Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
And here we go again: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)oldid=481885933#The_banner On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 09:37, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
H == Helder helder.w...@gmail.com writes: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. And also further down the page, we aim for link 32, and as our finger presses down, link 33 or 34 is slid under our mouse instead! ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
2011/11/21 Russell Nelson russnel...@gmail.com: Perhaps we should keep the banner space there during the time of the fundraiser, and if the person requests to not see Jimmy, then show them Brandon. And if Brandon makes them unhappy (as if!), they could switch to seeing pretty panorama photos. I'll contribute this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russnelson/5843684817/ Hell no! When I say I don't wanna see any fundraiser banners, it means i don't wanna see ANY banners related to the fundraiser, no mater how pretty they look. Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list. You should respect your no ads policy even for your own ads. :) Strainu ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 9:27 PM, Strainu strain...@gmail.com wrote: Hell no! When I say I don't wanna see any fundraiser banners, it means i don't wanna see ANY banners related to the fundraiser, no mater how pretty they look. Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list. You should respect your no ads policy even for your own ads. :) I think Russell forgot his sarcasm tags in the email :p ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
S == Strainu strain...@gmail.com writes: S Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list. No wonder Wikipedia ads are so irritating (besides making babies cry), they are the only ads on the net one still sees these days, http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+banner+fundraiser+adblockplus ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
- Original Message - From: jida...@jidanni.org S == Strainu strain...@gmail.com writes: S Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list. No wonder Wikipedia ads are so irritating (besides making babies cry), they are the only ads on the net one still sees these days, http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+banner+fundraiser+adblockplus Wow the sense of (unwarranted) entitlement among most of those comments complaining about this policy is just... breathtaking. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On Nov 21, 2011 1:48 PM, jida...@jidanni.org wrote: S == Strainu strain...@gmail.com writes: S Otherwise they will just go on the AdBlockPlus list. No wonder Wikipedia ads are so irritating (besides making babies cry), they are the only ads on the net one still sees these days, http://www.google.com/search?q=wikipedia+banner+fundraiser+adblockplus This one's for Ariel: http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-founder-jimmy-wales/#comment-87364 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 11:44 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.org wrote: Maybe we could have a script tag in the head that modifies the relevant stylesheet rules based on cookies present. D'oh, of course that's a better solution. And I'm supposed to be a JavaScript expert *hangs head in shame*. This would be fairly doable but would require that determining the banner size (and whether there is a banner at all) is as lightweight as possible. Ideally this would be done without AJAX (because all banner sizes are equal, or should be) and would only rely on a cookie to determine whether banners are hidden or not. Roan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 1:53 PM, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote: Wow the sense of (unwarranted) entitlement among most of those comments complaining about this policy is just... breathtaking. Ads?? On MY websites?!? -Chad ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
JB == Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com writes: JB http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-founder-jimmy-wales/#comment-87364 Naw, http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-founder-jimmy-wales/#comment-87359 + [8861] Rachel says: 27 Nov 2010 at 11:04 am Doing this doesn't work, and never did. Creepy Jimmy, with his come to my van, child eyes invariably comes back, like a particularly nasty genital infection, within 2 days at most. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
- Original Message - From: jida...@jidanni.org Doing this doesn't work, and never did. Creepy Jimmy, with his come to my van, child eyes invariably comes back, like a particularly nasty genital infection, within 2 days at most. Ok, JL? That is *right* around the bend to making you look worse than you think he is, projecting, and probably actionable for libel in the bargain. Please stop now. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
Doing this doesn't work, and never did. Creepy Jimmy, with his come to my van, child eyes invariably comes back, like a particularly nasty genital infection, within 2 days at most. Look, there have been numerous ways discussed to remove the banners and never see them ever again. Please use those methods, and stop posting stuff like this to the lists. You are being a troll. - Ryan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 3:33 PM, jida...@jidanni.org wrote: JB == Jeremy Baron jer...@tuxmachine.com writes: JB http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-founder-jimmy-wales/#comment-87364 Naw, http://www.jwz.org/blog/2010/11/please-read-a-personal-appeal-to-wikipedia-founder-jimmy-wales/#comment-87359 + [8861] Rachel says: 27 Nov 2010 at 11:04 am Doing this doesn't work, and never did. Creepy Jimmy, with his come to my van, child eyes invariably comes back, like a particularly nasty genital infection, within 2 days at most. Indeed, Rachel is much nastier. She even got a personal reply from Neal. Some people are beyond helping... ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
Getting back on track here... There's already a bug open for this issue in bugzilla ( https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234). Relative to the current priorities for fundraiser engineering, this is pretty low. But if someone outside of the team wanted to take a stab at resolving this, we could potentially roll out a fix much quicker :) Also, Kaldari started a page on wikitech for brainstorming ways to cope with the issue ( http://wikitech.wikimedia.org/view/CentralNotice/Optimizing_banner_loading). The ideas currently on that list focus more on speeding up the actual loading of the banner rather than totally getting read of the page jumping problem. If you have other thoughts on the matter, feel free to add them to the list. Tim/Roan, I'm going ahead and adding your suggestions to the list. Thanks! Arthur On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On 20/11/11 22:42, Roan Kattouw wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). If you hard code a space into the cached HTML, there will be no way to turn off the banner via cookies. You'd have the opposite problem, a blank space would appear and then disappear after a few seconds. Maybe we could have a script tag in the head that modifies the relevant stylesheet rules based on cookies present. -- Tim Starling ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Arthur Richards Software Engineer Fundraising/Features/Offline/Mobile [[User:Awjrichards]] IRC: awjr +1-415-839-6885 x6687 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
This has already been hashed out technically, and is doable. The only issue is getting people to standardize on a banner size, which I've tried for the past few months to get people to agree on, but with no luck. In order for this to work we need a benevolent dictator (Zach?, Erik?) to state that all banners (including chapter banners) need to be a certain height during the fundraiser. As it's not a high priority issue currently, I'm not sure if there's any likelihood of that actually happening. If people want to discuss further, the bug is at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234 Ryan Kaldari On 11/20/11 3:42 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). Roan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
FWIW, we have pretty much standardized on a banner height of 172px and, to my knowledge, have no plans to modify that. If we did, it would get smaller and not larger. On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote: This has already been hashed out technically, and is doable. The only issue is getting people to standardize on a banner size, which I've tried for the past few months to get people to agree on, but with no luck. In order for this to work we need a benevolent dictator (Zach?, Erik?) to state that all banners (including chapter banners) need to be a certain height during the fundraiser. As it's not a high priority issue currently, I'm not sure if there's any likelihood of that actually happening. If people want to discuss further, the bug is at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234 Ryan Kaldari On 11/20/11 3:42 AM, Roan Kattouw wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). Roan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On 22 November 2011 00:14, Peter Gehres li...@pgehres.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.orgwrote: This has already been hashed out technically, and is doable. The only issue is getting people to standardize on a banner size, which I've tried for the past few months to get people to agree on, but with no luck. In order for this to work we need a benevolent dictator (Zach?, Erik?) to state that all banners (including chapter banners) need to be a certain height during the fundraiser. As it's not a high priority issue currently, I'm not sure if there's any likelihood of that actually happening. If people want to discuss further, the bug is at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234 FWIW, we have pretty much standardized on a banner height of 172px and, to my knowledge, have no plans to modify that. If we did, it would get smaller and not larger. That doesn't appear to square with Ryan's statement. Is the banner height really 172px, i.e. will a 172px preloaded space really solve the problem? - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 4:18 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 November 2011 00:14, Peter Gehres li...@pgehres.com wrote: On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 2:42 PM, Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org wrote: This has already been hashed out technically, and is doable. The only issue is getting people to standardize on a banner size, which I've tried for the past few months to get people to agree on, but with no luck. In order for this to work we need a benevolent dictator (Zach?, Erik?) to state that all banners (including chapter banners) need to be a certain height during the fundraiser. As it's not a high priority issue currently, I'm not sure if there's any likelihood of that actually happening. If people want to discuss further, the bug is at: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26234 FWIW, we have pretty much standardized on a banner height of 172px and, to my knowledge, have no plans to modify that. If we did, it would get smaller and not larger. That doesn't appear to square with Ryan's statement. Is the banner height really 172px, i.e. will a 172px preloaded space really solve the problem? - d. I am in a better position to comment about banner size than Kaldari. It's not necessarily a good solution as we plan to bring the banners down for logged in users fairly soon. I assume that they would rather not have the jump in the reverse direction :-) I'm sure that we could have two separate pre-loaded empty divs (one for anon, and one for logged in) but that still does not account for project, language, and country variations. Additionally, it has yet to be determined whether or not reserving the space has an effect on click rate. I could see reasons why it could effect it both positively and negatively. - Peter ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). Roan ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
On 20/11/11 22:42, Roan Kattouw wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). If you hard code a space into the cached HTML, there will be no way to turn off the banner via cookies. You'd have the opposite problem, a blank space would appear and then disappear after a few seconds. Maybe we could have a script tag in the head that modifies the relevant stylesheet rules based on cookies present. -- Tim Starling ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Please preload a space in the page for the banner
Perhaps we should keep the banner space there during the time of the fundraiser, and if the person requests to not see Jimmy, then show them Brandon. And if Brandon makes them unhappy (as if!), they could switch to seeing pretty panorama photos. I'll contribute this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/russnelson/5843684817/ On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 5:44 PM, Tim Starling tstarl...@wikimedia.orgwrote: On 20/11/11 22:42, Roan Kattouw wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gerard dger...@gmail.com wrote: A Wikipedia page loads. The last thing to load is the banner. This pushes the page content down. If you've clicked on a link near the top of the page, the banner grabs it instead. This happened last year and it was reported then (and it was incredibly annoying then too). It also fouls up stats on banner effectiveness, as banners are clicked on without intention to do so. Please load the page with a space for the banner to avoid this effect. CC fr-tech. This should be doable provided that all banners have the same dimensions. Which banner will be selected (if one is selected at all) is determined by JS and is not known by PHP (and can't be known by PHP due to Squid caching). If you hard code a space into the cached HTML, there will be no way to turn off the banner via cookies. You'd have the opposite problem, a blank space would appear and then disappear after a few seconds. Maybe we could have a script tag in the head that modifies the relevant stylesheet rules based on cookies present. -- Tim Starling ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
