Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] New admins on the list
Dear all, Thanks for the welcome. Probably, most of you know me more from on-wiki than the meetups (where I have been terribly infrequent!). Have been busy on Saturdays with work and have not been able to come for the meetups. Anyways, just to introduce myself, a bit more formally - Am a doctor specialized in public health, doing my PhD right now. I am based in Bangalore and Tumkur. Most of my wikipedia contributions were through dial-up connections when I was working BR Hills - wikipedia and birds being my only two driving forces! Have been on the english wikipedia sometime since 2004 although, I got myself a username only in 2005. I mainly work on content contributions on the english wikipedia and images (rarely maps) on commons. I also hold informal wiki-classes in schools and would be glad to help anybody on that on weekends. Am glad to help out as a moderetor. Naturally, I have a lot of biases which I declare on my user page as well as my website. I will of course strive to not allow them to colour my role here, just as I have not allowed them to colour my enwiki contributions. And, no offense taken, Sundar on the overlordship, considering that I am not planning to take over the world!http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-x-overlords (nice link that describes the phrase) Regards, Prashanth N S Faculty, Institute of Public Health, Bangalore PhD Student, Institute of Tropical Medicine, Antwerp Asst. Director (Research), Karuna Trust VGKK web @ http://daktre.com @prashanthns on twitter http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Prashanthns photos @ http://flickr.com/photos/biligiri Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2011 23:33:04 -0800 (PST) From: BalaSundaraRaman sundarbe...@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] New admins on the list To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Message-ID: 308093.15198...@web59904.mail.ac4.yahoo.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi, Some people mistook the pun I used in my previous email. Just to clarify, Prashanth and Srikanth are excellent choices for this and I used the term overlords in the same sense as admins referring to themselves self-deprecatingly as the cabal and such. Hope it clarifies. :) - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture From: BalaSundaraRaman sundarbe...@yahoo.com To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 9:55:22 AM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] New admins on the list sarcasmI welcome our new overlords, Prashanth and Logic. :)/sarcasm - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture From: Hari Prasad Nadig hpna...@gmail.com To: Wikimedia India List wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 3:29:44 PM Subject: [Wikimediaindia-l] New admins on the list Hi everyone, Two new admins have been added to this list. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Prashanthns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Logicwiki (Srikanth L) Here's a thanks to these two long time Wikipedians and highly respected contributors for expressing willingness to take up admin work on the list. Also, starting today, the description of the list would read Wikimedia India Community list as that seems more appropriate. Cheers, -- Hari Prasad Nadig http://twitter.com/hpnadig http://flickr.com/hpnadig -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediaindia-l/attachments/20110221/e873f256/attachment.htm -- ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l End of Wikimediaindia-l Digest, Vol 32, Issue 95 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] New admins on the list
i think you used the meme incorrectly. =) Should be current with pop culture or stay away from such memes, I suppose. :P - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture - Original Message From: Gautam John gau...@prathambooks.org To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Cc: BalaSundaraRaman sundarbe...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 1:04:59 PM Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] New admins on the list On 22 February 2011 13:03, BalaSundaraRaman sundarbe...@yahoo.com wrote: Some people mistook the pun I used in my previous email. i think you used the meme incorrectly. =) [cited from] http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-for-one-welcome-our-new-x-overlords Indeed, they are excellent choices! Thank you. Best, Gautam http://social.prathambooks.org/ ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] New admins on the list
Yes, please. Lets move on. It's getting a bit hot in here. :) On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 3:46 PM, Achal Prabhala aprabh...@gmail.com wrote: I think we should move on and safely assume in this instance that Sundar meant absolutely no scorn :) (and +1 for more humour on this list) On Tuesday 22 February 2011 03:36 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote: Hoi, For me the tags have quite the opposite meaning.. check out your dictionary ... I did mine Sarcasm: witty language used to convey insults or scorn Thanks, GerardM 2011/2/22 shirish शिरीष shirisha...@gmail.com mailto:shirisha...@gmail.com At bottom :- On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 15:02, BalaSundaraRaman sundarbe...@yahoo.com mailto:sundarbe...@yahoo.com wrote: i think you used the meme incorrectly. =) Should be current with pop culture or stay away from such memes, I suppose. :P I think it was appropriate, we should have some doses of humor every now and then and didn't think he meant any harm . The scarcasm tag was enough (atleast for me) to know that Bala was joking :P - Sundar That language is an instrument of human reason, and not merely a medium for the expression of thought, is a truth generally admitted. - George Boole, quoted in Iverson's Turing Award Lecture -- Regards, Shirish Agarwal शिरीष अग्रवाल My quotes in this email licensed under CC 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/ http://flossexperiences.wordpress.com 065C 6D79 A68C E7EA 52B3 8D70 950D 53FB 729A 8B17 ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org mailto:Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
[Wikimediaindia-l] The Narayam extension
Hoi, The Narayam extension was developed to support keyboard methods. It was first developed for the Malayalam language as a script that was running locally and then as Junaid PV became a MediaWiki developer, it and the support for other languages was included in this extension. I blogged today about the relevance of this functionality and I asked Raon, one of the MediaWiki developers, if he is happy to bring it into production and finally I asked the good people at translatewiki.net to support its localisation. So this is the situation: - this project can support many languages - for some languages more testing is needed - for some languages there is a request to be included - some languages are included - Shiju Alex is coordinating this effort - Junaid PV is developing the code - You are needed to localise this software at translatewiki.net As I know it, this is the first software contribution coming from the Indian communities and, I could not be more pleased with it. Please help by helping yourself and yes, we would like to see more Indian MediaWiki developers :) Thanks, GerardM http://ultimategerardm.blogspot.com/2011/02/easy-usability-win-for-wikipedia.html http://shijualex.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/typing-solution-integrated-to-sanskrit-wikipedia/ ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] (OT) On the importance of Unicode
On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 11:29 AM, Gautam John gau...@prathambooks.org wrote: 2. Given that we publish in Indian languages, using Unicode fonts are the only way to achieve cross-platform interoperability and is a global standard. 3. Given India's push towards copyright reform for the print impaired, it is imperative that Unicode fonts be used in the creation of Indic content because it is otherwise a huge barrier to conversion to print-friendly formats. 4. Unicode, being an open global standard guarantees content accessibility in the future and ensures no proprietary font and vendor lock in. I think you have some confusion on Unicode and Fonts. Let me try to clarify in simple words. Unicode is an encoding standard. it says how a 'letter' is represented by a group of bits or bytes. And it ensures a uniqueness for each of the letters across thousands of languages in the world. Fonts are just clothes for these data. sometimes optimized for web, sometimes for print. sometimes fancy... Data can exist without fonts too. Only thing is one cannot see the data properly.or you see them naked(as question marks, squares or raw code points depending on your operating system environment) So if you say 'using unicode fonts for indic content, it does not make sense. we cannot represent or store data in fonts. or when you say unicode fonts are the only way to achieve interoperability:, it is wrong since it is encoding standard makes interoperability possible. Unicode data does not have dependency on the font. Font is users choice and it is at readers side. But I know that many people still use the term data in unicode fonts, data in xyz font etc. This usage came into existence just because, before unicode was popular, most of the Indian publishers used a non-standard way of representing our data- using English(or latin -ascii) data and change the font's 'face' to Indian glyph. a fancy dress hack. The letter k will be shown as hindi ka with the help of a font. ie the data is still english, but what you see is Hindi. Obviously the data cannot be presented to anybody without this special clothes. If you get this data and don't have the associated font, what you see will be just some junk latin characters. Many publishers created their own fonts with this technique in their own way. So to send some data to your friend, you need to tell him that, hey, this data is in Sree Font.. this data is in Kathika font etc. Even after Unicode is popular, a very small percentage of publishers moved to Unicode, and others still continue with ASCII font dependent data. If one uses Unicode, no need to mention about font. One can read it using a good unicode compatible font of his/her choice. So data is in unicode encoding is correct. data is in unicode font is wrong. data can be viewed using any unicode compatible font is correct. I hope it is clear. 5. The limitation is on the lack of high quality and varied typefaces that are both screen and print optimised open type Indic Unicode fonts. This is true. Fonts exist for all scripts , but the variety , or quality of the existing fonts varies. Availability of fonts licensed in foss compatible license is also a problem. For a detailed list of Indic fonts with license info, see http://indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/IndicFontsList 6. Given the importance of linguistic diversity to India's cultural heritage, it is imperative that greater attention is paid to the development of such fonts under licenses that allow for free re-use and to fix issues in the fonts that might arise. You are correct. I would say fonts licensed under any FOSS license instead of free use/reuse. 7. The Govt. should fund the open development of at least 5 such fonts for each the 21 Constitutionally recognised languages and make these available not just for free, but under free license to re-use and improve as well. You got it. But history shows that such funding did not play much role in development of the fonts listed here: http://indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/IndicFontsList In fact, the funds were spent(read wasted) for the development of Proprietary fonts by government agencies like CDAC. Fonts with free(dom) licenses were developed and maintained by FOSS developer communities. Thanks Santhosh Thottingal http://thottingal.in ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] (OT) On the importance of Unicode
On 22 February 2011 22:29, Santhosh Thottingal santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com wrote: I think you have some confusion on Unicode and Fonts. Let me try to clarify in simple words. Yes - I did! And thank you for such a detailed response. To see if I have understood this - there are three components: 1. Input (Different types of keyboard layouts are used but are independent of the method of encoding - correct?) 2. Encoding and storing the input (ASCII is the older method - have heard of ISCII as well but do not know what that is but Unicode is the standard. 3. Representing, visually for the human user, what has been inputed and encoded. (Font or type faces and these are, to an extent, independent of the encoding method used.) But I know that many people still use the term data in unicode fonts, data in xyz font etc. This usage came into existence just because, before unicode was popular, most of the Indian publishers used a non-standard way of representing our data- using English(or latin -ascii) data and change the font's 'face' to Indian glyph. a fancy dress hack. The letter k will be shown as hindi ka with the help of a font. ie the data is still english, but what you see is Hindi. So if I understand correctly, not only is the encoding in ASCII but the representation of that encoding is tied to a particular font (that was used for representation at entry?) and will only be represented properly when using that font? However, what I am trying to understand is whether there is consistency across the ASCII encoding? Will ka in Hindi be encoded in ASCII only one way or is there a linkage, that I do not understand, to the font used to represent it as well? The reason I ask is because if ka in Hindi is always encoded the same way irrespective of the font used to represent it, then it should not be hard to build an ASCII to Unicode map of encoding that will only have to be done once for each language? Though something tells me I am way off on this assumption. This is true. Fonts exist for all scripts , but the variety , or quality of the existing fonts varies. Availability of fonts licensed in foss compatible license is also a problem. For a detailed list of Indic fonts with license info, see http://indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/IndicFontsList Thanks, Santosh. This is a really useful. Also, are these screen or print ready fonts? You are correct. I would say fonts licensed under any FOSS license instead of free use/reuse. Indeed. FOSS license is what I should have said. In fact, the funds were spent(read wasted) for the development of Proprietary fonts by government agencies like CDAC. Fonts with free(dom) licenses were developed and maintained by FOSS developer communities. *sigh* In your opinion, would they be any real benefit if they did license the ILDC series under a true FOSS license? Each Unicode character is multi-byte character while in ASCII, it is single byte. Ah. Okay. I understand now. This is not comparable since search is not possible in ascii font way of representing data. Since the data is not in Hindi , but we just see as Hindi, one cannot do a search or any such data processing on that data. If I understand, it is not possible to search within ASCII encoded text but this can be done in Unicode encoded text? Thank you very much Santosh - I have learned a lot from this. Best, Gautam ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] (OT) On the importance of Unicode
On 2/22/11, Gautam John gau...@prathambooks.org wrote: On 22 February 2011 22:29, Santhosh Thottingal santhosh.thottin...@gmail.com wrote: I think you have some confusion on Unicode and Fonts. Let me try to clarify in simple words. Yes - I did! And thank you for such a detailed response. To see if I have understood this - there are three components: 1. Input (Different types of keyboard layouts are used but are independent of the method of encoding - correct?) 2. Encoding and storing the input (ASCII is the older method - have heard of ISCII as well but do not know what that is but Unicode is the standard. 3. Representing, visually for the human user, what has been inputed and encoded. (Font or type faces and these are, to an extent, independent of the encoding method used.) There are Four Components 1. Input Methods ( GOI approved Inscript layout, Various Popular Layouts , Translitraton Keyboards, Phonetic Keyboards) 2. Encoding ( unicode) 3. Font (Opentype Fonts ie. supporting Unicode) 4. Rendering Engines (this does the shaping of Complex Glyphs using the Open type font table in Fonts . eg. Pango in Gnome, Harfbuzz in KDE, ICU in Openoffice java based programmes , Uniscribe in Windows etc ) But I know that many people still use the term data in unicode fonts, data in xyz font etc. This usage came into existence just because, before unicode was popular, most of the Indian publishers used a non-standard way of representing our data- using English(or latin -ascii) data and change the font's 'face' to Indian glyph. a fancy dress hack. The letter k will be shown as hindi ka with the help of a font. ie the data is still english, but what you see is Hindi. So if I understand correctly, not only is the encoding in ASCII but the representation of that encoding is tied to a particular font (that was used for representation at entry?) and will only be represented properly when using that font? However, what I am trying to understand is whether there is consistency across the ASCII encoding? Will ka in Hindi be encoded in ASCII only one way or is there a linkage, that I do not understand, to the font used to represent it as well? ASCII is not like Unicode. It only understands latin, not any other language. All over India, legacy, non-standard local language technologies (ugly hacks) have gained deep roots. Local newspaper websites as well as publishing houses seem to use their own non-standard fonts. This means that documents and web sites get tied to fonts. These fonts may or may not be freely available, and in some extreme cases, may be no longer available at all. If you lose the font, you lose the content as well. Ka in Hindi may be mapped in the position of A in some font , in the position of H in some other font as per the convenience of font developer The reason I ask is because if ka in Hindi is always encoded the same way irrespective of the font used to represent it, then it should not be hard to build an ASCII to Unicode map of encoding that will only have to be done once for each language? Though something tells me I am way off on this assumption. It is Font dependent. There is a need of Preparing Conversion maps for each Ascii font to convert data encoded in them to unicode. Swathanthra Malayalam Computing's Payyan's (http://wiki.smc.org.in/Payyans ) is a tool developed for converting ASCII to Unicode easily for any Indic Language by building a Font map for each needed font . This tool helped Malayalam Wiktionary to convert many copyright expired books in non standard encodings to Unicode Popular Firefox extension named Padma uses similar encoding conversion tables to display ASCII news websites in Unicode This is true. Fonts exist for all scripts , but the variety , or quality of the existing fonts varies. Availability of fonts licensed in foss compatible license is also a problem. For a detailed list of Indic fonts with license info, see http://indlinux.org/wiki/index.php/IndicFontsList Thanks, Santosh. This is a really useful. Also, are these screen or print ready fonts? Each Language Communities can answer this question well. In Malayalam we have both screen and print fonts, including one Ornamental font . You are correct. I would say fonts licensed under any FOSS license instead of free use/reuse. Indeed. FOSS license is what I should have said. In fact, the funds were spent(read wasted) for the development of Proprietary fonts by government agencies like CDAC. Fonts with free(dom) licenses were developed and maintained by FOSS developer communities. *sigh* In your opinion, would they be any real benefit if they did license the ILDC series under a true FOSS license? I dont think this will happen. There is a long history of lobbying for thiswith CDAC from 2001 Onwards and nothing happened. CDAC made enough money by selling ASCII fonts(and still makes) and They cant even think about giving them away with a FOSS
[Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia gets worried about legal liability in India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-02-21/News_and_notes Dynamic content so copy-pasting relevant text Foundation appoints consultant for National Programs in India, following search for National Program Director The Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a consultant for National Programs, India, whose role will be to design and implement specific pilot programs that encourage many more Indians to become contributors to our projects in Indic languages as well as English. The new position is being filled by Hisham Mundol, who worked on large-scale national programs on HIV/AIDS prevention when he was a consultant for the Public Health Foundation of India. As Hisham Mundol said in his first IRC office hours, he speaks Hindi, Malayalam and English, and is currently based in Delhi. The announcement by the Wikimedia Foundation's Chief Global Development Officer, Barry Newstead, explained that Mundol is a newcomer to the Wikimedia movement [who] will be spending the coming weeks (not months!) in learning mode. In an FAQ on the new position, it was explained that among the 179 applications, there were only seven from active Wikimedians, who do not have the required experience. The Foundation had not been advertising a job opening for a consultant for National Programs. Instead, the job opening in last August was for a National Program Director, India, who would have been the Wikimedia Foundation's chief representative in India. Newstead did not mention the previous job title or explain the modifications, except to note in the FAQ that the new position was as consultant rather than a staffer, partly because we want to keep our options open in regards to the potential structure of future Wikimedia Foundation operations in India. It is likely that concerns about such a director's exposure to legal liability for Wikimedia content may have played a role. Asked in the IRC office hour about the strategy we have for dealing with legal issues in India, Newstead emphasized that the Indian chapter and Hisham, who is an independent contractor, have NO control over Wikimedia content as organizations. Discussing such concerns further, he advised the Indian chapter to get a good legal counsel, and align with organizations like the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS), which might be inclined to support Wikipedia. -- [It is not] possible to distinguish between 'numerical' and 'nonnumerical' algorithms, as if numbers were somehow different from other kinds of precise information. - Donald Knuth ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia gets worried about legal liabilityin India
I will respond fully when I get to my computer and read the whole article. Suffice it to say that the appointment of Hisham as a consultant is not a result of increased concerns about legal liability. We decided that we were comfortable with a consultant role for now given the role responsibilities. We continue to evaluate other structural options. We are concerned about legal liability, of course, as defending the projects has and continues to be a core role for WMF. This concern isn't new, despite increased focus on legal questions on this list. I have had some informal conversations about legal questions and WMF's new General Counsel Geoff Brigham has this as a priority as he gets started. Happy to address questions that people have (or pass them to Geoff), though I cannot speak as a legal authority as I am not an attorney, nor do I speak for the WMF on legal issues. Will respond to Signpost later on. Best, Barry Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Achal Prabhala aprabh...@gmail.com Sender: wikimediaindia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2011 13:06:38 To: Wikimedia India Community listwikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Reply-To: Wikimedia India Community list wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Wikipedia gets worried about legal liability in India I'm not sure this is an accurate description of the situation; perhaps the title has more to do with the fact that the Wikimedia Foundation (as opposed to the chapter) is not a registered entity in India. However, as I don't work for/ speak for the foundation, I don't know for sure - and maybe someone from the foundation - Barry? - could clarify this better. On Wednesday 23 February 2011 01:00 PM, Anivar Aravind wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-02-21/News_and_notes Dynamic content so copy-pasting relevant text Foundation appoints consultant for National Programs in India, following search for National Program Director The Wikimedia Foundation has appointed a consultant for National Programs, India, whose role will be to design and implement specific pilot programs that encourage many more Indians to become contributors to our projects in Indic languages as well as English. The new position is being filled by Hisham Mundol, who worked on large-scale national programs on HIV/AIDS prevention when he was a consultant for the Public Health Foundation of India. As Hisham Mundol said in his first IRC office hours, he speaks Hindi, Malayalam and English, and is currently based in Delhi. The announcement by the Wikimedia Foundation's Chief Global Development Officer, Barry Newstead, explained that Mundol is a newcomer to the Wikimedia movement [who] will be spending the coming weeks (not months!) in learning mode. In an FAQ on the new position, it was explained that among the 179 applications, there were only seven from active Wikimedians, who do not have the required experience. The Foundation had not been advertising a job opening for a consultant for National Programs. Instead, the job opening in last August was for a National Program Director, India, who would have been the Wikimedia Foundation's chief representative in India. Newstead did not mention the previous job title or explain the modifications, except to note in the FAQ that the new position was as consultant rather than a staffer, partly because we want to keep our options open in regards to the potential structure of future Wikimedia Foundation operations in India. It is likely that concerns about such a director's exposure to legal liability for Wikimedia content may have played a role. Asked in the IRC office hour about the strategy we have for dealing with legal issues in India, Newstead emphasized that the Indian chapter and Hisham, who is an independent contractor, have NO control over Wikimedia content as organizations. Discussing such concerns further, he advised the Indian chapter to get a good legal counsel, and align with organizations like the Centre for Internet and Society (CIS), which might be inclined to support Wikipedia. ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
