Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[Lodewijk]

Hi Rogol,

A pattern seems to be developing, suggesting that you grab any opportunity
to question or attack the Wikimedia Foundation. I don't see any foundation
for your accusation, nor do I see a relevance for it in this thread.

This thread was pretty straightforward about a proposal/question, and some
follow-up questions about that. Could we please stick to that, and not get
diverted in such unconstructive manner? This would, at least by me, be very
much appreciated. Thank you.

Lodewijk

2017-02-14 22:11 GMT+01:00 Rogol Domedonfors :

> Nathan,
>
> These are indeed excellent questions which should be asked before starting
> any survey.  I wish I could be confident that it is universal practice for
> the Foundation to undertake this exercise before each of the rather
> numerous surveys they make of the community, and always able to view, as
> transparency would require, the documentation of these issues before and
> after every one of those surveys.
>
> "Rogol"
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Nathan  wrote:
>
> > What would your intended use of the results of such a survey be? How do
> you
> > think the community, or any group of people, should interpret, value and
> > react to the results?
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Bill Takatoshi  >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > When a contentious question about the community's opinion is
> > > preventing consideration of one or more proposals, what is the best
> > > way forward, in general?
> > >
> > > I am considering commissioning a survey of community opinion from a
> > > neutral and respected third party who has published a well-received
> > > survey of English wikipedians a few years ago.
> > >
> > > The Foundation is not willing to help, in part because, "Reaching
> > > consensus on what wording to use, the quality of the results, and how
> > > to interpret the results will be very challenging and take significant
> > > amount of time." I would argue that not doing such a survey, or
> > > relying on opt-in methods like RFCs, are both worse than obtaining a
> > > respected third party to perform a straw poll of recent editors with
> > > an established history of contributions composed of a few unambiguous
> > > opinion questions.
> > >
> > > If I did this, would anyone object to a gofundme intended to recover
> > > the cost of commissioning the survey on a voluntary basis?
> > >
> > > ___
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> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[Rogol Domedonfors]

Nathan,

These are indeed excellent questions which should be asked before starting
any survey.  I wish I could be confident that it is universal practice for
the Foundation to undertake this exercise before each of the rather
numerous surveys they make of the community, and always able to view, as
transparency would require, the documentation of these issues before and
after every one of those surveys.

"Rogol"

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 1:03 AM, Nathan  wrote:

> What would your intended use of the results of such a survey be? How do you
> think the community, or any group of people, should interpret, value and
> react to the results?
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Bill Takatoshi 
> wrote:
>
> > When a contentious question about the community's opinion is
> > preventing consideration of one or more proposals, what is the best
> > way forward, in general?
> >
> > I am considering commissioning a survey of community opinion from a
> > neutral and respected third party who has published a well-received
> > survey of English wikipedians a few years ago.
> >
> > The Foundation is not willing to help, in part because, "Reaching
> > consensus on what wording to use, the quality of the results, and how
> > to interpret the results will be very challenging and take significant
> > amount of time." I would argue that not doing such a survey, or
> > relying on opt-in methods like RFCs, are both worse than obtaining a
> > respected third party to perform a straw poll of recent editors with
> > an established history of contributions composed of a few unambiguous
> > opinion questions.
> >
> > If I did this, would anyone object to a gofundme intended to recover
> > the cost of commissioning the survey on a voluntary basis?
> >
> > ___
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[Keegan Peterzell]

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 6:30 AM, James Heilman  wrote:

> Is this with respect to what to do about undisclosed paid editing or
> something else?
>
> J
>

​I believe it has to do with this list that Bill compiled, related to
political action: <
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2017-February/086231.html
>​

-- 
~Keegan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan

This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
is in a personal capacity.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[James Heilman]

Is this with respect to what to do about undisclosed paid editing or
something else?

J

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017, Bill Takatoshi 
wrote:

> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Nathan >
> wrote:
> >
> > What would your intended use of the results of such a survey be? How do
> you
> > think the community, or any group of people, should interpret, value and
> > react to the results?
>
> I only intend that the results be published as soon as possible. As I
> pointed out over a week ago, several different people on this have
> made more than ten proposals, most of which can not reasonably be
> acted on until we know the opinions of the volunteer community.
> Without that information, none of the remaining proposals are likely
> to go anywhere.
>
> -Will
>
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-- 
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[Lodewijk]

Hi Will,

It seems I'm missing some context here. I still don't understand what type
of survey we're talking about, what the intended purpose is and what would
be accomplished by such survey. You're talking about commissioning the
survey - from which capacity would you do that? What infrastructures do you
intend to use to get responses?

Best,
Lodewijk

2017-02-14 2:40 GMT+01:00 Bill Takatoshi :

> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Nathan  wrote:
> >
> > What would your intended use of the results of such a survey be? How do
> you
> > think the community, or any group of people, should interpret, value and
> > react to the results?
>
> I only intend that the results be published as soon as possible. As I
> pointed out over a week ago, several different people on this have
> made more than ten proposals, most of which can not reasonably be
> acted on until we know the opinions of the volunteer community.
> Without that information, none of the remaining proposals are likely
> to go anywhere.
>
> -Will
>
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> 
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[Bill Takatoshi]

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Nathan  wrote:
>
> What would your intended use of the results of such a survey be? How do you
> think the community, or any group of people, should interpret, value and
> react to the results?

I only intend that the results be published as soon as possible. As I
pointed out over a week ago, several different people on this have
made more than ten proposals, most of which can not reasonably be
acted on until we know the opinions of the volunteer community.
Without that information, none of the remaining proposals are likely
to go anywhere.

-Will

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[Nathan]

What would your intended use of the results of such a survey be? How do you
think the community, or any group of people, should interpret, value and
react to the results?

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 7:59 PM, Bill Takatoshi 
wrote:

> When a contentious question about the community's opinion is
> preventing consideration of one or more proposals, what is the best
> way forward, in general?
>
> I am considering commissioning a survey of community opinion from a
> neutral and respected third party who has published a well-received
> survey of English wikipedians a few years ago.
>
> The Foundation is not willing to help, in part because, "Reaching
> consensus on what wording to use, the quality of the results, and how
> to interpret the results will be very challenging and take significant
> amount of time." I would argue that not doing such a survey, or
> relying on opt-in methods like RFCs, are both worse than obtaining a
> respected third party to perform a straw poll of recent editors with
> an established history of contributions composed of a few unambiguous
> opinion questions.
>
> If I did this, would anyone object to a gofundme intended to recover
> the cost of commissioning the survey on a voluntary basis?
>
> ___
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> 
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] community survey request

[Bill Takatoshi]

When a contentious question about the community's opinion is
preventing consideration of one or more proposals, what is the best
way forward, in general?

I am considering commissioning a survey of community opinion from a
neutral and respected third party who has published a well-received
survey of English wikipedians a few years ago.

The Foundation is not willing to help, in part because, "Reaching
consensus on what wording to use, the quality of the results, and how
to interpret the results will be very challenging and take significant
amount of time." I would argue that not doing such a survey, or
relying on opt-in methods like RFCs, are both worse than obtaining a
respected third party to perform a straw poll of recent editors with
an established history of contributions composed of a few unambiguous
opinion questions.

If I did this, would anyone object to a gofundme intended to recover
the cost of commissioning the survey on a voluntary basis?

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