikipedians:
>>
>>
>> https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/02/saudi-arabia-alarming-crackdown-on-online-expression/
>>
>> Amnesty's report specifically mentions that a Twitter user was sentenced
>> for supporting women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul but fails to
>> mention that one of the jailed Wikimedians uploaded Loujain al-Hathloul's
>> Commons picture, which is used in her Wikipedia articles.
>>
>> I didn't find anything about Osama and Ziyad or, more generally,
>> Wikimedians in Saudi Arabia on the website of the EFF.
>>
>> There is a mention of Osama and Ziyad and the 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Osama and Ziyad

[WMF Human Rights]

 In the interest of safeguarding confidential information and ensuring the
safety of our community members, the Foundation will not publicly disclose
details regarding human rights cases. The Human Rights Team recently
updated its meta page  to
clarify this approach. Our primary concern is to uphold the safety and
privacy of everyone involved. At the same time, our inability to discuss
these matters should not be read as inaction. We care deeply about
volunteer safety and our role, more generally, involves different levels of
internal support, wider advocacy and partnerships with others depending on
the circumstances of an event.

On Tue, Oct 3, 2023 at 6:06 AM Andreas Kolbe  wrote:

> Let's put it a different way then:
>
> Is anyone at the WMF doing anything in support of the two jailed Saudi
> Wikimedians, be it liaising with international or regional human rights
> organisations, the US State Department, briefing journalists so the wider
> public is aware of the situation, or anything else to make sure Osama and
> Ziyad aren't forgotten about as they start (by my calculation) their fourth
> year in jail?
>
> I am asking because the press reports published at the start of this year
> do not seem to have led to any significant coverage of the two Wikimedians'
> plight on the websites of major human rights organisations. (If I have
> missed any, please let me know.)
>
> For example, I found nothing at all on the website of Reporters without
> Borders. Similarly, the most recent Amnesty International report on the
> "crackdown on online expression" in Saudi Arabia includes several mentions
> of Twitter users but none of Wikipedians:
>
>
> https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/02/saudi-arabia-alarming-crackdown-on-online-expression/
>
> Amnesty's report specifically mentions that a Twitter user was sentenced
> for supporting women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul but fails to
> mention that one of the jailed Wikimedians uploaded Loujain al-Hathloul's
> Commons picture, which is used in her Wikipedia articles.
>
> I didn't find anything about Osama and Ziyad or, more generally,
> Wikimedians in Saudi Arabia on the website of the EFF.
>
> There is a mention of Osama and Ziyad and the fact that they were
> Wikipedians on the PEN website:
>
> https://pen.org/report/freedom-to-write-index-2022/
>
> The U.S. State Department's 2022 country report on Saudi Arabia, published
> in March 2023, includes a mention of Osama's 32-year prison sentence, but
> doesn't make clear that he was jailed for being a Wikipedian, and Ziyad is
> not mentioned:
>
>
> https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/saudi-arabia/
>
> Will this be remedied in the U.S. State Department's 2023 country report?
> I think each country report covers the period up to October of the
> preceding year, so this month will be the last chance to make sure the 2023
> report published next spring will include information on Osama and Ziyad's
> prison sentences and their Wikipedia activity.
>
> Andreas
>
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 11:09 PM The Cunctator 
> wrote:
>
>> Frankly, that's implausible.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:37 PM DerHexer via Wikimedia-l <
>> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I do think that posting any kind of response to these questions *on a
>>> public mailing list* would do more harm than good. Thank you.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> DerHexer
>>> *Wikimedia Steward*
>>>
>>> Am Montag, 25. September 2023 um 21:20:21 MESZ hat Andreas Kolbe <
>>> jayen...@gmail.com> Folgendes geschrieben:
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear all,
>>>
>>> As there was a recent press mention of Osama and Ziyad[1] (see "In the
>>> Media" in the current Signpost issue) – does the WMF's Human Rights Team
>>> (cc'ed) have any update on their situation?
>>>
>>> Has anyone else heard any news? If I recall correctly, Osama had married
>>> not long before being jailed in 2020 – has anyone been in touch with his
>>> wife?
>>>
>>> Is there anything the community can do?
>>>
>>> Andreas
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_imprisoned_for_editing_Wikipedia
>>> ___
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
>>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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>>> Public archives at
>>> 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Osama and Ziyad

[geni]

On Tue, 3 Oct 2023 at 14:07, Andreas Kolbe  wrote:
> Is anyone at the WMF doing anything in support of the two jailed Saudi 
> Wikimedians, be it liaising with international or regional human rights 
> organisations, the US State Department, briefing journalists so the wider 
> public is aware of the situation, or anything else to make sure Osama and 
> Ziyad aren't forgotten about as they start (by my calculation) their fourth 
> year in jail?

Given Mohammed bin Salman current apparent attitude towards the US
none of those can reasonably be considered "anything in support ".
Realisticaly the only things likely to have any impact would be
sactions (non viable due to wider issues with global oil suppliers) or
rather a lot of violence (which has some very obvious downsides). The
upshot is that US goverment has very little ability to do anything
(even if it wanted to) and the foundation not at all.



-- 
geni
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[Wikimedia-l] Outcomes of August Meeting for the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees

[Nataliia Tymkiv]

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Dear all,

The Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees held its most recent meeting in
Singapore and spent time with other attendees by hosting and participating
in multiple sessions throughout Wikimania. For example, we hosted a joint
session with the Wikimedia Endowment Board to answer questions and engage
with participants in small groups about the work of the Endowment and
Foundation boards [1]. Conversations covered a wide range of topics from
financial projections, to governance and elections, to how the Board is
addressing future trends like generative AI.

I would like to acknowledge the conference organisers, volunteers, and
staff who made this Wikimania gathering possible. It was an important
opportunity to connect and reconnect with many people, and to celebrate the
work of volunteers everywhere, especially from the ESEAP region. Thank you
to our hosts!

== Board Meeting ==

The official Board meeting took place on Tuesday, August 15. As the Board
had just met in late June to approve the Wikimedia Foundation’s annual plan
and budget, for this meeting we focused on longer-term strategic objectives
related to the work of the Foundation. The Board was once again joined by
representatives from the Movement Charter Drafting Committee for this
portion of our meeting.

Trustees began by unanimously approving the consent agenda [2], which
included re-appointing Esra’a Al Shafei
 and Raju
Narisetti  for
their final three-year terms.

The Board of Trustees currently has 12 members
:
one (1) Community Founder, six (6) community-and-affiliate-selected
Trustees, and five (5) board-selected Trustees (one of whom is currently
also a community member). Thank you to those who responded with suggestions
to our open call to consider nominations for the Audit Committee Chair [3]
[4] , as Tanya Capuano’s term ends next year, as it would be good to
identify and have a future replacement “shadowing” her for a bit in the
Audit Committee.

I can share that the search process ultimately identified a strong
candidate with relevant expertise in not-for-profit finance and endowments,
and the Board spent some time in Singapore discussing the Governance
Committee’s recommendation for a new Audit Chair. Over the past year, the
Board has been making intentional improvements in all of our processes
(e.g., recruitment, appointments, onboarding, succession planning) to
ensure Trustees with limited Wikimedia experience can use their first year
to participate in community conferences, events, and on-wiki discussions,
thus broadening their familiarity with our diverse communities and
projects.

We shall be making a more formal introduction shortly, with plans to seat
the new Audit Chair at our December meeting, as has been our practice for a
while now. Tanya Capuano has graciously agreed to convert to a volunteer
advisor member of the Audit Committee after she steps down from the
Trusteeship to ensure stability, continuity and institutional memory.

Finally, the consent agenda also included appointing trustee Lorenzo Losa
as Chair of the Product and Technology Committee, as Esra'a Al Shafei
stepped down from this position [5], and approval of the June Board meeting
minutes [6].

You can see the current Board committee membership list on the Foundation
wiki here [7].

The Board received an update on the Wikimedia Foundation Affiliates
Recognition Strategy report, which is focused on a small number of
recommendations related to the workings of the Affiliations Committee
(AffCom). You can read the original announcement here [8] and the call for
participation here [9]. The full report has also been shared with AffCom
and will be published after legal review. Additional next steps will be
shared soon. The Board then spent time reflecting on the Wikimedia
Foundation’s newly refreshed values [10], and how these can better define
ways of working for the Foundation as part of the broader Wikimedia
movement.

Finally, the Board reviewed feedback reports for the Wikimedia Foundation
CEO, as part of her formal evaluation, and also for all Trustees, as part
of individual development/growth and collective succession planning for
future Board leadership.

== Committee Meetings ==

Board committees (Product and Technology, Talent & Culture, and the
Community Affairs Committee Sister Project Task Force) also used this event
as an opportunity to have their meetings in person.

== Movement Charter Drafting Committee 

[Wikimedia-l] Re: Osama and Ziyad

[Andreas Kolbe]

Let's put it a different way then:

Is anyone at the WMF doing anything in support of the two jailed Saudi
Wikimedians, be it liaising with international or regional human rights
organisations, the US State Department, briefing journalists so the wider
public is aware of the situation, or anything else to make sure Osama and
Ziyad aren't forgotten about as they start (by my calculation) their fourth
year in jail?

I am asking because the press reports published at the start of this year
do not seem to have led to any significant coverage of the two Wikimedians'
plight on the websites of major human rights organisations. (If I have
missed any, please let me know.)

For example, I found nothing at all on the website of Reporters without
Borders. Similarly, the most recent Amnesty International report on the
"crackdown on online expression" in Saudi Arabia includes several mentions
of Twitter users but none of Wikipedians:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/02/saudi-arabia-alarming-crackdown-on-online-expression/

Amnesty's report specifically mentions that a Twitter user was sentenced
for supporting women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul but fails to
mention that one of the jailed Wikimedians uploaded Loujain al-Hathloul's
Commons picture, which is used in her Wikipedia articles.

I didn't find anything about Osama and Ziyad or, more generally,
Wikimedians in Saudi Arabia on the website of the EFF.

There is a mention of Osama and Ziyad and the fact that they were
Wikipedians on the PEN website:

https://pen.org/report/freedom-to-write-index-2022/

The U.S. State Department's 2022 country report on Saudi Arabia, published
in March 2023, includes a mention of Osama's 32-year prison sentence, but
doesn't make clear that he was jailed for being a Wikipedian, and Ziyad is
not mentioned:

https://www.state.gov/reports/2022-country-reports-on-human-rights-practices/saudi-arabia/

Will this be remedied in the U.S. State Department's 2023 country report? I
think each country report covers the period up to October of the preceding
year, so this month will be the last chance to make sure the 2023 report
published next spring will include information on Osama and Ziyad's prison
sentences and their Wikipedia activity.

Andreas



On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 11:09 PM The Cunctator  wrote:

> Frankly, that's implausible.
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:37 PM DerHexer via Wikimedia-l <
> wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
>> I do think that posting any kind of response to these questions *on a
>> public mailing list* would do more harm than good. Thank you.
>>
>> Best,
>> DerHexer
>> *Wikimedia Steward*
>>
>> Am Montag, 25. September 2023 um 21:20:21 MESZ hat Andreas Kolbe <
>> jayen...@gmail.com> Folgendes geschrieben:
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As there was a recent press mention of Osama and Ziyad[1] (see "In the
>> Media" in the current Signpost issue) – does the WMF's Human Rights Team
>> (cc'ed) have any update on their situation?
>>
>> Has anyone else heard any news? If I recall correctly, Osama had married
>> not long before being jailed in 2020 – has anyone been in touch with his
>> wife?
>>
>> Is there anything the community can do?
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>> [1]
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_imprisoned_for_editing_Wikipedia
>> ___
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines
>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/CSBF3UGYR7BDU5XPYZFYQAABPXXY5PDG/
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>
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