Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 8:43 AM, Pine W  wrote:
> In general, sarcasm on large public lists is risky, and in my experience
> sarcasm is best tagged with  or ;).

That wouldn't be fun :) It's not about sarcasm, it's about trolling :P
Would have left the discussion to last a bit, if i didn't catch James
(or any experienced Wikimedian) with the comment that I intend to use
incompatible license :)

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Pine W]

In general, sarcasm on large public lists is risky, and in my experience
sarcasm is best tagged with  or ;).

Pine


On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:25 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
> > Yes, but that wasn't fun from at least my perspective. :-/ A lot of
> wikimedians are very serious about copyright, and it's only fair to answer
> them accurately rather than jokingly.
>
> The shock is the part of fun :P And, few moments after, after you
> connect the fact that I am a Wikimedian for long time, which should
> include the fact that I am properly introduced into the licenses (with
> some help by mentioning one obscure license, which, BTW, i support,
> which is also the part of fun :P ), what's the conclusion? That I
> expect Commons to incorporate content licensed by incompatible
> license?
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:25 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
> Yes, but that wasn't fun from at least my perspective. :-/ A lot of 
> wikimedians are very serious about copyright, and it's only fair to answer 
> them accurately rather than jokingly.

The shock is the part of fun :P And, few moments after, after you
connect the fact that I am a Wikimedian for long time, which should
include the fact that I am properly introduced into the licenses (with
some help by mentioning one obscure license, which, BTW, i support,
which is also the part of fun :P ), what's the conclusion? That I
expect Commons to incorporate content licensed by incompatible
license?

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Michael Peel]

On 20 Jul 2014, at 00:16, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
>> James, you're not the only one that was confused by that. Please, Milos, 
>> stay focused on being helpful and furthering the Wikimedia mission (as you 
>> do in an amazing way!), and please don't troll...
> 
> We need some fun, don't we? :P

Yes, but that wasn't fun from at least my perspective. :-/ A lot of wikimedians 
are very serious about copyright, and it's only fair to answer them accurately 
rather than jokingly.

Thanks,
Mike
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:23 AM, Todd Allen  wrote:
> We need a straight answer, which I notice you've still yet to give.

Then RPL, as I said.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Todd Allen]

We need a straight answer, which I notice you've still yet to give.


On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
> > James, you're not the only one that was confused by that. Please, Milos,
> stay focused on being helpful and furthering the Wikimedia mission (as you
> do in an amazing way!), and please don't troll...
>
> We need some fun, don't we? :P
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:13 AM, Michael Peel  wrote:
> James, you're not the only one that was confused by that. Please, Milos, stay 
> focused on being helpful and furthering the Wikimedia mission (as you do in 
> an amazing way!), and please don't troll...

We need some fun, don't we? :P

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Michael Peel]

James, you're not the only one that was confused by that. Please, Milos, stay 
focused on being helpful and furthering the Wikimedia mission (as you do in an 
amazing way!), and please don't troll...

Thanks,
Mike

On 20 Jul 2014, at 00:09, James Alexander  wrote:

> Sorry ;) it's been a very long day and I'm just responding without thinking
> ;)
> 
> I WAS very confused to be fair
> 
> James Alexander
> Legal and Community Advocacy
> Wikimedia Foundation
> (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:
> 
>> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 AM, James Alexander
>>  wrote:
>>> I think if you are going to be releasing images or video you would be
>>> better using a Creative Commons license or similar. The RPL (like the GPL
>>> it's based on) is significantly more designed for source code and
>> programs
>>> and the requirements make media much harder to reuse.
>> 
>> James, I was trolling...
>> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[James Alexander]

Sorry ;) it's been a very long day and I'm just responding without thinking
;)

I WAS very confused to be fair

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 AM, James Alexander
>  wrote:
> > I think if you are going to be releasing images or video you would be
> > better using a Creative Commons license or similar. The RPL (like the GPL
> > it's based on) is significantly more designed for source code and
> programs
> > and the requirements make media much harder to reuse.
>
> James, I was trolling...
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Todd Allen]

Then knock it off. You know NC/ND are not appropriate. Are the final
contributions going to be CC-BY-SA, or something else?


On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 5:06 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 AM, James Alexander
>  wrote:
> > I think if you are going to be releasing images or video you would be
> > better using a Creative Commons license or similar. The RPL (like the GPL
> > it's based on) is significantly more designed for source code and
> programs
> > and the requirements make media much harder to reuse.
>
> James, I was trolling...
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 1:04 AM, James Alexander
 wrote:
> I think if you are going to be releasing images or video you would be
> better using a Creative Commons license or similar. The RPL (like the GPL
> it's based on) is significantly more designed for source code and programs
> and the requirements make media much harder to reuse.

James, I was trolling...

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[James Alexander]

I think if you are going to be releasing images or video you would be
better using a Creative Commons license or similar. The RPL (like the GPL
it's based on) is significantly more designed for source code and programs
and the requirements make media much harder to reuse.

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Milos Rancic  wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Todd Allen  wrote:
> > Uh, wait. Please answer the question clearly and unambiguously. What
> exact
> > license will the proposed contributions be under?
> > On Jul 18, 2014 2:06 PM, "Milos Rancic"  wrote:
>
> I think that the best one is Reciprocal Public License [1]. What do you
> think?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Public_License
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

On Sun, Jul 20, 2014 at 12:49 AM, Todd Allen  wrote:
> Uh, wait. Please answer the question clearly and unambiguously. What exact
> license will the proposed contributions be under?
> On Jul 18, 2014 2:06 PM, "Milos Rancic"  wrote:

I think that the best one is Reciprocal Public License [1]. What do you think?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_Public_License

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Todd Allen]

Uh, wait. Please answer the question clearly and unambiguously. What exact
license will the proposed contributions be under?
On Jul 18, 2014 2:06 PM, "Milos Rancic"  wrote:

> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Jan Ainali 
> wrote:
> > I see that the video is marked CC BY-NC-ND. Will all other videos also be
> > under that license?
>
> That's their proprietary, artistic work. We are getting
> scientific/educational videos. Something like ten time 3-5 minutes of
> one species, 20 times 3-5 minutes of the other one, 30 minutes of rare
> species, ~10 minutes of filming one ecosystem etc. Our goal is to
> illustrate Wikipedia articles (and articles on other Wikimedia
> projects). Their proprietary work is their art.
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Enock Seth Nyamador]

Really cool project, Milos.

- Enock
On Jul 19, 2014 1:15 PM, "Yaroslav M. Blanter"  wrote:

> On 18.07.2014 22:05, Milos Rancic wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Jan Ainali 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I see that the video is marked CC BY-NC-ND. Will all other videos also be
>>> under that license?
>>>
>>
>> That's their proprietary, artistic work. We are getting
>> scientific/educational videos. Something like ten time 3-5 minutes of
>> one species, 20 times 3-5 minutes of the other one, 30 minutes of rare
>> species, ~10 minutes of filming one ecosystem etc. Our goal is to
>> illustrate Wikipedia articles (and articles on other Wikimedia
>> projects). Their proprietary work is their art.
>>
>> ___
>>
>
> Note that especially if it comes to Antarctic waters we can also use
> screenshots to illustrate geographic features, I am not sure we have the
> whole Antarctic coast covered.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

On 18.07.2014 22:05, Milos Rancic wrote:
On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Jan Ainali  
wrote:
I see that the video is marked CC BY-NC-ND. Will all other videos 
also be

under that license?


That's their proprietary, artistic work. We are getting
scientific/educational videos. Something like ten time 3-5 minutes of
one species, 20 times 3-5 minutes of the other one, 30 minutes of rare
species, ~10 minutes of filming one ecosystem etc. Our goal is to
illustrate Wikipedia articles (and articles on other Wikimedia
projects). Their proprietary work is their art.

___


Note that especially if it comes to Antarctic waters we can also use 
screenshots to illustrate geographic features, I am not sure we have the 
whole Antarctic coast covered.


Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 9:53 PM, Jan Ainali  wrote:
> I see that the video is marked CC BY-NC-ND. Will all other videos also be
> under that license?

That's their proprietary, artistic work. We are getting
scientific/educational videos. Something like ten time 3-5 minutes of
one species, 20 times 3-5 minutes of the other one, 30 minutes of rare
species, ~10 minutes of filming one ecosystem etc. Our goal is to
illustrate Wikipedia articles (and articles on other Wikimedia
projects). Their proprietary work is their art.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Jan Ainali]

I see that the video is marked CC BY-NC-ND. Will all other videos also be
under that license?


*Med vänliga hälsningar,Jan Ainali*

Verksamhetschef, Wikimedia Sverige 
0729 - 67 29 48


*Tänk dig en värld där varje människa har fri tillgång till mänsklighetens
samlade kunskap. Det är det vi gör.*
Bli medlem. 



2014-07-18 19:46 GMT+02:00 Milos Rancic :

> Thanks for support. Here is one unlocked teaser [1]. We'll be getting
> a lot of videos like that one is, but split into the parts describing
> particular species. We'll actually get materials used in this video, as
> well.
>
> [1] http://vimeo.com/83936598
>
> On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter 
> wrote:
> > On 15.07.2014 06:42, Milos Rancic wrote:
> >>
> >> For the last month or so I want to share with you the initial success
> >> of the Microgrants 2014 project of Wikimedia Serbia. However, there
> >> are a number of stories and it was too much to me to write about all
> >> of them at once. So, I am splitting it, which means that you can
> >> expect more stories during the next days.
> >>
> >> Inside of this email, first a bit about the project Microgrants, then
> >> about the particular project.
> >>
> >> * * *
> >
> >
> > Hi Milos,
> >
> > the project sounds really cool.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

Thanks for support. Here is one unlocked teaser [1]. We'll be getting
a lot of videos like that one is, but split into the parts describing
particular species. We'll actually get materials used in this video, as well.

[1] http://vimeo.com/83936598

On Fri, Jul 18, 2014 at 8:47 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter  wrote:
> On 15.07.2014 06:42, Milos Rancic wrote:
>>
>> For the last month or so I want to share with you the initial success
>> of the Microgrants 2014 project of Wikimedia Serbia. However, there
>> are a number of stories and it was too much to me to write about all
>> of them at once. So, I am splitting it, which means that you can
>> expect more stories during the next days.
>>
>> Inside of this email, first a bit about the project Microgrants, then
>> about the particular project.
>>
>> * * *
>
>
> Hi Milos,
>
> the project sounds really cool.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Yaroslav M. Blanter]

On 15.07.2014 06:42, Milos Rancic wrote:

For the last month or so I want to share with you the initial success
of the Microgrants 2014 project of Wikimedia Serbia. However, there
are a number of stories and it was too much to me to write about all
of them at once. So, I am splitting it, which means that you can
expect more stories during the next days.

Inside of this email, first a bit about the project Microgrants, then
about the particular project.

* * *


Hi Milos,

the project sounds really cool.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Erik Zachte]

Very inspiring, Milos. Thanks for sharing. 
Might be good story for Wikimedia blog. 

> -Original Message-
> From: wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org [mailto:wikimedia-l-
> boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Milos Rancic
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 6:43
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants
> 2014
> 
> For the last month or so I want to share with you the initial success of the
> Microgrants 2014 project of Wikimedia Serbia. However, there are a number
> of stories and it was too much to me to write about all of them at once. So, I
> am splitting it, which means that you can expect more stories during the next
> days.
> 
> Inside of this email, first a bit about the project Microgrants, then about 
> the
> particular project.
> 
> * * *
> 
> In brief, the goals of WMRS Microgrants project is to build capacities of
> Wikimedia Serbia and to make WMRS more visible. Projects themselves are
> of secondary importance. The idea is to engage individuals and organizations
> in creation free content, as well as to find active volunteers inside of that
> pool.
> 
> Although there are many possible cool ideas, I didn't want to base the
> project on something unpredictable, but on more or less predictable
> parameters. For example, if we get ~10 more active Wikimedians thanks to
> that project, it would be success.
> 
> However, it turns out that some of my wet dreams have become reality :D
> My unexpressed idea was that if we reach relevant population, we'll get
> some very cool projects.
> 
> The initial budget for all projects was 2500 EUR. Thanks to WMRS Board and
> staff, that budget raised for, AFAIK, ~2000 EUR, so all relevant projects got
> funding (which was between 400 and 500 per project).
> 
> * * *
> 
> This email is about the coolest project which we got. (However, there are
> other projects, even more significant than this one. This one is just the
> coolest :D ) It's about recording underwater world of Drina River [1]. So, 
> yes,
> we'll get photos and videos of underwater species.
> 
> Two persons who are doing that are called "Liquid Art" [2]. Please, take a 
> look
> at their materials.
> 
> One of very important conclusions about the work with them is that one of
> my premises turns out to be true.
> 
> They are artists. They are living of making artistic movies about underwater
> worlds. They needed just co-funding (500 EUR) and they will give us all
> materials relevant to us, for educational purposes. They will create movies,
> make other steps to compile them into artistic experience, and that material
> is their, proprietary. However, educational materials will be copylefted.
> 
> But, that's not the end of the story...
> 
> We were actually lucky to start this project with them. They are in Serbia (in
> Novi Sad) just because their ship is docked in Caribbean to be repaired. Oh,
> and they didn't want to go to make underwater photos of Caribbean, but
> underwater photos and videos of the Southern Ocean, Antarctica.
> 
> They have other materials, as well as they are making underwater photos all
> over the world. Their destinations for the next year are Thailand and
> Antarctica.
> 
> After they come back from their Drina expedition, we are going to talk about
> liberating their older materials.
> 
> Basically, those people are living from their work, but they have enough
> space to contribute to the free content corpus, as well as they are willing to
> do so. And I am sure that there are many such people all over the world.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Obviously, I'd like to see other affiliate organizations doing similar 
> things. At
> some point of time I'll write a know-how for making that kind of projects. In
> the meantime, feel free to approach me via email or ask the questions here,
> so everybody would be able to read and participate.
> 
> * * *
> 
> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drina
> [2] https://liquid-art.net/ (some of their material is locked, as they didn't
> publish those videos yet; narration of their movies is in Serbian, but I am 
> sure
> that we can convince them to make English versions, as well :) )
> 
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[Wikimedia-l] Underwater photos and videos / WMRS Microgrants 2014

[Milos Rancic]

For the last month or so I want to share with you the initial success
of the Microgrants 2014 project of Wikimedia Serbia. However, there
are a number of stories and it was too much to me to write about all
of them at once. So, I am splitting it, which means that you can
expect more stories during the next days.

Inside of this email, first a bit about the project Microgrants, then
about the particular project.

* * *

In brief, the goals of WMRS Microgrants project is to build capacities
of Wikimedia Serbia and to make WMRS more visible. Projects themselves
are of secondary importance. The idea is to engage individuals and
organizations in creation free content, as well as to find active
volunteers inside of that pool.

Although there are many possible cool ideas, I didn't want to base the
project on something unpredictable, but on more or less predictable
parameters. For example, if we get ~10 more active Wikimedians thanks
to that project, it would be success.

However, it turns out that some of my wet dreams have become reality
:D My unexpressed idea was that if we reach relevant population, we'll
get some very cool projects.

The initial budget for all projects was 2500 EUR. Thanks to WMRS Board
and staff, that budget raised for, AFAIK, ~2000 EUR, so all relevant
projects got funding (which was between 400 and 500 per project).

* * *

This email is about the coolest project which we got. (However, there
are other projects, even more significant than this one. This one is
just the coolest :D ) It's about recording underwater world of Drina
River [1]. So, yes, we'll get photos and videos of underwater species.

Two persons who are doing that are called "Liquid Art" [2]. Please,
take a look at their materials.

One of very important conclusions about the work with them is that one
of my premises turns out to be true.

They are artists. They are living of making artistic movies about
underwater worlds. They needed just co-funding (500 EUR) and they will
give us all materials relevant to us, for educational purposes. They
will create movies, make other steps to compile them into artistic
experience, and that material is their, proprietary. However,
educational materials will be copylefted.

But, that's not the end of the story...

We were actually lucky to start this project with them. They are in
Serbia (in Novi Sad) just because their ship is docked in Caribbean to
be repaired. Oh, and they didn't want to go to make underwater photos
of Caribbean, but underwater photos and videos of the Southern Ocean,
Antarctica.

They have other materials, as well as they are making underwater
photos all over the world. Their destinations for the next year are
Thailand and Antarctica.

After they come back from their Drina expedition, we are going to talk
about liberating their older materials.

Basically, those people are living from their work, but they have
enough space to contribute to the free content corpus, as well as they
are willing to do so. And I am sure that there are many such people
all over the world.

* * *

Obviously, I'd like to see other affiliate organizations doing similar
things. At some point of time I'll write a know-how for making that
kind of projects. In the meantime, feel free to approach me via email
or ask the questions here, so everybody would be able to read and
participate.

* * *

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drina
[2] https://liquid-art.net/ (some of their material is locked, as they
didn't publish those videos yet; narration of their movies is in
Serbian, but I am sure that we can convince them to make English
versions, as well :) )

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