[Wikitech-l] Improving the mediawiki.org frontpage: Part 3 (Layout)
Hi, this is a follow-up email to the 'Audiences' and 'Content' parts in https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2018-September/090886.html https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2018-December/091213.html Now that the content is defined, the next step for the next two weeks is to sort out the layout. An initial proposal can be found in https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_improvements_2018#Layout_and_layout_implementation Please take a look at the link above and let's discuss on https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_improvements_2018 Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input. andre -- Andre Klapper | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
Hello Fæ, While I understand and agree with your point, I must point out that this 4 days have been hectic on many people from multiple teams. The amount of work to cleanup one person's destructive half hour spree is staggering. We need better tooling for sure to combat this, something that while MediaWiki is already equipped with, some of the infrastructure tools are not (yet hopefully). It saddens me greatly to say that, but we might have to take some steps in the opposite direction, for a while at least, until we are in shape to combat this more effectively. Regards, On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:40 PM Fæ wrote: > > Thanks to everyone who helped sort this out. > > In some ways, the vandalism neatly demonstrates how Wikimedia projects > rely on trust. When these things happen, it is a nice reminder that > our open values mean that we should take a light approach to security > whenever the potential exposure is always going to be recoverable. > Resilience rather than impenetrable, for our community at least, is a > healthy way to prioritize. The occasional predictable idiot is no > reason to change that approach. > > Cheers, > Fae > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 13:28, Alexandros Kosiaris > wrote: > > > > Gerrit is back up. Almost all of the vandalism has been cleaned up, > > some minor stuff remains, we will clean that up as well. > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 1:42 PM planetenxin wrote: > > > > > > Am 19.03.2019 um 12:21 schrieb Andre Klapper: > > > > planetenxin: Sorry for my previous message, was not meant to be rude. > > > > > > no worries. Hope, that Gerrit is back alive soon. :-) > > > > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > -- > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Alexandros Kosiaris Senior Site Reliability Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Need Help To Spell4Wiki - Wiktionary Audio App
Hi Gergo Tisza,
Thanks for your response. I realized my mistake.
Sorry for the late response from my side.
Now, both csrf token and upload API are changed to commons API. Then the
above issue resolved.
*Below I shared some needs and clarification *
1. It is possible to support .wav or .mp3 format files to in Wiktionary
words pronunciation audio format. currently, support .ogg only. Because I
think native Android does not support .ogg for record audio. If need to
.ogg we need to use NDK.
2. Successfully uploaded audio files to commons. But some times not linked
to Wiktionary word.
case 1: No issues - Worked
word - https://ta.wiktionary.org/wiki/அக்குரன்
audio - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ta-அக்குரன்.ogg
case 2: Audio have .ogg format. But not linked in particular word.
word - https://ta.wiktionary.org/wiki/தடிக்காரன்
audio - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ta-தடிக்காரன்.ogg
Why this issue comes then what I do?
3. When I uploading format as .wav to commons then auto-generated .ogg and
.mp3 formats. This .ogg file is possible to link that work.
Then .ogg audio file name contains existing file format name too.
Like :
Uploaded - Ta-மதிமுக.wav
Auto-generated by commons - Ta-மதிமுக.wav.ogg and Ta-மதிமுக.wav.mp3
Note: Above .ogg and .mp3 file name contains existing(uploaded) file format
.wav too.
Ex :
uploaded - https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ta-மதிமுக.wav
ogg - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/4/4b/Ta-
மதிமுக.wav/Ta-மதிமுக.wav.ogg
mp3 - https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/transcoded/4/4b/Ta-
மதிமுக.wav/Ta-மதிமுக.wav.mp3
4. Some times I got a message "Invalid CSRF". I think this comes may be
session time out or wrong csrf token. But I am saving first csrf token
after login. Then after every edit request use same csrf token no issues on
within 3 to 5mins. after that comes that "Invalid CSRF". How can solve
this?
5. When I uploading audio files to commons comes this message "Warning" -
"exists-normalized". It may come file name already exists I think.
In commons, check contains an upload file name.
I try to upload word like "en-abcd.ogg" Commons through error mentioned
above.
But "en-abcd.ogg" don't have in commons But have "en-ab.ogg" or
"en-abcdef.ogg".
How to resolve those issues?
Thanks
Manimaran.K
On Thu, Jan 10, 2019, 12:26 AM Gergo Tisza wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2019 at 10:41 AM Manimaran_K
> wrote:
>
> >- When Uploading audio I got an error message* ->
> > *{“error”:{“code”:”permissiondenied”,”info”:”The
> >action you have requested is limited to users in one of the groups:
> >[[Wikipedia:Autoconfirmed users|Autoconfirmed users]],
> >[[Wikipedia:Administrators|Administrators]], [[Wikipedia:User access
> >levels#Confirmed|Confirmed users]].”,”*”:”See
> >https://en.wikipedia.org/w/api.phpfor API usage. Subscribe to the
> >mediawiki-api-announce mailing list at <
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/mediawiki-api-announce;
> >for notice of API deprecations and breaking
> > changes.”},”servedby”:”mw1226″}
> >
>
> The error message should be self-explanatory. See the linked
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:User_access_levels#Autoconfirmed_users
> page for more details.
> (You can send an errorformat=html parameter to the API to HTML error
> messages, in case you are not familiar with wikitext.)
>
> Given that you were talking about uploading to Commons, seems like you are
> sending your requests to the wrong wiki. (Commons does not require users to
> be autoconfirmed.)
> ___
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
___
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Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:49 PM John Erling Blad wrote: > > > The devs is not the primary user group, and they never will be. An > editor is a primary user, and (s)he has no idea where the letters > travels or how they are stored. A reader is a primary user, and > likewise (s)he has no idea how the letters emerge on the screen. The devs are just one of several in a stakeholder group, and focusing > solely on whatever ickyness they feel is like building a house by > starting calling the plumber. > Nobody claimed they were. In fact, everyone said the opposite. I think you're just misunderstanding the definitions of the words being used(?) > > > Sales dept usually dont advocate for bug fixing as that doesnt sell > > products, new features do, so i dont know why you are bringing them up. > > They also dont usually deal with technical debt in the same way somebody > > who has never been to your house cant give you effective advice on how to > > clean it. > > A sales dep is in contact with the customer, which is a primary user > of the product. If you don't like using the sales department, then say > you have a support desk that don't report bugs. Without anyone > reporting the bugs the product is dead. > > Actually this is the decade old fight over "who owns the product". The > only solution is to create a real stakeholder group. > > > That said, fundamentally you want user priorities (or at least *your* > > priorities. Its unclear if your priorities reflect the user base at > large) > > to be taken into consideration when deciding developer priorities? Well > > step 1 is to define what you want. The wmf obviously tries to figure out > > what is important to users, and its pretty obvious in your view they are > > failing. Saying people are working on the wrong thing without saying what > > they should work on instead is a self-fulfiling prophecy. > > Not going to answer this, it is an implicit blame game > Well lets make it explicit - If you want change, but refuse to say what change (whether that be structural or whether that be specific bugs you want fixed) then it is 100% your fault that the change doesn't happen. Complaining people/orgs won't change but not saying how you want people to change is just a waste of everyone's time. Developers are people not telepaths. -- Brian ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
All software development costs someone something. Software does not change without someone paying something for it (even if that is just their own time, time has value). To that end, technical debt, is like any other software change. There is no difference between solving technical debt, fixing bugs, or creating new features. All of these changes must have a "business value" associated with them. If you cannot justify the value of the change, why are you doing it? If you can, then you know what it is worth. A lot of technical debt has a business case that it makes future software development slower. Or to borrow some of the examples from this thread, it takes longer to find something in your home, if your home is not organized. Likewise, it takes longer to fix bugs and develop new features if the code is not organized and provides a pleasant developer experience. It is up to individual developers to surface the issues that have the most value to the business (from a technical or user perspective) and it is up to the product owners to make a determination of what truly has the most value to the business. In other words, what gets Wikimedia the greatest bang for the buck? I am thankful that it is not up to me to answer that question. :) On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 11:49 AM John Erling Blad wrote: > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 12:53 PM bawolff wrote: > > > > Technical debt is by definition "ickyness felt by devs". It is a thing > that > > can be worked on. It is not the only thing to be worked on, nor should it > > be, but it is one aspect of the system to be worked on. If its ignored it > > makes it really hard to fix bugs because then devs wont understand how > the > > software works. If tech debt is worked on at the expense of everything > > else, that is bad too (like cleaning your house for a week straight > without > > stopping to eat-bad outcomes) By definition it is not new features nor is > > it ickyness felt by users. It might help with bugs felt by users as often > > they are the result of devs misunderstanding what is going on, but that > is > > a consequence not the thing itself. > > The devs is not the primary user group, and they never will be. An > editor is a primary user, and (s)he has no idea where the letters > travels or how they are stored. A reader is a primary user, and > likewise (s)he has no idea how the letters emerge on the screen. > > The devs are just one of several in a stakeholder group, and focusing > solely on whatever ickyness they feel is like building a house by > starting calling the plumber. > > > Sales dept usually dont advocate for bug fixing as that doesnt sell > > products, new features do, so i dont know why you are bringing them up. > > They also dont usually deal with technical debt in the same way somebody > > who has never been to your house cant give you effective advice on how to > > clean it. > > A sales dep is in contact with the customer, which is a primary user > of the product. If you don't like using the sales department, then say > you have a support desk that don't report bugs. Without anyone > reporting the bugs the product is dead. > > Actually this is the decade old fight over "who owns the product". The > only solution is to create a real stakeholder group. > > > That said, fundamentally you want user priorities (or at least *your* > > priorities. Its unclear if your priorities reflect the user base at > large) > > to be taken into consideration when deciding developer priorities? Well > > step 1 is to define what you want. The wmf obviously tries to figure out > > what is important to users, and its pretty obvious in your view they are > > failing. Saying people are working on the wrong thing without saying what > > they should work on instead is a self-fulfiling prophecy. > > Not going to answer this, it is an implicit blame game > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 3:01 PM Derk-Jan Hartman < d.j.hartman+wmf...@gmail.com> wrote: > Last year has seen a lot of focus on Technical Debt. WMF also has a core > platform team now, which finally allows a more sustainable chipping away at > some of the technical debt. Yeah. Having tech debt is never great but what gets people concerned is when it just grows and grows, and management dismisses concerns because it is always more important to have the next feature out quickly. We used to have a bit of that problem, but IMO there have been lots of positive changes in the last two years or so, and there is now a credible organization-wide effort now to get debt under control (mainly looking at the Platform Evolution program here). Having the core platform team also helped a lot, and in my impression some other teams that had in the past focused on fast feature iteration have also been given more space to do things right. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 12:53 PM bawolff wrote: > > Technical debt is by definition "ickyness felt by devs". It is a thing that > can be worked on. It is not the only thing to be worked on, nor should it > be, but it is one aspect of the system to be worked on. If its ignored it > makes it really hard to fix bugs because then devs wont understand how the > software works. If tech debt is worked on at the expense of everything > else, that is bad too (like cleaning your house for a week straight without > stopping to eat-bad outcomes) By definition it is not new features nor is > it ickyness felt by users. It might help with bugs felt by users as often > they are the result of devs misunderstanding what is going on, but that is > a consequence not the thing itself. The devs is not the primary user group, and they never will be. An editor is a primary user, and (s)he has no idea where the letters travels or how they are stored. A reader is a primary user, and likewise (s)he has no idea how the letters emerge on the screen. The devs are just one of several in a stakeholder group, and focusing solely on whatever ickyness they feel is like building a house by starting calling the plumber. > Sales dept usually dont advocate for bug fixing as that doesnt sell > products, new features do, so i dont know why you are bringing them up. > They also dont usually deal with technical debt in the same way somebody > who has never been to your house cant give you effective advice on how to > clean it. A sales dep is in contact with the customer, which is a primary user of the product. If you don't like using the sales department, then say you have a support desk that don't report bugs. Without anyone reporting the bugs the product is dead. Actually this is the decade old fight over "who owns the product". The only solution is to create a real stakeholder group. > That said, fundamentally you want user priorities (or at least *your* > priorities. Its unclear if your priorities reflect the user base at large) > to be taken into consideration when deciding developer priorities? Well > step 1 is to define what you want. The wmf obviously tries to figure out > what is important to users, and its pretty obvious in your view they are > failing. Saying people are working on the wrong thing without saying what > they should work on instead is a self-fulfiling prophecy. Not going to answer this, it is an implicit blame game ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit Vandalism
Hi David, Me too, but I think quoting from the "Gerrit outage" thread on this mailing list by Alexandros Kosiaris "Gerrit is back up. Almost all of the vandalism has been cleaned up, some minor stuff remains, we will clean that up as well." Seems that has been well handled. So you don't need to fix them as they're already fix (from my interpretation of that email and from what I see on my own patches) I think. Thanks! *--* *https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:X-Savitar>>* On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:46 PM David Barratt wrote: > Several of my patches were vandalized, should I fix them or leave them > alone? > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 2:52 AM Alaa Sarhan > wrote: > > > Okay > > > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 07:48, Amir Sarabadani > wrote: > > > > > It's a security ticket. Only people who are added explicitly can see > it. > > > > > > Best > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:47 AM Alaa Sarhan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Getting Access Denied on that ticket (user alaa_wmde). know why? > > > > > > > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 06:54, Eran Rosenthal > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I couldn't catch anyone in the IRC so this is also tracked in: > > > > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218636 > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:40 AM Jay prakash < > 0freerunn...@gmail.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi please stop User Mill on Gerrit. He/She vandalised my and my > > > Tech's > > > > > > patches. > > > > > > > > > > > > User:Jayprakash12345 > > > > > > ___ > > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > ___ > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Alaa Sarhan > > > > Full Stack Developer > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > > > > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de > > > > > > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in > > > > the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our > > > > vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de > > > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. > > > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts > > > > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig > > > > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, > > > > Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > > > > ___ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Amir > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Alaa Sarhan > > Full Stack Developer > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de > > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in > > the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our > > vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts > > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig > > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, > > Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit Vandalism
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:46 AM David Barratt wrote: > Several of my patches were vandalized, should I fix them or leave them > alone? > They should have been fixed. Are they still broken now? Please send a link to them. -- Daniel Zahn Operations Engineer ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit Vandalism
Several of my patches were vandalized, should I fix them or leave them alone? On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 2:52 AM Alaa Sarhan wrote: > Okay > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 07:48, Amir Sarabadani wrote: > > > It's a security ticket. Only people who are added explicitly can see it. > > > > Best > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:47 AM Alaa Sarhan > > wrote: > > > > > Getting Access Denied on that ticket (user alaa_wmde). know why? > > > > > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 06:54, Eran Rosenthal > > wrote: > > > > > > > I couldn't catch anyone in the IRC so this is also tracked in: > > > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218636 > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:40 AM Jay prakash <0freerunn...@gmail.com> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi please stop User Mill on Gerrit. He/She vandalised my and my > > Tech's > > > > > patches. > > > > > > > > > > User:Jayprakash12345 > > > > > ___ > > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > ___ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Alaa Sarhan > > > Full Stack Developer > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > > > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de > > > > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in > > > the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our > > > vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. > > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts > > > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig > > > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, > > > Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > -- > > Amir > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > -- > > Alaa Sarhan > Full Stack Developer > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in > the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our > vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, > Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
Thanks to everyone who helped sort this out. In some ways, the vandalism neatly demonstrates how Wikimedia projects rely on trust. When these things happen, it is a nice reminder that our open values mean that we should take a light approach to security whenever the potential exposure is always going to be recoverable. Resilience rather than impenetrable, for our community at least, is a healthy way to prioritize. The occasional predictable idiot is no reason to change that approach. Cheers, Fae On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 13:28, Alexandros Kosiaris wrote: > > Gerrit is back up. Almost all of the vandalism has been cleaned up, > some minor stuff remains, we will clean that up as well. > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 1:42 PM planetenxin wrote: > > > > Am 19.03.2019 um 12:21 schrieb Andre Klapper: > > > planetenxin: Sorry for my previous message, was not meant to be rude. > > > > no worries. Hope, that Gerrit is back alive soon. :-) > > > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
Gerrit is back up. Almost all of the vandalism has been cleaned up, some minor stuff remains, we will clean that up as well. On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 1:42 PM planetenxin wrote: > > Am 19.03.2019 um 12:21 schrieb Andre Klapper: > > planetenxin: Sorry for my previous message, was not meant to be rude. > > no worries. Hope, that Gerrit is back alive soon. :-) > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Alexandros Kosiaris Senior Site Reliability Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
On Monday, March 18, 2019, John Erling Blad wrote: > On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:52 PM bawolff wrote: > > > > First of all, I want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with everything > tgr > > wrote. > > > > Regarding Pine's question on technical debt. > > > > Technical debt is basically a fancy way of saying something is "icky". It > > is an inherently subjective notion, and at least for me, how important > > technical debt is depends a lot on how much my subjective sensibilities > on > > what is icky matches whoever is talking about technical debt. > > > > So yes, I think everyone agrees icky stuff is bad, but sometimes > different > > people have different ideas on what is icky and how much ickiness the > icky > > things contain. Furthermore there is a trap one can fall into of only > > fixing icky stuff, even if its only slightly icky, which is bad as then > you > > don't actually accomplish anything else. As with everything else in life, > > moderation is the best policy (imo). > > > > -- > > Brian > > To set degree of ickyness you need a stakeholdergroup, which is often > just the sales department. When you neither have a stakeholder group > or sales department you tend to end up with ickyness set by the devs, > and then features win over bugs. Its just the way things are. > > I believe the ickyness felt by the editors must be more visible to the > devs, and the actual impact the devs do on bugs to lower the ickyness > must be more visible to the editors. > Technical debt is by definition "ickyness felt by devs". It is a thing that can be worked on. It is not the only thing to be worked on, nor should it be, but it is one aspect of the system to be worked on. If its ignored it makes it really hard to fix bugs because then devs wont understand how the software works. If tech debt is worked on at the expense of everything else, that is bad too (like cleaning your house for a week straight without stopping to eat-bad outcomes) By definition it is not new features nor is it ickyness felt by users. It might help with bugs felt by users as often they are the result of devs misunderstanding what is going on, but that is a consequence not the thing itself. Sales dept usually dont advocate for bug fixing as that doesnt sell products, new features do, so i dont know why you are bringing them up. They also dont usually deal with technical debt in the same way somebody who has never been to your house cant give you effective advice on how to clean it. That said, fundamentally you want user priorities (or at least *your* priorities. Its unclear if your priorities reflect the user base at large) to be taken into consideration when deciding developer priorities? Well step 1 is to define what you want. The wmf obviously tries to figure out what is important to users, and its pretty obvious in your view they are failing. Saying people are working on the wrong thing without saying what they should work on instead is a self-fulfiling prophecy. -- Brian ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
Am 19.03.2019 um 12:21 schrieb Andre Klapper: > planetenxin: Sorry for my previous message, was not meant to be rude. no worries. Hope, that Gerrit is back alive soon. :-) ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
On Tue, 2019-03-19 at 10:49 +, Lewis Cawte via Wikitech-l wrote: > Not everyone is aware that the process of cleaning up the > vandalism/fixing Gerrit includes Gerrit being down temporarily. Right. Should have spent more time to rephrase and explicitly say so. Thanks for pointing that out. planetenxin: Sorry for my previous message, was not meant to be rude. andre -- Andre Klapper | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 10:50, Lewis Cawte via Wikitech-l < wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote: > Not everyone is aware that the process of cleaning up the vandalism/fixing > Gerrit includes Gerrit being down temporarily. > > Do I need to include a reminder link to WP:AGF / WP:DICK? > That would not be helpful. By assuming that the other person simply missed the other thread on this mailing list, and by pointing the person to said thread, Andre *is* assuming good faith. Dan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
Not everyone is aware that the process of cleaning up the vandalism/fixing Gerrit includes Gerrit being down temporarily. Do I need to include a reminder link to WP:AGF / WP:DICK? -- Lewis Cawte On Tue, 19 Mar 2019, 10:27 Andre Klapper, wrote: > On Tue, 2019-03-19 at 10:59 +0100, planetenxin wrote: > > Gerrit seems to be offline again. > > Please read the other latest thread on this very mailing list. > > andre > -- > Andre Klapper | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate > https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ > > > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
On Tue, 2019-03-19 at 10:59 +0100, planetenxin wrote: > Gerrit seems to be offline again. Please read the other latest thread on this very mailing list. andre -- Andre Klapper | Bugwrangler / Developer Advocate https://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/ ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit outage
Gerrit seems to be offline again. > On 16 March 2019, Wikimedia Foundation staff observed suspicious activity > associated with Gerrit and as a precautionary step has taken Gerrit offline > pending investigation. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit Vandalism
Okay On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 07:48, Amir Sarabadani wrote: > It's a security ticket. Only people who are added explicitly can see it. > > Best > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:47 AM Alaa Sarhan > wrote: > > > Getting Access Denied on that ticket (user alaa_wmde). know why? > > > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 06:54, Eran Rosenthal > wrote: > > > > > I couldn't catch anyone in the IRC so this is also tracked in: > > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218636 > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:40 AM Jay prakash <0freerunn...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi please stop User Mill on Gerrit. He/She vandalised my and my > Tech's > > > > patches. > > > > > > > > User:Jayprakash12345 > > > > ___ > > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Alaa Sarhan > > Full Stack Developer > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de > > > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in > > the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our > > vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. > > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts > > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig > > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, > > Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > -- > Amir > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Alaa Sarhan Full Stack Developer Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit Vandalism
It's a security ticket. Only people who are added explicitly can see it. Best On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:47 AM Alaa Sarhan wrote: > Getting Access Denied on that ticket (user alaa_wmde). know why? > > On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 06:54, Eran Rosenthal wrote: > > > I couldn't catch anyone in the IRC so this is also tracked in: > > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218636 > > > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:40 AM Jay prakash <0freerunn...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi please stop User Mill on Gerrit. He/She vandalised my and my Tech's > > > patches. > > > > > > User:Jayprakash12345 > > > ___ > > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > > > -- > > Alaa Sarhan > Full Stack Developer > > Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin > Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de > > Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in > the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our > vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de > > Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. > V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts > Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig > anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, > Steuernummer 27/029/42207. > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Amir ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit Vandalism
Getting Access Denied on that ticket (user alaa_wmde). know why? On Tue, 19 Mar 2019 at 06:54, Eran Rosenthal wrote: > I couldn't catch anyone in the IRC so this is also tracked in: > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218636 > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:40 AM Jay prakash <0freerunn...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi please stop User Mill on Gerrit. He/She vandalised my and my Tech's > > patches. > > > > User:Jayprakash12345 > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Alaa Sarhan Full Stack Developer Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin Phone: +49 (0)30 219 158 26-0https://wikimedia.de Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge. Help us to achieve our vision!https://spenden.wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland – Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Gerrit Vandalism
Just a quick note: incident response is active and ongoing; this is being worked on. -- brion On Mon, Mar 18, 2019, 10:54 PM Eran Rosenthal wrote: > I couldn't catch anyone in the IRC so this is also tracked in: > https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T218636 > > On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 7:40 AM Jay prakash <0freerunn...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Hi please stop User Mill on Gerrit. He/She vandalised my and my Tech's > > patches. > > > > User:Jayprakash12345 > > ___ > > Wikitech-l mailing list > > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:52 PM bawolff wrote: > > First of all, I want to say that I wholeheartedly agree with everything tgr > wrote. > > Regarding Pine's question on technical debt. > > Technical debt is basically a fancy way of saying something is "icky". It > is an inherently subjective notion, and at least for me, how important > technical debt is depends a lot on how much my subjective sensibilities on > what is icky matches whoever is talking about technical debt. > > So yes, I think everyone agrees icky stuff is bad, but sometimes different > people have different ideas on what is icky and how much ickiness the icky > things contain. Furthermore there is a trap one can fall into of only > fixing icky stuff, even if its only slightly icky, which is bad as then you > don't actually accomplish anything else. As with everything else in life, > moderation is the best policy (imo). > > -- > Brian To set degree of ickyness you need a stakeholdergroup, which is often just the sales department. When you neither have a stakeholder group or sales department you tend to end up with ickyness set by the devs, and then features win over bugs. Its just the way things are. I believe the ickyness felt by the editors must be more visible to the devs, and the actual impact the devs do on bugs to lower the ickyness must be more visible to the editors. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 2:38 PM C. Scott Ananian wrote: > > A secondary issue is that too much wiki dev is done by WMF/WMFDE employees > (IMO); I don't think the current percentages lead to an overall healthy > open source community. But (again in my view) the first step to nurturing > and growing our non-employee contributors is to make sure their patches are > timely reviewed. > --scott I find this argument strange, as it imply there is some kind of magical difference between contributions from an employee and a community member. There are no such difference. Both the employee and the community member should take responsibility for the code base, but that does not imply they should take the same actions on that code base. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Question to WMF: Backlog on bugs
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 8:23 AM Strainu wrote: > > > A large backlog by itself is not alarming. A growing one for > > components deployed to WMF sites is. It indicates insufficient > > attention is given to ongoing maintenance of projects after they are > > no longer "actively developed", which in turn creates resentment with > > the reporters. > > > On Sun, Mar 17, 2019 at 10:22 PM Gergo Tisza wrote: > > It really doesn't. The backlog is the contact surface between stuff that > exists and stuff that doesn't; all the things we don't have but which seem > realistically within reach. As functionality expands, that surface expands > too. It is a normal process. > This isn't quite right, it only hold in some kind of simplified and idealized environment. There are several axis, not only what exist. For example existing and non-existing features might be on the same axis, while it is hard to say that functional vs non-functional code is on the same axis. If you say these two are on the same axis, "stuff that exists", then you end up arguing fixing bugs would be a problem as it expands the feature space, thus will increase the total space and then increase the technical debt. This will imply that introducing a critical bug will solve the technical debt, as the contact space will collapse. Fairly an acceptable solution! ;D ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
