Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-11 Thread James Forrester 
On 11 January 2013 02:12, Federico Leva (Nemo)  wrote:
> Andrew Gray, 11/01/2013 10:34:
>
>> * moving their positioning (eg, to beside the header text, as is done on
>> fr.wp
>
> This has been known to be needed for years, but it waiting for some coding.
> 

See https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41729 which Ori
just assigned to himself yesterday.

J.
--
James D. Forrester
Product Manager, VisualEditor
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.

jforres...@wikimedia.org | @jdforrester

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-11 Thread Federico Leva (Nemo) 

Andrew Gray, 11/01/2013 10:34:

* moving their positioning (eg, to beside the header text, as is done on
fr.wp


This has been known to be needed for years, but it waiting for some coding.


Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-11 Thread Andrew Gray 
One important thing to bear in mind: the top-of-article "edit" tab is not
the only way into the article. Many new contributors go straight in through
section-edit links. Indeed, an awful lot of them *only* see the
section-edit links and never notice the edit tab at the top, or don't
realise what it means.

(One of the most common OTRS queries is some variant on "how do I edit the
first section")

As a result, a few other things we could try A/B testing:

* adding a top-section [edit] link for some users (already a preferences
option)
* highlighting section-edit links in some way
* moving their positioning (eg, to beside the header text, as is done on
fr.wp
* switch "edit" to "improve" or "contribute"

All of these should be fairly simple and low-impact, except for the fourth
one - which could be quite confusing given that all our literature & help
pages talk about "edit" tabs :-)

- Andrew.

On Wednesday, 9 January 2013, Jan Kučera wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> everybody speaks here about editor retention and how we dont know the
> reasons for editing decline. What about highlighting the the edit tab some
> special color (maybe red) like this:
>
> http://postimage.org/image/u7060y3bf/
>
> Kozuch
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  andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-10 Thread Bence Damokos 
The correct link is vi.wikipedia.org

This vi.wikipedAI.org domain should be checked out by Legal at WMF,
though...

Best regards,
Bence


On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Mono  wrote:

> On vi.wikipedai.org the non mainspaces are green - maybe just a tab like
> that?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Jérémie Roquet 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > 2013/1/9 Amir E. Aharoni :
> > > I believe that Polish and French had special designs for it in the
> > > past, but they appear to be regular now.
> >
> > On the French Wikipedia, It has been bold, white on blue, then green,
> > then we removed everything in 2009¹.
> >
> > > How effective was it? I don't know.
> >
> > That's the whole problem, we didn't know either: if it had any impact,
> > it wasn't obvious. What was sure, however, is that is wasn't pretty :)
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > ¹
> >
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Sondage/Retrait_de_la_couleur_du_bouton_%C2%AB_Modifier_%C2%BB
> >
> > --
> > Jérémie
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-10 Thread Mono 
On vi.wikipedai.org the non mainspaces are green - maybe just a tab like
that?



On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Jérémie Roquet  wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> 2013/1/9 Amir E. Aharoni :
> > I believe that Polish and French had special designs for it in the
> > past, but they appear to be regular now.
>
> On the French Wikipedia, It has been bold, white on blue, then green,
> then we removed everything in 2009¹.
>
> > How effective was it? I don't know.
>
> That's the whole problem, we didn't know either: if it had any impact,
> it wasn't obvious. What was sure, however, is that is wasn't pretty :)
>
> Best regards,
>
> ¹
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Sondage/Retrait_de_la_couleur_du_bouton_%C2%AB_Modifier_%C2%BB
>
> --
> Jérémie
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-10 Thread Jérémie Roquet 
Hi everyone,

2013/1/9 Amir E. Aharoni :
> I believe that Polish and French had special designs for it in the
> past, but they appear to be regular now.

On the French Wikipedia, It has been bold, white on blue, then green,
then we removed everything in 2009¹.

> How effective was it? I don't know.

That's the whole problem, we didn't know either: if it had any impact,
it wasn't obvious. What was sure, however, is that is wasn't pretty :)

Best regards,

¹ 
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Sondage/Retrait_de_la_couleur_du_bouton_%C2%AB_Modifier_%C2%BB

-- 
Jérémie

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Steven Walling 
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Matthew Roth  wrote:

> Steven's link, without the extra "is" in it:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editor_engagement_experiments
>

Thanks Matthew. :)
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Matthew Roth 
Steven's link, without the extra "is" in it:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editor_engagement_experiments

On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:54 PM, Steven Walling wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Jan Kučera  wrote:
>
> > Yes this was quick (and maybe little ugly) mockup, but the idea is
> simple.
> > Someone from E3 team around here for comments?
> >
>
> Hey, E3 team member here.
>
> I agree with Sage for sure. The real value of A/B testing this particular
> change or a variation of it, is to help everyone decide what the ideal
> change might be (e.g. red vs bold vs an icon) and what impact each of those
> options have in comparison to each other and/or to a baseline. That way we
> can still make judgement calls with the input of design expertise and even
> consensus, but conversation can form around data, rather than just opinion.
>
> If anyone wants to write a description of a test like this they want to
> see, then you are always welcome to post it to MediaWiki.org or Meta, and
> get our attention. Being bold and adding it to the list of planned
> experiments
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editor_engagement_experimentsis
> a good way to do so. :)
>
> Even if we may not always have the bandwidth to do these experiments
> ourselves immediately, we are always happy to gather ideas for future work,
> since we regularly have time to run smaller experiments on the side. We can
> also help you set up an experiment and work through the data
> collection/analysis cycle.
>
> Steven
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-- 

Matthew Roth
Global Communications Manager
Wikimedia Foundation
+1.415.839.6885 ext 6635
www.wikimediafoundation.org
*https://donate.wikimedia.org*
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Steven Walling 
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Jan Kučera  wrote:

> Yes this was quick (and maybe little ugly) mockup, but the idea is simple.
> Someone from E3 team around here for comments?
>

Hey, E3 team member here.

I agree with Sage for sure. The real value of A/B testing this particular
change or a variation of it, is to help everyone decide what the ideal
change might be (e.g. red vs bold vs an icon) and what impact each of those
options have in comparison to each other and/or to a baseline. That way we
can still make judgement calls with the input of design expertise and even
consensus, but conversation can form around data, rather than just opinion.

If anyone wants to write a description of a test like this they want to
see, then you are always welcome to post it to MediaWiki.org or Meta, and
get our attention. Being bold and adding it to the list of planned
experiments https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Editor_engagement_experimentsis
a good way to do so. :)

Even if we may not always have the bandwidth to do these experiments
ourselves immediately, we are always happy to gather ideas for future work,
since we regularly have time to run smaller experiments on the side. We can
also help you set up an experiment and work through the data
collection/analysis cycle.

Steven
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Jan Kučera 
Yes this was quick (and maybe little ugly) mockup, but the idea is simple.
Someone from E3 team around here for comments?


2013/1/9 Mono 

> I'm sorry, but that is rather ugly. However, a new Wikipedia interface
> could definitely make the read/edit switcher more prominent or we could
> have a echo-style popup.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <
> amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>
> > 2013/1/9 Jan Kučera :
> > > Hi there,
> > >
> > > everybody speaks here about editor retention and how we dont know the
> > > reasons for editing decline. What about highlighting the the edit tab
> > some
> > > special color (maybe red) like this:
> >
> > Similar things were done in Wikipedias in several languages.
> >
> > The edit link is bold in Catalan (ca), Basque (eu) and Croatian (hr).
> > It is even more emphasized in Low German (nds).
> >
> > I believe that Polish and French had special designs for it in the
> > past, but they appear to be regular now.
> >
> > How effective was it? I don't know.
> >
> > Doing an A/B test of this should be quite easy, and can be done in any
> > language.
> >
> > --
> > Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> > http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> > ‪“We're living in pieces,
> > I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Mono 
I'm sorry, but that is rather ugly. However, a new Wikipedia interface
could definitely make the read/edit switcher more prominent or we could
have a echo-style popup.


On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 11:55 AM, Amir E. Aharoni <
amir.ahar...@mail.huji.ac.il> wrote:

> 2013/1/9 Jan Kučera :
> > Hi there,
> >
> > everybody speaks here about editor retention and how we dont know the
> > reasons for editing decline. What about highlighting the the edit tab
> some
> > special color (maybe red) like this:
>
> Similar things were done in Wikipedias in several languages.
>
> The edit link is bold in Catalan (ca), Basque (eu) and Croatian (hr).
> It is even more emphasized in Low German (nds).
>
> I believe that Polish and French had special designs for it in the
> past, but they appear to be regular now.
>
> How effective was it? I don't know.
>
> Doing an A/B test of this should be quite easy, and can be done in any
> language.
>
> --
> Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
> http://aharoni.wordpress.com
> ‪“We're living in pieces,
> I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬
>
> ___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Amir E. Aharoni 
2013/1/9 Jan Kučera :
> Hi there,
>
> everybody speaks here about editor retention and how we dont know the
> reasons for editing decline. What about highlighting the the edit tab some
> special color (maybe red) like this:

Similar things were done in Wikipedias in several languages.

The edit link is bold in Catalan (ca), Basque (eu) and Croatian (hr).
It is even more emphasized in Low German (nds).

I believe that Polish and French had special designs for it in the
past, but they appear to be regular now.

How effective was it? I don't know.

Doing an A/B test of this should be quite easy, and can be done in any language.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Richard Nevell 
Given that our editors will always be a fraction of our readership, we want
to provide a pleasant reading experience and I don't think a red edit
button (at least in the manner proposed) would help with that. Something
more discrete such as bolding the word edit may serve to place more
emphasis on it.

Richard Nevell

On 9 January 2013 18:43, Jan Kučera  wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> everybody speaks here about editor retention and how we dont know the
> reasons for editing decline. What about highlighting the the edit tab some
> special color (maybe red) like this:
>
> http://postimage.org/image/u7060y3bf/
>
> Kozuch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Sage Ross 
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Jan Kučera  wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> everybody speaks here about editor retention and how we dont know the
> reasons for editing decline. What about highlighting the the edit tab some
> special color (maybe red) like this:
>
> http://postimage.org/image/u7060y3bf/

That's an interesting idea. Maybe it gradually transitions from the
current look for Featured Articles, to something bright and
eye-catching for a tiny stub with cleanup tags.

More broadly, I wonder if the E3 team could test a bunch of minor
interface changes like that simultaneously, to see what (if anything)
people can come up with that makes a big impact with a small change.
I'm there are many little CSS changes that could be interesting to
test.

-Sage

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[Wikimedia-l] Featuring the edit tab in Vector (by making it red)

2013-01-09 Thread Jan Kučera 
Hi there,

everybody speaks here about editor retention and how we dont know the
reasons for editing decline. What about highlighting the the edit tab some
special color (maybe red) like this:

http://postimage.org/image/u7060y3bf/

Kozuch
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