Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Alex 2013/6/6 Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com Ziko van Dijk, 06/06/2013 15:00: I also think that it should not be seen as blasphemy when someone suggests to reconsider a Wikimedia project. (Remember Asaf's session in Milan.) Isn't Wikispecies not already redundant because in Wikipedia every species is notable anyway? What Wikipedia are you talking of? sv.wiki, en.wiki, others or all? Nemo __**_ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.**org Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-lhttps://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Hoi, A species database does not contain the same information you are likely to find in an encyclopaedia. When you want to be comprehensive in a database about species, you will include many revisions of genera, of species and more. When you care about such things, have a look at IPNI. Thanks, Gerard http://ipni.org/ On 6 June 2013 15:00, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl wrote: Hello, I also think that it should not be seen as blasphemy when someone suggests to reconsider a Wikimedia project. (Remember Asaf's session in Milan.) Isn't Wikispecies not already redundant because in Wikipedia every species is notable anyway? Kind regards Ziko Am Montag, 3. Juni 2013 schrieb Gerard Meijssen : Hoi, Taxonomy is not the thing that occupies me. It is however something I have experience with.. Everyone who knows anything about the taxonomy of plants can confirm that a taxon without publishing details is incomplete. Thanks, Gerard On 3 June 2013 17:03, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com javascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com javascript:;wrote: Really, taxonomy is tricky. FYI I have an 80 MB database with ONLY cacti and succulents. I learned a lot in the process. So, have you imported that to Wikidata yet? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Ziko van Dijk voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht http://wikimedia.nl ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Ah, thanks for the information. And this encyclopedia of life, isn't that the project suitable? Kind regards Ziko Ziko van Dijk voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht http://wikimedia.nl 2013/6/12 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com Hoi, A species database does not contain the same information you are likely to find in an encyclopaedia. When you want to be comprehensive in a database about species, you will include many revisions of genera, of species and more. When you care about such things, have a look at IPNI. Thanks, Gerard http://ipni.org/ On 6 June 2013 15:00, Ziko van Dijk vand...@wmnederland.nl wrote: Hello, I also think that it should not be seen as blasphemy when someone suggests to reconsider a Wikimedia project. (Remember Asaf's session in Milan.) Isn't Wikispecies not already redundant because in Wikipedia every species is notable anyway? Kind regards Ziko Am Montag, 3. Juni 2013 schrieb Gerard Meijssen : Hoi, Taxonomy is not the thing that occupies me. It is however something I have experience with.. Everyone who knows anything about the taxonomy of plants can confirm that a taxon without publishing details is incomplete. Thanks, Gerard On 3 June 2013 17:03, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com javascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com javascript:;wrote: Really, taxonomy is tricky. FYI I have an 80 MB database with ONLY cacti and succulents. I learned a lot in the process. So, have you imported that to Wikidata yet? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Ziko van Dijk voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht http://wikimedia.nl ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Hello, I also think that it should not be seen as blasphemy when someone suggests to reconsider a Wikimedia project. (Remember Asaf's session in Milan.) Isn't Wikispecies not already redundant because in Wikipedia every species is notable anyway? Kind regards Ziko Am Montag, 3. Juni 2013 schrieb Gerard Meijssen : Hoi, Taxonomy is not the thing that occupies me. It is however something I have experience with.. Everyone who knows anything about the taxonomy of plants can confirm that a taxon without publishing details is incomplete. Thanks, Gerard On 3 June 2013 17:03, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.comjavascript:; wrote: On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com javascript:;wrote: Really, taxonomy is tricky. FYI I have an 80 MB database with ONLY cacti and succulents. I learned a lot in the process. So, have you imported that to Wikidata yet? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org javascript:; Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Ziko van Dijk voorzitter / president Wikimedia Nederland deputy chair Wikimedia Chapters Association Council Vereniging Wikimedia Nederland Postbus 167 3500 AD Utrecht http://wikimedia.nl ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Ziko van Dijk, 06/06/2013 15:00: I also think that it should not be seen as blasphemy when someone suggests to reconsider a Wikimedia project. (Remember Asaf's session in Milan.) Isn't Wikispecies not already redundant because in Wikipedia every species is notable anyway? What Wikipedia are you talking of? sv.wiki, en.wiki, others or all? Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
[Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Hello dear all, I happened to worked with a few biology interwikis on WikiData today and saw the taxnomical data on it. Given that WikiData is growing and more potential would not it be a good idea to merge WikiSpecies data into WikiData and close WikiSpecies (hope now there will no stones or rotten tomatos flying for this naive question ;-) )? Greetings Ting ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
2013/6/3 Ting Chen wing.phil...@gmx.de: Hello dear all, I happened to worked with a few biology interwikis on WikiData today and saw the taxnomical data on it. Given that WikiData is growing and more potential would not it be a good idea to merge WikiSpecies data into WikiData and close WikiSpecies (hope now there will no stones or rotten tomatos flying for this naive question ;-) )? I thought about it several times and it makes sense to me. I somehow assumed that that is the intention anyway. -- Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי http://aharoni.wordpress.com “We're living in pieces, I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Ting Chen, 03/06/2013 11:29: I happened to worked with a few biology interwikis on WikiData today and saw the taxnomical data on it. Given that WikiData is growing and more potential would not it be a good idea to merge WikiSpecies data into WikiData Yes, and close WikiSpecies (hope now there will no stones or rotten tomatos flying for this naive question ;-) )? no. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2013/02#Include_Wikispecies_into_Wikidata http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikispecies-l/2013-January/thread.html TL;DR: Wikidata offers only a partial way to store information and no real interface at all for browsing it. Nemo ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
On 03/06/13 11:40, Federico Leva (Nemo) wrote: Ting Chen, 03/06/2013 11:29: I happened to worked with a few biology interwikis on WikiData today and saw the taxnomical data on it. Given that WikiData is growing and more potential would not it be a good idea to merge WikiSpecies data into WikiData Yes, and close WikiSpecies (hope now there will no stones or rotten tomatos flying for this naive question ;-) )? no. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat/Archive/2013/02#Include_Wikispecies_into_Wikidata http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikispecies-l/2013-January/thread.html TL;DR: Wikidata offers only a partial way to store information and no real interface at all for browsing it. What if this interface would exist? I believe it could be made really quickly and easily. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Ting Chen wing.phil...@gmx.de wrote: Hello dear all, I happened to worked with a few biology interwikis on WikiData today and saw the taxnomical data on it. Given that WikiData is growing and more potential would not it be a good idea to merge WikiSpecies data into WikiData and close WikiSpecies (hope now there will no stones or rotten tomatos flying for this naive question ;-) )? Hi Ting, It is too early for this discussion to be honest. The data in Wikidata isn't up to it yet. Most of the taxonomy data isn't complete and it isn't sourced properly yet. I've been talking about this topic with quite a few people knowledgeable about this matter and taxonomy is not as easy as it might seem from the outside. This needs experts and time. Besides this I believe any discussion like this should be started by and in the WikiSpecies community. Cheers Lydia -- Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher Community Communications for Technical Projects Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. Obentrautstr. 72 10963 Berlin www.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
I promise I'll get to looking at wikidata's search sometime! I sure don't know when that time will be but I'll get to it! Sent from my iPhone On Jun 3, 2013, at 6:01 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Nikola Smolenski, 03/06/2013 11:44: What if this interface would exist? I believe it could be made really quickly and easily. It's not about interface only, for instance the search backend is completely broken and useless for Wikidata, AFAICS. From what I understand, the interface for Wikidata data is provided by client sites such as Wikipedia. There are no plans for inclusion of Wikispecies as client site, but if/when Wikispecies' needs are implemented this doesn't imply Wikispecies would be useless, rather that it would have easier access to data and could focus on its scope i.e. presenting such data. Currently it tries to do both and IMHO fails at both. Nemo P.s.: There are also connected problems like sv.wiki becoming a Wikispecies/Wikidata on its own with a million species bot-entries, but it's another story. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Disclaimer: I am writing this as a community member of the German Wikipedia, where I have been active for many years in the WikiProject:Biology. As an amateur I had to learn throughout the years, that taxonomy is pretty tricky, much more than it seems at first sight. Though it seems so easy to map taxonomical data in a database due to its seemingly strict hierarchical nature, I'm afraid it is much more tricky to implement as taxonomy is a discipline with a lot of traps to step in. That doesn't mean, that it shouldn't be tried, but when considering to do this: please get advice of professional taxonomists (not only general biologists) before planning things like that from a purely technical point of view. Be aware of heavy differences between the various, but binding codes (Zoology, Bacteriology, Botany s.l. and cultivated plants). Be aware of the necessity of concurring data trees working with the same objects. Be aware of the continous changes of taxonomy and the current tendency of dismissing defined ranks for the benefit of nodes. Such professional advice could be useful to avoid failures due to missing expertise in the very beginning. Just a hint. Best regards, Denis Barthel Am 03.06.2013 12:01, schrieb Federico Leva (Nemo): Nikola Smolenski, 03/06/2013 11:44: What if this interface would exist? I believe it could be made really quickly and easily. It's not about interface only, for instance the search backend is completely broken and useless for Wikidata, AFAICS. From what I understand, the interface for Wikidata data is provided by client sites such as Wikipedia. There are no plans for inclusion of Wikispecies as client site, but if/when Wikispecies' needs are implemented this doesn't imply Wikispecies would be useless, rather that it would have easier access to data and could focus on its scope i.e. presenting such data. Currently it tries to do both and IMHO fails at both. Nemo P.s.: There are also connected problems like sv.wiki becoming a Wikispecies/Wikidata on its own with a million species bot-entries, but it's another story. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l -- Projektmanager Team Communitys Fon +49 30 219 158 26 31 Mobil +49 172 23 13 811 E-Mail: denis.bart...@wikimedia.de -- Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin Tel. (030) 219 158 260 Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Or just get the entire taxonomy for a species quickly: http://208.80.153.172/wdq/?q=tree[4504][171,273,75,76,77,70,71,74,89] Cheers, Magnus On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Nik Everett never...@wikimedia.org wrote: I promise I'll get to looking at wikidata's search sometime! I sure don't know when that time will be but I'll get to it! Sent from my iPhone On Jun 3, 2013, at 6:01 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Nikola Smolenski, 03/06/2013 11:44: What if this interface would exist? I believe it could be made really quickly and easily. It's not about interface only, for instance the search backend is completely broken and useless for Wikidata, AFAICS. From what I understand, the interface for Wikidata data is provided by client sites such as Wikipedia. There are no plans for inclusion of Wikispecies as client site, but if/when Wikispecies' needs are implemented this doesn't imply Wikispecies would be useless, rather that it would have easier access to data and could focus on its scope i.e. presenting such data. Currently it tries to do both and IMHO fails at both. Nemo P.s.: There are also connected problems like sv.wiki becoming a Wikispecies/Wikidata on its own with a million species bot-entries, but it's another story. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Hoi, This is great fun ... However from the perspective of taxonomy this is not complete at all. What is lacking are the names of the authors and the date of publication. Even this can be insufficient because there are instances where a description with the same name by the same people happened in the same year and in the same publication. Really, taxonomy is tricky. FYI I have an 80 MB database with ONLY cacti and succulents. I learned a lot in the process. Thanks, GerardM On 3 June 2013 15:23, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: Or just get the entire taxonomy for a species quickly: http://208.80.153.172/wdq/?q=tree[4504][171,273,75,76,77,70,71,74,89] Cheers, Magnus On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:48 PM, Nik Everett never...@wikimedia.org wrote: I promise I'll get to looking at wikidata's search sometime! I sure don't know when that time will be but I'll get to it! Sent from my iPhone On Jun 3, 2013, at 6:01 AM, Federico Leva (Nemo) nemow...@gmail.com wrote: Nikola Smolenski, 03/06/2013 11:44: What if this interface would exist? I believe it could be made really quickly and easily. It's not about interface only, for instance the search backend is completely broken and useless for Wikidata, AFAICS. From what I understand, the interface for Wikidata data is provided by client sites such as Wikipedia. There are no plans for inclusion of Wikispecies as client site, but if/when Wikispecies' needs are implemented this doesn't imply Wikispecies would be useless, rather that it would have easier access to data and could focus on its scope i.e. presenting such data. Currently it tries to do both and IMHO fails at both. Nemo P.s.: There are also connected problems like sv.wiki becoming a Wikispecies/Wikidata on its own with a million species bot-entries, but it's another story. ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote: Really, taxonomy is tricky. FYI I have an 80 MB database with ONLY cacti and succulents. I learned a lot in the process. So, have you imported that to Wikidata yet? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
Re: [Wikimedia-l] WikiData and WikiSpecies
Hoi, Taxonomy is not the thing that occupies me. It is however something I have experience with.. Everyone who knows anything about the taxonomy of plants can confirm that a taxon without publishing details is incomplete. Thanks, Gerard On 3 June 2013 17:03, Magnus Manske magnusman...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.comwrote: Really, taxonomy is tricky. FYI I have an 80 MB database with ONLY cacti and succulents. I learned a lot in the process. So, have you imported that to Wikidata yet? ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l ___ Wikimedia-l mailing list Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
