Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
I see in the WISPA Code of Ethics this line: e) Use proper diligence to ensure that all materials on their networks are restricted in accordance with applicable laws, regulations and the tenets of reasonable precaution. If this needs to be worded differently then maybe this would suffice? I do not know how many times we can state specifically that WISPA does not support breaking laws and that while we do wish to see some changes to some laws we support following the laws. I am getting a bit tired of being told by many here that we support breaking the laws when we DO NOT. Part of the WISPA Code of Ethics states: ARTICLE II We will conduct ourselves in such a manner as to bring credit to our industry and enhance its reputation. With so many people coming on here saying over and over that WISPA is trying to support breaking the laws we are not following this code. We are doing damage to our industry when we state these things and it is not helping the effort. If our Code of Ethics needs some work then say so but stop calling us criminals on a public list server. I am tiring of it and I am sure I am not alone. John Scrivner Zack Kneisley wrote: Ralph As only a list member, wireless operator and entrepreneur, I support and encorage your request. WISPA, should publicly support issues, especially those that are law. This specific position should not be something that requires debate. I hope this request will open a dialog of democratic, representative, self-governing action of WISPA in general. WISPA taking a public position would make paid membership more attractive to myself, and many others I associate with. Zack Kneisley On 9/1/07, Ralph [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I appreciate what several WISPA folks are doing to try to get more latitude in equipment/antenna matching, and as a full Principal WISPA member, I would like to ask the WISPA board to publish a position paper on legal operation and guidelines for WISPs to use in order to meet the current rules. It needs to be done now. Actually showing we are paying more than lip service to the current regulations and officially Supporting legal operation may go a long way towards building better credibility with the FCC AS well as with the rest of the wireless industry. Is WISPA up to the challege of setting the precedent. Ralph Brightlan.net North Georgia Broadband Without The Wires ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? What business is it of others what anyone else does? If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had none in the past. Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me his antennas were being certified with new manufacturers that proviously were uncertified. WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can end up with is some type of rivalry at best. I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those opinions expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to some of our wisps is unacceptable. Lets look for the common good of all wisps. George ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
Responses inline... Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? Because you are our industry organization What business is it of others what anyone else does? Anyone who wants to see the industry operate in a proper and legal manner. If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. Good idea- let's ask them. I will draft my request this week. WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had none in the past. Bravo to them! Who are they? Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me his antennas were being certified with new manufacturers that proviously were uncertified. Ditto WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can end up with is some type of rivalry at best. ??? Confused. Who do we want to see succeed? All WISPS, you say. Including the ones who operate illegaly? The legal ones? The ones we don't see because we look the other way? I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those opinions expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to some of our wisps is unacceptable. Uhm.. Who's it destructive to? Oh- that's right... The ones who operate illegally. I simply asked WISPA to publish a position on illegal operation. That doesn't mean to push it off on some code of ethics. This is our organization that is supposed to further our business. I'd hate to think we were afraid to stand up for what is right. There's no sort-of pregnant, and there's no sort-of Part 15 compliant. You are or you aren't That is why this isn't debatable AT ALL! Who here is operating illegally? There's one message already posted from an operator who was bragging that he was. Who is operating legally? Who will add their company to this list? Legal Illegal --- x Brightlan ? ? The rest of you Ralph Fowler Brightlan LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 3:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? What business is it of others what anyone else does? If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had none in the past. Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me his antennas were being certified with new manufacturers that proviously were uncertified. WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can end up with is some type of rivalry at best. I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those opinions expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to some of our wisps is unacceptable. Lets look for the common good of all wisps. George ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
Please expand upon this statement... I simply asked WISPA to publish a position on illegal operation. That doesn't mean to push it off on some code of ethics. What kind of written statement would carry more weight than the code of ethics? Please describe how any such written statement would in fact carry more weight. John Ralph wrote: Responses inline... Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? Because you are our industry organization What business is it of others what anyone else does? Anyone who wants to see the industry operate in a proper and legal manner. If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. Good idea- let's ask them. I will draft my request this week. WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had none in the past. Bravo to them! Who are they? Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me his antennas were being certified with new manufacturers that proviously were uncertified. Ditto WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can end up with is some type of rivalry at best. ??? Confused. Who do we want to see succeed? All WISPS, you say. Including the ones who operate illegaly? The legal ones? The ones we don't see because we look the other way? I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those opinions expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to some of our wisps is unacceptable. Uhm.. Who's it destructive to? Oh- that's right... The ones who operate illegally. I simply asked WISPA to publish a position on illegal operation. That doesn't mean to push it off on some code of ethics. This is our organization that is supposed to further our business. I'd hate to think we were afraid to stand up for what is right. There's no sort-of pregnant, and there's no sort-of Part 15 compliant. You are or you aren't That is why this isn't debatable AT ALL! Who here is operating illegally? There's one message already posted from an operator who was bragging that he was. Who is operating legally? Who will add their company to this list? Legal Illegal --- x Brightlan ? ? The rest of you Ralph Fowler Brightlan LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 3:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? What business is it of others what anyone else does? If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had none in the past. Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me his antennas were being certified with new manufacturers that proviously were uncertified. WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can end up with is some type of rivalry at best. I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those opinions expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to some of our wisps is unacceptable. Lets look for the common good of all wisps. George ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
Ralph You see the industry through a very narrow set of blinders. There is a whole lot more players than you or I. I'm not impressed with any YDI certified system that you think you may have, I too have certified YDI systems still in place and YDI sold me and lots of others quite a bit of stuff that was maybe certifiable at best. I recall one wisp who had a supposed YDI certified system who found out otherwise. I'm also not impressed with any radio system who certifies themselves. It's none of your business who the new certified systems are because it's trade secrets that have been entrusted with some. I'm not going to spoil anyones financial investment into new products by pre-announcing anything, but it should be no surprise when it is announced. If you want to know, dig around yourself. One thing you have been successful at is ending most discussions of what people are using, their accomplishments or plain old advice on this list. I bet a lot of guys are scared with your FCC insinuations not to bother posting anything to this list. That is the destructiveness of your actions, and others. WISPA is NOT an association for a few wisps, its for ALL wisps, that means any wisp, those certified and those not. If you want an association for those 100% certified, start your own trade org. And if the FCC was serious about killing the non certified stuff, they would have gone after a couple of manufacturers who's names are on everyones tongues and do business as US companies right here in the USA for many years. Seeing they aren't shutting down the wireless companies making and selling this stuff, I can only assume they ain't as worried as you make it out to be. They are probably delighted that those who take innovation, mold it together with ingenuity, and start serving the under served are doing a good job. Doing just what the feds want, getting broadband to the under served, which usually means the poor communities that are left out because of lack of funding. You should consider though, that what goes on in someone else's back yard just is NOT any of YOUR beeswax. Ralph wrote: Responses inline... Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? Because you are our industry organization What business is it of others what anyone else does? Anyone who wants to see the industry operate in a proper and legal manner. If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. Good idea- let's ask them. I will draft my request this week. WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had none in the past. Bravo to them! Who are they? Just this past week I was talking to an antenna manufacturer who told me his antennas were being certified with new manufacturers that proviously were uncertified. Ditto WISPA's goal is to see all wisps succeed. This division a couple of you are creating, is fairly destructive to any co-operative effort. When the lines get drawn and people placed on one side or the other, all we can end up with is some type of rivalry at best. ??? Confused. Who do we want to see succeed? All WISPS, you say. Including the ones who operate illegaly? The legal ones? The ones we don't see because we look the other way? I can understand and agree with the entire certification issue and those opinions expressed, but doing so in a manner that is destructive to some of our wisps is unacceptable. Uhm.. Who's it destructive to? Oh- that's right... The ones who operate illegally. I simply asked WISPA to publish a position on illegal operation. That doesn't mean to push it off on some code of ethics. This is our organization that is supposed to further our business. I'd hate to think we were afraid to stand up for what is right. There's no sort-of pregnant, and there's no sort-of Part 15 compliant. You are or you aren't That is why this isn't debatable AT ALL! Who here is operating illegally? There's one message already posted from an operator who was bragging that he was. Who is operating legally? Who will add their company to this list? Legal Illegal --- x Brightlan ? ? The rest of you Ralph Fowler Brightlan LLC -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 3:18 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? What business is it of others what anyone else does? If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. WISPA's efforts towards compliance may be slow, but there is now certified componentized systems in the pipeline from vendors who had none in the past. Just this past week I
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
George Rogato wrote: One thing you have been successful at is ending most discussions of what people are using, their accomplishments or plain old advice on this list. I bet a lot of guys are scared with your FCC insinuations not to bother posting anything to this list. I don't think you can really pin that on Ralph. What seems to be happening is that people who are stubborn with their opinions are coming up against people who disagree and can't probably debate the issue. When people can't debate properly and they disagree with someone else fallacies are often resorted to e.g. the every popular personal attack (ad hominem). That is the destructiveness of your actions, and others. I do think we are witnessing destructiveness, but I don't think it is coming from the likes of Ralph and others that are taking well reasoned positions. Regardless, of whether we agree with these positions doesn't mean they don't have merit. We should be having professional discussions where parties can state their differences and the rest of us can learn from them. We aren't seeing that. We are seeing a level of unprofessionalism that is turning people off and away. That is the destructiveness that should concern you. WISPA is NOT an association for a few wisps, its for ALL wisps, that means any wisp, those certified and those not. Logically that does not make sense. I don't see how you can knowingly operate illegally and still be in line with the code of ethics. I don't believe WISPA stands for WISPs that don't meet the code of ethics. You should consider though, that what goes on in someone else's back yard just is NOT any of YOUR beeswax. If that were only true. The reality though is that many of us have had to overcome issues of perception created by others who don't operate legitimately. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
Matt Seeing you and Ralph are business constituants and shoulder to shoulder, I wouldn't expect you to stray from the party line Matt Liotta wrote: George Rogato wrote: One thing you have been successful at is ending most discussions of what people are using, their accomplishments or plain old advice on this list. I bet a lot of guys are scared with your FCC insinuations not to bother posting anything to this list. I don't think you can really pin that on Ralph. What seems to be happening is that people who are stubborn with their opinions are coming up against people who disagree and can't probably debate the issue. When people can't debate properly and they disagree with someone else fallacies are often resorted to e.g. the every popular personal attack (ad hominem). That is the destructiveness of your actions, and others. I do think we are witnessing destructiveness, but I don't think it is coming from the likes of Ralph and others that are taking well reasoned positions. Regardless, of whether we agree with these positions doesn't mean they don't have merit. We should be having professional discussions where parties can state their differences and the rest of us can learn from them. We aren't seeing that. We are seeing a level of unprofessionalism that is turning people off and away. That is the destructiveness that should concern you. WISPA is NOT an association for a few wisps, its for ALL wisps, that means any wisp, those certified and those not. Logically that does not make sense. I don't see how you can knowingly operate illegally and still be in line with the code of ethics. I don't believe WISPA stands for WISPs that don't meet the code of ethics. You should consider though, that what goes on in someone else's back yard just is NOT any of YOUR beeswax. If that were only true. The reality though is that many of us have had to overcome issues of perception created by others who don't operate legitimately. -Matt ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
I gather that this is a response of the ad hominem variety Matt just predicted, but could you clarify your meaning? Aren't we all businesses (and constituents, business and otherwise)? On 9/2/07, George Rogato [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Matt Seeing you and Ralph are business constituants and shoulder to shoulder, I wouldn't expect you to stray from the party line -- Dylan Oliver Primaverity, LLC ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
I am not sure that a position paper is required, but I will offer a few opinions based on some of what I have seen this post generate in responses. Though I am not currently 100% compliant with the FCC rules nor a member, I wish I were both. Even after 1 full year of research into what I would need to do to start a WISP, I did not realize that all the equipment must be certified. To be honest, to some degree I figured if were sold in the USA, it was OK to use it. I do follow the maximum signal levels, stay on the right channels, etc. To the best of my knowledge the only thing I am in violation of is the certified equipment requirement. Even with my current situation, I would not support an organization that did anything other than require members to be operating legally. So, at this time it is a good thing I am not a member of WISPA, because when I join, I want to comply with all of the bylaws, etc. So I am 100% behind Ralph wanting to be assured that WISPA is all about being legal. I also agree with Ralph's opening comment about getting more latitude in equipment matching. This is what I would expect a professional organization to do; encourage all members to follow the rules AND work with the governing bodies to change those rules that are a hindrance to the growth of individual WISPs and to the industry as a whole. I think John Scrivner found the answer in the 2 sections of the by-laws he quoted. WISPA is about the business of promote the growth of all players in the industry. My take on the direction the WISPA board generally takes is just what I stated above: an effort to help those of us that are not yet fully legal get there, both by educating us to the laws and rules and how to abide them as well as working to change those rules that can be changed in our favor without negatively impacting other industries that use the same airwaves. As for the original post creating division, I do not see it that way. Maybe I would if all I cared about was making $$ regardless of what the rules are. It seems to me that the only way this would cause me to feel cut-off from WISPA is if I were operating illegally and wanted to be able to continue to do so without someone calling me to move in the right direction. With Ralph's post, I actually feel more drawn to WISPA, because here is a group that is all about helping me to be successful within the constraints of the laws and rules of the land. So, to the WISPA Board, please keep up the good work and continue to show us how to operate our WISPs legally and successfully. Ralph wrote: I appreciate what several WISPA folks are doing to try to get more latitude in equipment/antenna matching, and as a full Principal WISPA member, I would like to ask the WISPA board to publish a position paper on legal operation and guidelines for WISPs to use in order to meet the current rules. It needs to be done now. Actually showing we are paying more than lip service to the current regulations and officially Supporting legal operation may go a long way towards building better credibility with the FCC AS well as with the rest of the wireless industry. Is WISPA up to the challege of setting the precedent. Ralph Brightlan.net North Georgia Broadband Without The Wires ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- Scott Reed Owner NewWays Wireless Networking Network Design, Installation and Administration www.nwwnet.net ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
Please expand upon this statement... Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through a ethics statement, does not conclude that WISPA as a professional organization supports the use of only certified systems. I do not see how this statement makes any sense. The logic loses me about the does not conclude part. John Ok, I'll be happy to. I'm sorry if the logic in my statement is confusing. - 1.Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through ethics statement, ***You have stated that WISPA, through its code of ethics, somehow assumes the stance that it does not condone the use of non-ceritified systems.. correct? 2.does not conclude that WISPA as a professional organization supports the use of only certified systems. ***This does not mean that WISPA take the same position. - I appoligize if I confused you. Is this the official opinion of WISPA? are you making this statement on behalf of WISPA? I don't think you are. Is it WISPA's official public position that non-certified systems are not condoned because you have a code of ethics? Are you representing WISPA with your statement? John, this is not your statement to make.. Honestly, your opinion doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is WISPA's public opinion, not yours. Zack ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
RE: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
George- I already listed the vendors our WISP uses, and I have never mentioned anything from YDI. I haven't a clue where you got that idea. I have never purchased a single thing from them. Again for the record: Our WISP uses Tranzeo, Canopy, Deliberant and Ligowave. All certified APs and client usits and all certified antennas. I simply said that my Orinoco card based access points were rocking along fine and that they were certified. They have internal antennas and are the ones that were on them when they were originally certified and when they were purchased. I also said I would be glad to provide the FCC type acceptance number as soon as I could get to them and read it off the bottom. As far as the obvious fact that you and others think that there are any certified Orinoco based access points, take a look inside many of the Apple Airports and you will realize that you have been wrong. I believe I have mentioned before that Matt is my upstream, just as he is for many others. What does that have to do with it? We are business acquaintances who may see each other once or twice a year and we certainly don't see eye to eye on everything, so don't believe for a second that he parrots me or I parrot him, although I am glad to see him in favor of legal operation. No one can certify themselves. They can stick the sticker on, but they have to earn the right to do that. If there are any vendors planning certified systems then its their loss if they choose to not announce it because we consumers will continue our decision making with or without them. I don't know if the FCC cares who sells uncertified equipment. The one whose neck is ultimately on the line is the one who places it into operation. I pretty much would bet money that they are not delighted that WISPS are illegally operating uncertified systems, no matter how creative. The rules are there and any ou uus can download and read them. Then we can decide to be legal or illegal. It isn't a debating point. WISPA needs to step to the table and walk the walk instead of talk the talk. The way to do it is to take a position. We are either 100% in favor of legal operation or we are against it. What are we? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of George Rogato Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 5:15 PM To: WISPA General List Subject: Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation Ralph You see the industry through a very narrow set of blinders. There is a whole lot more players than you or I. I'm not impressed with any YDI certified system that you think you may have, I too have certified YDI systems still in place and YDI sold me and lots of others quite a bit of stuff that was maybe certifiable at best. I recall one wisp who had a supposed YDI certified system who found out otherwise. I'm also not impressed with any radio system who certifies themselves. It's none of your business who the new certified systems are because it's trade secrets that have been entrusted with some. I'm not going to spoil anyones financial investment into new products by pre-announcing anything, but it should be no surprise when it is announced. If you want to know, dig around yourself. One thing you have been successful at is ending most discussions of what people are using, their accomplishments or plain old advice on this list. I bet a lot of guys are scared with your FCC insinuations not to bother posting anything to this list. That is the destructiveness of your actions, and others. WISPA is NOT an association for a few wisps, its for ALL wisps, that means any wisp, those certified and those not. If you want an association for those 100% certified, start your own trade org. And if the FCC was serious about killing the non certified stuff, they would have gone after a couple of manufacturers who's names are on everyones tongues and do business as US companies right here in the USA for many years. Seeing they aren't shutting down the wireless companies making and selling this stuff, I can only assume they ain't as worried as you make it out to be. They are probably delighted that those who take innovation, mold it together with ingenuity, and start serving the under served are doing a good job. Doing just what the feds want, getting broadband to the under served, which usually means the poor communities that are left out because of lack of funding. You should consider though, that what goes on in someone else's back yard just is NOT any of YOUR beeswax. Ralph wrote: Responses inline... Why should WISPA take any stance on what a wisp uses to conduct business? Because you are our industry organization What business is it of others what anyone else does? Anyone who wants to see the industry operate in a proper and legal manner. If the FCC thought what was going on was a terrible thing, they would have said so. Good idea- let's ask them. I will draft my
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
On Sun, 2 Sep 2007, Scott Reed wrote: So I am 100% behind Ralph wanting to be assured that WISPA is all about being legal. WISPA put this in the Code of Ethics. The organization is certainly all about being legal. I also agree with Ralph's opening comment about getting more latitude in equipment matching. This was a very minor part of his statement. Taken all together, his statement says (or so it seems to me) just the opposite. He stated in this, or some other email, that efforts to this end were a waste of time (my interpretation, not his words). This is what I would expect a professional organization to do; encourage all members to follow the rules AND work with the governing bodies to change those rules that are a hindrance to the growth of individual WISPs and to the industry as a whole. This is PRECISELY what WISPA is doing. As for the original post creating division, I do not see it that How could you NOT see it that way? The original post was a reply to something that had NOTHING to do with certification. It was a vicious attack that was completely uncalled for and completely out of line. Read back to the original question and Ralph's response. Then, read the entire thread to see if the original question was ever answered. Ralph hijacked the thread. -- Butch Evans Network Engineering and Security Consulting 573-276-2879 http://www.butchevans.com/ My calendar: http://tinyurl.com/y24ad6 Training Partners: http://tinyurl.com/smfkf Mikrotik Certified Consultant http://www.mikrotik.com/consultants.html ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
[WISPA] Leaving the list
I have tried to share what I believe are good paths to proceed for WISPs and WISPA and mostly all I get back are rude comments and smug lashes at my character here. I have too many things going to be bothered with all the divisive rhetoric and sniping attitudes from many on this list server. I am leaving the list for a while. Someone can let me know when people settle down and decide they want to focus on unification instead of dividing the group. Good bye for now... Scriv begin:vcard fn:John Scrivner n:Scrivner;John org:Mt. Vernon. Net, Inc. adr;dom:PO Box 1582;;1 Dr Park Road Suite H1;Mt. Vernon;Il;62864 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:President tel;work:618-244-6868 url:http://www.mvn.net/ version:2.1 end:vcard ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
Re: [WISPA] In support of legal operation
It doesn't really help, when attempting to clarify a misunderstood or confusing statement, to say the same thing over again. You asserted, in your posting, that the position of WISPA as stated in the code of ethics, did not meet the requirement in your opinion of being the official stance of WISPA. You are the one who should clarify just exactly how the official written statement contained in the code of ethics falls short of meeting the bar. If the code of ethics statement cannot be taken to be the official postion of WISPA,... 1. why not?, 2. what would you propose that would be adequate in your view? John Zack Kneisley wrote: Please expand upon this statement... Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through a ethics statement, does not conclude that WISPA as a professional organization supports the use of only certified systems. I do not see how this statement makes any sense. The logic loses me about the does not conclude part. John Ok, I'll be happy to. I'm sorry if the logic in my statement is confusing. - 1.Because you agree that WISPA supports only certified systems through ethics statement, ***You have stated that WISPA, through its code of ethics, somehow assumes the stance that it does not condone the use of non-ceritified systems.. correct? 2.does not conclude that WISPA as a professional organization supports the use of only certified systems. ***This does not mean that WISPA take the same position. - I appoligize if I confused you. Is this the official opinion of WISPA? are you making this statement on behalf of WISPA? I don't think you are. Is it WISPA's official public position that non-certified systems are not condoned because you have a code of ethics? Are you representing WISPA with your statement? John, this is not your statement to make.. Honestly, your opinion doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is WISPA's public opinion, not yours. Zack ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ -- John Vogel - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.vogent.net 620-754-3907 Vogel Enterprises, LLC Information Services Provider serving S.E. Kansas ** Join us at the WISPA Reception at 6:30 PM on October the 16th 2007 at ISPCON ** ** ISPCON Fall 2007 - October 16-18 - San Jose, CA www.ispcon.com ** ** THE INTERNET INDUSTRY EVENT ** ** FREE Exhibits and Events Pass available until August 31 ** ** Use Customer Code WSEMF7 when you register online at http://www.ispcon.com/register.php ** WISPA Wants You! Join today! http://signup.wispa.org/ WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
