Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
+1
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 09:52, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Folks
I'm deliberately opening a new mail chain on this. This is at the risk of
me being told off for doing so - but I believe that email protocol is one
thing - but communication philosophy is (arguably) even more critical.
I (and personally upsetting to me, others at India Programs - namely
Nitika the Campus Ambassadors) have taken some beating over the past few
days. Some has been personal and not been circumspect or constructive;
not pretty. I have been touched by the offlist messages of comfort and
support that I and the others have got.
I am exceedingly worried about the impact it has had on team morale. To
all those who have criticised the India Education Program, spare a thought
for the volunteers who have helped out on this. I want to tell the Campus
Ambassadors to be strong and keep your chins up. You guys have been
incredible. Hand on heart, you have given your hearts and souls and have
conducted probably the single biggest Wikipedia outreach program in the
world. (btw, I really don't care if someone wants to tag this as {citation
required.}) You have taken time out of your working lives and college
days. I know how tough it's been - conducting more than 100 in-class
sessions, working with so many students and faculty, reaching out on email
and talk pages and SMS and mobile calls and social networks and in
canteens, poring over student entries, learning Wikipedia policies,
figuring out new tools to help your work, building relationships with
other editors across the globe, doing the back-breaking documentation
that's been required on project course pages, and I can go on and on and
on. I know that sustaining this level of motivation and energy over months
has been hard on you. I also know some of you faltered. I know some of
you wanted to scream and kick someone some times, maybe even many people
many times! Keep the faith, guys.
I am sorry for the personal attack on Nitika. To her, I want to publicly
apologise. I know her to be hard-working, diligent, honest, competent and
an all-round professional. She's new and she's learning and has and will
make mistakes - like all of us do. It is fantastic to have her on the
team. Period.
The program is a pilot - and we made a ton of mistakes. Sorry, let me
rephrase that. I led the initiative so all responsibility should be mine.
I made a ton of mistakes. I promise the following. We will have a
thorough, honest and fact based evaluation. We will be open to make all
the changes that are required. We will not let the events of the past few
days force us into a bunker mentality. We will be open and we will be
intellectually rigorous. We will learn and we will improve. The India
opportunity is massive - and our ambitions are huge. It is also fraught
with challenges. Unless we try and do things - new and tough and complex
things - we will never be able to realise our true potential.
I know that some who have participated in these exchanges are driven by an
awe-inspiring love and passion for Wikipedia. I urge you to continue to
come forward and work with others and us. Come forward early though - and
stay engaged through the journey. It will have ups and downs.
On communication, I urge everyone to maintain WP:CIVILITY and WP:NPOV in
all our interactions. On this - and to be fair - quite a few other
interactions recently on totally unrelated topics (and involving a whole
host of others), I daresay we have drifted from core Wikipedia principles.
These should apply to us to all our community's interactions as
religiously as we apply them to our projects.
I would urge folks who agree with me to write back. Even a +1 will do.
Let's hear the voices of the quieter folks. Let's hear from the folks who
don't always get involved in mailing list exchanges out of either
apprehension or apathy. Let's move forward.
Warm Regards,
hisham
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
+1
From one another of those silent spectator or quiet one.. :)
A pilot program is undertaken to always test the situation and gauge how
it would deliver in a real life situation. That is exactly why it is
known as a pilot or a UAT or a test.
With due respect to others in the thread, whoever has been expressing
their opinions and thoughts, lets be honest about the fact that the Pune
Pilot has been a success, a resounding success. The pilot was intended
to be a learning experience and you should be taking back that learning
to fine tune the future initiatives. It needs to be gauged on the
learning that has been gained and nothing else, absolutely nothing else
should be the benchmark.
Let us only look at what has been gained and not at what has been lost.
May be that is the Indian mentality, but that is a mentality which is
encouraging for all those CA's to contribute further and evolve
themselves as better Wikipedians.
Abhi
On 15-Nov-2011 9:52 AM, Hisham wrote:
Hi Folks
I'm deliberately opening a new mail chain on this. This is at the
risk of me being told off for doing so - but I believe that email
protocol is one thing - but communication philosophy is (arguably)
even more critical.
I (and personally upsetting to me, others at India Programs - namely
Nitika the Campus Ambassadors) have taken some beating over the past
few days. Some has been personal and not been circumspect or
constructive; not pretty. I have been touched by the offlist messages
of comfort and support that I and the others have got.
I am exceedingly worried about the impact it has had on team morale.
To all those who have criticised the India Education Program, spare a
thought for the volunteers who have helped out on this. I want to
tell the Campus Ambassadors to be strong and keep your chins up. You
guys have been incredible. Hand on heart, you have given your hearts
and souls and have conducted probably the single biggest Wikipedia
outreach program in the world. (btw, I really don't care if someone
wants to tag this as {citation required.}) You have taken time out of
your working lives and college days. I know how tough it's been -
conducting more than 100 in-class sessions, working with so many
students and faculty, reaching out on email and talk pages and SMS and
mobile calls and social networks and in canteens, poring over student
entries, learning Wikipedia policies, figuring out new tools to help
your work, building relationships with other editors across the
globe, doing the back-breaking documentation that's been required on
project course pages, and I can go on and on and on. I know that
sustaining this level of motivation and energy over months has been
hard on you. I also know some of you faltered. I know some of you
wanted to scream and kick someone some times, maybe even many people
many times! Keep the faith, guys.
I am sorry for the personal attack on Nitika. To her, I want to
publicly apologise. I know her to be hard-working, diligent, honest,
competent and an all-round professional. She's new and she's learning
and has and will make mistakes - like all of us do. It is fantastic
to have her on the team. Period.
The program is a pilot - and we made a ton of mistakes. Sorry, let me
rephrase that. I led the initiative so all responsibility should be
mine. I made a ton of mistakes. I promise the following. We will
have a thorough, honest and fact based evaluation. We will be open to
make all the changes that are required. We will not let the events of
the past few days force us into a bunker mentality. We will be open
and we will be intellectually rigorous. We will learn and we will
improve. The India opportunity is massive - and our ambitions are
huge. It is also fraught with challenges. Unless we try and do
things - new and tough and complex things - we will never be able to
realise our true potential.
I know that some who have participated in these exchanges are driven
by an awe-inspiring love and passion for Wikipedia. I urge you to
continue to come forward and work with others and us. Come forward
early though - and stay engaged through the journey. It will have ups
and downs.
On communication, I urge everyone to maintain WP:CIVILITY and WP:NPOV
in all our interactions. On this - and to be fair - quite a few other
interactions recently on totally unrelated topics (and involving a
whole host of others), I daresay we have drifted from core Wikipedia
principles. These should apply to us to all our community's
interactions as religiously as we apply them to our projects.
I would urge folks who agree with me to write back. Even a +1 will
do. Let's hear the voices of the quieter folks. Let's hear from the
folks who don't always get involved in mailing list exchanges out of
either apprehension or apathy. Let's move forward.
Warm Regards,
hisham
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: And - to stay with the sandbox metaphor from another thread - if the majority of contributors to a university-based program in India can reach won't be able to contribute at an acceptable quality in WP proper, then perhaps it's also time to think about more aggressive sandboxing of contributions early in the game, at least when we're dealing with a course where we either don't know what to expect, or we _do_ based on experiences like the one to date. Possibly even using an external sandbox. If I understand it rightly, Erik points out that one of the questions raised here is the validity of the University-centric approach to this program. Hisham will recall I had queried this approach at a meetup way back when. This was before I found that it had a history, being a successful initiative in another milieu. I am sure now, with this experience, we can find ways to make the program work more effectively here, one possibility (not the only one) being shedding the college campus-centric focus, and reaching out more widely to people, in order to welcome more people within the contributory fold. As Abhilash points out, this was a pilot, and it is up to us to evaluate its learnings and move forward from it, not trash it or its participants. -- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
+1 Also enough of fault finding has been done I guess, lets move to Solution now. We ll definitely come back, and we ll come back with a greater impact in which everyone's participation is expected. So henceforth please give solutions rather than finding faults. Sincerely, A Wikipedian Campus Ambassador. On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcris...@radiophony.comwrote: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: And - to stay with the sandbox metaphor from another thread - if the majority of contributors to a university-based program in India can reach won't be able to contribute at an acceptable quality in WP proper, then perhaps it's also time to think about more aggressive sandboxing of contributions early in the game, at least when we're dealing with a course where we either don't know what to expect, or we _do_ based on experiences like the one to date. Possibly even using an external sandbox. If I understand it rightly, Erik points out that one of the questions raised here is the validity of the University-centric approach to this program. Hisham will recall I had queried this approach at a meetup way back when. This was before I found that it had a history, being a successful initiative in another milieu. I am sure now, with this experience, we can find ways to make the program work more effectively here, one possibility (not the only one) being shedding the college campus-centric focus, and reaching out more widely to people, in order to welcome more people within the contributory fold. As Abhilash points out, this was a pilot, and it is up to us to evaluate its learnings and move forward from it, not trash it or its participants. -- Vickram Fool On The Hill http://communicall.wordpress.com ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l -- Thanks Arnav (ricku). (User:Rangilo_Gujarati) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rangilo_Gujarati ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 4:26 PM, Vickram Crishna vvcris...@radiophony.com wrote: On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org wrote: And - to stay with the sandbox metaphor from another thread - if the majority of contributors to a university-based program in India can reach won't be able to contribute at an acceptable quality in WP proper, then perhaps it's also time to think about more aggressive sandboxing of contributions early in the game, at least when we're dealing with a course where we either don't know what to expect, or we _do_ based on experiences like the one to date. Possibly even using an external sandbox. If I understand it rightly, Erik points out that one of the questions raised here is the validity of the University-centric approach to this program. Hisham will recall I had queried this approach at a meetup way back when. This was before I found that it had a history, being a successful initiative in another milieu. I am sure now, with this experience, we can find ways to make the program work more effectively here, one possibility (not the only one) being shedding the college campus-centric focus, and reaching out more widely to people, in order to welcome more people within the contributory fold. As Abhilash points out, this was a pilot, and it is up to us to evaluate its learnings and move forward from it, not trash it or its participants. -- Vickram +1 Vickram. I shared the same concerns on assignment based university centric model. In addition I had concerns with omitting indic language wiki contributions from Pune Pilot , which i tried to express in an IRC meetup. Lets move forward with the learnings, but with wide consultations on improved programme plan with the involvement of communities . This whole story , reminds me some experience in FOSS domain When we are volunteering with Free software movement , to spread FOSS in various campuses, the first info we used to provide after any presentation while reaching out to a new campus is sharing information on how to join in local LUG , or initiate a LUG in college. During the same time, companies like SUN was appointing campus ambassadors, and pumping money to promote their open source initiatives, but in a non-collaborative way,through direct links with college administration. Many times FOSS Activists have to fight with this approach of Campus Ambassadors, who does not value the movement or community to get permission for holding a programme in campus . But over time, what sustained is FOSS community initiatives and their mode of budding new developers . Anivar ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
+1
Thank you.
Best,
Gautam
(handheld)
On Nov 15, 2011 9:53 AM, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Folks
I'm deliberately opening a new mail chain on this. This is at the risk of
me being told off for doing so - but I believe that email protocol is one
thing - but communication philosophy is (arguably) even more critical.
I (and personally upsetting to me, others at India Programs - namely
Nitika the Campus Ambassadors) have taken some beating over the past few
days. Some has been personal and not been circumspect or constructive;
not pretty. I have been touched by the offlist messages of comfort and
support that I and the others have got.
I am exceedingly worried about the impact it has had on team morale. To
all those who have criticised the India Education Program, spare a thought
for the volunteers who have helped out on this. I want to tell the Campus
Ambassadors to be strong and keep your chins up. You guys have been
incredible. Hand on heart, you have given your hearts and souls and have
conducted probably the single biggest Wikipedia outreach program in the
world. (btw, I really don't care if someone wants to tag this as {citation
required.}) You have taken time out of your working lives and college
days. I know how tough it's been - conducting more than 100 in-class
sessions, working with so many students and faculty, reaching out on email
and talk pages and SMS and mobile calls and social networks and in
canteens, poring over student entries, learning Wikipedia policies,
figuring out new tools to help your work, building relationships with
other editors across the globe, doing the back-breaking documentation
that's been required on project course pages, and I can go on and on and
on. I know that sustaining this level of motivation and energy over months
has been hard on you. I also know some of you faltered. I know some of
you wanted to scream and kick someone some times, maybe even many people
many times! Keep the faith, guys.
I am sorry for the personal attack on Nitika. To her, I want to publicly
apologise. I know her to be hard-working, diligent, honest, competent and
an all-round professional. She's new and she's learning and has and will
make mistakes - like all of us do. It is fantastic to have her on the
team. Period.
The program is a pilot - and we made a ton of mistakes. Sorry, let me
rephrase that. I led the initiative so all responsibility should be mine.
I made a ton of mistakes. I promise the following. We will have a
thorough, honest and fact based evaluation. We will be open to make all
the changes that are required. We will not let the events of the past few
days force us into a bunker mentality. We will be open and we will be
intellectually rigorous. We will learn and we will improve. The India
opportunity is massive - and our ambitions are huge. It is also fraught
with challenges. Unless we try and do things - new and tough and complex
things - we will never be able to realise our true potential.
I know that some who have participated in these exchanges are driven by an
awe-inspiring love and passion for Wikipedia. I urge you to continue to
come forward and work with others and us. Come forward early though - and
stay engaged through the journey. It will have ups and downs.
On communication, I urge everyone to maintain WP:CIVILITY and WP:NPOV in
all our interactions. On this - and to be fair - quite a few other
interactions recently on totally unrelated topics (and involving a whole
host of others), I daresay we have drifted from core Wikipedia principles.
These should apply to us to all our community's interactions as
religiously as we apply them to our projects.
I would urge folks who agree with me to write back. Even a +1 will do.
Let's hear the voices of the quieter folks. Let's hear from the folks who
don't always get involved in mailing list exchanges out of either
apprehension or apathy. Let's move forward.
Warm Regards,
hisham
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Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
I guess I'm one of the apprehensive/apathetic quiet ones Hisham's mail
refers to, so here goes:
+1
I have maintained my silence so far in the numerous discussions as I
intended to express my views cohesively at the opportunity given to me at
the WikiConference. However, I feel obliged to speak up when the
discussions have moved past criticism to borderline attacks on people who
have worked hard and worked honestly.
I have been involved in the Pune pilot as a fellow, at first, and
informally later. I too, therefore, shoulder the responsibility of the
results of the program being a contributor to it. I will also be presenting
a review (my opinions and experiences) from at the WikiConference. Having
been the only 'Wikipedian' in the program, let me first stand up and say,
if we do brand the Pune Pilot as a failure (which it definitely is not), it
must classify as an effort which has achieved more than most successful
Wiki-initiatives. I would also point out the untiring dedication and hard
work put in by the CAs, the superhuman efforts of PJ Tabit in setting up
the program and the superlative leadership efforts of Hisham and Nitika.
That having been said, the program isn't where it set out to be. But that
is what a pilot programme is. A dipstick test. A method, field tested to
understand real-world reactions to it. I remember one statement made by
Hisham, right at the beginning of the program while we were approaching
colleges to sign up for the program who were urging us to alter the nature
of the program to suit them:
*It is important that we decide one way of doing the program and stick
with the core principles of it. This would be better than trying several
approaches, failing and not knowing where you went wrong* [not verbatim,
my interpretation of something similar]
I considered this to be a obfuscated yet quintessential objective of a
Pilot program. To try, to stumble and then evaluate. And the evaluation
will happen. Discussions about the campus program are a significant chunk
of the program schedule at the WikiConference. And informal discussions
will undoubtedly extend the allotted time. The reviews have already begun
in the discussions on this list where significant headway has been made in
the evaluation. But it is unfortunate when criticisms overflow into
personal jabs and aspersions on competence.
Srikanth earlier in the discussion had stated that he wondered if we're
succumbing to the Indian mentality of highlighting only success and hiding
failures. I believe that we must also move away from the stereotyped Indian
mentality of punishing failures to evaluating good-faith ventures and
collaboratively developing improvements towards a common goal.
No grudges held, no bad faith assumed.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Folks
I'm deliberately opening a new mail chain on this. This is at the risk of
me being told off for doing so - but I believe that email protocol is one
thing - but communication philosophy is (arguably) even more critical.
I (and personally upsetting to me, others at India Programs - namely
Nitika the Campus Ambassadors) have taken some beating over the past few
days. Some has been personal and not been circumspect or constructive;
not pretty. I have been touched by the offlist messages of comfort and
support that I and the others have got.
I am exceedingly worried about the impact it has had on team morale. To
all those who have criticised the India Education Program, spare a thought
for the volunteers who have helped out on this. I want to tell the Campus
Ambassadors to be strong and keep your chins up. You guys have been
incredible. Hand on heart, you have given your hearts and souls and have
conducted probably the single biggest Wikipedia outreach program in the
world. (btw, I really don't care if someone wants to tag this as {citation
required.}) You have taken time out of your working lives and college
days. I know how tough it's been - conducting more than 100 in-class
sessions, working with so many students and faculty, reaching out on email
and talk pages and SMS and mobile calls and social networks and in
canteens, poring over student entries, learning Wikipedia policies,
figuring out new tools to help your work, building relationships with
other editors across the globe, doing the back-breaking documentation
that's been required on project course pages, and I can go on and on and
on. I know that sustaining this level of motivation and energy over months
has been hard on you. I also know some of you faltered. I know some of
you wanted to scream and kick someone some times, maybe even many people
many times! Keep the faith, guys.
I am sorry for the personal attack on Nitika. To her, I want to publicly
apologise. I know her to be hard-working, diligent, honest, competent and
an all-round professional. She's new and she's learning and has and will
make mistakes - like
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
+1 for Hisham and Srikeit.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 10:38 AM, Srikeit srik...@gmail.com wrote:
I guess I'm one of the apprehensive/apathetic quiet ones Hisham's mail
refers to, so here goes:
+1
I have maintained my silence so far in the numerous discussions as I
intended to express my views cohesively at the opportunity given to me at
the WikiConference. However, I feel obliged to speak up when the
discussions have moved past criticism to borderline attacks on people who
have worked hard and worked honestly.
I have been involved in the Pune pilot as a fellow, at first, and
informally later. I too, therefore, shoulder the responsibility of the
results of the program being a contributor to it. I will also be presenting
a review (my opinions and experiences) from at the WikiConference. Having
been the only 'Wikipedian' in the program, let me first stand up and say,
if we do brand the Pune Pilot as a failure (which it definitely is not), it
must classify as an effort which has achieved more than most successful
Wiki-initiatives. I would also point out the untiring dedication and hard
work put in by the CAs, the superhuman efforts of PJ Tabit in setting up
the program and the superlative leadership efforts of Hisham and Nitika.
That having been said, the program isn't where it set out to be. But that
is what a pilot programme is. A dipstick test. A method, field tested to
understand real-world reactions to it. I remember one statement made by
Hisham, right at the beginning of the program while we were approaching
colleges to sign up for the program who were urging us to alter the nature
of the program to suit them:
*It is important that we decide one way of doing the program and stick
with the core principles of it. This would be better than trying several
approaches, failing and not knowing where you went wrong* [not verbatim,
my interpretation of something similar]
I considered this to be a obfuscated yet quintessential objective of a
Pilot program. To try, to stumble and then evaluate. And the evaluation
will happen. Discussions about the campus program are a significant chunk
of the program schedule at the WikiConference. And informal discussions
will undoubtedly extend the allotted time. The reviews have already begun
in the discussions on this list where significant headway has been made in
the evaluation. But it is unfortunate when criticisms overflow into
personal jabs and aspersions on competence.
Srikanth earlier in the discussion had stated that he wondered if we're
succumbing to the Indian mentality of highlighting only success and hiding
failures. I believe that we must also move away from the stereotyped Indian
mentality of punishing failures to evaluating good-faith ventures and
collaboratively developing improvements towards a common goal.
No grudges held, no bad faith assumed.
On Tue, Nov 15, 2011 at 9:52 AM, Hisham hmun...@wikimedia.org wrote:
Hi Folks
I'm deliberately opening a new mail chain on this. This is at the risk
of me being told off for doing so - but I believe that email protocol is
one thing - but communication philosophy is (arguably) even more critical.
I (and personally upsetting to me, others at India Programs - namely
Nitika the Campus Ambassadors) have taken some beating over the past few
days. Some has been personal and not been circumspect or constructive;
not pretty. I have been touched by the offlist messages of comfort and
support that I and the others have got.
I am exceedingly worried about the impact it has had on team morale. To
all those who have criticised the India Education Program, spare a thought
for the volunteers who have helped out on this. I want to tell the Campus
Ambassadors to be strong and keep your chins up. You guys have been
incredible. Hand on heart, you have given your hearts and souls and have
conducted probably the single biggest Wikipedia outreach program in the
world. (btw, I really don't care if someone wants to tag this as {citation
required.}) You have taken time out of your working lives and college
days. I know how tough it's been - conducting more than 100 in-class
sessions, working with so many students and faculty, reaching out on email
and talk pages and SMS and mobile calls and social networks and in
canteens, poring over student entries, learning Wikipedia policies,
figuring out new tools to help your work, building relationships with
other editors across the globe, doing the back-breaking documentation
that's been required on project course pages, and I can go on and on and
on. I know that sustaining this level of motivation and energy over months
has been hard on you. I also know some of you faltered. I know some of
you wanted to scream and kick someone some times, maybe even many people
many times! Keep the faith, guys.
I am sorry for the personal attack on Nitika. To her, I want to publicly
apologise. I know her to be
Re: [Wikimediaindia-l] Let's *Talk*
Well said, Hisham, Srikeit at al. Nobody's asking for rah-rah excitement. Being dispassionate and critical is the goal. Being hostile and dickish is unhelpful -- there's no possible useful end that could serve. So: If you're adding more heat than light to a conversation, please don't join the conversation. If you're attacking others and calling into question their legitimacy in being here, without them having violated any of the ground rules of good faith behavior, you begin violating those norms yourself. Calm down, have a tea, and read some good poetry (or write it, if you're truly suffering :-). At WMF, we'd be completely happy to abandon the Global Education Program model altogether if it turned out to be a failure, and we'd be happy to abandon it for India or other countries if it turned out to be a failure there. Nobody wants to spend $$$ and blood/sweat equity (the only type that exists in nonprofits) on stuff that isn't achieving its intended impact. So far, however, what I've seen is a very successful US initiative followed by an India pilot which has encountered very serious, deep challenges with contribution quality. The analysis that I've seen so far really suggests that what it comes down to is abject contribution quality by lots of the participating students and a routine pattern of copyright infringement (and I would label it plagiarism if they're not identifying the source). Let me know if I got that wrong. That sucks, but if so, that's a problem that needs to be named to be tackled in a serious fashion. No amount of tweaking the program parameters would have solved the issues of the scale and type that have been pointed out. This goes to the fundamentals. And - to stay with the sandbox metaphor from another thread - if the majority of contributors to a university-based program in India can reach won't be able to contribute at an acceptable quality in WP proper, then perhaps it's also time to think about more aggressive sandboxing of contributions early in the game, at least when we're dealing with a course where we either don't know what to expect, or we _do_ based on experiences like the one to date. Possibly even using an external sandbox. Lastly, let's not forget that we haven't made any determination as to what the best methods are to gain, and keep, great new contributors in India (or elsewhere, for that matter). We can, and should, continue to experiment with many different approaches, including some of the suggestions that have been made in previous threads. All the energy, including the occasional flamewar, that I'm seeing here really speaks tons to the strengths of the India community as a whole. Energy, creativity, intelligence and healthy tension are the ingredients of success, not failure. Srikeit, I'll unfortunately miss your talk on Saturday as I'll be at the hackathon. But I look forward to hearing about it and hopefully catching up on Friday. :-) -- Erik Möller VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate ___ Wikimediaindia-l mailing list Wikimediaindia-l@lists.wikimedia.org To unsubscribe from the list / change mailing preferences visit https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaindia-l
