Re: [Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

On 2016-02-26 00:16, Sydney Poore wrote:
The idea of a non-voting seat for a non C-level employee is something 
that

I could support.

Sydney

Sydney Poore
User:FloNight
Wikipedian in Residence
at Cochrane Collaboration



Actually, it could be more observers (non-voting seats) than just one; 
this could also help solving the diversity issue.


Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Sydney Poore]

The idea of a non-voting seat for a non C-level employee is something that
I could support.

Sydney

Sydney Poore
User:FloNight
Wikipedian in Residence
at Cochrane Collaboration

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 6:10 PM, Vi to  wrote:

> 2016-02-25 23:34 GMT+01:00 Milos Rancic :
>
> > I stopped responding to other emails because the significance of this
> > moment is so large, that we have now we didn't have since the
> > beginnings of Wikipedia.
> >
> > We've got the chance to rebuild the movement.
> >
>
> I was about to write something like this, lots of ideas are arising but I
> fear most of will be lost in confusion.
>
>
>
> > You proved to be capable. Last couple of weeks I read many insightful
> > emails from you, WMF employees -- some of them I didn't know at all. I
> > heard thoughts I've never heard before on this list. They've been born
> > in pain and you mustn't lose them.
> >
> > Now you have the opportunity to lead *the* change. You are not anymore
> > just the most organized part of the movement, you've just articulated
> > yourself as capable to make the change you want to.
> >
> >
> Working at WMF implies two kind of expectations: ...money! (Job -> salary,
> simply!) but also a lot of moral/ethical expectations. What went wrong with
> a stricter management were those expectations being frustrated. There's a
> certain turnover between the volunteers and the paid staff, which should
> never be forgot.
>
> In a future board composition I think a seat (maybe non voting) for
> employees could avoid (or at least warn against) catastrophic failures in
> management.
>
>
> Vito
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Vi to]

2016-02-25 23:34 GMT+01:00 Milos Rancic :

> I stopped responding to other emails because the significance of this
> moment is so large, that we have now we didn't have since the
> beginnings of Wikipedia.
>
> We've got the chance to rebuild the movement.
>

I was about to write something like this, lots of ideas are arising but I
fear most of will be lost in confusion.



> You proved to be capable. Last couple of weeks I read many insightful
> emails from you, WMF employees -- some of them I didn't know at all. I
> heard thoughts I've never heard before on this list. They've been born
> in pain and you mustn't lose them.
>
> Now you have the opportunity to lead *the* change. You are not anymore
> just the most organized part of the movement, you've just articulated
> yourself as capable to make the change you want to.
>
>
Working at WMF implies two kind of expectations: ...money! (Job -> salary,
simply!) but also a lot of moral/ethical expectations. What went wrong with
a stricter management were those expectations being frustrated. There's a
certain turnover between the volunteers and the paid staff, which should
never be forgot.

In a future board composition I think a seat (maybe non voting) for
employees could avoid (or at least warn against) catastrophic failures in
management.


Vito
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Philippe Beaudette]

This is an exceptionally well said statement by Millosh. Frankly,
shortening it would probably have lessened the impact of it. So
respectfully I disagree with my friend Mard. :)

On Thursday, February 25, 2016, Dan Andreescu 
wrote:

> Milos's subject line is a good tl;dr; though : )
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Mardetanha  >
> wrote:
>
> > first revolutionary action would be to force millosh to write shorter and
> > more concise emails
> >
> > Mardetanha
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Dan Andreescu  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I agree, Milos, this is one hell of a moment.  I will treat this moment
> > > with the utmost respect.
> > >
> > > I also love that we have made this connection, on this list, on
> Facebook,
> > > on the wikis, with some great community members.  You're right, we
> should
> > > cherish this.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Milos Rancic  > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I stopped responding to other emails because the significance of this
> > > > moment is so large, that we have now we didn't have since the
> > > > beginnings of Wikipedia.
> > > >
> > > > We've got the chance to rebuild the movement.
> > > >
> > > > I don't want to talk about the past, I don't want to write about what
> > > > I think about particular ongoing events, I don't want to think about
> > > > anything else and I urge on all of you to do the same.
> > > >
> > > > Just one small part of the movement -- those personally involved --
> > > > see this moment emotionally and could feel the significance of the
> > > > moment. The most of the movement, including myself, didn't
> participate
> > > > emotionally and I understand why they could have troubles to get the
> > > > perspective.
> > > >
> > > > As mentioned before, for the first time in the decade, we have Board
> > > > members discussing the issues with us honestly. But that's just one
> > > > part of the story.
> > > >
> > > > The other part, even more significant, is exactly that emotional,
> > > > cathartic process lived during the past year by that small part of
> the
> > > > movement, WMF staff.
> > > >
> > > > As I said above, I don't want to talk about my particular position
> > > > regarding those events, as they are irrelevant. The relevant part is
> > > > their experience, their cohesion, their contemplation of various
> > > > issues related to themselves, their colleagues and the movement;
> their
> > > > will to succeed and, eventually, their success.
> > > >
> > > > That changes a lot! We've finally got visible another stakeholder
> > > > inside of our movement, stakeholder capable to do things nobody else
> > > > inside of the movement can. That also gives them much more
> > > > responsibility than they had earlier. It's not anymore just about
> > > > their dream jobs, but also about the fate of our movement.
> > > >
> > > > You proved to be capable. Last couple of weeks I read many insightful
> > > > emails from you, WMF employees -- some of them I didn't know at all.
> I
> > > > heard thoughts I've never heard before on this list. They've been
> born
> > > > in pain and you mustn't lose them.
> > > >
> > > > Now you have the opportunity to lead *the* change. You are not
> anymore
> > > > just the most organized part of the movement, you've just articulated
> > > > yourself as capable to make the change you want to.
> > > >
> > > > You have the means, the organizational infrastructure, not the Board,
> > > > which is working properly just under pressure, not C-level
> management,
> > > > which is struggling to find the way between dysfunctional Board and
> > > > reality. It's about you, engineers, analysts, managers, designers,
> > > > scientists, researchers, advocates, liaisons etc. You've already
> > > > changed your culture, it's now your turn to help others to change the
> > > > movement culture!
> > > >
> > > > You win your own revolution. It's now time for you to help the rest
> of
> > > > us in your and our common revolution.
> > > >
> > > > I imagine one democratic Wikimedia movement, based on solidarity,
> > > > common values and common culture. I imagine all of us have the same
> > > > goals and help each other to achieve them. I imagine us as the seed
> > > > for the future United Federations of Planets (and, yes, when I come
> to
> > > > San Francisco, I want you to show me Starfleet Command!).
> > > >
> > > > So, please, go back to your revolutionary cells, create your vision
> of
> > > > our movement while listening the input of the rest of us, present it
> > > > to us on Meta, lead the discussion, lead the revolution! You've shown
> > > > that you are capable to do that.
> > > >
> > > > The right time to do that is now! Please, don't miss this
> > > > once-in-lifetime opportunity!
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Milos
> > > >
> > > > 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Dan Andreescu]

Milos's subject line is a good tl;dr; though : )

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:49 PM, Mardetanha 
wrote:

> first revolutionary action would be to force millosh to write shorter and
> more concise emails
>
> Mardetanha
>
> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Dan Andreescu 
> wrote:
>
> > I agree, Milos, this is one hell of a moment.  I will treat this moment
> > with the utmost respect.
> >
> > I also love that we have made this connection, on this list, on Facebook,
> > on the wikis, with some great community members.  You're right, we should
> > cherish this.
> >
> > On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> >
> > > I stopped responding to other emails because the significance of this
> > > moment is so large, that we have now we didn't have since the
> > > beginnings of Wikipedia.
> > >
> > > We've got the chance to rebuild the movement.
> > >
> > > I don't want to talk about the past, I don't want to write about what
> > > I think about particular ongoing events, I don't want to think about
> > > anything else and I urge on all of you to do the same.
> > >
> > > Just one small part of the movement -- those personally involved --
> > > see this moment emotionally and could feel the significance of the
> > > moment. The most of the movement, including myself, didn't participate
> > > emotionally and I understand why they could have troubles to get the
> > > perspective.
> > >
> > > As mentioned before, for the first time in the decade, we have Board
> > > members discussing the issues with us honestly. But that's just one
> > > part of the story.
> > >
> > > The other part, even more significant, is exactly that emotional,
> > > cathartic process lived during the past year by that small part of the
> > > movement, WMF staff.
> > >
> > > As I said above, I don't want to talk about my particular position
> > > regarding those events, as they are irrelevant. The relevant part is
> > > their experience, their cohesion, their contemplation of various
> > > issues related to themselves, their colleagues and the movement; their
> > > will to succeed and, eventually, their success.
> > >
> > > That changes a lot! We've finally got visible another stakeholder
> > > inside of our movement, stakeholder capable to do things nobody else
> > > inside of the movement can. That also gives them much more
> > > responsibility than they had earlier. It's not anymore just about
> > > their dream jobs, but also about the fate of our movement.
> > >
> > > You proved to be capable. Last couple of weeks I read many insightful
> > > emails from you, WMF employees -- some of them I didn't know at all. I
> > > heard thoughts I've never heard before on this list. They've been born
> > > in pain and you mustn't lose them.
> > >
> > > Now you have the opportunity to lead *the* change. You are not anymore
> > > just the most organized part of the movement, you've just articulated
> > > yourself as capable to make the change you want to.
> > >
> > > You have the means, the organizational infrastructure, not the Board,
> > > which is working properly just under pressure, not C-level management,
> > > which is struggling to find the way between dysfunctional Board and
> > > reality. It's about you, engineers, analysts, managers, designers,
> > > scientists, researchers, advocates, liaisons etc. You've already
> > > changed your culture, it's now your turn to help others to change the
> > > movement culture!
> > >
> > > You win your own revolution. It's now time for you to help the rest of
> > > us in your and our common revolution.
> > >
> > > I imagine one democratic Wikimedia movement, based on solidarity,
> > > common values and common culture. I imagine all of us have the same
> > > goals and help each other to achieve them. I imagine us as the seed
> > > for the future United Federations of Planets (and, yes, when I come to
> > > San Francisco, I want you to show me Starfleet Command!).
> > >
> > > So, please, go back to your revolutionary cells, create your vision of
> > > our movement while listening the input of the rest of us, present it
> > > to us on Meta, lead the discussion, lead the revolution! You've shown
> > > that you are capable to do that.
> > >
> > > The right time to do that is now! Please, don't miss this
> > > once-in-lifetime opportunity!
> > >
> > > --
> > > Milos
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > 
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Mardetanha]

first revolutionary action would be to force millosh to write shorter and
more concise emails

Mardetanha

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 2:14 AM, Dan Andreescu 
wrote:

> I agree, Milos, this is one hell of a moment.  I will treat this moment
> with the utmost respect.
>
> I also love that we have made this connection, on this list, on Facebook,
> on the wikis, with some great community members.  You're right, we should
> cherish this.
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
>
> > I stopped responding to other emails because the significance of this
> > moment is so large, that we have now we didn't have since the
> > beginnings of Wikipedia.
> >
> > We've got the chance to rebuild the movement.
> >
> > I don't want to talk about the past, I don't want to write about what
> > I think about particular ongoing events, I don't want to think about
> > anything else and I urge on all of you to do the same.
> >
> > Just one small part of the movement -- those personally involved --
> > see this moment emotionally and could feel the significance of the
> > moment. The most of the movement, including myself, didn't participate
> > emotionally and I understand why they could have troubles to get the
> > perspective.
> >
> > As mentioned before, for the first time in the decade, we have Board
> > members discussing the issues with us honestly. But that's just one
> > part of the story.
> >
> > The other part, even more significant, is exactly that emotional,
> > cathartic process lived during the past year by that small part of the
> > movement, WMF staff.
> >
> > As I said above, I don't want to talk about my particular position
> > regarding those events, as they are irrelevant. The relevant part is
> > their experience, their cohesion, their contemplation of various
> > issues related to themselves, their colleagues and the movement; their
> > will to succeed and, eventually, their success.
> >
> > That changes a lot! We've finally got visible another stakeholder
> > inside of our movement, stakeholder capable to do things nobody else
> > inside of the movement can. That also gives them much more
> > responsibility than they had earlier. It's not anymore just about
> > their dream jobs, but also about the fate of our movement.
> >
> > You proved to be capable. Last couple of weeks I read many insightful
> > emails from you, WMF employees -- some of them I didn't know at all. I
> > heard thoughts I've never heard before on this list. They've been born
> > in pain and you mustn't lose them.
> >
> > Now you have the opportunity to lead *the* change. You are not anymore
> > just the most organized part of the movement, you've just articulated
> > yourself as capable to make the change you want to.
> >
> > You have the means, the organizational infrastructure, not the Board,
> > which is working properly just under pressure, not C-level management,
> > which is struggling to find the way between dysfunctional Board and
> > reality. It's about you, engineers, analysts, managers, designers,
> > scientists, researchers, advocates, liaisons etc. You've already
> > changed your culture, it's now your turn to help others to change the
> > movement culture!
> >
> > You win your own revolution. It's now time for you to help the rest of
> > us in your and our common revolution.
> >
> > I imagine one democratic Wikimedia movement, based on solidarity,
> > common values and common culture. I imagine all of us have the same
> > goals and help each other to achieve them. I imagine us as the seed
> > for the future United Federations of Planets (and, yes, when I come to
> > San Francisco, I want you to show me Starfleet Command!).
> >
> > So, please, go back to your revolutionary cells, create your vision of
> > our movement while listening the input of the rest of us, present it
> > to us on Meta, lead the discussion, lead the revolution! You've shown
> > that you are capable to do that.
> >
> > The right time to do that is now! Please, don't miss this
> > once-in-lifetime opportunity!
> >
> > --
> > Milos
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
> ___
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> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
>
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New messages to: 

Re: [Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Dan Andreescu]

I agree, Milos, this is one hell of a moment.  I will treat this moment
with the utmost respect.

I also love that we have made this connection, on this list, on Facebook,
on the wikis, with some great community members.  You're right, we should
cherish this.

On Thu, Feb 25, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> I stopped responding to other emails because the significance of this
> moment is so large, that we have now we didn't have since the
> beginnings of Wikipedia.
>
> We've got the chance to rebuild the movement.
>
> I don't want to talk about the past, I don't want to write about what
> I think about particular ongoing events, I don't want to think about
> anything else and I urge on all of you to do the same.
>
> Just one small part of the movement -- those personally involved --
> see this moment emotionally and could feel the significance of the
> moment. The most of the movement, including myself, didn't participate
> emotionally and I understand why they could have troubles to get the
> perspective.
>
> As mentioned before, for the first time in the decade, we have Board
> members discussing the issues with us honestly. But that's just one
> part of the story.
>
> The other part, even more significant, is exactly that emotional,
> cathartic process lived during the past year by that small part of the
> movement, WMF staff.
>
> As I said above, I don't want to talk about my particular position
> regarding those events, as they are irrelevant. The relevant part is
> their experience, their cohesion, their contemplation of various
> issues related to themselves, their colleagues and the movement; their
> will to succeed and, eventually, their success.
>
> That changes a lot! We've finally got visible another stakeholder
> inside of our movement, stakeholder capable to do things nobody else
> inside of the movement can. That also gives them much more
> responsibility than they had earlier. It's not anymore just about
> their dream jobs, but also about the fate of our movement.
>
> You proved to be capable. Last couple of weeks I read many insightful
> emails from you, WMF employees -- some of them I didn't know at all. I
> heard thoughts I've never heard before on this list. They've been born
> in pain and you mustn't lose them.
>
> Now you have the opportunity to lead *the* change. You are not anymore
> just the most organized part of the movement, you've just articulated
> yourself as capable to make the change you want to.
>
> You have the means, the organizational infrastructure, not the Board,
> which is working properly just under pressure, not C-level management,
> which is struggling to find the way between dysfunctional Board and
> reality. It's about you, engineers, analysts, managers, designers,
> scientists, researchers, advocates, liaisons etc. You've already
> changed your culture, it's now your turn to help others to change the
> movement culture!
>
> You win your own revolution. It's now time for you to help the rest of
> us in your and our common revolution.
>
> I imagine one democratic Wikimedia movement, based on solidarity,
> common values and common culture. I imagine all of us have the same
> goals and help each other to achieve them. I imagine us as the seed
> for the future United Federations of Planets (and, yes, when I come to
> San Francisco, I want you to show me Starfleet Command!).
>
> So, please, go back to your revolutionary cells, create your vision of
> our movement while listening the input of the rest of us, present it
> to us on Meta, lead the discussion, lead the revolution! You've shown
> that you are capable to do that.
>
> The right time to do that is now! Please, don't miss this
> once-in-lifetime opportunity!
>
> --
> Milos
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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[Wikimedia-l] The right time is now!

[Milos Rancic]

I stopped responding to other emails because the significance of this
moment is so large, that we have now we didn't have since the
beginnings of Wikipedia.

We've got the chance to rebuild the movement.

I don't want to talk about the past, I don't want to write about what
I think about particular ongoing events, I don't want to think about
anything else and I urge on all of you to do the same.

Just one small part of the movement -- those personally involved --
see this moment emotionally and could feel the significance of the
moment. The most of the movement, including myself, didn't participate
emotionally and I understand why they could have troubles to get the
perspective.

As mentioned before, for the first time in the decade, we have Board
members discussing the issues with us honestly. But that's just one
part of the story.

The other part, even more significant, is exactly that emotional,
cathartic process lived during the past year by that small part of the
movement, WMF staff.

As I said above, I don't want to talk about my particular position
regarding those events, as they are irrelevant. The relevant part is
their experience, their cohesion, their contemplation of various
issues related to themselves, their colleagues and the movement; their
will to succeed and, eventually, their success.

That changes a lot! We've finally got visible another stakeholder
inside of our movement, stakeholder capable to do things nobody else
inside of the movement can. That also gives them much more
responsibility than they had earlier. It's not anymore just about
their dream jobs, but also about the fate of our movement.

You proved to be capable. Last couple of weeks I read many insightful
emails from you, WMF employees -- some of them I didn't know at all. I
heard thoughts I've never heard before on this list. They've been born
in pain and you mustn't lose them.

Now you have the opportunity to lead *the* change. You are not anymore
just the most organized part of the movement, you've just articulated
yourself as capable to make the change you want to.

You have the means, the organizational infrastructure, not the Board,
which is working properly just under pressure, not C-level management,
which is struggling to find the way between dysfunctional Board and
reality. It's about you, engineers, analysts, managers, designers,
scientists, researchers, advocates, liaisons etc. You've already
changed your culture, it's now your turn to help others to change the
movement culture!

You win your own revolution. It's now time for you to help the rest of
us in your and our common revolution.

I imagine one democratic Wikimedia movement, based on solidarity,
common values and common culture. I imagine all of us have the same
goals and help each other to achieve them. I imagine us as the seed
for the future United Federations of Planets (and, yes, when I come to
San Francisco, I want you to show me Starfleet Command!).

So, please, go back to your revolutionary cells, create your vision of
our movement while listening the input of the rest of us, present it
to us on Meta, lead the discussion, lead the revolution! You've shown
that you are capable to do that.

The right time to do that is now! Please, don't miss this
once-in-lifetime opportunity!

-- 
Milos

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