Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing and the privacy policy

2016-07-01 Thread Pine W 
Hi Nathan,

Differing views about good uses of this list are fine. However, I have an
optimistic view of the ideal uses and benefits of this list, which may
include civil debates and a wide range of meta discussions. Having stated
my views, and wishing to maintain a respectful tone, this is the last email
that I intend to read or send on this thread.

Have a good evening,

Pine
On Jul 1, 2016 16:47, "Nathan"  wrote:

> Paid editing is addressed in the WMF terms of service and is a problem that
> has confronted or will confront most of the prominent projects in the
> movement. An alert to an RfC regarding principles of broader import, and a
> small amount of linked discussion, seems to be a perfectly reasonable use
> of the list. Wikimedia-L need not be only announcements, messages of thanks
> and congratulations, and grousing about etiquette or WMF internal politics.
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:36 PM, Pine W  wrote:
>
> > Yes, it's a very quiet list. However, I'm an advocate of being mindful of
> > scope. I've long advocated for wiki-specific discussions to happen on the
> > wiki and/or mailing lists which are best suited to them rather than
> > Wikimedia-l unless an issue is escalating to a meta-type discussion. This
> > is one of those discussions that, from my perspective, is best suited
> for a
> > different venue. I'm not a list moderator though, so this is just a
> > request/suggestion.
> >
> > Pine
> > On Jul 1, 2016 16:20, "David Gerard"  wrote:
> >
> > > Technically maybe, but wikien-l is pretty much long dead at this point.
> > >
> > > On 2 July 2016 at 00:14, Pine W  wrote:
> > > > Hi Tomasz,
> > > >
> > > > The Ombudsman Commission's scope, as I understand it, includes
> > > > investigations of violations of the privacy policy under certain
> > > > circumstances. So far as I know, the OC does not *create or modify*
> the
> > > > policies that it is tasked to enforce, much like how most police
> > > > departments don't create or modify the laws that they enforce. Please
> > see
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
> > > >
> > > > That said, because the scope of this RfC is specific to ENWP, I
> believe
> > > > that the best list for an email discussion would probably be
> WikiEN-l.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > > James,
> > > >
> > > > The proper body to ask this question is Ombudsmen Commission.
> > > >
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2016-07-01 8:47 GMT+02:00 James Heilman :
> > > >
> > > >> Hey All
> > > >>
> > > >> On the English Wikipedia we are having a RfC regarding what is
> allowed
> > > > when
> > > >> trying to address undisclosed paid promotional editing.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Can_other_site_accounts_ever_be_linked_to
> > > >>
> > > >> Specifically we are discussing if this statement is allowed "Here we
> > > have
> > > >> someone who is buying an article on Anthony LaPine. They have
> already
> > > >> bought an article on HipLink and this sock created it
> UserJuliecameo3
> > > who
> > > >> is already blocked."
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard=679657047#Checking_Elance
> > > >>
> > > >> Or are no external links to other accounts allowed to be linked to
> > > >> Wikipedia?
> > > >>
> > > >> Best
> > > >> --
> > > >> James Heilman
> > > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > > >>
> > > >> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > > >> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> > > >> ___
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > >> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >>  ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > 
> > > > ___
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
>

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing and the privacy policy

2016-07-01 Thread Nathan 
Paid editing is addressed in the WMF terms of service and is a problem that
has confronted or will confront most of the prominent projects in the
movement. An alert to an RfC regarding principles of broader import, and a
small amount of linked discussion, seems to be a perfectly reasonable use
of the list. Wikimedia-L need not be only announcements, messages of thanks
and congratulations, and grousing about etiquette or WMF internal politics.

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 7:36 PM, Pine W  wrote:

> Yes, it's a very quiet list. However, I'm an advocate of being mindful of
> scope. I've long advocated for wiki-specific discussions to happen on the
> wiki and/or mailing lists which are best suited to them rather than
> Wikimedia-l unless an issue is escalating to a meta-type discussion. This
> is one of those discussions that, from my perspective, is best suited for a
> different venue. I'm not a list moderator though, so this is just a
> request/suggestion.
>
> Pine
> On Jul 1, 2016 16:20, "David Gerard"  wrote:
>
> > Technically maybe, but wikien-l is pretty much long dead at this point.
> >
> > On 2 July 2016 at 00:14, Pine W  wrote:
> > > Hi Tomasz,
> > >
> > > The Ombudsman Commission's scope, as I understand it, includes
> > > investigations of violations of the privacy policy under certain
> > > circumstances. So far as I know, the OC does not *create or modify* the
> > > policies that it is tasked to enforce, much like how most police
> > > departments don't create or modify the laws that they enforce. Please
> see
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
> > >
> > > That said, because the scope of this RfC is specific to ENWP, I believe
> > > that the best list for an email discussion would probably be WikiEN-l.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > James,
> > >
> > > The proper body to ask this question is Ombudsmen Commission.
> > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2016-07-01 8:47 GMT+02:00 James Heilman :
> > >
> > >> Hey All
> > >>
> > >> On the English Wikipedia we are having a RfC regarding what is allowed
> > > when
> > >> trying to address undisclosed paid promotional editing.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Can_other_site_accounts_ever_be_linked_to
> > >>
> > >> Specifically we are discussing if this statement is allowed "Here we
> > have
> > >> someone who is buying an article on Anthony LaPine. They have already
> > >> bought an article on HipLink and this sock created it UserJuliecameo3
> > who
> > >> is already blocked."
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard=679657047#Checking_Elance
> > >>
> > >> Or are no external links to other accounts allowed to be linked to
> > >> Wikipedia?
> > >>
> > >> Best
> > >> --
> > >> James Heilman
> > >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> > >>
> > >> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > >> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> > >> ___
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe:

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing and the privacy policy

2016-07-01 Thread Pine W 
Yes, it's a very quiet list. However, I'm an advocate of being mindful of
scope. I've long advocated for wiki-specific discussions to happen on the
wiki and/or mailing lists which are best suited to them rather than
Wikimedia-l unless an issue is escalating to a meta-type discussion. This
is one of those discussions that, from my perspective, is best suited for a
different venue. I'm not a list moderator though, so this is just a
request/suggestion.

Pine
On Jul 1, 2016 16:20, "David Gerard"  wrote:

> Technically maybe, but wikien-l is pretty much long dead at this point.
>
> On 2 July 2016 at 00:14, Pine W  wrote:
> > Hi Tomasz,
> >
> > The Ombudsman Commission's scope, as I understand it, includes
> > investigations of violations of the privacy policy under certain
> > circumstances. So far as I know, the OC does not *create or modify* the
> > policies that it is tasked to enforce, much like how most police
> > departments don't create or modify the laws that they enforce. Please see
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
> >
> > That said, because the scope of this RfC is specific to ENWP, I believe
> > that the best list for an email discussion would probably be WikiEN-l.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Pine
> > James,
> >
> > The proper body to ask this question is Ombudsmen Commission.
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> >
> > 2016-07-01 8:47 GMT+02:00 James Heilman :
> >
> >> Hey All
> >>
> >> On the English Wikipedia we are having a RfC regarding what is allowed
> > when
> >> trying to address undisclosed paid promotional editing.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Can_other_site_accounts_ever_be_linked_to
> >>
> >> Specifically we are discussing if this statement is allowed "Here we
> have
> >> someone who is buying an article on Anthony LaPine. They have already
> >> bought an article on HipLink and this sock created it UserJuliecameo3
> who
> >> is already blocked."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard=679657047#Checking_Elance
> >>
> >> Or are no external links to other accounts allowed to be linked to
> >> Wikipedia?
> >>
> >> Best
> >> --
> >> James Heilman
> >> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >>
> >> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> >> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> >> ___
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing and the privacy policy

2016-07-01 Thread James Heilman 
I believe it is important for the community as a whole to have a
transparent discussion around the issues of privacy and undisclosed
paid promotional editing. The topic is not a single issue of enforcement
but about what rules we wish to put in place and where we wish to draw the
line between the various policies. I disagree with having one or two dozen
editors decide things behind closed doors.

Legal at the WMF has stated "It is not a violation of the Wikimedia privacy
policy for editors to post links to public information about other
editors... Posting links to public information on other sites is a question
of balancing this underlying principle, not a direct violation of the
privacy policy. It's up to community consensus here to decide when the
harassment policy should allow editors to reasonably link to public
information on other sites."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Note_from_Wikimedia_Foundation_Legal

James

On Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Tomasz Ganicz  wrote:

> James,
>
> The proper body to ask this question is Ombudsmen Commission.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> 2016-07-01 8:47 GMT+02:00 James Heilman :
>
> > Hey All
> >
> > On the English Wikipedia we are having a RfC regarding what is allowed
> when
> > trying to address undisclosed paid promotional editing.
> >
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Can_other_site_accounts_ever_be_linked_to
> >
> > Specifically we are discussing if this statement is allowed "Here we have
> > someone who is buying an article on Anthony LaPine. They have already
> > bought an article on HipLink and this sock created it UserJuliecameo3 who
> > is already blocked."
> >
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard=679657047#Checking_Elance
> >
> > Or are no external links to other accounts allowed to be linked to
> > Wikipedia?
> >
> > Best
> > --
> > James Heilman
> > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> >
> > The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> > www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
>
>
>
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
___
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Paid editing and the privacy policy

2016-07-01 Thread Tomasz Ganicz 
James,

The proper body to ask this question is Ombudsmen Commission.

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ombudsman_commission

Cheers,



2016-07-01 8:47 GMT+02:00 James Heilman :

> Hey All
>
> On the English Wikipedia we are having a RfC regarding what is allowed when
> trying to address undisclosed paid promotional editing.
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Can_other_site_accounts_ever_be_linked_to
>
> Specifically we are discussing if this statement is allowed "Here we have
> someone who is buying an article on Anthony LaPine. They have already
> bought an article on HipLink and this sock created it UserJuliecameo3 who
> is already blocked."
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard=679657047#Checking_Elance
>
> Or are no external links to other accounts allowed to be linked to
> Wikipedia?
>
> Best
> --
> James Heilman
> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>
> The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
> www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 




-- 
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
___
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[Wikimedia-l] Paid editing and the privacy policy

2016-07-01 Thread James Heilman 
Hey All

On the English Wikipedia we are having a RfC regarding what is allowed when
trying to address undisclosed paid promotional editing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Harassment#Can_other_site_accounts_ever_be_linked_to

Specifically we are discussing if this statement is allowed "Here we have
someone who is buying an article on Anthony LaPine. They have already
bought an article on HipLink and this sock created it UserJuliecameo3 who
is already blocked."

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard=679657047#Checking_Elance

Or are no external links to other accounts allowed to be linked to
Wikipedia?

Best
--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
___
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