Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
On 02/26/2014 06:06 PM, Brian Wolff wrote: You would have to go a bit into the js side of things to do that. I'm not sure that's a good idea though. In my experience (on a wiki that used flagged revs), if the newbies see one thing, and regular users see another, what ends up happening is no one notices when the newbie oriented page is broken as the newbies don't know how to report issues (or even recognize something is an issue), which is bad because its the newbies where it is most important to make a good first impression. Replied at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview#What_can_you_see_without_scrolling Pasted here for convenience: Ok, so no different content to different users. What about the option of clipping content? Is it technically possible to offer unclipped content to anonymous users, clipped to registered users? About the clipping itself, https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Template:Collapse_top does clip content but we would need a nicer implementation. For instance, we could keep the title (now Community Collaboration) and a expand type of arrow. Anonymous users would see the full homepage with a minimize type of arrow. Or something along these lines. -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
Three technical questions about https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Are there ways to show the banner and features to new visitors while hiding them to regular visitors? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview#What_can_you_see_without_scrolling You can't define width:95% to a gallery, can't you. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview#Gallery div vs table https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview#Table_or_div Please reply in the wiki page. Thank you! -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
On 2/26/14, Quim Gil q...@wikimedia.org wrote: Are there ways to show the banner and features to new visitors while hiding them to regular visitors? https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview#What_can_you_see_without_scrolling You would have to go a bit into the js side of things to do that. I'm not sure that's a good idea though. In my experience (on a wiki that used flagged revs), if the newbies see one thing, and regular users see another, what ends up happening is no one notices when the newbie oriented page is broken as the newbies don't know how to report issues (or even recognize something is an issue), which is bad because its the newbies where it is most important to make a good first impression. --bawolff ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
Too many pictures. It does not fit my screen size anymore. I only see a part of the first image and have to scroll down for the rest; scrolling is poor design. Probably don't need to focus on Wikipedia in the as long as Wikipedia exists. It's all sister projects. Is it mobile-friendly? I made another ugly table-based design here: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview2 P.S. I don't see what the page curation has to do with it. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview/3 - no tables - usage of phrase wikimedia movement instead of wikipedia On Tue, 25 Feb 2014, at 7:54, Brena Monteiro wrote: Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. Thank you. Best regards, [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Brena Monteiro +55 27 98109 0123 @monteirobrena http://twitter.com/monteirobrena Reflexões Brenianas http://monteirobrena.wordpress.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview What requirements is this page supposed to meet? It's hard to say if it's good without knowing what it's supposed to do. Apologies if I missed a memo. DanB ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
You could following all requirements and discussion here [1]. Thank you. Best regards, [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign Brena Monteiro +55 27 98109 0123 @monteirobrena http://twitter.com/monteirobrena Reflexões Brenianas http://monteirobrena.wordpress.com On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 12:30 PM, Daniel Barrett d...@vistaprint.comwrote: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview What requirements is this page supposed to meet? It's hard to say if it's good without knowing what it's supposed to do. Apologies if I missed a memo. DanB ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
The huge image at the top, pushing all the real content below the fold, seems pretty awful to me. I also don't much care for the weird, vague feature bits at the bottom that don't even link to anything useful and distract from the links to actual useful content just below them, or the fact that in the News section useful stuff like security releases has been replaced with irrelevancies (and given such little space that it wraps the headlines after every word or two), or the lack of mention as to what the current version number is near the Get MediaWiki button. It seems to me that you probably concentrated too much on the to better promote MediaWiki as a product part and not the and as a free software project part. On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Brena Monteiro monteirobr...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. Thank you. Best regards, [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Brena Monteiro +55 27 98109 0123 @monteirobrena http://twitter.com/monteirobrena Reflexões Brenianas http://monteirobrena.wordpress.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Brad Jorsch (Anomie) Software Engineer Wikimedia Foundation ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
Le 24/02/2014 21:54, Brena Monteiro a écrit : Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. snip [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Hello Brena, Your new design has less informations which make the page easier to the eye. I love the big fat Get MediaWiki button. The pictures chosen for Documentation, Support, Development and Get Involved are perfect matches IMHO. A possible culprit is that I got the first three on the same line and the last underneath. The icons are cutes. Clicking on them trigger the full screen preview, I would expect to be sent to the relevant section. Keep up the good work, you are on the right way! -- Antoine hashar Musso ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
I'm definitely going to have to agree. The Feature bits are practically bs: - Publish: Talks about VisualEditor, HTML, and embedded media. A non-default editor practically only available on Wikipedia at the moment, completely ignores WikiText, and embedded media doesn't really even fit a description of our file upload system, much less does this describe any real publishing features that are core to MediaWiki like the history tracking of pages. - Discuss: Yeah we have talk pages for each page, but frankly that iconography feels rather deceptive to how that system really works. - Translate: ^_^ Most of this does look good, aside from our abuse of MediaWiki: pages we do have great i18n. However translation tools to crowdsource multilingual sites are not core but things like the tools that TranslateWiki uses, and are not going to be easy to find without any links. - Extend: Ok I guess the text here is fine, but for a homepage exclaiming that MediaWiki can be extended I don't see a single link to information on our extensions. - On the Go: Bullshit, Mobile Frontend is an extension not core, and not installed on most wiki, MediaWiki is not Ready for mobile devices and tablets out of the box as this deceptively suggests. - Reliable: I'm not sure about the W icon for this. But for a point on being tested and maintained as long as Wikipedia exists, what about how MW is designed to scale up to the level of traffic and reliability needed by a wiki as large as Wikipedia. But frankly I see something even worse on this page. Scanning the entire text of this homepage, aside from MediaWiki and Wikipedia, I do not see one single use of the word wiki. And worse, not a single piece of text noting that MediaWiki is open source. Forget the way it ignores the existence of the WMF outside of Wikipedia, it's like the fundamental pieces of MediaWiki, a piece of open-source wiki software, have been completely forgotten and replaced with the kind of homepage you'd see on a for-profit proprietary piece of software. ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/] On 2014-02-25 7:49 AM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) wrote: The huge image at the top, pushing all the real content below the fold, seems pretty awful to me. I also don't much care for the weird, vague feature bits at the bottom that don't even link to anything useful and distract from the links to actual useful content just below them, or the fact that in the News section useful stuff like security releases has been replaced with irrelevancies (and given such little space that it wraps the headlines after every word or two), or the lack of mention as to what the current version number is near the Get MediaWiki button. It seems to me that you probably concentrated too much on the to better promote MediaWiki as a product part and not the and as a free software project part. On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Brena Monteiro monteirobr...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. Thank you. Best regards, [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Brena Monteiro +55 27 98109 0123 @monteirobrena http://twitter.com/monteirobrena Reflexões Brenianas http://monteirobrena.wordpress.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
Thanks for taking down the thoughts, Daniel; the translation and mobile friendliness got me amused too. On Wed, 26 Feb 2014, at 9:18, Daniel Friesen wrote: I'm definitely going to have to agree. The Feature bits are practically bs: - Publish: Talks about VisualEditor, HTML, and embedded media. A non-default editor practically only available on Wikipedia at the moment, completely ignores WikiText, and embedded media doesn't really even fit a description of our file upload system, much less does this describe any real publishing features that are core to MediaWiki like the history tracking of pages. - Discuss: Yeah we have talk pages for each page, but frankly that iconography feels rather deceptive to how that system really works. - Translate: ^_^ Most of this does look good, aside from our abuse of MediaWiki: pages we do have great i18n. However translation tools to crowdsource multilingual sites are not core but things like the tools that TranslateWiki uses, and are not going to be easy to find without any links. - Extend: Ok I guess the text here is fine, but for a homepage exclaiming that MediaWiki can be extended I don't see a single link to information on our extensions. - On the Go: Bullshit, Mobile Frontend is an extension not core, and not installed on most wiki, MediaWiki is not Ready for mobile devices and tablets out of the box as this deceptively suggests. - Reliable: I'm not sure about the W icon for this. But for a point on being tested and maintained as long as Wikipedia exists, what about how MW is designed to scale up to the level of traffic and reliability needed by a wiki as large as Wikipedia. But frankly I see something even worse on this page. Scanning the entire text of this homepage, aside from MediaWiki and Wikipedia, I do not see one single use of the word wiki. And worse, not a single piece of text noting that MediaWiki is open source. Forget the way it ignores the existence of the WMF outside of Wikipedia, it's like the fundamental pieces of MediaWiki, a piece of open-source wiki software, have been completely forgotten and replaced with the kind of homepage you'd see on a for-profit proprietary piece of software. ~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://danielfriesen.name/] On 2014-02-25 7:49 AM, Brad Jorsch (Anomie) wrote: The huge image at the top, pushing all the real content below the fold, seems pretty awful to me. I also don't much care for the weird, vague feature bits at the bottom that don't even link to anything useful and distract from the links to actual useful content just below them, or the fact that in the News section useful stuff like security releases has been replaced with irrelevancies (and given such little space that it wraps the headlines after every word or two), or the lack of mention as to what the current version number is near the Get MediaWiki button. It seems to me that you probably concentrated too much on the to better promote MediaWiki as a product part and not the and as a free software project part. On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 3:54 PM, Brena Monteiro monteirobr...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. Thank you. Best regards, [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Brena Monteiro +55 27 98109 0123 @monteirobrena http://twitter.com/monteirobrena Reflexões Brenianas http://monteirobrena.wordpress.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
On 02/24/2014 12:54 PM, Brena Monteiro wrote: Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. Thank you. Thank you Brena for your work, and thank you to the rest of people that have provided feedback and help through different channels. The preview has evolved significantly in 24 hours. https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Now it can be taken as the basis of your reviews, that will be more useful if they add to what is being discussed at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Let me get some points clear here: All the texts can be challenged and improved, and also also links can be added. This is why we moved to a wiki page. Even if we have tried to convey a message, so far we have payed more attention to the design than the copy text. For instance, the mentions to freedom and open soure were lost while trying out things. Nobody doubts they should be stressed. The same goes for the images and icons, if you want to improve the current ones or propose new ones go ahead. The same goes for the HTML, CSS, and wikitext code used. We haven't tested the page in mobile. It was just a couple of hours ago when it first looked like we wanted in desktop! Please help fine tuning and improving. The top box is being discussed at https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview#Top_box , including its ideal size and whether we could have ways to show it to newcomers while saving it to regular visitors; your toughts are welcome. The current video and news featured don't matter, what matters is to decide which type of information and which sources are we going to use, see https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview#News -- and yes, that row needs still a more compact design. There has been enough feedback about the need to have more technical information / shortcuts in the homepage. We got rid of the WMF logo and we are going to try to use that space to place that information. We keep iterating, just as we have been doing since December. Brena has been listening to feedback since she got started as an OPW intern, and she has been very good at consolidating the different ideas received into the design document [1], actual mockups and, now, a wiki page. Keep your feedback coming, if possible in the Talk page. Edits and forks are welcome too. Thank you. [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Design_Document -- Quim Gil Technical Contributor Coordinator @ Wikimedia Foundation http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
[Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. Thank you. Best regards, [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Brena Monteiro +55 27 98109 0123 @monteirobrena http://twitter.com/monteirobrena Reflexões Brenianas http://monteirobrena.wordpress.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage
The picture at the top and most of the other icons need shrunk a little, and the page needs to fit more items together (it looks rather spaced out), but I do like the icon choices. It would also benefit from some more frames to separate the page sections IMO. Otherwise, looks great. :) From: monteirobr...@gmail.com Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 17:54:13 -0300 To: wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org Subject: [Wikitech-l] Preview of the proposal for MediaWiki Homepage Hello everyone, I would like to invite you to take a look the preview [1] of MediaWiki Homepage. Your opinion, contribution and help are very welcome. Thank you. Best regards, [1] https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki/Homepage_redesign/Preview Brena Monteiro +55 27 98109 0123 @monteirobrena http://twitter.com/monteirobrena Reflexões Brenianas http://monteirobrena.wordpress.com ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
