Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Jay Ashworth wrote: > - Original Message - > > From: "David Gerard" > > > > http://www.rightscale.com/blog/cloud-cost-analysis/cloud-cost-analysis-how-much-could-wikipedia-save-cloud > > How many machines do we have right now? Couple hundred? > > What's a Win2008 server license going for? > > What percentage of our budget is that, anyway? 50? > > Cheers, > -- jra > Without going in to all the ridiculousness posted by this silly blog, do note that windows azure offers Linux VM's. This article is not actually about a Windows infrastructure. > -- > Jay R. Ashworth Baylink > j...@baylink.com > Designer The Things I Think RFC > 2100 > Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land > Rover DII > St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 > 1274 > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
On 08/21/2013 01:24 PM, Tilman Bayer wrote: > "Running 450 servers for Wikipedia, 150 > staff. On AWS you could run that with 2-4 sysadmins" Obvious troll is obvious. Anyone who says something this with a straight face is either insane or has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. The one thing that always struck me the most about the Wikimedia projects is how incredible that a top-10 website could survive which such a minuscule staff. Mind you, we accumulated a technical debt by being so lean for so long, and are only now catching up thanks to the focus on shoring up engineering in the past two years. -- Marc ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Tilman Bayer wrote:
> https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370212655996235776 - he
> says that this was produced in collaboration with Wikimedian John
> Vandenberg (CC'ed), who might be able to provide more information on
> how the numbers were generated.
>
For some reason, that tweet seems to have been deleted within the last
hour, but there is some earlier discussion from that collaboration at
https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/283944238473936897 , with
other interesting comments ("Running 450 servers for Wikipedia, 150
staff. On AWS you could run that with 2-4 sysadmins")
--
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Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
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IRC (Freenode): HaeB
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
Wiadomość napisana przez Randall Farmer w dniu 21 sie 2013,
o godz. 18:02:
> Sadly they're moderating comments. I tweeted at the author, with links to
> WMF Ganglia as backup, and he definitely doesn't believe me; maybe
> something from a WMFer would help, if anyone thinks it's worth correcting:
> https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370090365354655744
>
> Going by the Ganglia pages, actual Wikipedia has at lesat >2x the *RAM*
> that their scenario has *disk*. Pretty fun. (If you're curious, Ganglia's
> front page says it's tracking 14,744 cores on 988 hosts and 40T of RAM.
> Their scenario has <20T disk. There may be additional capacity not in that
> Ganglia setup, though it seemed to cover the obvious stuff.)
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:23 AM, David Gerard wrote:
>
>> On 21 August 2013 16:12, hoo wrote:
>>
>>> Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
>>> would be rather funny)?
>>> At least they link to
>>>
>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0("[...]
>> that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have
>> any production servers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Heh. Please do post a comment of correction and post it here too, so
>> it doesn't just vanish ;-)
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
Now there is an update [0] that says: "We learned today that the data set we
used for this post might not be correct.".
No it's not like they've taken the wrong data - the data they've taken is not
correct! Shame on you data!
Michał
[0]
http://www.rightscale.com/blog/cloud-cost-analysis/cloud-cost-analysis-how-much-could-wikipedia-save-cloud-update
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
- Original Message - > From: "David Gerard" > http://www.rightscale.com/blog/cloud-cost-analysis/cloud-cost-analysis-how-much-could-wikipedia-save-cloud How many machines do we have right now? Couple hundred? What's a Win2008 server license going for? What percentage of our budget is that, anyway? 50? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274 ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
Annother recent publication that similarly used Wikipedia as an example to simulate the alleged benefits of a different hosting model: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/236942031_Symbiotic_Coupling_of_P2P_and_Cloud_Systems_The_Wikipedia_Case/file/5046351d1d1c3f051c.pdf (covered in the July Wikimedia Research Newsletter) It's by two German computer scientists who conclude that the Wikimedia Foundation "can reduce the traffic needed for article lookups in case of Wikipedia up to 72%" by having participants in a P2P network storing and serving some articles from their machines, while still also serving them from a central installation (cloud). I seem to recall that this kind of proposal for Wikipedia was quite popular in like the mid 2000s (when P2P was more in fashion and WMF had less money), to the point that Brion or Tim or someone else involved with the actual hosting wrote a rebuttal, which I can't find any more. On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 7:44 AM, David Gerard wrote: > Analysts agree! > http://www.rightscale.com/blog/cloud-cost-analysis/cloud-cost-analysis-how-much-could-wikipedia-save-cloud > >>_< > > > - d. > > ___ > Wikitech-l mailing list > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l -- Tilman Bayer Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications) Wikimedia Foundation IRC (Freenode): HaeB ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
Cloud Company posts blog about how you should move to the cloud; also,
water is wet, the sky is blue, more at 11.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Tilman Bayer wrote:
> https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370212655996235776 - he
> says that this was produced in collaboration with Wikimedian John
> Vandenberg (CC'ed), who might be able to provide more information on
> how the numbers were generated.
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Randall Farmer wrote:
> > Sadly they're moderating comments. I tweeted at the author, with links to
> > WMF Ganglia as backup, and he definitely doesn't believe me; maybe
> > something from a WMFer would help, if anyone thinks it's worth
> correcting:
> > https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370090365354655744
> >
> > Going by the Ganglia pages, actual Wikipedia has at lesat >2x the *RAM*
> > that their scenario has *disk*. Pretty fun. (If you're curious, Ganglia's
> > front page says it's tracking 14,744 cores on 988 hosts and 40T of RAM.
> > Their scenario has <20T disk. There may be additional capacity not in
> that
> > Ganglia setup, though it seemed to cover the obvious stuff.)
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:23 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> >
> >> On 21 August 2013 16:12, hoo wrote:
> >>
> >> > Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
> >> > would be rather funny)?
> >> > At least they link to
> >> >
> >>
> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0("[...]
> that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have
> >> any production servers.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Heh. Please do post a comment of correction and post it here too, so
> >> it doesn't just vanish ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >> - d.
> >>
> >> ___
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> >> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >>
> > ___
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> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
>
> --
> Tilman Bayer
> Senior Operations Analyst (Movement Communications)
> Wikimedia Foundation
> IRC (Freenode): HaeB
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370212655996235776 - he
says that this was produced in collaboration with Wikimedian John
Vandenberg (CC'ed), who might be able to provide more information on
how the numbers were generated.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 9:02 AM, Randall Farmer wrote:
> Sadly they're moderating comments. I tweeted at the author, with links to
> WMF Ganglia as backup, and he definitely doesn't believe me; maybe
> something from a WMFer would help, if anyone thinks it's worth correcting:
> https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370090365354655744
>
> Going by the Ganglia pages, actual Wikipedia has at lesat >2x the *RAM*
> that their scenario has *disk*. Pretty fun. (If you're curious, Ganglia's
> front page says it's tracking 14,744 cores on 988 hosts and 40T of RAM.
> Their scenario has <20T disk. There may be additional capacity not in that
> Ganglia setup, though it seemed to cover the obvious stuff.)
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:23 AM, David Gerard wrote:
>
>> On 21 August 2013 16:12, hoo wrote:
>>
>> > Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
>> > would be rather funny)?
>> > At least they link to
>> >
>> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0("[...]
>> that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have
>> any production servers.
>>
>>
>>
>> Heh. Please do post a comment of correction and post it here too, so
>> it doesn't just vanish ;-)
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> ___
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
> ___
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
Threw my title around, see if that helps. :)
> Sadly they're moderating comments. I tweeted at the author, with links to
> WMF Ganglia as backup, and he definitely doesn't believe me; maybe
> something from a WMFer would help, if anyone thinks it's worth correcting:
> https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370090365354655744
>
> Going by the Ganglia pages, actual Wikipedia has at lesat >2x the *RAM*
> that their scenario has *disk*. Pretty fun. (If you're curious, Ganglia's
> front page says it's tracking 14,744 cores on 988 hosts and 40T of RAM.
> Their scenario has <20T disk. There may be additional capacity not in that
> Ganglia setup, though it seemed to cover the obvious stuff.)
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:23 AM, David Gerard wrote:
>
> > On 21 August 2013 16:12, hoo wrote:
> >
> > > Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
> > > would be rather funny)?
> > > At least they link to
> > >
> > https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0("[...]
> > that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have
> > any production servers.
> >
> >
> >
> > Heh. Please do post a comment of correction and post it here too, so
> > it doesn't just vanish ;-)
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> > ___
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> ___
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
Sadly they're moderating comments. I tweeted at the author, with links to
WMF Ganglia as backup, and he definitely doesn't believe me; maybe
something from a WMFer would help, if anyone thinks it's worth correcting:
https://twitter.com/hassankhosseini/status/370090365354655744
Going by the Ganglia pages, actual Wikipedia has at lesat >2x the *RAM*
that their scenario has *disk*. Pretty fun. (If you're curious, Ganglia's
front page says it's tracking 14,744 cores on 988 hosts and 40T of RAM.
Their scenario has <20T disk. There may be additional capacity not in that
Ganglia setup, though it seemed to cover the obvious stuff.)
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 8:23 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> On 21 August 2013 16:12, hoo wrote:
>
> > Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
> > would be rather funny)?
> > At least they link to
> >
> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0("[...]
> that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have
> any production servers.
>
>
>
> Heh. Please do post a comment of correction and post it here too, so
> it doesn't just vanish ;-)
>
>
> - d.
>
> ___
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
On 21 August 2013 16:12, hoo wrote:
> Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
> would be rather funny)?
> At least they link to
> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0
> ("[...] that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have any
> production servers.
Heh. Please do post a comment of correction and post it here too, so
it doesn't just vanish ;-)
- d.
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
This very article seems like yet another "Hey check out my brand new
Wikipedia redesign!" story. No, you're not wrong. They took the170/385
numbers from the Labs stats.
On Wed, Aug 21, 2013 at 6:12 PM, hoo wrote:
> Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
> would be rather funny)?
> At least they link to
> https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0
> ("[...] that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have any
> production servers.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marius
>
> On Wed, 2013-08-21 at 15:44 +0100, David Gerard wrote:
>> Analysts agree!
>> http://www.rightscale.com/blog/cloud-cost-analysis/cloud-cost-analysis-how-much-could-wikipedia-save-cloud
>>
>> >_<
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> ___
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>
>
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З павагай,
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Wizardist @ Wikimedia projects
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Re: [Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
Am I wrong or did they actually calculate that for labs only (which
would be rather funny)?
At least they link to
https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Ask/-5B-5BResource-20Type::instance-5D-5D/-3FInstance-20Name/-3FInstance-20Type/-3FProject/-3FImage-20Id/-3FFQDN/-3FLaunch-20Time/-3FPuppet-20Class/-3FModification-20date/-3FInstance-20Host/-3FNumber-20of-20CPUs/-3FRAM-20Size/-3FAmount-20of-20Storage/searchlabel%3Dinstances/offset%3D0
("[...] that run on up to 385 instances [...]") which AFAIK doesn't have any
production servers.
Cheers,
Marius
On Wed, 2013-08-21 at 15:44 +0100, David Gerard wrote:
> Analysts agree!
> http://www.rightscale.com/blog/cloud-cost-analysis/cloud-cost-analysis-how-much-could-wikipedia-save-cloud
>
> >_<
>
>
> - d.
>
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[Wikitech-l] You know, we really should shift to Windows
Analysts agree! http://www.rightscale.com/blog/cloud-cost-analysis/cloud-cost-analysis-how-much-could-wikipedia-save-cloud >_< - d. ___ Wikitech-l mailing list Wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
