[Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
This handwritten Newgate Prison execution journal of the “Ordinary”, or Chaplain, of Newgate, the Rev. Horace Salusbury Cotton, may be of interest: http://www.peterberthoud.co.uk/2012/08/chilling-unique-unpublished-newgate-prison-execution-journal/ Note the claim of all rights reserved on the images. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 12:40, Andy Mabbett a...@pigsonthewing.org.uk wrote: This handwritten Newgate Prison execution journal of the “Ordinary”, or Chaplain, of Newgate, the Rev. Horace Salusbury Cotton, may be of interest: http://www.peterberthoud.co.uk/2012/08/chilling-unique-unpublished-newgate-prison-execution-journal/ Currently on sale for £5,000, and the blog's author pleads: There must surely be an individual or institution who would be willing and able to properly document the contents of Cotton's unique record of Newgate's executions and put the results into the public domain. Wikisource would be the perfect channel for putting the contents of the journal into the public domain, if only we could get scans of the whole book. What's the possibility of WMUK buying the book for £5,000, scanning it to Commons, then selling the book privately or to a dealer to recover most of the money spent? Andrew ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 13:05, Andrew West andrewcw...@gmail.com wrote: What's the possibility of WMUK buying the book for £5,000, scanning it to Commons, then selling the book privately or to a dealer to recover most of the money spent? The main expense would be the digitisation equipment, I expect, although that would be re-usable (we've been talking about buying such equipment for years, it's never quite made sense to do so, though). Alternatively, we may have a partner that would let us use their equipment. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
Personally, I love the idea of the chapter buying the book, it's a radical first for us. Scanning and promoting the use of the images and text for the public benefit. Then selling the book at either little loss or a likely profit for the charity once we have a lot of public attention on it. All this needs is a volunteer to put in a proposal, explain the time-lines (so we don't take too long to make a decision), and a recommendation for appropriate independent assessment of value and provenance. Cheers, Fae ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 13:29, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Scanning and promoting the use of the images and text for the public benefit. Then selling the book at either little loss or a likely profit for the charity once we have a lot of public attention on it. Slight amendment after thinking over a cup of tea - I would prefer to see it donated to the British Library (or some another worthy public archive) for the permanent public benefit, rather than resell. This fits better with the Wikimedia UK mission and the receiving institution might even help with archive quality digitization. Cheers, Fae ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
not sure about the scalability of this proposal. If we want free information then we need to avoid feeding the market. These guys are going to charge just to glance at an out of copyright book with a camera. If the charge is a pound then we can't afford that model when we look at all possible books (and neither can Africa) Roger On 1 August 2012 13:49, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 August 2012 13:29, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Scanning and promoting the use of the images and text for the public benefit. Then selling the book at either little loss or a likely profit for the charity once we have a lot of public attention on it. Slight amendment after thinking over a cup of tea - I would prefer to see it donated to the British Library (or some another worthy public archive) for the permanent public benefit, rather than resell. This fits better with the Wikimedia UK mission and the receiving institution might even help with archive quality digitization. Cheers, Fae ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org -- Roger Bamkin 01332 702993 0758 2020815 Google+:Victuallers Skype:Victuallers1 Flickr:Victuallers2 ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 13:49, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 August 2012 13:29, Fae fae...@gmail.com wrote: Scanning and promoting the use of the images and text for the public benefit. Then selling the book at either little loss or a likely profit for the charity once we have a lot of public attention on it. Slight amendment after thinking over a cup of tea - I would prefer to see it donated to the British Library (or some another worthy public archive) for the permanent public benefit, rather than resell. This fits better with the Wikimedia UK mission and the receiving institution might even help with archive quality digitization. Much as I would like to say we here at the BL would love you to pay for a new and exciting manuscript, I'm not sure this is the best approach for spending Chapter funds in terms of value returned. Grants for a third party to acquire material is a long way from the sort of thing we've supported before, and while I think you could just about argue it's inside our objectives, I personally have my doubts. (Look at it another way: If an archive had come to us and said we'd like you to fund digitisation of this book, we'd probably say yes at £250, maybe at £500, and start laughing if they said it would cost £5,000.) The best model for cases like this would be to develop a method where we have an agreed partner who'll digitise culturally significant material at a reasonable cost (or a group who can do it in-house, but for material like this that's tricky) and a standing offer to fund it for certain classes of limited-availability material like this. We then approach the auctioneers or booksellers, talk them in to letting us have it for a day to scan it, and let them do as they will after that. One risk here is that the digitisation would lower the marketable value of the final item, but I don't know how we'd quantify this one way or the other. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 13:05, Andrew West andrewcw...@gmail.com wrote: Currently on sale for £5,000, and the blog's author pleads: There must surely be an individual or institution who would be willing and able to properly document the contents of Cotton's unique record of Newgate's executions and put the results into the public domain. Wikisource would be the perfect channel for putting the contents of the journal into the public domain, if only we could get scans of the whole book. Note, incidentally, that there must be some interesting overlap between this and Old Bailey Online, which will document many of the trials that preceded the hangings. http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18120513-5-person102 - for example, is also covered in Cotton. What's the possibility of WMUK buying the book for £5,000, scanning it to Commons, then selling the book privately or to a dealer to recover most of the money spent? I suspect that we would be unlikely to get more than half that were we to sell it direct to a dealer, and goodness only knows if we were to sell it privately. It's a bit of a gamble with donor funds! -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 14:19, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: The best model for cases like this would be to develop a method where we have an agreed partner who'll digitise culturally significant material at a reasonable cost (or a group who can do it in-house, but for material like this that's tricky) and a standing offer to fund it for certain classes of limited-availability material like this. We then approach the auctioneers or booksellers, talk them in to letting us have it for a day to scan it, and let them do as they will after that. We need to develop in-house volunteer expertise, yes. So. What do we need? - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 14:24, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: Note, incidentally, that there must be some interesting overlap between this and Old Bailey Online, which will document many of the trials that preceded the hangings. http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18120513-5-person102 - for example, is also covered in Cotton. True, but their licensing conditions (http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/static/Legal-info.jsp) are incompatible with ours, so they are unlikely to make good partners for us. What's the possibility of WMUK buying the book for £5,000, scanning it to Commons, then selling the book privately or to a dealer to recover most of the money spent? I suspect that we would be unlikely to get more than half that were we to sell it direct to a dealer, and goodness only knows if we were to sell it privately. It's a bit of a gamble with donor funds! You're probably right, I'm afraid. Another idea. How about starting a public appeal to raise the money to buy the book with the intention to donate it to the BL or some other worthy institution, on the condition that they make high resolution scans available under an acceptable license. That way we get lots of good publicity, we're not gambling with money donors might not have wanted us to spend in this way, and we don't have to invest in a professional quality book scanner. Andrew ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 14:31, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 August 2012 14:19, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: The best model for cases like this would be to develop a method where we have an agreed partner who'll digitise culturally significant material at a reasonable cost (or a group who can do it in-house, but for material like this that's tricky) and a standing offer to fund it for certain classes of limited-availability material like this. We then approach the auctioneers or booksellers, talk them in to letting us have it for a day to scan it, and let them do as they will after that. We need to develop in-house volunteer expertise, yes. So. What do we need? The Internet Archive would be the best people to talk to about this; they've experience in deploying scanning machines and training individuals to operate them. I don't know how much the hardware costs, but it seems there's one installed at the Natural History Museum: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/community/library/blog/2012/07/25/bhl-the-vast-library-of-life It might be worth talking to them and asking if we can train a volunteer to use the hardware on an occasional basis, during slack time, to run our own programs. They have the software in place to contribute copies to IA (which ought to be best practice for our digitisation programs anyway), and we can handle the Commons side ourselves; all we need to do then is source the books! I'm happy to contact them and make enquiries about this, unless someone else already has NHM contacts - anyone? *However*, this is the general case for digitisation of normal print works. For manuscript material like this - rare, probably very fragile, and needing careful curation during the scanning process - I'd be really reluctant to let it near a volunteer who didn't have training and experience. For a program like this, outsourcing it is really the best way to go, and it's certainly more likely to be persuasive. -- - Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
On 1 August 2012 14:51, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: The Internet Archive would be the best people to talk to about this; they've experience in deploying scanning machines and training individuals to operate them. I don't know how much the hardware costs, but it seems there's one installed at the Natural History Museum: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/community/library/blog/2012/07/25/bhl-the-vast-library-of-life It might be worth talking to them and asking if we can train a volunteer to use the hardware on an occasional basis, during slack time, to run our own programs. They have the software in place to contribute copies to IA (which ought to be best practice for our digitisation programs anyway), and we can handle the Commons side ourselves; all we need to do then is source the books! I'm happy to contact them and make enquiries about this, unless someone else already has NHM contacts - anyone? +1 *However*, this is the general case for digitisation of normal print works. For manuscript material like this - rare, probably very fragile, and needing careful curation during the scanning process - I'd be really reluctant to let it near a volunteer who didn't have training and experience. For a program like this, outsourcing it is really the best way to go, and it's certainly more likely to be persuasive. Yes. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikimediauk-l] 1814-1839 prison execution journal
If only we had contacts in the Galleries Libraries Archives and Museums who have the skills to handle this type of artifact. On Aug 1, 2012 2:54 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 1 August 2012 14:51, Andrew Gray andrew.g...@dunelm.org.uk wrote: The Internet Archive would be the best people to talk to about this; they've experience in deploying scanning machines and training individuals to operate them. I don't know how much the hardware costs, but it seems there's one installed at the Natural History Museum: http://www.nhm.ac.uk/natureplus/community/library/blog/2012/07/25/bhl-the-vast-library-of-life It might be worth talking to them and asking if we can train a volunteer to use the hardware on an occasional basis, during slack time, to run our own programs. They have the software in place to contribute copies to IA (which ought to be best practice for our digitisation programs anyway), and we can handle the Commons side ourselves; all we need to do then is source the books! I'm happy to contact them and make enquiries about this, unless someone else already has NHM contacts - anyone? +1 *However*, this is the general case for digitisation of normal print works. For manuscript material like this - rare, probably very fragile, and needing careful curation during the scanning process - I'd be really reluctant to let it near a volunteer who didn't have training and experience. For a program like this, outsourcing it is really the best way to go, and it's certainly more likely to be persuasive. Yes. - d. ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org ___ Wikimedia UK mailing list wikimediau...@wikimedia.org http://mail.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediauk-l WMUK: http://uk.wikimedia.org
