Re: [Wikitech-l] Multilingual maps: how to pick each feature language?

[Trey Jones]

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 8:31 PM, Yuri Astrakhan 
wrote:

> I know Mediawiki has language fallbacks, but they are very simple (e.g. for
> "ru", if "ru" is not there, try "en").
>

Russian is a major world language, so there isn't really anywhere else to
go. The fallbacks specified on the Localisation statistics page (
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Localisation_statistics ) are useful for
choosing which world language or supra-regional language to fall back to
when you don't have info in a given language.

It doesn't address a lot of your harder questions of what to do when world
languages collide, or when politics gets involved.

When viewing a map of China in English, should Chinese (local) name be
> shown together with the English name? Should it be shown for all types of
> features (city name, street name, name of the church, ...?)


As a maps user, I'd like both the local name and the name in my language on
any feature where that's possible (though not both if they are identical,
as with "Paris"). The name in my language helps me navigate the map, and
the local name helps me navigate the world with the map.

These are definitely some hard problems.
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[Wikitech-l] ArchCom Status & Meeting Minutes, WD6

[Daniel Kinzler]

Hi all!

Here are the minutes from this week's ArchCom meeting. You can also find the
minutes at .

See also the ArchCom status page at
 and the RFC board
.

Here are the minutes, for your convenience:

* ArchCom plans to take part in Scrum of Scrums in the future

* IRC discussion about database schema improvements next week, pending
confirmation. This is a follow-up to [[phab:T149534]].

* [[phab:T66214]]: Define an official thumb API: Gergö concerned about third
party install efficiency.

* [[phab:T122942]]: Support language variants in the REST API: Current
discussion is primarily about path prefix vs. Accept-Language header.

* [[phab:T155813]]: Decide on storage and delivery method for TemplateStyles
CSS: Lively discussion, pinged Parsing team.

* [[phab:T107561]]: MediaWiki support for Composer equivalent for JavaScript
packages was selected for the developer whishlist. There has been some
discussion in the last week, but more input is needed. One open topic is how
this relats to ResourceLoader.

* [[phab:T129842]]: Launch the Wikimedia "Code Review Special Interest Group"
has gained some tracktion. Quim is looking for participants!

* Schema migration for the oldimage table pending implementation: 
[[phab:T28741]]


-- 
Daniel Kinzler
Principal Platform Engineer

Wikimedia Deutschland
Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V.

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[Wikitech-l] Slight CI disruption overnight (solved)

[Antoine Musso]

Hello,

We had a short downtime of CI between roughly 3am and 9am UTC that
caused roughly 2/3 of triggered jobs to fail cloning.

The reason is we deployed additional zuul-merger instances (which takes
your patches, merge it on tip of branch and then expose the result to
jobs) but the git-daemon exposing the repositories was not started.

I respawned the git-daemon and it all works properly now.  I am doing a
recheck and CR+2 again all patches that got affected.

Reference: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T157785

cheers,

-- 
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: [Wikitech-l] Multilingual maps: how to pick each feature language?

[mathieu stumpf guntz]

Le 10/02/2017 à 02:31, Yuri Astrakhan a écrit :

TLDR: if browsing a map for French wiki, and a city only has a Russian and
Chinese name, which one should be shown? Should the city name have
different rules from a store or a street name? ...
Well, the third option might be to engage user to contribute with a 
localization. We might for that propose a specific guide, and advises 
from professional(/skilled) topographers would be a big plus here I guess.


Making automated transliteration suggestion from Russian to French is 
practicable, especially if "dummy" Cyrillic to roman script (plus 
possibly some nominative/adjectival suffix) is considered fine. Now if 
you want to go deeper and transpose the meaning of the toponym (which, 
surely most locales wouldn't know ever), it's challenge of an other scale.


Regarding transilteration from Chinese, expect if it comes with some 
romanization like pinyin, it seems to do any automatic suggestion (but 
call for contribution is always possible :).




I have been hacking to add unlimited multilingual support to Wikipedia
maps, and have language fallback question:  given a list of arbitrary
languages for each map feature, what is the best choice for a given
language?

I know Mediawiki has language fallbacks, but they are very simple (e.g. for
"ru", if "ru" is not there, try "en").

Some things to consider:
* Unlike Wikipedia, where readers go for "meaning", in maps we mostly need
"readability".
* Alphabets: Latin alphabet is probably the most universally understood,
followed by...? Per target language?
I have no idea, but if you have sources on this topic, I would be 
interesting in feedback.

* Politics: places like Crimea tend to have both Russian and Ukrainian
names defined, but if drawing map in Ukrainian, and some feature has
Russian and English names, but not Ukrainian, should it be shown with the
Russian or Ukrainian name?
* When viewing a map of China in English, should Chinese (local) name be
shown together with the English name? Should it be shown for all types of
features (city name, street name, name of the church, ...?)
Well, at least as an option, that might be interesting. More generally, 
you might like to have something like "Localized name (names used by 
natives)". The text between parentheses might indeed have several items. 
In the case of China, you probably at least would like to have the 
Ideogram and the pinyin as stated by the official government, plus – as 
far as I know – there are many languages used in China, so you'll 
probably have names which are more along local usage. Other cases which 
come to my mind are Amerindian traditional toponyms, and toponyms in 
France local languages (for exemple, /Strossburi/ and /Strossburch /for 
Strasbourg), as they are even on the municipality entrance.




Thanks!
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Multilingual maps: how to pick each feature language?

[Strainu]

2017-02-10 3:31 GMT+02:00 Yuri Astrakhan :
> TLDR: if browsing a map for French wiki, and a city only has a Russian and
> Chinese name, which one should be shown? Should the city name have
> different rules from a store or a street name? ...

Where exactly are those names stored? OSM, Commons, the local Wiki? If
in OSM, you should always have a fallback showing key:name, whatever
it is, instead of name:fr.

Strainu
>
> I have been hacking to add unlimited multilingual support to Wikipedia
> maps, and have language fallback question:  given a list of arbitrary
> languages for each map feature, what is the best choice for a given
> language?
>
> I know Mediawiki has language fallbacks, but they are very simple (e.g. for
> "ru", if "ru" is not there, try "en").
>
> Some things to consider:
> * Unlike Wikipedia, where readers go for "meaning", in maps we mostly need
> "readability".
> * Alphabets: Latin alphabet is probably the most universally understood,
> followed by...? Per target language?
> * Politics: places like Crimea tend to have both Russian and Ukrainian
> names defined, but if drawing map in Ukrainian, and some feature has
> Russian and English names, but not Ukrainian, should it be shown with the
> Russian or Ukrainian name?
> * When viewing a map of China in English, should Chinese (local) name be
> shown together with the English name? Should it be shown for all types of
> features (city name, street name, name of the church, ...?)
>
> Thanks!
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