Re: [Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) - edition or translation of
Nahum, I suppose the predominant part of my discussion was focusing on published translations, rather than WS-generated translations. 1) because many famous works have (famous) published translations, each with their own translator(s), date of publication, publisher, ... all worthy of noting and WD'ing. 2) you can only link to one work per wiki at WD, and as an example of an issue , I know of numbers of Chekov's works that enWS hosts where we have multiple published translations. So enWS needs a means for link generation for many to one (at ruWS), or for English language works, we may need a one to any. When it comes to WS-generated translations, I can see that we may or may not wish to call those translations their own edition. If a translation passes a notability check of its own edition, then separate, if not, maybe then it comes off the other original language work. (Maybe leave that decision with the xxWS to determine???). What I am hoping to see is a tool that provides the maximum flexibity and credibility for the WSes, yet gives best visibility and authority at WD. Billinghurst On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:35 Nahum Wengrov novar...@gmail.com wrote: Wait a minute. If a work esists in, say, ru.wikisource, And then someone translates that work and posts his translation under a free license in he.wikisource, I am not to link the hebrew version to its source in ru.ws on wikidata, But to create a seperate wikidata entry for it? This makes zero sense to me, and we never did it this way on he.wikisource. On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 2:25 PM, billinghurst billinghurstw...@gmail.com wrote: Thought that the pasted discussion from WD is of interest and adds to our recent discussion on interwikis/interlanguage links. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikidata_discourages_interwiki_links Wikidata discourages interwiki links Looking at Zhuangzi (Q1074987) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1074987 *Zhuanhgzi*, I see that this data item is only for the work as it exists in Chinese. The work as translated into English is a separate data item, and the French Wikisource translation is another data item. Effectively, this means that Wikidata discourages interwiki links to and between Wikisource projects, because they will never be part of the same data item. Further, anyone seeking a translation of a work into another language must first come to Wikidata and surf the links even to find out if translations of a work in another language exist on Wikisource; it is not possible to do that from any Wikisource directly. I thought the whole point of moving the links to Wikidata was to promote connections between projects, not to eliminate them. But perhaps I am wrong. --EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey ( talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:EncycloPetey) 02:19, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey: There are other ways to create interwiki by the help of Wikidata. See s:sv:Bibeln 1917 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Bibeln_1917 where I have made some tests with the Bible (Q1845) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1845. The interwiki is created by the help of a Lua-module that follows edition(s) (P747) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P747 and edition or translation of (P629) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P629. The big advantage is that it makes possible to create intewiki to more than one page in every project. For example, that page have 13 links to enwikisource. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 05:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander:This is very interesting, what template (and Lua-module) do you use ? it should be done for all wikisources, that often have a lot of translated texts :) -- Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Hsarrazin) 09:43, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin: It's s:sv:Modul:Sandlåda/Innocent bystander https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Modul:Sandl%C3%A5da/Innocent_bystander who today is included in s:sv:Mall:Titel https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Mall:Titel, a template that can be found in almost every page on svsource. Observe that the module is not secured against loops in the P747/P629-hierarcy. It also needs support by the interwiki-extra-class in s:sv:MediaWiki:Common.js https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:MediaWiki:Common.js, otherwise you cannot have more than one interwiki in each page. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 10:11, 26 July 2015 (UTC)BTW, another thing the code does: It makes it possible to have interwiki to the Text-namespaces in
Re: [Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) - edition or translation of
I agree with Billinghurst that user-made translations do not necessarily have to be dealt with the same way published editions/translations are. However, if the user-made translation is connected to the same WD item as the original work (edition, actually), then we should indicate which of the Wikisource links really leads to the text the statements refer to (i.e., the original work). This can easily be done with property 953, full text available at. Erasmo Barresi Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 07:59:46 + From: billinghurst To: discussion list for Wikisource, the free library , novar...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) - edition or translation of Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Nahum, I suppose the predominant part of my discussion was focusing on published translations, rather than WS-generated translations. 1) because many famous works have (famous) published translations, each with their own translator(s), date of publication, publisher, ... all worthy of noting and WD'ing. 2) you can only link to one work per wiki at WD, and as an example of an issue , I know of numbers of Chekov's works that enWS hosts where we have multiple published translations. So enWS needs a means for link generation for many to one (at ruWS), or for English language works, we may need a one to any. When it comes to WS-generated translations, I can see that we may or may not wish to call those translations their own edition. If a translation passes a notability check of its own edition, then separate, if not, maybe then it comes off the other original language work. (Maybe leave that decision with the xxWS to determine???). What I am hoping to see is a tool that provides the maximum flexibity and credibility for the WSes, yet gives best visibility and authority at WD. Billinghurst On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:35 Nahum Wengrov wrote: Wait a minute. If a work esists in, say, ru.wikisource, And then someone translates that work and posts his translation under a free license in he.wikisource, I am not to link the hebrew version to its source in ru.ws on wikidata, But to create a seperate wikidata entry for it? This makes zero sense to me, and we never did it this way on he.wikisource. On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 2:25 PM, billinghurst wrote: Thought that the pasted discussion from WD is of interest and adds to our recent discussion on interwikis/interlanguage links. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikidata_discourages_interwiki_links Wikidata discourages interwiki links Looking at Zhuangzi (Q1074987) *Zhuanhgzi*, I see that this data item is only for the work as it exists in Chinese. The work as translated into English is a separate data item, and the French Wikisource translation is another data item. Effectively, this means that Wikidata discourages interwiki links to and between Wikisource projects, because they will never be part of the same data item. Further, anyone seeking a translation of a work into another language must first come to Wikidata and surf the links even to find out if translations of a work in another language exist on Wikisource; it is not possible to do that from any Wikisource directly. I thought the whole point of moving the links to Wikidata was to promote connections between projects, not to eliminate them. But perhaps I am wrong. --EncycloPetey ( talk ) 02:19, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @EncycloPetey : There are other ways to create interwiki by the help of Wikidata. See s:sv:Bibeln 1917 where I have made some tests with the Bible (Q1845) . The interwiki is created by the help of a Lua-module that follows edition(s) (P747) and edition or translation of (P629) . The big advantage is that it makes possible to create intewiki to more than one page in every project. For example, that page have 13 links to enwikisource. -- Innocent bystander (talk ) 05:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Innocent bystander :This is very interesting, what template (and Lua-module) do you use ? it should be done for all wikisources, that often have a lot of translated texts :) -- Hsarrazin (talk ) 09:43, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Hsarrazin : It's s:sv:Modul:Sandlåda/Innocent bystander who today is included in s:sv:Mall:Titel , a template that can be found in almost every page on svsource. Observe that the module is not secured against loops in the P747/P629-hierarcy. It also needs support by the interwiki-extra-class in s:sv:MediaWiki:Common.js , otherwise you cannot have more than one interwiki in each page. -- Innocent bystander (talk ) 10:11, 26 July 2015 (UTC)BTW, another thing the code does: It makes it possible to have interwiki to the Text-namespaces in als/bar/frr/pflwikis. -- Innocent bystander (talk ) 10:18, 26 July 2015 (UTC) ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org
Re: [Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) - edition or translation of
Splitting every book into two different items, *work* and *edition*, and using nsWork into wikisource projects to point the* work*, the issue is politely solved: any Work page into any wikisource could be interlinked by wikidata, since all point to the same abstract work wikidata item. On the contrary, *edition* pages can be interlinked by wikidata only when they are related to the same edition wikidata item, as happens i.e. in multilingual books, sharing the *same djvu file* into different projects. Alex 2015-07-28 9:59 GMT+02:00 billinghurst billinghurstw...@gmail.com: Nahum, I suppose the predominant part of my discussion was focusing on published translations, rather than WS-generated translations. 1) because many famous works have (famous) published translations, each with their own translator(s), date of publication, publisher, ... all worthy of noting and WD'ing. 2) you can only link to one work per wiki at WD, and as an example of an issue , I know of numbers of Chekov's works that enWS hosts where we have multiple published translations. So enWS needs a means for link generation for many to one (at ruWS), or for English language works, we may need a one to any. When it comes to WS-generated translations, I can see that we may or may not wish to call those translations their own edition. If a translation passes a notability check of its own edition, then separate, if not, maybe then it comes off the other original language work. (Maybe leave that decision with the xxWS to determine???). What I am hoping to see is a tool that provides the maximum flexibity and credibility for the WSes, yet gives best visibility and authority at WD. Billinghurst On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 12:35 Nahum Wengrov novar...@gmail.com wrote: Wait a minute. If a work esists in, say, ru.wikisource, And then someone translates that work and posts his translation under a free license in he.wikisource, I am not to link the hebrew version to its source in ru.ws on wikidata, But to create a seperate wikidata entry for it? This makes zero sense to me, and we never did it this way on he.wikisource. On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 2:25 PM, billinghurst billinghurstw...@gmail.com wrote: Thought that the pasted discussion from WD is of interest and adds to our recent discussion on interwikis/interlanguage links. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikidata_discourages_interwiki_links Wikidata discourages interwiki links Looking at Zhuangzi (Q1074987) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1074987 *Zhuanhgzi*, I see that this data item is only for the work as it exists in Chinese. The work as translated into English is a separate data item, and the French Wikisource translation is another data item. Effectively, this means that Wikidata discourages interwiki links to and between Wikisource projects, because they will never be part of the same data item. Further, anyone seeking a translation of a work into another language must first come to Wikidata and surf the links even to find out if translations of a work in another language exist on Wikisource; it is not possible to do that from any Wikisource directly. I thought the whole point of moving the links to Wikidata was to promote connections between projects, not to eliminate them. But perhaps I am wrong. --EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:EncycloPetey) 02:19, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey: There are other ways to create interwiki by the help of Wikidata. See s:sv:Bibeln 1917 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Bibeln_1917 where I have made some tests with the Bible (Q1845) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1845. The interwiki is created by the help of a Lua-module that follows edition(s) (P747) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P747 and edition or translation of (P629) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P629. The big advantage is that it makes possible to create intewiki to more than one page in every project. For example, that page have 13 links to enwikisource. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 05:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander:This is very interesting, what template (and Lua-module) do you use ? it should be done for all wikisources, that often have a lot of translated texts :) -- Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Hsarrazin) 09:43, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin: It's s:sv:Modul:Sandlåda/Innocent bystander https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Modul:Sandl%C3%A5da/Innocent_bystander who today is included in s:sv:Mall:Titel https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Mall:Titel, a template that can
Re: [Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) - edition or translation of
2015-07-28 4:35 GMT+02:00 Nahum Wengrov novar...@gmail.com: Wait a minute. If a work esists in, say, ru.wikisource, And then someone translates that work and posts his translation under a free license in he.wikisource, I am not to link the hebrew version to its source in ru.ws on wikidata, But to create a seperate wikidata entry for it? This makes zero sense to me, and we never did it this way on he.wikisource. It's more complex than that. Yes, you should make two entries on Wikidata (because there different data for this two works). But meanwhile, you can make a link between the two works on the Wikisources. Cdlt, ~nicolas ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
Re: [Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) - edition or translation of
Wait a minute. If a work esists in, say, ru.wikisource, And then someone translates that work and posts his translation under a free license in he.wikisource, I am not to link the hebrew version to its source in ru.ws on wikidata, But to create a seperate wikidata entry for it? This makes zero sense to me, and we never did it this way on he.wikisource. On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 2:25 PM, billinghurst billinghurstw...@gmail.com wrote: Thought that the pasted discussion from WD is of interest and adds to our recent discussion on interwikis/interlanguage links. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikidata_discourages_interwiki_links Wikidata discourages interwiki links Looking at Zhuangzi (Q1074987) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1074987 *Zhuanhgzi*, I see that this data item is only for the work as it exists in Chinese. The work as translated into English is a separate data item, and the French Wikisource translation is another data item. Effectively, this means that Wikidata discourages interwiki links to and between Wikisource projects, because they will never be part of the same data item. Further, anyone seeking a translation of a work into another language must first come to Wikidata and surf the links even to find out if translations of a work in another language exist on Wikisource; it is not possible to do that from any Wikisource directly. I thought the whole point of moving the links to Wikidata was to promote connections between projects, not to eliminate them. But perhaps I am wrong. --EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey ( talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:EncycloPetey) 02:19, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey: There are other ways to create interwiki by the help of Wikidata. See s:sv:Bibeln 1917 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Bibeln_1917 where I have made some tests with the Bible (Q1845) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1845. The interwiki is created by the help of a Lua-module that follows edition(s) (P747) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P747 and edition or translation of (P629) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P629. The big advantage is that it makes possible to create intewiki to more than one page in every project. For example, that page have 13 links to enwikisource. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 05:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander:This is very interesting, what template (and Lua-module) do you use ? it should be done for all wikisources, that often have a lot of translated texts :) -- Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Hsarrazin) 09:43, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin: It's s:sv:Modul:Sandlåda/Innocent bystander https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Modul:Sandl%C3%A5da/Innocent_bystander who today is included in s:sv:Mall:Titel https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Mall:Titel, a template that can be found in almost every page on svsource. Observe that the module is not secured against loops in the P747/P629-hierarcy. It also needs support by the interwiki-extra-class in s:sv:MediaWiki:Common.js https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:MediaWiki:Common.js, otherwise you cannot have more than one interwiki in each page. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 10:11, 26 July 2015 (UTC)BTW, another thing the code does: It makes it possible to have interwiki to the Text-namespaces in als/bar/frr/pflwikis. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 10:18, 26 July 2015 (UTC) ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
[Wikisource-l] more to edition(s) - edition or translation of
Thought that the pasted discussion from WD is of interest and adds to our recent discussion on interwikis/interlanguage links. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Project_chat#Wikidata_discourages_interwiki_links Wikidata discourages interwiki links Looking at Zhuangzi (Q1074987) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1074987 *Zhuanhgzi*, I see that this data item is only for the work as it exists in Chinese. The work as translated into English is a separate data item, and the French Wikisource translation is another data item. Effectively, this means that Wikidata discourages interwiki links to and between Wikisource projects, because they will never be part of the same data item. Further, anyone seeking a translation of a work into another language must first come to Wikidata and surf the links even to find out if translations of a work in another language exist on Wikisource; it is not possible to do that from any Wikisource directly. I thought the whole point of moving the links to Wikidata was to promote connections between projects, not to eliminate them. But perhaps I am wrong. --EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey ( talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:EncycloPetey) 02:19, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @EncycloPetey https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:EncycloPetey: There are other ways to create interwiki by the help of Wikidata. See s:sv:Bibeln 1917 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Bibeln_1917 where I have made some tests with the Bible (Q1845) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q1845. The interwiki is created by the help of a Lua-module that follows edition(s) (P747) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P747 and edition or translation of (P629) https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P629. The big advantage is that it makes possible to create intewiki to more than one page in every project. For example, that page have 13 links to enwikisource. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 05:49, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander:This is very interesting, what template (and Lua-module) do you use ? it should be done for all wikisources, that often have a lot of translated texts :) -- Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Hsarrazin) 09:43, 26 July 2015 (UTC) @Hsarrazin https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Hsarrazin: It's s:sv:Modul:Sandlåda/Innocent bystander https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Modul:Sandl%C3%A5da/Innocent_bystander who today is included in s:sv:Mall:Titel https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:Mall:Titel, a template that can be found in almost every page on svsource. Observe that the module is not secured against loops in the P747/P629-hierarcy. It also needs support by the interwiki-extra-class in s:sv:MediaWiki:Common.js https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/sv:MediaWiki:Common.js, otherwise you cannot have more than one interwiki in each page. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 10:11, 26 July 2015 (UTC)BTW, another thing the code does: It makes it possible to have interwiki to the Text-namespaces in als/bar/frr/pflwikis. -- Innocent bystander https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User:Innocent_bystander (talk https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/User_talk:Innocent_bystander) 10:18, 26 July 2015 (UTC) ___ Wikisource-l mailing list Wikisource-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikisource-l
