Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
David Gerard, 26/10/2012 11:06: Note the suggestion: set aside $1m of tech resources for community-chosen work. Heck, projects other than Wikipedia might get the slightest attention. WMDE has done this since 2010 with WissenWert and they budgeted 250.000 € for 2013, they'd surely have the competence to expand it (if they want). I've added some links to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants Maybe the FDC could kindly ask them to take a million instead of what they asked, and make it global. ;) Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
Thanks, Nemo, but WissensWert is not the same as the Community Project Budget. WissensWert is a contest for projects also from out of the Wikimedia scope and with a budget of less than 5.000 Euros per project. http://wikimedia.de/wiki/Wissenswert Community Project Budget is supporting projects with a budget from over 5.000 Euro and is budgeted with 250k in 2013. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community-Projektbudget I will change the information on the meta grants page. Happy to answer further questions, all best, Nicole On 26 October 2012 11:53, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: David Gerard, 26/10/2012 11:06: Note the suggestion: set aside $1m of tech resources for community-chosen work. Heck, projects other than Wikipedia might get the slightest attention. WMDE has done this since 2010 with WissenWert and they budgeted 250.000 € for 2013, they'd surely have the competence to expand it (if they want). I've added some links to https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants Maybe the FDC could kindly ask them to take a million instead of what they asked, and make it global. ;) Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Nicole Ebber Projektmanagerin Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | NEU: Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin Tel. +49 30 219158 26-0 http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
Nicole Ebber, 26/10/2012 13:11: Thanks, Nemo, but WissensWert is not the same as the Community Project Budget. WissensWert is a contest for projects also from out of the Wikimedia scope and with a budget of less than 5.000 Euros per project. http://wikimedia.de/wiki/Wissenswert Community Project Budget is supporting projects with a budget from over 5.000 Euro and is budgeted with 250k in 2013. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community-Projektbudget I will change the information on the meta grants page. Thank you and sorry for the mistake, I got the names a bit confused in my mind. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
I`m wondering why this discussion is on the English Wikipedia since it concerns all projects, it should be on Meta in my opinion. Thanks, JP Beland aka Amqui 2012/10/26, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: Note the suggestion: set aside $1m of tech resources for community-chosen work. Heck, projects other than Wikipedia might get the slightest attention. - d. -- Forwarded message -- From: WereSpielChequers werespielchequ...@gmail.com Date: 26 October 2012 09:25 Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people To: English Wikipedia wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org Hi Guillaume, Firstly move Bugzilla to Meta. Currently it is a different user experience to the rest of our wikis, and it isn't even part of the Single User Login. Secondly try to shift from a developer led Software program to more of a community led one. Yes of course there are going to be things going on which have to happen anyway for valid technical reasons, from what I've seen the WMF has a significant budget to invest on programming changes. But there isn't a way for the community to prioritise development projects. So part of the clash is the dissonance between the community empowerment ethos which is the norm for most community activities, and the disempowerment that characterises community involvement in IT development. If a million dollars of the annual IT budget was set aside for projects that the community could suggest and prioritise via a page on meta, then the relationship between IT and the community would be transformed, as would be the project. WSC On 25 October 2012 14:07, Guillaume Paumier guillom@gmail.com wrote: Hi, [Posting this from my personal address because I'm not subscribed to the list with my work account.] I've started a discussion on the technical Village pump on how to establish a better dialogue between editors and tech people (developers, Wikimedia engineers, etc.): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28technical%29#Improving_communication_between_editors_and_.22tech_people.22 I'd love to get more comments and suggestions, so that the outcome isn't only representative of the subset of the community who reads VP/T. You can participate there or here on the list, I'll follow both. Also, feel free to advertise this discussions to fellow editors, particularly those whom you know to be interested in these issues. Thanks! Below is the text I've posted on VP/T: --- Hi. I'm posting this as part of my job for the WMF, where I currently work on technical communications. As you'll probably agree, communication between Wikipedia contributors and tech people (primarily MediaWiki developers, but also designers and other engineers) hasn't always been ideal. In recent years, Wikimedia employees have made efforts to become more transparent, for example by writing monthly activity reports, by providing hubs listing current activities, and by maintaining activity pages for each significant activity. Furthermore, the yearly engineering goals for the WMF were developed publicly, and the more granular Roadmap is updated weekly. Now, that's all well and such, but what I'd rather like to discuss is how we can better engage in true collaboration and 2-way discussion, not just reports and announcements. It's easy to post a link to a new feature that's already been implemented, and tell users Please provide feedback!. It's much more difficult to truly collaborate every step of the way, from the early planning to deployment. Some big tech projects are lucky enough to have Oliver Keyes who can spend a lot of time discussing with local wiki communities, basically incarnating this 2-way communication channel between users and developers. The $1 million question is: how do we scale up the Oliver? We want to be able to do this for dozens of engineering projects with hundreds of wikis, in many languages, and truly collaborate to build new features together. There are probably things in the way we do tech stuff (e.g. new software features and deployments) that drive you insane. You probably have lots of ideas about what the ideal situation should be, and how to get there: What can the developer community (staff and volunteers) do to get there? (in the short term, medium term, long term?) What can users do to get there? I certainly don't claim to have all the answers, and I can't do a proper job to improve things without your help. So please help me help make your lives easier, and speak up. This is intended to be a very open discussion. Unapologetic complaining is fine; suggestions are also welcome. Stock of ponies is limited. -- Guillaume Paumier [[m:User:guillom]] http://www.gpaumier.org ___ WikiEN-l mailing list wikie...@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from this mailing list,
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
Hi, On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:26 PM, JP Béland lebo.bel...@gmail.com wrote: I`m wondering why this discussion is on the English Wikipedia since it concerns all projects, it should be on Meta in my opinion. To avoid the Not my wiki effect [1], I've chosen to start multiple discussions on local wikis instead of a central one on meta. This week, I'm focusing on all English and French language wikis, and I'm planning to expand to other languages next week. With that in mind, I welcome comments on this list as well, and if you'd like to start the discussion on your wiki now, please feel free to do so; your help will be much appreciated. [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Not_my_wiki -- Guillaume Paumier Technical Communications Manager — Wikimedia Foundation https://donate.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
On 26 October 2012 20:05, JP Béland lebo.bel...@gmail.com wrote: There isn't such things as my wiki or your wiki... it's all our wikis. Ideally, yes. In practice, no. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
I read a while back something saying that no article on Wikipedia belongs to anybody, meaning that despite how much you contributed to it, anybody else is also entitled (for lack of a better term) to modify it and contribute to it. I would like to see that policy or way of seeing things expanded to the Wikis themselves. When reading things like my wiki, it seems like we are incorporating a sense of possession in the way we see things. I mean, after all, Wikipedia really belong to its readers, not its contributors anyway. I guess it's more rhetoric than anything... JP 2012/10/26, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com: On 26 October 2012 20:05, JP Béland lebo.bel...@gmail.com wrote: There isn't such things as my wiki or your wiki... it's all our wikis. Ideally, yes. In practice, no. - d. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] Fwd: [WikiEN-l] Improving dialogue between editors and tech people
On 10/26/2012 1:49 PM, JP Béland wrote: I read a while back something saying that no article on Wikipedia belongs to anybody, meaning that despite how much you contributed to it, anybody else is also entitled (for lack of a better term) to modify it and contribute to it. I would like to see that policy or way of seeing things expanded to the Wikis themselves. When reading things like my wiki, it seems like we are incorporating a sense of possession in the way we see things. I mean, after all, Wikipedia really belong to its readers, not its contributors anyway. I guess it's more rhetoric than anything... That's true, but it deals with a separate problem. When we say that nobody owns a Wikipedia article, it's because people may be doing things to take possession of it (editing), but we all must be willing to share ownership with everyone else. In the context of encouraging dialogue between groups that rarely interact, the issue is not that too many people are claiming ownership, but that nobody is. These people may have the same ideals, but it's asking them to occupy a new and unfamiliar workspace that they may not have the time or attention for. It's the difference between a toy that all the children want to play with (and end up fighting over), and the lonely and neglected toy in the corner that none of them show any interest in. --Michael Snow ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
